Talk:Marshmallow's Last Stand - Revision history

Bleu Ninja: /**/November 1999 production - source for this?

2024-04-08T07:04:30Z

: November 1999 production - source for this?

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:04, 8 April 2024
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	I thought I remembered doing lots of research to back up this postulation 7 years ago, scouring interviews to find a quote from the Brothers Chaps confirming that this was indeed the first cartoon they ever made... But somehow, it seems I overlooked the toon's intro disclaimer. There it is, stated with no ambiguity: "the first cartoon we ever made". Given all the counterevidence I brought up, I still hesitate to take that statement at face value (perhaps it's a sort of [[Pom Pom, Too]] situation where they don't consider [[The King of Town DVD Old Version]] a full cartoon?)... But since that's just unfounded speculation, it seems we can pretty officially consider Marshmallow's Last Stand to be the first full toon they made (albeit not necessarily the first released on the site). (Also, in response to {{p\|l=http://hrwiki.org/w/index.php?title=The_Poopsmith&curid=1033&diff=831350&oldid=831347 this edit summary}}, I'm really not sure how "first cartoon that we ever put on the Homestar website" could be interpreted to include that extra qualifier.) {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig}} 07:18, 23 December 2023 (UTC)		I thought I remembered doing lots of research to back up this postulation 7 years ago, scouring interviews to find a quote from the Brothers Chaps confirming that this was indeed the first cartoon they ever made... But somehow, it seems I overlooked the toon's intro disclaimer. There it is, stated with no ambiguity: "the first cartoon we ever made". Given all the counterevidence I brought up, I still hesitate to take that statement at face value (perhaps it's a sort of [[Pom Pom, Too]] situation where they don't consider [[The King of Town DVD Old Version]] a full cartoon?)... But since that's just unfounded speculation, it seems we can pretty officially consider Marshmallow's Last Stand to be the first full toon they made (albeit not necessarily the first released on the site). (Also, in response to {{p\|l=http://hrwiki.org/w/index.php?title=The_Poopsmith&curid=1033&diff=831350&oldid=831347 this edit summary}}, I'm really not sure how "first cartoon that we ever put on the Homestar website" could be interpreted to include that extra qualifier.) {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig}} 07:18, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
	:I agree there is a little wiggle room. [[Old Flash Stuff]] calls MLS the "first '''full''' cartoon"; TKOT is less than 90 seconds long, and much of it is unvoiced (no narrator, and several lines of dialogue like "And I'm afraid a dragon has gobbled them up!" are not spoken), which could easily lead it to be considered more short than "full". In the [[l33t Interview]] (summer 2001), Mike qualifies MLS as "the first cartoon we did '''for the site'''", which again adds some ambiguity since several pieces of H*R were made before the site was registered.<br/>In MLS they clearly have an idea of who the Poopsmith is (whatsit gloves and pun on sign), he's not just a random character design they later developed into a poop-shoveler, so I think it's safe to assume TKOT was at least in-progress at the same time as MLS. Even if the more amateurish feeling of TKOT makes me willing to believe it could've been made earlier, you're right that we should defer to [[TVTropes:Main/WordOfGod\|Word of God]] on this one with MLS being "the first". --{{User:Bleu Ninja/sig}} 19:02, 23 December 2023 (UTC)		:I agree there is a little wiggle room. [[Old Flash Stuff]] calls MLS the "first '''full''' cartoon"; TKOT is less than 90 seconds long, and much of it is unvoiced (no narrator, and several lines of dialogue like "And I'm afraid a dragon has gobbled them up!" are not spoken), which could easily lead it to be considered more short than "full". In the [[l33t Interview]] (summer 2001), Mike qualifies MLS as "the first cartoon we did '''for the site'''", which again adds some ambiguity since several pieces of H*R were made before the site was registered.<br/>In MLS they clearly have an idea of who the Poopsmith is (whatsit gloves and pun on sign), he's not just a random character design they later developed into a poop-shoveler, so I think it's safe to assume TKOT was at least in-progress at the same time as MLS. Even if the more amateurish feeling of TKOT makes me willing to believe it could've been made earlier, you're right that we should defer to [[TVTropes:Main/WordOfGod\|Word of God]] on this one with MLS being "the first". --{{User:Bleu Ninja/sig}} 19:02, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
		+
		+	== November 1999 production - source for this? ==
		+
		+	Both this page and [[H*R.com updates 2000]] refer to the production of this toon taking place in November 1999. Not only is this irregular to note on the wiki, but they don't quite agree with what happened in November:
		+	* {{p\|l=http://hrwiki.org/w/index.php?title=H*R.com_updates_2000&diff=prev&oldid=751986 In 2015, an anonymous user added to the Updates page}} that MLS ''began'' production in November.
		+	* {{p\|l=http://hrwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Marshmallow%27s_Last_Stand&diff=prev&oldid=765482 In 2017, a user updated this page to add}} that MLS ''finished'' production in November.
		+
		+	I am not aware of anything to back this up. I've looked through [[Interviews and Public Appearances\|our catalogued interviews from 2001-03]] and even did a Google search for various combinations of "homestar runner"/"marshmallow's last stand"/"november 1999". It's not mentioned on the DVD commentary or on the DVD itself. The closest clue I've been able to find is "The Evolution of Homestar" [[Wallpaper]], which features one Homestar labeled 11/99. Although the design is very similar, this Homestar notably has a hat which Homestar doesn't wear in MLS {{--}} making it a closer match for [[Old Intro]].
		+
		+	Either way... we don't note production times in the lede's '''Date:''' field or on "HR.com updates 20XX" pages. The only exception I can think of is the [[sbemail 206]] teaser on [[HR.com updates 2012]], but there were some real extenuating circumstances there. I'd like to see a more concrete source and/or justification for including this vague "production" date in these two articles, or I'll probably cut it from both. --{{User:Bleu Ninja/sig}} 07:04, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

Bleu Ninja: /* The First Toon? */ response, since I dug it up

2023-12-23T19:02:55Z

The First Toon?: response, since I dug it up

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:02, 23 December 2023
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	:::It's a good bet, but without confirmation, it's all speculation. However, as there is no proof one way or the other, I changed the wording to indicate that it was the first one released, rather than the first one made. {{User:DeFender1031/sig}} 23:38, 11 November 2017 (UTC)		:::It's a good bet, but without confirmation, it's all speculation. However, as there is no proof one way or the other, I changed the wording to indicate that it was the first one released, rather than the first one made. {{User:DeFender1031/sig}} 23:38, 11 November 2017 (UTC)
	I thought I remembered doing lots of research to back up this postulation 7 years ago, scouring interviews to find a quote from the Brothers Chaps confirming that this was indeed the first cartoon they ever made... But somehow, it seems I overlooked the toon's intro disclaimer. There it is, stated with no ambiguity: "the first cartoon we ever made". Given all the counterevidence I brought up, I still hesitate to take that statement at face value (perhaps it's a sort of [[Pom Pom, Too]] situation where they don't consider [[The King of Town DVD Old Version]] a full cartoon?)... But since that's just unfounded speculation, it seems we can pretty officially consider Marshmallow's Last Stand to be the first full toon they made (albeit not necessarily the first released on the site). (Also, in response to {{p\|l=http://hrwiki.org/w/index.php?title=The_Poopsmith&curid=1033&diff=831350&oldid=831347 this edit summary}}, I'm really not sure how "first cartoon that we ever put on the Homestar website" could be interpreted to include that extra qualifier.) {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig}} 07:18, 23 December 2023 (UTC)		I thought I remembered doing lots of research to back up this postulation 7 years ago, scouring interviews to find a quote from the Brothers Chaps confirming that this was indeed the first cartoon they ever made... But somehow, it seems I overlooked the toon's intro disclaimer. There it is, stated with no ambiguity: "the first cartoon we ever made". Given all the counterevidence I brought up, I still hesitate to take that statement at face value (perhaps it's a sort of [[Pom Pom, Too]] situation where they don't consider [[The King of Town DVD Old Version]] a full cartoon?)... But since that's just unfounded speculation, it seems we can pretty officially consider Marshmallow's Last Stand to be the first full toon they made (albeit not necessarily the first released on the site). (Also, in response to {{p\|l=http://hrwiki.org/w/index.php?title=The_Poopsmith&curid=1033&diff=831350&oldid=831347 this edit summary}}, I'm really not sure how "first cartoon that we ever put on the Homestar website" could be interpreted to include that extra qualifier.) {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig}} 07:18, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
		+	:I agree there is a little wiggle room. [[Old Flash Stuff]] calls MLS the "first '''full''' cartoon"; TKOT is less than 90 seconds long, and much of it is unvoiced (no narrator, and several lines of dialogue like "And I'm afraid a dragon has gobbled them up!" are not spoken), which could easily lead it to be considered more short than "full". In the [[l33t Interview]] (summer 2001), Mike qualifies MLS as "the first cartoon we did '''for the site'''", which again adds some ambiguity since several pieces of H*R were made before the site was registered.<br/>In MLS they clearly have an idea of who the Poopsmith is (whatsit gloves and pun on sign), he's not just a random character design they later developed into a poop-shoveler, so I think it's safe to assume TKOT was at least in-progress at the same time as MLS. Even if the more amateurish feeling of TKOT makes me willing to believe it could've been made earlier, you're right that we should defer to [[TVTropes:Main/WordOfGod\|Word of God]] on this one with MLS being "the first". --{{User:Bleu Ninja/sig}} 19:02, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

Gfdgsgxgzgdrc: /* The First Toon? */ addendum to my 7-year-old conjecture

2023-12-23T07:18:18Z

The First Toon?: addendum to my 7-year-old conjecture

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:18, 23 December 2023
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	::But the Poopsmith wasn't seen in the museum sketchbook. They said they added him into the King of Town DVD as a joke, so it seems unlikely that he came from anywhere else. And they said they had him appear in other cartoons "here and there", which can refer to this crowd. And they've even said that the King of Town DVD was the first toon on the site, and it has a much cruder animation and writing style. {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig‎}} 22:14, 11 November 2017 (UTC)		::But the Poopsmith wasn't seen in the museum sketchbook. They said they added him into the King of Town DVD as a joke, so it seems unlikely that he came from anywhere else. And they said they had him appear in other cartoons "here and there", which can refer to this crowd. And they've even said that the King of Town DVD was the first toon on the site, and it has a much cruder animation and writing style. {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig‎}} 22:14, 11 November 2017 (UTC)
	:::It's a good bet, but without confirmation, it's all speculation. However, as there is no proof one way or the other, I changed the wording to indicate that it was the first one released, rather than the first one made. {{User:DeFender1031/sig}} 23:38, 11 November 2017 (UTC)		:::It's a good bet, but without confirmation, it's all speculation. However, as there is no proof one way or the other, I changed the wording to indicate that it was the first one released, rather than the first one made. {{User:DeFender1031/sig}} 23:38, 11 November 2017 (UTC)
		+	I thought I remembered doing lots of research to back up this postulation 7 years ago, scouring interviews to find a quote from the Brothers Chaps confirming that this was indeed the first cartoon they ever made... But somehow, it seems I overlooked the toon's intro disclaimer. There it is, stated with no ambiguity: "the first cartoon we ever made". Given all the counterevidence I brought up, I still hesitate to take that statement at face value (perhaps it's a sort of [[Pom Pom, Too]] situation where they don't consider [[The King of Town DVD Old Version]] a full cartoon?)... But since that's just unfounded speculation, it seems we can pretty officially consider Marshmallow's Last Stand to be the first full toon they made (albeit not necessarily the first released on the site). (Also, in response to {{p\|l=http://hrwiki.org/w/index.php?title=The_Poopsmith&curid=1033&diff=831350&oldid=831347 this edit summary}}, I'm really not sure how "first cartoon that we ever put on the Homestar website" could be interpreted to include that extra qualifier.) {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig}} 07:18, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

Defender1031: /* The First Toon? */ reply.

2017-11-11T23:38:24Z

The First Toon?: reply.

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:38, 11 November 2017
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	:They could've just inserted the characters from the museum sketch book in as background characters, and later decided to put them in the king of town DVD. {{User:Mml554/sig}} 08:33, 14 December 2016 (UTC)		:They could've just inserted the characters from the museum sketch book in as background characters, and later decided to put them in the king of town DVD. {{User:Mml554/sig}} 08:33, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
	::But the Poopsmith wasn't seen in the museum sketchbook. They said they added him into the King of Town DVD as a joke, so it seems unlikely that he came from anywhere else. And they said they had him appear in other cartoons "here and there", which can refer to this crowd. And they've even said that the King of Town DVD was the first toon on the site, and it has a much cruder animation and writing style. {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig‎}} 22:14, 11 November 2017 (UTC)		::But the Poopsmith wasn't seen in the museum sketchbook. They said they added him into the King of Town DVD as a joke, so it seems unlikely that he came from anywhere else. And they said they had him appear in other cartoons "here and there", which can refer to this crowd. And they've even said that the King of Town DVD was the first toon on the site, and it has a much cruder animation and writing style. {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig‎}} 22:14, 11 November 2017 (UTC)
		+	:::It's a good bet, but without confirmation, it's all speculation. However, as there is no proof one way or the other, I changed the wording to indicate that it was the first one released, rather than the first one made. {{User:DeFender1031/sig}} 23:38, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

Gfdgsgxgzgdrc: /* The First Toon? */ reply

2017-11-11T22:14:03Z

The First Toon?: reply

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:14, 11 November 2017
Line 203:		Line 203:
	How do we know this is the first cartoon ([[Pom Pom, Too\|with dialogue, at least]])? It has The Poopsmith in it, and he was apparently created for a one-off joke in [[The King of Town DVD Old Version]]. The Brothers Chaps have said that it's [[The King of Town DVD Old Version#Commentary Transcript\|the first cartoon they ever put on the website]]. They also said "[[UMFM Interview - 20 May 2003\|Yeah, I mean, [The Poopsmith] originally was just going to be a one-off joke in the King of Town cartoon, where it says the Blacksmith and then the Poopsmith, but then people liked him, and we actually had him appear in a few other cartoons here and there.]]" The animation in The King of Town is also simpler and more amateur, as if they're still just learning [[Flash]]. Compare the drawings in The King of Town to Marshmallow's Last Stand. Homestar and Pom Pom (and all the other characters, I guess) have much, much better designs. Marshmallow's Last Stand has more of a plot, slightly better drawing and animation, and more dialogue. Anyways, my point is, The King of Town Old Version was probably made before Marshmallow's Last Stand. And with that, I am done [[Hremail 62\|tickling my face!]] {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig‎}} 21:39, 2 September 2016 (UTC)		How do we know this is the first cartoon ([[Pom Pom, Too\|with dialogue, at least]])? It has The Poopsmith in it, and he was apparently created for a one-off joke in [[The King of Town DVD Old Version]]. The Brothers Chaps have said that it's [[The King of Town DVD Old Version#Commentary Transcript\|the first cartoon they ever put on the website]]. They also said "[[UMFM Interview - 20 May 2003\|Yeah, I mean, [The Poopsmith] originally was just going to be a one-off joke in the King of Town cartoon, where it says the Blacksmith and then the Poopsmith, but then people liked him, and we actually had him appear in a few other cartoons here and there.]]" The animation in The King of Town is also simpler and more amateur, as if they're still just learning [[Flash]]. Compare the drawings in The King of Town to Marshmallow's Last Stand. Homestar and Pom Pom (and all the other characters, I guess) have much, much better designs. Marshmallow's Last Stand has more of a plot, slightly better drawing and animation, and more dialogue. Anyways, my point is, The King of Town Old Version was probably made before Marshmallow's Last Stand. And with that, I am done [[Hremail 62\|tickling my face!]] {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig‎}} 21:39, 2 September 2016 (UTC)
	:They could've just inserted the characters from the museum sketch book in as background characters, and later decided to put them in the king of town DVD. {{User:Mml554/sig}} 08:33, 14 December 2016 (UTC)		:They could've just inserted the characters from the museum sketch book in as background characters, and later decided to put them in the king of town DVD. {{User:Mml554/sig}} 08:33, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
		+	::But the Poopsmith wasn't seen in the museum sketchbook. They said they added him into the King of Town DVD as a joke, so it seems unlikely that he came from anywhere else. And they said they had him appear in other cartoons "here and there", which can refer to this crowd. And they've even said that the King of Town DVD was the first toon on the site, and it has a much cruder animation and writing style. {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig‎}} 22:14, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

Mml554 at 14:34, 14 December 2016

2016-12-14T14:34:47Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:34, 14 December 2016
Line 202:		Line 202:

	How do we know this is the first cartoon ([[Pom Pom, Too\|with dialogue, at least]])? It has The Poopsmith in it, and he was apparently created for a one-off joke in [[The King of Town DVD Old Version]]. The Brothers Chaps have said that it's [[The King of Town DVD Old Version#Commentary Transcript\|the first cartoon they ever put on the website]]. They also said "[[UMFM Interview - 20 May 2003\|Yeah, I mean, [The Poopsmith] originally was just going to be a one-off joke in the King of Town cartoon, where it says the Blacksmith and then the Poopsmith, but then people liked him, and we actually had him appear in a few other cartoons here and there.]]" The animation in The King of Town is also simpler and more amateur, as if they're still just learning [[Flash]]. Compare the drawings in The King of Town to Marshmallow's Last Stand. Homestar and Pom Pom (and all the other characters, I guess) have much, much better designs. Marshmallow's Last Stand has more of a plot, slightly better drawing and animation, and more dialogue. Anyways, my point is, The King of Town Old Version was probably made before Marshmallow's Last Stand. And with that, I am done [[Hremail 62\|tickling my face!]] {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig‎}} 21:39, 2 September 2016 (UTC)		How do we know this is the first cartoon ([[Pom Pom, Too\|with dialogue, at least]])? It has The Poopsmith in it, and he was apparently created for a one-off joke in [[The King of Town DVD Old Version]]. The Brothers Chaps have said that it's [[The King of Town DVD Old Version#Commentary Transcript\|the first cartoon they ever put on the website]]. They also said "[[UMFM Interview - 20 May 2003\|Yeah, I mean, [The Poopsmith] originally was just going to be a one-off joke in the King of Town cartoon, where it says the Blacksmith and then the Poopsmith, but then people liked him, and we actually had him appear in a few other cartoons here and there.]]" The animation in The King of Town is also simpler and more amateur, as if they're still just learning [[Flash]]. Compare the drawings in The King of Town to Marshmallow's Last Stand. Homestar and Pom Pom (and all the other characters, I guess) have much, much better designs. Marshmallow's Last Stand has more of a plot, slightly better drawing and animation, and more dialogue. Anyways, my point is, The King of Town Old Version was probably made before Marshmallow's Last Stand. And with that, I am done [[Hremail 62\|tickling my face!]] {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig‎}} 21:39, 2 September 2016 (UTC)
		+	:They could've just inserted the characters from the museum sketch book in as background characters, and later decided to put them in the king of town DVD. {{User:Mml554/sig}} 08:33, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

Gfdgsgxgzgdrc: /**/The First Toon?

2016-09-02T21:39:52Z

: The First Toon?

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:39, 2 September 2016
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	Why isn't The Cheat with Strong Bad and Strong Mad? {{unsigned\|24.216.222.15\|03:30, 23 November 2015}}		Why isn't The Cheat with Strong Bad and Strong Mad? {{unsigned\|24.216.222.15\|03:30, 23 November 2015}}
	:It can be assumed that The Cheat and Strong Mad's close relationship wasn't developed at this time, since it was only really revealed in [[Where's The Cheat?]] - {{User:Catjaz63/sig}} 04:40, 23 November 2015 (UTC)		:It can be assumed that The Cheat and Strong Mad's close relationship wasn't developed at this time, since it was only really revealed in [[Where's The Cheat?]] - {{User:Catjaz63/sig}} 04:40, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
		+
		+	== The First Toon? ==
		+
		+	How do we know this is the first cartoon ([[Pom Pom, Too\|with dialogue, at least]])? It has The Poopsmith in it, and he was apparently created for a one-off joke in [[The King of Town DVD Old Version]]. The Brothers Chaps have said that it's [[The King of Town DVD Old Version#Commentary Transcript\|the first cartoon they ever put on the website]]. They also said "[[UMFM Interview - 20 May 2003\|Yeah, I mean, [The Poopsmith] originally was just going to be a one-off joke in the King of Town cartoon, where it says the Blacksmith and then the Poopsmith, but then people liked him, and we actually had him appear in a few other cartoons here and there.]]" The animation in The King of Town is also simpler and more amateur, as if they're still just learning [[Flash]]. Compare the drawings in The King of Town to Marshmallow's Last Stand. Homestar and Pom Pom (and all the other characters, I guess) have much, much better designs. Marshmallow's Last Stand has more of a plot, slightly better drawing and animation, and more dialogue. Anyways, my point is, The King of Town Old Version was probably made before Marshmallow's Last Stand. And with that, I am done [[Hremail 62\|tickling my face!]] {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig‎}} 21:39, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

Catjaz63: Sign your posts. Also reply.

2015-11-23T04:40:15Z

Sign your posts. Also reply.

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:40, 23 November 2015
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	== Where's The Cheat? ==		== Where's The Cheat? ==

-	Why isn't The Cheat with Strong Bad and Strong Mad?	+	Why isn't The Cheat with Strong Bad and Strong Mad? {{unsigned\|24.216.222.15\|03:30, 23 November 2015}}
		+	:It can be assumed that The Cheat and Strong Mad's close relationship wasn't developed at this time, since it was only really revealed in [[Where's The Cheat?]] - {{User:Catjaz63/sig}} 04:40, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

24.216.222.15: /* Image randomiser */

2015-11-23T03:30:52Z

Image randomiser

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:30, 23 November 2015
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	Wiki user RickTommy gave me an idea. There is too many images on the Marshmallow's Last Stand page on the wiki (three images). We need an image randomiser. We have a Homsar Quote Randomiser, Why not make a MLS image randomiser? Also, I think this idea won't work at all, Just like all my other "ideas" :( My wiki-ideas never work. {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig‎}} 14:27, 17 January 2012 (UTC)		Wiki user RickTommy gave me an idea. There is too many images on the Marshmallow's Last Stand page on the wiki (three images). We need an image randomiser. We have a Homsar Quote Randomiser, Why not make a MLS image randomiser? Also, I think this idea won't work at all, Just like all my other "ideas" :( My wiki-ideas never work. {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig‎}} 14:27, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
		+
		+	== Where's The Cheat? ==
		+
		+	Why isn't The Cheat with Strong Bad and Strong Mad?

Gfdgsgxgzgdrc: /**/Image randomiser

2012-01-17T14:27:01Z

: Image randomiser

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:27, 17 January 2012
Line 189:		Line 189:
	It's the oldest big 'toon, it looks and sounds totally different from all the other 'toons, and it would be funny for the characters of today to mock what their old-selves said and did.		It's the oldest big 'toon, it looks and sounds totally different from all the other 'toons, and it would be funny for the characters of today to mock what their old-selves said and did.
	:This is speculation and forum talk. {{User:Heimstern Läufer/sig}} 01:41, 4 January 2010 (UTC)		:This is speculation and forum talk. {{User:Heimstern Läufer/sig}} 01:41, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
		+
		+	== Image randomiser ==
		+
		+	Wiki user RickTommy gave me an idea. There is too many images on the Marshmallow's Last Stand page on the wiki (three images). We need an image randomiser. We have a Homsar Quote Randomiser, Why not make a MLS image randomiser? Also, I think this idea won't work at all, Just like all my other "ideas" :( My wiki-ideas never work. {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig‎}} 14:27, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:04, 8 April 2024
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	I thought I remembered doing lots of research to back up this postulation 7 years ago, scouring interviews to find a quote from the Brothers Chaps confirming that this was indeed the first cartoon they ever made... But somehow, it seems I overlooked the toon's intro disclaimer. There it is, stated with no ambiguity: "the first cartoon we ever made". Given all the counterevidence I brought up, I still hesitate to take that statement at face value (perhaps it's a sort of [[Pom Pom, Too]] situation where they don't consider [[The King of Town DVD Old Version]] a full cartoon?)... But since that's just unfounded speculation, it seems we can pretty officially consider Marshmallow's Last Stand to be the first full toon they made (albeit not necessarily the first released on the site). (Also, in response to {{p\|l=http://hrwiki.org/w/index.php?title=The_Poopsmith&curid=1033&diff=831350&oldid=831347 this edit summary}}, I'm really not sure how "first cartoon that we ever put on the Homestar website" could be interpreted to include that extra qualifier.) {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig}} 07:18, 23 December 2023 (UTC)		I thought I remembered doing lots of research to back up this postulation 7 years ago, scouring interviews to find a quote from the Brothers Chaps confirming that this was indeed the first cartoon they ever made... But somehow, it seems I overlooked the toon's intro disclaimer. There it is, stated with no ambiguity: "the first cartoon we ever made". Given all the counterevidence I brought up, I still hesitate to take that statement at face value (perhaps it's a sort of [[Pom Pom, Too]] situation where they don't consider [[The King of Town DVD Old Version]] a full cartoon?)... But since that's just unfounded speculation, it seems we can pretty officially consider Marshmallow's Last Stand to be the first full toon they made (albeit not necessarily the first released on the site). (Also, in response to {{p\|l=http://hrwiki.org/w/index.php?title=The_Poopsmith&curid=1033&diff=831350&oldid=831347 this edit summary}}, I'm really not sure how "first cartoon that we ever put on the Homestar website" could be interpreted to include that extra qualifier.) {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig}} 07:18, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
	:I agree there is a little wiggle room. [[Old Flash Stuff]] calls MLS the "first '''full''' cartoon"; TKOT is less than 90 seconds long, and much of it is unvoiced (no narrator, and several lines of dialogue like "And I'm afraid a dragon has gobbled them up!" are not spoken), which could easily lead it to be considered more short than "full". In the [[l33t Interview]] (summer 2001), Mike qualifies MLS as "the first cartoon we did '''for the site'''", which again adds some ambiguity since several pieces of H*R were made before the site was registered.<br/>In MLS they clearly have an idea of who the Poopsmith is (whatsit gloves and pun on sign), he's not just a random character design they later developed into a poop-shoveler, so I think it's safe to assume TKOT was at least in-progress at the same time as MLS. Even if the more amateurish feeling of TKOT makes me willing to believe it could've been made earlier, you're right that we should defer to [[TVTropes:Main/WordOfGod\|Word of God]] on this one with MLS being "the first". --{{User:Bleu Ninja/sig}} 19:02, 23 December 2023 (UTC)		:I agree there is a little wiggle room. [[Old Flash Stuff]] calls MLS the "first '''full''' cartoon"; TKOT is less than 90 seconds long, and much of it is unvoiced (no narrator, and several lines of dialogue like "And I'm afraid a dragon has gobbled them up!" are not spoken), which could easily lead it to be considered more short than "full". In the [[l33t Interview]] (summer 2001), Mike qualifies MLS as "the first cartoon we did '''for the site'''", which again adds some ambiguity since several pieces of H*R were made before the site was registered.<br/>In MLS they clearly have an idea of who the Poopsmith is (whatsit gloves and pun on sign), he's not just a random character design they later developed into a poop-shoveler, so I think it's safe to assume TKOT was at least in-progress at the same time as MLS. Even if the more amateurish feeling of TKOT makes me willing to believe it could've been made earlier, you're right that we should defer to [[TVTropes:Main/WordOfGod\|Word of God]] on this one with MLS being "the first". --{{User:Bleu Ninja/sig}} 19:02, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
		+
		+	== November 1999 production - source for this? ==
		+
		+	Both this page and [[H*R.com updates 2000]] refer to the production of this toon taking place in November 1999. Not only is this irregular to note on the wiki, but they don't quite agree with what happened in November:
		+	* {{p\|l=http://hrwiki.org/w/index.php?title=H*R.com_updates_2000&diff=prev&oldid=751986 In 2015, an anonymous user added to the Updates page}} that MLS ''began'' production in November.
		+	* {{p\|l=http://hrwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Marshmallow%27s_Last_Stand&diff=prev&oldid=765482 In 2017, a user updated this page to add}} that MLS ''finished'' production in November.
		+
		+	I am not aware of anything to back this up. I've looked through [[Interviews and Public Appearances\|our catalogued interviews from 2001-03]] and even did a Google search for various combinations of "homestar runner"/"marshmallow's last stand"/"november 1999". It's not mentioned on the DVD commentary or on the DVD itself. The closest clue I've been able to find is "The Evolution of Homestar" [[Wallpaper]], which features one Homestar labeled 11/99. Although the design is very similar, this Homestar notably has a hat which Homestar doesn't wear in MLS {{--}} making it a closer match for [[Old Intro]].
		+
		+	Either way... we don't note production times in the lede's '''Date:''' field or on "HR.com updates 20XX" pages. The only exception I can think of is the [[sbemail 206]] teaser on [[HR.com updates 2012]], but there were some real extenuating circumstances there. I'd like to see a more concrete source and/or justification for including this vague "production" date in these two articles, or I'll probably cut it from both. --{{User:Bleu Ninja/sig}} 07:04, 8 April 2024 (UTC)