Yeltensic — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 01:28:03 GMT

Yeltensic: /* Guestbook */

<div class="usermessage">There are '''no''' Easter Eggs on this page.</div>
[[Image:TROGDOR!.PNG|thumb|right|What a mystery.]]
=Me=
Hey there, every peoples. I am Salty, AKA Lappy 486. I'm 13 and a half and live in San Antonio, Texas, USA. I've been a Homestar Runner fan since December 24, 2004, and have seen everything on the site and then some. I've been a wiki fan since like April of this year 2005. The H*R Wiki and H*R are definitely my two favorite wedsites.

=Ok More Yeah=
I make references to Homestar Runner every day. I constantly say "Jorb" and such, I say "You'd better believe it, Chimendez" to people, I say "I sure did", "Looks like I'm gonna have to jump!", "Right right", and a lot more that I can't remember. Just all the times. Even in that paragraph up there. So yeah.

I have a Trogdor T-Shirt a Homestar Lite shirt, the first set of figurines, and my sister has Homestar Running, a Lil' Brudder shirt, and the second set of figurines.

=My Stuff I did/do=
*I do lotsa [[HRWiki:Wiki Gnome|Gnoming]], you know, fixing errors and adding little facts and crap.
*I vote on the [[STUFF]] page all the time, for almost every fact that gets STUFF'd.
*I'm on the [[HRWiki:Recent changes patrol|Recent Changes Patrol]].
*I did all of the image descriptions on the [[Original Book]] and [[Where My Hat Is At?]]
*I am on the [[HRWiki:Welcoming committee|Wecloming Committee]], and have weclomed '''20''' new users.
*I inspired the [[Diapers]] page.
*I've done a lot on the [[Teen Girl Squad]] pages, especially [[Teen Girl Squad Locations]] and some on [[Minor Teen Girl Squad Characters]].
*I like giving sbemails and toons new images, for like, refurbishing, you know? Just to refresh it with a different screenshot.
*I did everything involving the [[Justice Rocket Backpack Rocket Rocket]] except two things.
*I created the [[Thyme]] page.

=Favorties=
==Favorite H*R Stuff==
===Favorite Characters===
*The Cheat
*Strong Bad
*Trogdor
*Stinkoman
*Homsar

===Favorite Toons===
*dragon
*japanese cartoon
*Fall Float Parade
*Peasant's Quest Movie Trailer
*Experimental Film
*Commandos in the Classroom
*Senor Mortgage
*Happy Trogday
*Senorial Day

===Favorite Quotes===
*"BUT COACH, I DON'T UNDERSTAND." —Homestar, Yello Dello
*"AaAah. RaAaAaAah. AaAaAaAaAaah! RaAaAh. Raaerr." —Homsar, Marzipan's Answering Machine 7
*"Kiss the butt." — Grape-Nuts Robot,Marzipan's Answering Machine 8
*"So, to claim your prize, just blindfold yourself and walk out on the front stow-oop, o-or stoop. and get ready to receive your free million (punches-in-the-face). Don't delay! Get outside right now! I'm waiting in the bushes!" —Strong Bad, Marzi's Machine 8
*"Hi there, Belindas!" —Senor Cardgage, Senor Mortgage
*"You must be girls." —No "I" In Team Boy, Teen Girl Squad 2
*"Augh! Bleh! Ewww! Grugh! No." —Cheerleader, Teen Girl Squad 8

===Favorite Scenes and Visuals===
*In Shopping for Danger when the commandos break into Price Style, Silent Rip falls in in the background.
*In New Boots, when Strong Bad gives The Cheat his picnic plate, it goes a-like "ding!" and Strong Bad smiles.
*Also in New Boots, The Cheat poors hot soup in Homestar's eyes, then dances on his face with crazy music in the background.
*The scene with the Horrible Painting in bottom 10.
*The dance contest in replacement, especially Homestar's part.
*<s>The Trogdor song in dragon.</s>Scratch that, the song in Happy Trogday.
*The way Homestar randomly falls in the death trap in Cool Things.
*The way Strong Bad looks at the viewer in lackey. Also the way the camera follows Doreauxgard when he is being created, and the way puppet Homestar laughs in the Easter Egg.
*The "Todarbor Day" song at the end of Labor Day.

==Miscellaneous Favorites==
===Favorite Movies===
*Signs
*The Princess Bride
*Airplane!
*Top Secret
*Ace Ventura (1 and 2)
*Naked Gun
*Blazing Saddles
*Ferris Bueller's Day Off
*Breakfast Club

===Favorite Foods===
*Avocados
*Pasta Shells
*Lasagna
*Steak
*Shrimp
*Crawfish
*Cheeseburgers
*<s>Childrens</s> I mean, uh, Chickens.... fried chicken....
*Ice cream

=Talk to Me!=
Go to my [[User Talk:Salty|talk]] page. Now. Also, sign my guestbook if you feel like it. Or else. Leave a message, suggestions, whatever.

===Guestbook===

#I love a salty boy!! -signed salty momma
#{{User:SupremeRulerOfSBadia/sig}} You sign mine, I sign yours.-28, Nov. 2005
#— {{User:Lapper/sig}} 00:43, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
#{{User:Kookykman/sig}} Gotta love community interaction. Back to recent changes with me, then... 00:46, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
#{{User:Bubsty/sig}} Man, suddenly every other user has a guestbook. And they're all people who signed mine. :-).
#--{{User:Benol/sig}} 00:49, 30 November 2005 (UTC)HIYA!!!!
#--{{User:bkmlb/sig}} 04:26, 2 December 2005 (UTC) ''{grumble grumble}'' guestbook ''{grumble grumble}'' user fad ''{grumble grumble}''
#[[Image:homsar_small.PNG]][[Image:The-cheat-small.png]]Homsarroks[[http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/User:Homsarroks]][[Image:homestar_openmouth.gif]] 20:16, 2 December 2005(UTC) Nice sig.
#--{{User:djm1791/sig2}}
#{{User:Teh_Frossty_One/sig}} 19:07, 4 December 2005 (UTC) Look at '''ALL''' the guestbooks...
#--[[User:Stux|Stux]] 19:29, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
#[[User:Jibney|Stinkoman]]-is this page asking for A CHALLENGE??????????
#{{User:The Chort/sig}} 17:03, 11 December 2005 (UTC) My autograph? Sure!
#{{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 19:59, 11 December 2005 (UTC) Go Spurs Go!
#{{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 21:59, 11 December 2005 (UTC) Guestbook'd!
#{{User:Trey56/sig}} 06:52, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
#{{User:Heimstern Läufer/sig}} 07:22, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
#{{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 12:14, 16 December 2005 (UTC) Something witty!
#{{User:Almo/sig}} 12:10, 16 December 2005 (UTC) A great big "Haldo!" from me to you.
#{{User:The thing/sig}} 11:28, 18 December 2005 (UTC) Hello!!!!!!!
#{{User:KieferSkunk/sig}} 22:39, 20 December 2005 (UTC) — Hey look, I signed another guestbook! Woohoo!
#--{{User:The 386/sig}} 17:01, 21 December 2005 (UTC) I don't care how much I have or what I'm doing. I am signing this.
#{{User:Nckinfn04/sig}} 21:56, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
#{{User:Dantheburgerking/sig}} 17:26, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
#{{User:Kilroy/sig}} 23:29, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
#[[User:SparkPlug|SparkPlug]] 23:29, 3 January 2006 (UTC) W00t!
#i'm on a roll! these guestbooks are mine! [[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 04:50, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
#[[User:TheGreatLogini|TheGreatLogini]] 12:45, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
#{{User:Bubyman/sig}} 10, January 2006
#{{User:ACupOfCoffee/sig}} I'd have thought I'd have signed this one by now.
#{{User:LePorello/sig}} 22:09, 11 January 2006 (UTC)Why do I sign guestbooks? I don't know.
#[[User:Bluebry muffin|Bluebry muffin]] Hey. You were the first actual person to sign my guestbook!
#{{User:RJMT/sig}} 04:43, 18 January 2006 (UTC) hi!
#{{User:Gnome of Fury/sig}} 17:56, 22 January 2006 (UTC) They're starting to consider getting rid of guestbooks, so I wanted to cover all the bases before that...
#--[[User:Nintendostar_Runner|Nintendostar_Runner]] Please don't dig up the guestbooks.
# Wow, I never noticed how many guestbooks I forgot when I first got here. Sorry for not signing sooner, man. {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}
#[[User:Yeltensic|Yeltensic]] [[User talk:Yeltensic|Save the guestbooks]] 01:28, 28 January 2006 (UTC) Thanks for signing my guestbook
 
 
::::::Talk atcha later,
::::::::::—Salty {{User:Salty/sig}}

User talk:Has Matt?

Yeltensic — Fri, 27 Jan 2006 03:13:13 GMT

Yeltensic: /* Test Edit */

<center><big>'''''For an archive of past discussions, please go [[User talk:Has Matt?/archive1|here]].'''''</big></center>

== User quotes ==

Hey, Dr. Matt. I just wanted to say that your compilation of user quotes topped off my good day. They were funny. Thanks. —[[User:BazookaJoe|BazookaJoe]] 05:22, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
:Yes, quite. I aspire to be on such a list some day. I guess I just haven't said anything worth quoting yet. Anyways... Keep on tranglin'. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]

== "[http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=Hamburger_Shampoo&curid=12334&diff=232294&oldid=232293&rcid=177127 too tired to write a witty edit summary...]" ==

So how about writing what the edit is actually about? When I check my watchlist or the recent changes, I want to see what edits are about, not some witty comments. Leave those to STUFF headings. {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 19:21, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
:Also, what the crap was [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=Marzipan%27s_Ukulele&curid=4278&diff=232304&oldid=210169&rcid=177137 this] about? You know that appearances aren't supposed to be <nowiki>== ==, they're === ===</nowiki>! {{User:Bubsty/sig}} 19:29, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
::They are, Bubsty? I didn't know that. As long as they are all one or the other, it doesn't matter. —[[User:BazookaJoe|BazookaJoe]] 01:37, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
:::Sorry about the lack of replies. I kinda took a short one day vacation. Anyway, I'm sorry about what happened with the edit summary and I'll remember not to do it again. To answer Bubsty's question, I had never heard that before. Is it listed in the Manual of Style somewhere? {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 14:09, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
::::Oh. Sorry. Thought you had. Well basiclly, appearances are with 3 equal signs, not 2. {{User:Bubsty/sig}} 16:26, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
:::::I know that this is partially old, but you seem to be being a little picky. Chances are you're going to click on the page anyway to see the changes. I'd hate to see what you say about my edit summaries. - {{User:Super_Sam/sig}} 11:11, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

== The guestbooks not dead... so glad the guestbooks not dead... ==
:Actully Has Matt?, my guestbook isn't gone, just moved to a different page. {{User:Bubsty/sig}} 16:25, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
::Okay. I'll remove the stuff I put on my user page. {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 18:24, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

== 1,234th ==

Dear Has Matt?, 
Do you realise that you created the 1,234th [[The Cheat's Glowsticks|article]] on the wiki? Just a little bit o' fun facts for ya. 
See you on the flip side, 
[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]

Whoa. ''{awkward pause}'' That's pretty cool. But it would be even cooler if I made the 1,337th article. Or at least I think so. 
,edis pilf eht no uoy eeS 
{{User:Has Matt?/sig}}

== not binary... WRONG!==
:Your not binary thing is binary! It means 5U* {{User:Bubsty/sig}} 02:15, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

::What the! Astrisks are translatable into binary?! I really just typed random 0's and 1's all over the place. Hmmm.... maybe if I do it again, I'll be able to write the Great American Novel! {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 02:19, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
:::If you put enough Has Matt?s in front of keyboards, one will eventually bang out the works of shakespeare.... in binary.... {{User:Bubsty/sig}} 02:21, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
:::Explination for corny joke: There's a saying that says "if you put enough monkeys in front of typewriters, one will eventually bang out the works of shakespeare". {{User:Bubsty/sig}} 03:23, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
::::Get this: if there were an infinite amount of monkeys typing at an infinite amount of typewriters, the smell in the room would be unbearable. {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 03:28, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

== count the "e"s==
:I got 20. (Can I have my wine, women, and cupcakes now?) {{User:Bubsty/sig}} 03:55, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

::Uhhh.... ''{trys to think up excuse for not having wine, women and cupcakes, fails on pretty much every level}'' uhh... they're right here! ''{points to a pride of badgers playing football, than runs away}'' {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 03:58, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
:::Footy Footy Footy Footy Footy Footy Footy Footy Footy Footy Footy Footy Englad England! (From Weebl and Bob) {{User:Bubsty/sig}} 01:57, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

== Hi...I think ==

Hi Did you know I made the Homsar artical on uncyclopedia? (I to tired to put in links) There was somthing else I wanted to say but I forgat. Ummmmmm do you want me to eat Bubsty on tuesday?{{User:pieinbubsface/sig}} 19:28, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

:I saw that article! It was a-pretty good! Are you a frequent user on Uncyclopedia? Anyways, about eating Bubsty, you'd probably want to get some ketchup first. {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 23:02, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

== Help ==

You said that I could ask for help in the Welcome thing. Okay, this ruins it, but, am I allowed to have Easter Eggs in my sig? See my page under NEW SIG and scroll over all of the new sig. In fact, here's the sig now. Look at the two dashes and space between muffin and talk {{User:Bluebry muffin/sig}}.
-[[User:Bluebry muffin|Bluebry muffin]] 22:53, 15 January 2006 (UTC) Delete this message after reading. Just so not too many people know about the Easter eggs.
:To tell you the truth, I really don't know. I mean, I don't see any harm in it, but I'm not a sysop, so I really have no clue. I'd suggest heading on over to someone like [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] on this one. You could also try posting it on the [[HRWiki talk:FAQ|FAQ talk page]]. {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 22:57, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
::Though that would kind of spoil it, I suppose. The current official rules on sigs, by the way, are at [[HRWiki:Signature]]. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 23:29, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
:::I read it just now. It says, and I quote, "Your signature may include links to your talk page, contributions, or other applicable pages." So I don't think that Easter eggs like that are allowed in sigs. {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 23:32, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
::::Wait. Wouldn't someone on the Recent Changes Patrol had told me about this already? BTW, you got the KOT section before I did! [[User:Bluebry muffin|Bluebry muffin]] 23:36, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
:::::It's dot com just told me it's alright. Any way, you won! can you find the new 8 on there? {{User:Bluebry_muffin/sig}}
::::::I sure did. {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 00:33, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
:::::::Can you give me a message of all of them? {{User:Bluebry muffin/sig}}00:54, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

== lemme guess where your name came from... ==

I think your name came from [[couch patch]] when The Poopsmith was spraying Strong Bad. --{{User:The 386/sig}} 00:48, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

:Yep, you got it! {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 15:01, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

== New Page! ==

I made a new page! Will you tell me what you think of it? [[The Brothers Strong]]. {{User:Bluebry muffin/sig}}02:13, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

:Wow! Cool page! I was thinking of making that article a long time ago, but I never did. Good jorb! {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 15:01, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

::Good jorb to YOU for finding the perfect The Cheat image. I just used the first one I saw. [[User:Bluebry muffin|Bluebry muffin]] 15:11, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

== Wierd Dream ==

I had the wierdest dream involving you last night. I said something to you on your talk page, and then, somehow, you called me by my 1st and last name, and then you got blocked. Werll, anyhoo... I know you wouldn't do that. I hope...--{{User:Benol/sig}} 15:36, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

:Did you have any pudding pops? {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 15:37, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
::No, but I had a never ending bowl of mashed potatoes!--{{User:Benol/sig}} 15:41, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
:::and anyways, the person that I know that I identified you as in my dream lives in Georgia, like me.--{{User:Benol/sig}} 16:23, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
::::Well, I live in Texas, not Georgia. {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 18:25, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
:::::If you were to take a wild stab at my name, what would it be?--{{User:Benol/sig}} 18:30, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
::::::Hmmm... let's see here... Will... um.... Hartman. Will Hartman. {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 18:32, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
:::::::HOW DID YOU GET IT RIGHT????? (actually my name is Ben Lastname)--{{User:Benol/sig}} 18:33, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
::::::::Yeah, I looked at your page just now and saw that you tried to enter your full name, and it was shortened to "benols", so Ben would have to be your first name. {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 18:35, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
:do you like my images???--{{User:Benol/sig}} 18:41, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
::Yeah, they're all really cool! Except, um, aren't you only supposed to only have two personal images? {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 18:42, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
:::I do only have 2. The others are hotlinked to my photobucket account.--{{User:Benol/sig}} 18:44, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
::::Oh, I see now! {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 18:45, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
:::::Which one is your favorite???--{{User:Benol/sig}} 18:46, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
::::::That flagrant system error one is pretty cool. And the dictionary definition of "Benol". {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 18:48, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
:Is your name Ben Olsen Benol? [[User:24.18.208.18|24.18.208.18]] 05:20, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
::OMG!!! HOW THID YOU FREAKIN KNOW THAT, MR IP???? I'M SCARED!!!!!!!!!--{{User:Benol/sig}} 15:40, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

== Larry ==
Larrys online right now! {{User:The thing/sig}} 22:18, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
:What you say?! {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 22:19, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
::I tried to talk to him but he didn't answer. {{User:The thing/sig}} 22:23, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
:::You mean there is an AIM account with that name? {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 22:31, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

:::Larry is ladeezluvlarry71 {{User:The thing/sig}} 22:33, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

::::I was IAMing Larry: 
Me: Yo Hi Larry! 
Me: You were just typing. 
Me: I know your there. 
Me: I'm just gonna keep saying stuff until you say somthing back. 
ladeezluvlarry71: sigh 
ladeezluvlarry71: I mean 
ladeezluvlarry71: tonight! wooh-mon! we'll be drivin' down Sepulveda with the t-top down? 
Me: I told you you were there. 
ladeezluvlarry71: indeed 
Me: Do you know Strong Bad? 
ladeezluvlarry71: yep, he's up on my wall 
ladeezluvlarry71: on the everybody everybody poster 
Me: Cool 
Me: Tell him I said Hi.
Me: Actuly I don't have to go so not bye.
Me: So... 
ladeezluvlarry71 is away at 5:51:06 PM. 
Me: so

Auto response from ladeezluvlarry71: HEY! I'm gonna be online later on playing an MMORPG if you wanna join my guild!
{{User:The thing/sig}} 22:55, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

:Whoa, that's freakin' ''awesome!'' You should put that on the [[death metal]] page. {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 23:02, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

== Just wanted to say thanks... ==

Thanks, for giving me the okay to make those re-directs. They was my first major edits to the Homestar Runner Wiki. Also, thanks for welcoming me to the Wiki. I appreciate this very much. [[User:Beat|Beat]] 22:39, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
:You're welcome! It was a good idea, after all. Keep on making those good edits! {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 22:41, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

== Will you help me? ==

I have noticed in many edit summaries on the Wiki that their is grey text showing an articles category on its page and a arrow linking to the category. Can you teach me how to do that? [[User:Beat|Beat]] 22:59, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
:Soitenly! First off, I might as well tell you that you don't always have to click on the edit tab at the top of the screen to edit a page and fish through all that text to find what you want. If you want to edit just one section of a page, like, say, inside references, there should be a link that says "edit" on top of the Inside References heading. Click on that, and you'll only be editing that section, making things a whole lot easier. Doing that will automatically generate <nowiki>/* Inside References */</nowiki> in the edit summary, so it shows up grey in Recent changes. To manually make it grey with a link to the section, just put the brackets and the asterisks outside the text. Hope this answers your question! {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 23:05, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

== Screenshot ==

Holá Has Matt?, just a question. Are users allowed to put the, um, <nowiki>{{web-screenshot}}</nowiki> images on a user page? {{User:Bluebry muffin/sig}} 00:49, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
:Sure! You can use those images for just about anything, even if their main use is for the actual Wiki. If you couldn't use those images on user pages, just think of all the personal images that would have to be needlessly uploaded! {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 00:51, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
::Moreover, they don't count towards your [[HRWiki:User space#What_can_I_have_on_my_user_page.3F|personal image limit]]. --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 01:50, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
:::Cool. Hey, can I use images from OTHER sites? (I still think no... dunno why) Also I added a personal image. Check it out! Main22TangerineDreams.PNG . {{User:Bluebry muffin/sig}} 02:03, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
::::I think you can. [[User:Benol|Benol]] has a lot of images from other websites, you could ask him. I don't know how to do it, however. By the way, that's a cool Tangerine Dreams gallery you've got there! {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 02:08, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
:::::Thanks for the images! But don't worry, I knew about those. I did a search. I want ones that actually ''show'' Tangerine Dreams. Thanks anyways! {{User:Bluebry muffin/sig}} 02:54, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
::::::Hey! I got this pic, and um, should I put it on the Tangerine Dreams page? Full Dreams Flash.png . {{User:Bluebry muffin/sig}} 16:35, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
I saw that one, it looks cool! I think you should put it in the gallery at the bottom of the page. {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 16:41, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
:On mine or Tangerine Dreams? (Sorry about asking a lot of questions, By the way) {{User:Bluebry muffin/sig}} 16:43, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
::The Tangerine Dreams page. Sorry I didn't specify. {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 16:45, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
:::It's ok. I put it on there anyway. {{User:Bluebry muffin/sig}} 17:12, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

== You can delete it now. ==

Hey, you can get a sysop to delete that subpage now. Sorry about that, I have made it to how it is supposed to be. I want to have everything I do here to be good, no matter how big or small, but I know I will mess up a few times. So, thanks for pointing that out. [[User:Beat|Beat]] 01:08, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

== Hey ==

I just became a member of the Welcoming Commitee AND The Recent Changes Patrol. Thought you should know. hi. --[[User:Bluebry muffin|Bluebry]] 02:05, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
:Grood! Joining committees really helps the Wiki and it helps to convey a better sense of community among members. You can get to know a lot of different users through committees. Good luck with reverting edits and welcoming new users! {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 02:08, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
::Hey, thanks for putting me on your cool people list! (Which I saw 'cause I'm on Recent Changes.) [[User:Bluebry muffin|Bluebry]] 03:14, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
:::No problem! You seem to be really nice and involved with the Wiki, and I can definetly see you becoming an even better user in the near future. Keep on tranglin'! {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 03:16, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
::::Keep on tranglin'. And Bluebryan. Also, I can't believe about the guestbook thing. I still haven't figured out if I was the first one with twins! 19:28, 22 January 2006 (UTC)[[User:Bluebry muffin|Bluebry]] 19:28, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

== What do you think? ==

Hey, I was wondering about the song that Strong Bad sang in portrait. You know, the "musical" part? Except for the last couple of notes, it sounds like the song from Fall Float Parade. I was considering getting this fact STUFF'd, but there's a few things:

1. I do not know how to STUFF a fact.

2. I'm nervous because I just ''know'' it will be rejected.

3. I wanted a third-party opinion to see if it would be worth it.

Do you think the musical part of portrait sounds like Fall Float Parade? Check it out if you need to, and reply to me on my talk page. Get back to me ASAP. --[[User:Nintendostar_Runner|Nintendostar_Runner]]

:Well, if you think they sound similar, go ahead, and put it on there. I might as well tell you, though, it's probably just a coincidence. If a toon is this old and there are still inside references that haven't been noticed, it usually is not a reference. But if you want to know how to STUFF a fact, go to [[HRWiki:STUFF]]. {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 20:17, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
::And actually, it ''is'' in [[portrait#Inside References]]. I buy it. (But yeah, proving the "if it hasn't been noticed in the first two weeks it probably isn't valid" rule. Now typos, on the other hand—I seen some typos from years ago just now being fixed!) —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 21:09, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
:::Crap, I should really start paying attention more often! {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 21:14, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
::::Oooooh, it's already there. --[[User:Nintendostar_Runner|Nintendostar_Runner]]

== In A.D. 2006... ==

Hi, man. Thanks for the finding my parody funny (and not forgeting linking to me). Keep on Triangling! {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 07:22, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
:You're weclome! I just saw it on Heimstern's talk page and I couldn't resist! Thanks for the kick-awesome parody! ''Bake off every 'cupcake'! You know what you doing. Bake 'cupcake'.'' {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 20:20, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

== Welcoming ==

You won't believe it! Some of the first people's I ever welcom'd were trolls (at least they were blocked). Horrible day. [[User:Bluebry muffin|Bluebry]] 02:10, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
:Yeah, I noticed. Just so you know, a vandal is impersonating you right now, with the name "Banaa muffin". Better go chack it out. {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 02:13, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
::Don't feel bad, Bluebry. You're gaining valuable wiki experience. Level up! —[[User:BazookaJoe|BazookaJoe]] 02:14, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
:::Take off every 'troll'! You know what you doing. Block 'troll'. For great justice. {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 02:16, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
::::I'm a little confused. According to Recent Changes and User Contribs, [[User:Banaa muffin]] hasn't made any edits at all, and nobody ever welcomed him/her. Did I miss something? {{User:KieferSkunk/sig}} 02:45, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
:::::It's a possible Willy on Wheels sockpuppet, though I can't be sure because I don't have the tools available to determine that. The other admins may be able to determine that. But, we'll let Banaa muffin sleep, we'll let the welcome stay, and we will probably never see the user again. —[[User:BazookaJoe|BazookaJoe]] 02:47, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
::::::Probably good policy to welcome other accounts that were created during the fray when we see them make positive edits, eh? Their Talk links will still be red at that point. {{User:KieferSkunk/sig}} 02:51, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
:::::::That's how we welcomed in the past, yeah. —[[User:BazookaJoe|BazookaJoe]] 02:52, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
Oh, yeah. Knew about Banaa muffin. I don't really mind. He'll never be the real Bluebrawesomeness (for $20, I'll never say that again. Just kiddin) [[User:Bluebry muffin|Bluebry]] 03:10, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
:Actually, I kinda like it. If I'm known to a non-wiki user so much (s)he impersonates me, that's kinda cool. To me. Awesome. Even if Banaa muffin defaces MY user page (not like I think (s)he will, I'll still have an impersonator. Cool! Also, did you know SNL is on iTunes? So cool! [[User:Bluebry muffin|Bluebry]] 03:34, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

== Uncyclopedia ==

Woah, cool, a fellow Uncyclopedia reader. Have you seen the article on [http://www.uncyclopedia.org/wiki/HRWIKI The HRWIKI]? If anybody says I wrote most of it, they lie. - {{User:Super_Sam/sig}} 11:15, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

==Test Edit==

The anon was actually me, not logged in, I was doing that to refresh my memory of exactly what the "new messages" box looks like. [[User:Yeltensic|Yeltensic]] [[User talk:Yeltensic|Save the guestbooks]] 00:10, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
:Oh, OK then. Sorry about that. I thought you were just some other IP. I see you put the "New messages" thing on your page. It looks ''really'' weird with two "New messages" boxes on my screen. o_O {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 00:13, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
::That's fine, you didn't have any way of knowing it was me. That's what it was for, I wanted to see what the box looks like; I have that on my Wikipedia page, so I copy-and-pasted it here, but I couldn't remember exactly what the box looked like and whether it was slightly different here (turns out, the difference is that on Wikipedia it has a second link to the edit history of your talkpage) (and also I had to change the page it linked to, since it's a different site. [[User:Yeltensic|Yeltensic]] [[User talk:Yeltensic|Save the guestbooks]] 03:13, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

User talk:Has Matt?

Yeltensic — Fri, 27 Jan 2006 00:10:15 GMT

Yeltensic:

Yeltensic — Thu, 26 Jan 2006 21:17:22 GMT

Yeltensic: reading the rest of this talkpage, it looks to be used almost always as a bulletin board

User talk:Will

Yeltensic — Thu, 26 Jan 2006 21:05:53 GMT

Yeltensic: /* Yay!!!!!! */

User talk:Will

Yeltensic — Thu, 26 Jan 2006 20:40:19 GMT

Yeltensic: /* Dot com */

Talk:Main Page

Yeltensic — Thu, 26 Jan 2006 19:53:46 GMT

Yeltensic:

User:Bluebry

Yeltensic — Thu, 26 Jan 2006 19:37:52 GMT

Yeltensic: /* No, but seriously, sign my guestbook. /\ Or My Second Guestbook \/ Or both (Neither will this one)  */

== My mood ==
I'd like it if you cared.

Week of Jan. 23 - happy

[[Image:Wikistress3D 1 v3.jpg|thumb|Even though I finished all of my work at 8:53, I'm happy (weird).]]

== Welcoming and Patrols ==
I hath joined the Welcoming committee and the Recent Changes Patrol. I feel great!

== Todo ==

=== [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=HRWiki:Guestbooks&oldid=244812| Wanna see something funny?] ===
I accidentally placed my ENTIRE USER PAGE in the approve section. Look!



#Get at least fifty pictures in the Tangerine Dreams section.
#Finally buy an orange G3 iBook on eBay.
#Buy Strong Bad Sings.
#Stare at Takin' A Break for an hour.
#Make 5 unreverted edits in a row. Done

== Hello - just call me Bluebry==

Umm, hi. I'm Bluebry muffin. I got my name from one of Homestar's lines in the [[Experimental Film]] commentary. I like to program software. Nothing much, just no use programs. Like a random number generator. Not really too important. Or a slot machine with graphics done in Paint (the program)? They're BITMAPS! But uh, anyways I do like the song Experimental Film. Yeah. Yeah. Ok then, um, bye.

Oh yeah, bye the way, I have a computer similar to [[Tangerine Dreams|Tan]][[G|g]][[Tangerine Dreams|erine Dreams]], [[The Cheat|The Cheat's]] computer. Except mine's a different color (not blueberry) and his is slightly older.

My proudest moment on the wiki: The time I added something to a fun facts list without knowing it had already been mentioned. So, I guess that's more like my most embarrasing moment.

Also, because of my username, I now cannot say "Blueberry" the way I used to. Oh, wait, yes I can. Nevermind.

== Read! ==

=== First person to find all 11 eggs wins! Ready?... No? ...Too bad! Go!=== 

== Oh, hey Pom Pom, I just heard the most hilarious quotes... ==

[[Strong Sad]]:
*"I'm sad 'cause I'm flying" - [[Main Page 15]]
[[Homestar]]:
*"Hey Stwong Sad, Batman. What awe you guys doing in my house?" - [[caper]]
*"Backyard peaches! Treats come true! Karate Summer, what wouldja do? The world is the egg, and diapers come true..." - [[Halloween Potion-ma-jig]]
*"Hey lady" (to Marzipan) - [[Strong Bad is in Jail Cartoon]]

== An email I once got ==

<blockquote class="email">Dear [[User talk:Bluebry muffin|Bluebry Muffin]], 
 
I haven't seen you since Rio! 
What's up? I got my PHD and have a million bucks 
No I don't. I'm sorry. 
But I do have a sedan. See ya in Montevideo! 
 
Anyways, 
 
Kickin' Recipes for Duck A L'orange 
1 orange duck 
3 oranges 
7 ?renchies 
5 ovens 
4 heats 
6 coupons 
 
Instructions: Do stuff until you give up and get a free one with 
your 6 1/2 off coupons. Yeah it's a rip off, but who cares? So eat 
the duck say "I'm full" and watch reruns of that show from the '80s that you loved and still remember all of the lines, and then your roommate leaves and you just have to sit there and imagine why you can't get ye flask. 
 
Why_Not@Dude_havnt_seen_since_Rio_in_86.commercial_airlines</blockquote>

Talk to me @ [[User_talk:Bluebry muffin|my talk pa]][[G|g]][[User_talk:Bluebry muffin|e]]

== Bye Everyone! ==
Everyone's leaving!

First Bubsty, 

Then Homestramy20,

and now DBK!

(If I missed you, you can add your name.)

== Book ==
I made a story!

Why not?

Little Johnny was a young boy who liked to eat mustard staight from the little package. One day, he blah blah blah ... (Now you're asleep) ... dot dot dot ... (Now you're awake) ... "But what about the butter farm?" asked young Johnny. "It's gonna be alright" said Grampa in his pajamas. They both walk out of the Convienience store and drive off into the sunset, to Maine. The End.

Should I publish it?

Let me know!

== Other stuff! ==

Oh, bye the way, I talked to a lamp. I said "hi!".

And uh, [[User:Has Matt?|Has Matt?]] was the user who welcomed me.

And [[User:Salty|Salty]] was the first person to sign my guestbook.

[[User:The thing|The thing]] was the first person to give their favorite sbemail, and to sign my second guestbook.

[[User:Dantheburgerking|Dantheburgerking]] was the first person to participate in the poll

Oh and hey, does Chairscoot really exist? I think yes.

== Favorite Sbemail (aka Strong Bad Email) ==

*[[modeling|m]][[montage|ontage]] and [[weird dream]] - [[User:Bluebry muffin|Bluebry muffin]]
*[[funny]] and [[virus]] {{User:The thing/sig}}
*[[for kids]] {{User:The Chort/sig}}
*[[rock opera]] {{User:Dantheburgerking/sig}}
*[[kids' book]], [[long pants]], and [[flashback]] {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 20:56, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
*[[dangeresque 3]] and [[highschool]] {{User:Teh_Frossty_One/sig}}
*[[virus]] {{User:Homsarroks/sig}}
*[[morning routine]] {{User:The 386/sig}} 15:11, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
*[[dangeresque 3]] {{User:Benol/sig}} 23:56, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
*[[dragon]] --{{User:Extinctoman/sig}} 21:59, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
*[[death metal]] -{{User:NOT Billy Bob Bob/sig}} 21:36, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*[http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=User:Bluebry_muffin&action=edit&section=9 Add your own!]

== Other Sbemail - Early tally! ==
Hello. I recently did a poll on who people wanted to see answer an email. The votes were as follows:

*[[The Cheat]] - {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}
*[[Strong Sad]] - [[User:Bluebry muffin|Bluebry muffin]]
*[[Coach Z]] - {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}} {{User:djm1791/sig}}
*[[Bubs]] - {{User:Dantheburgerking/sig}}
*[[Homsar|Homsa]][[homsar|r]] - [[User:Bluebry muffin|Bluebry muffin]] {{User:Homsarroks/sig}} {{User:Salty/sig}}{{User:Teh_Frossty_One/sig}}{{User:The Chort/sig}}
*[[Marshie|Marshi]][[Mr. Shmallow|e]] - {{User:Dantheburgerking/sig}}
*[[The Paper]] - [[User:Bluebry muffin|Bluebry muffin]]{{User:Teh_Frossty_One/sig}}
*[[Senor Cardgage]] - {{User:Dantheburgerking/sig}}
*[[Stinkoman]] - {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}
*[[What's Her Face]] -{{User:Salty/sig}}{{User:Teh_Frossty_One/sig}}
*[[Trogdor|Trog]][[G|g]][[Trogday|i]][[Trogador|e]] -{{User:The thing/sig}} {{User:Salty/sig}} {{User:Homsarroks/sig}}

Homsar won with 5 votes, and 9 people voting (tell me if I added wrong).

The email was sent under the name Bluebry muffin. Address = bluebrymuffin@hotmail.com . Hope it gets picked!

<blockquote class="lappy email">
<div>Subject: Create a song</div>
Make an email beginning song 

Example
*''Talking''"Email is great" - Name 1 (may use timestamp)
*''Singing''"Email is good" - Name 2 (may use timestamp)

\/ Place yours below \/
</blockquote>

*''Singing''"Emails are all I got left, since The Printer left me, ''uh''" [[User:Bluebry muffin|Bluebry muffin]] 22:08, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
*''Talking'' "Boogidie Boogidie, I'll scare your email!" {{User:Dantheburgerking/sig}} 23:40, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
*''Singing'' "One! Two! Three! Four! Check my e-mail all day long! Got nuthin better to do than sing this song!"-{{User:Homsarroks/sig}} 13:48, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
*''Singing''"And the email comes in the Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight."--[[User:Bluebry muffin|Bluebry muffin]] 15:02, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
*''{rapping}'' "E, to the mail. That makes an e-mail. ''{talking}'' Or so I've heard." {{User:Teh_Frossty_One/sig}} 20:17, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
*''Singing'' If you're awesome and you know it, check the email! {{User:The Chort/sig}} 20:26, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
*''Talking'' "Can't we all just... check an email?" {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 21:03, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
*"I turn on, I log on, I check my email. I turn on, I log on, I check my email." {{User:djm1791/sig}} 10:10, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
*''Singing'' "Gonna check 'em all cause it's Strong Bad Email!" [[User:Marth 99|Marth 99]] 14:58, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
*''Singing'' "Gonna checka my eeeeee-mail I say I'm gonna checka my eeeeee-mail!" {{User:The thing/sig}} 23:45, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
*''(typing his usual stuff}''eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee''{presses enter}'' mail. {{User:Salty/sig}}
*Agrlinliuerwg'''email'''bwgbetg... {{User:Salty/sig}} 02:52, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
*''Singing'' Here we go, email, here we go! Unh! Unh! {{User:LePorello/sig}} 12:40, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
*''Talking'' Please keep your hands and feet inside the email at all times. {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 16:52, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
*''Talking'' Check it once. Check it twice. Now gimme a liitle bit of email and spice. --{{User:Nckinfn04/sig}} 00:38, 26 January 2006 (UTC)


==Sign My Guestbook!!!!!!!?##!!!!hi!!!!! (It died!) ==

Yeah, um, I murdered my first guestbook. Umm, still got one!



==No, but seriously, sign my guestbook. /\ Or My Second Guestbook \/ Or both (Neither will this one) ==
No.{{User:The thing/sig}} 14:21, 14 January 2006 (UTC) OK fine
:{{User:Salty/sig}} 14:56, 14 January 2006 (UTC) Is this a ''second'' guestbook? I think not.
{{User:Dantheburgerking/sig}}!!!! 
{{User:Teh_Frossty_One/sig}} 23:50, 14 January 2006 (UTC) two for da price o' one 
{{User:Homsarroks/sig}} Seriously. Crumpets rule.
{{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 00:12, 15 January 2006 (UTC) This is for your twin guestbook. 
{{User:Kilroy/sig}} 00:13, 15 January 2006 (UTC) Cool..
 Yo again! {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}
[[User:Bluebry muffin|Bluebry muffin]] 14:56, 15 January 2006 (UTC) Yay! I still have guestbooks to sign!
--{{User:Benol/sig}} 23:57, 15 January 2006 (UTC) I'm only gonna sign this one!!!

{{User:djm1791/sig}} 10:12, 16 January 2006 (UTC) uh hi again?
*[[User:TheGreatLogini|TheGreatLogini]] 12:32, 18 January 2006 (UTC) BAAAAgels. You know they're beeeeetter!
*{{User:LePorello/sig}} 00:48, 23 January 2006 (UTC) YOUR DOPPELGANGER GUESTBOOK A SPLODE
*[[User:Yeltensic|Yeltensic]] [[User talk:Yeltensic|Save the guestbooks]] 19:37, 26 January 2006 (UTC) Thanks for signing my guestbook

== Tangerine Dreams ==
<blockquote class="email" style="background-image:none;border:4px solid #f90;background:#F7F7F7;color:#000">
Tangerine Dreams is my favorite thing in the H*R universe. Here are a buncha pictures of it.
</blockquote><blockquote class="email" style="background-image:none;border:4px solid #f90;background:#F7F7F7;color:#000">
Also - if you have a Mac from around this era (basically G3, I think. Around Late 90's, Early 2000's) please, take a picture of it, and post it on here (leave Tangerine Dreams up to me). Thanks!

</blockquote>
<gallery>

Image:tangerine dreams.PNG|<center>Tangerine Dreams is awesome. And is orange.</center>
Image:Puppet Tangerine.PNG|<center>Da '''real''' Tangerine Dreams</center>
Image:Main22TangerineDreams.PNG|<center>Tangerine Dreams, Homestar, and Strong Bad, as friends. Awwwwww.</center>
Image:bkrndtoconvertpng.PNG|<center>Tangerine Dreams' back (provided by [[User:Smileyface11945|Smileyface11945]] - Thanks!)
Image:sbemail13.PNG|<center>Tangerine Dreams IM</center>
Image:sbemail34.PNG|<center>Tangerine Dreams in underwears (how's it going, Texas?)
Image:sbmail60picture.png|<center>Tangerine Dreams probably creating a massive paradox.
Image:cheatroom.png|<center>Tangerine Dreams back</center>
Image:chicago sample.png|<center>Keep on File Edit Helpin'!
Image:Powered Tangerine.PNG|<center>Poorly drawn</center>
Image:Full Dreams Flash.png|<center>A full Tangerine Dreams
Image:The Cheat HD.png|<center>The HD icon.
Image:Tandy logo.PNG|<center>The Tangerine Dreams manufacturer's logo.
Image:Killerdynamocompy.jpg|<center>[[User:Bubsty|Bubsty's]] computer (Image provided by [[User:Thekillerdynamo|Thekillerdynamo]] - Thanks to you, too!)


</gallery>

HRWiki talk:Guestbooks

Yeltensic — Wed, 25 Jan 2006 14:56:47 GMT

Yeltensic: /* Comments */

==Guestbooks==
Recently, some users have [[#Original discussion|discussed]] the current guestbook situation, and we are formally proposing to get rid of guestbooks. Please note that this decision is still being decided, and is not policy yet. If you wish to give us your opinion on this, then please tell us here.

{| class="messagebox" style="background-color: #ffffc0; text-align: center; border: 1px #f0f080 solid; font-size: 90%; color:darkred;" |
| style="border: 1px #f0f080 solid;" | '''Note: This discussion has grown quite lengthy, but several people have made important points on both sides of the issue, so ''please'' be sure to read all the way to the very end of this thread. You can also use the history page to help keep track of the progress of the discussion.'''
|-
| style="border: 1px #f0f080 solid;" | '''Please be aware that there are several questions to be answered, so don't forget to give an opinon in each of the sections.'''
|} 
===End the practice of guestbooks===
====Support====
# See reasons at the [[#Original discussion|original discussion]]. {{User:Rogue Leader/sig}} 00:11, 22 January 2006 (UTC).
# If it's for the good of the Wiki, guestbooks should go. {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 00:20, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
# — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 00:26, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
# See Rogue Leader's comment. --{{User:Venusy/Sig}} 00:33, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
# I'll go along with this - don't have a strong opinion on guestbooks, personally. {{User:KieferSkunk/sig}} 00:37, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
# See Venusy's comment. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]] 00:38, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
# If it's for the greater good of the wiki, I gotta vote to get rid of 'em. {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 01:00, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
# See reasons at the original discussion --{{User:bkmlb/sig}} 02:51, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
# I want people to read my user page, not just to sign it without knowing what else is there. {{User:Dantheburgerking/sig}} 03:17, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
# Don't really see the point of them. There's nothing a gues book can do that a User talk page can't. -[[User:AtionSong|AtionSong]] 04:00, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
# When it comes to the point that the only reason people come to the Wiki is so they can sign guestbooks, it's time for them to go (especially when people are trying to get a certain amount by a certain date.) I didn't mind guestbooks until Recent Changes had more "User:" edits than it did actual articles. We had this problem with the old wiki; nobody did anything except talk to each other and create fanstuff. This is not a free chatting site for other Homestar Runner fans, this is an encyclopedia. User pages are to make a brief description about yourself, not to have a blockquote with 20-something signatures in it. If you want to talk to other Homestar Runner fans, go create a Myspace or something. {{User:FireBird/sig}} 03:20, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
# See my comment below. {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 06:37, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
# See comment below. {{User:The Chort/sig}} 13:57, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
# They were fun at first, but now it's just taking up space. I would appriciate it if we could let them go. — {{User:Lapper/sig}} 14:29, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
# Ditto Ation. -[[User:Ookelaylay|אוקאלייליי (Ookelaylay)]]
# [[User:Homsad|Homsad]] I agree with the guys at the original discussion. Delete them!
#{{User:Some HSR themed username/sig}} 17:01, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#{{User:Teh_Frossty_One/sig}} 17:50, 22 January 2006 (UTC) Yeah, I'm gonna have to go with Ation here.
#[[User:68.161.144.158|68.161.144.158]] 19:44, 22 January 2006 (UTC) I don't want to shuffle through countless guestbook edits to find vandalism. If you want to compliment somebody, use their talkpage.
#:Hey there, 68.161.144.158. Do you have a user account? If so, you should use it when posting on this page. Thanks. Anonymous votes will not figure much (if at all) into the final tally. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 19:46, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
# I wouldn't mind not having guestbooks (even though I did like signing them, the wiki's better off without them). {{User:Kilroy/sig}} 21:49, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#I have to agree with Kilroy. We are better off without them. {{User:Bluebry muffin/sig}} 21:50, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#They don't bother me, but if they bother other people, let's scrap them. I'm #22! WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!! (that's what we're trying to avoid, right?) {{User:Trey56/sig}} 03:50, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
#They don't show that you like the site, it just shows that you can sign a guestbook. [[User:Nintendogs123|Nintendogs123]] 07:00, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
#{{User:Homestar Coder/sig}} 09:30, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
# {{User:Total Spaceship Guy3/sig}} 10:39, 23 January 2006 (UTC) I stand beside all off you on this. DELETE THEM! WHEEEEEEE!
# For the reasons stated by [[User:FireBird|Firebird]] above. {{User:The Paper/sig}} 14:33, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
# Delort 'em. I only made one because I thought everyone else had one. The arguments to keep them seem to boil down to "hey, I like guestbooks, what's the big deal?" and "they encourage interaction". Seems to me they encourage a kind of interaction that is in conflict with the goals of a good wiki. Baleet 'em. {{User:Bill Martinson/sig}} 18:04, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
#[[User:Mycroft.holmes|Mycroft Holmes]] 20:15, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
# I've never seen the point of guestbooks, shoutboards, and other such features. If people want to holla at someone, let 'em leave a message on the talk page. The site will only get bigger from here anyway, and anything we can do to conserve space is okay in my book. - [[User:Octan|Octan]] 2006-01-23, 15:16 (EST)
# [[User:Powered by The Kate|Powered by The Kate]] 02:53, 25 January 2006 (UTC) I have to say that they should be DELETED! I mean, it's nice to know that people have been to your page, but then they start getting outrageously huge and such. Yeah. And also, if people spend all their time signing guestbooks, they'll never take any time to, say, improve their own user page or make a good article about something. I like what Bill Martinson said, too.
#[[User:BazookaJoe|BazookaJoe]] 02:54, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

====Oppose====
#I want the sweet sweet guestbooks. They let other users know they are there. --{{User:The thing/sig}} 13:48, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:Amost all of the people I know on the Wiki are from my or someone else's guestbook. Guestbooks make relationships! [[User:Bluebry muffin|Bluebry]] 03:11, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#::Guestbooks make relationships, granted, but that's not the only way to make relationships. This H*R knowledge-base wiki is not designed to be a place to hang out and socialize. That's what the forums and [[HRWiki:IRC channel|IRC channel]] are for. The proper way to make relationships on this wiki is to make good edits; eventually people will notice you. One can supplement relationship-building through other venues while editing the wiki the way it was intended. —[[User:BazookaJoe|BazookaJoe]] 03:25, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#Probably not as strong a point, but I like knowing that people have at least visited my page. I don't have a lot to offer on my page and I would actually like some comments. Restricting them to the talk page is probably best. [[User:NFITC1|NFITC1]] 03:39, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:I think that would be a good point ''if'' signing a guestbook meant that someone had actually looked at the page. When it's just a game, however, to see how many you can find and sign, it loses all meaning. Also, notice the little counter down at the bottom (where it says "This page has been accessed ''n'' times"). You can track that number to see how many people are visiting your page. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 04:03, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#::I can't speak for everyone else, but I at least read a page before signing a guest book. I thought that was the whole idea of one: letting the user know '''who it was''' that read the page rather than how many people have. [[User:NFITC1|NFITC1]] 20:00, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:::And we appreciate that you read the pages. Unfortunately, as illustrated by the snippet from the recent changes in the comments section below, those who sign after reading are now a dwindling few. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 20:38, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#Is there anything wrong with guestbooks?--{{User:Benol/sig}} 15:00, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:Benol, you should read the guestbook discussion [[#Original discussion|below]]. {{User:The Chort/sig}} 15:22, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#The guestbooks aren't killing anyone, they're just fun. Why should we all act like a bunch of proper stuck ups on a Homestar Runner fan site? Now, if this were turning into a trend on Wikipedia, that'd be one thing, but this is a wiki on a silly, fun cartoon, and guestbooks are one of my fondest memories of this web site. What's next, will saying things like "ARROW'D!" be banned? Of course, I'm sure everyone is going to hate on me now and diss me like a bunch of geeks and nerds, just like what they did when somebody proposed that they could be saying "Strong Bad paints Marzipan" in [[Strong Bad is a Bad Guy]]. {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}
#:Just for info: ''I'' was the one who proposed that. I don't exactly recall being catcalled about it. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
#::Yeah, I noticed it was you right after I posted that. Well, I remembered everyone dissing you for that. There have been other times that users have been treated like crap for having a different opinion, though, and that wasn't a very good example, I guess. {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}
#:::I agree, this may seem a bit extreme to some, but this part of the ''HRWiki'' family of websites is primarily for [[the facts]]. A more relaxed, "anything goes" atmosphere exists at the Fanstuff Wiki. Though this site isn't Wikipedia, we still strive to emulate their formal style, and attempt to limit most of our work here to building the Knowledge Base. {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 05:26, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#::::Yeah, that's a good point. We should probably be on the look out for more things in Homestar Runner to pick at until they're not even funny anymore. For a more formal atmosphere, how about we all strangle each other as we argue over fhqwhgads? Is she a wiffle ball? Are [http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fhqwhgads Urban Dictionary's] theories true? And only we visiting the Fanstuff Wiki should watch Homestar for fun. Instead, let's try to find Homestar as boring as possible, so that all we can do is analyze crap.
#::::So, who's with me? Are we going to save the guestbooks, or are we going to suck all the life out of the wiki and make pages like [[Strong Bad Saying, "I Mean I (Did Something)"]] until nobody visits besides us? All right, perhaps I went a bit far. Anybody who's offended, no hard feelings. I just want sweet guestbook freedom. {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}
#:::::Uh, ok. Did you even bother to read the reasons why we wish to get rid of guestbooks? We are just trying to make life easier for patrollers. Besides, signing a guestbook does not mean that you are even remotely interested in their page. It just shows that you have a fast mouse and tilde finger. {{User:Rogue Leader/sig}} 06:29, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#::::::Look, I hate to have the whole site against me, especially since I probably won't have as much luck winning you guys back as Strong Bad does, but no, I didn't read the excuse list. Why, because I know it won't affect my opinion on guestbooks. In my experience, I've visited way more talk pages thanks to guestbooks, and I actually check out what's there, so that I can get to know a little more about these peoples before I post. But if you'd like to liberate the site from those ridiculous fan activities, go ahead. I'll keep doing what I'm doing even if it means getting banned! I feel a song, erm, rap coming on...
#::::::(Do not tell me what I can and cannot do when I rock) WHEN I ROCK, WHEN I ROCK...
#::::::DO, DO, DO, '''DO NOT'''! Tell me what I can and cannot do when I rock! Original material my crew nonstop! We're keeping it fly and we'll turn it out, y'all feeling some of that? No doubt! Yes, that's right, I'm keeping my guestbook up no matter what! And maybe some people will respect me for my independence, but I seriously doubt that. {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}
#:::::::1) John Rue is a good man. 2) Breathe. Nothing's happening one way or the other for at least ten days. While persuasive oratory is called for, panic isn't; it's not like guestbooks are dead unless everyone's convinced in the next couple of hours. 3) You're not alone, per se; although I'm far from strongly supporting guestbooks, I don't strongly oppose them. 4) Since time ''isn't'' of the essence, '''do''' take the time to read the rest of this conversation (and also where it [[#Original discussion|started]]). It helps to know what's already been said. 5) Although I'm sure the shock got your fight-or-flight reflexes going, so far no one ''is'' hating on anyone; the conversation so far has been civilized and non-angry. I really hope it stays that way through its course; please help it do so. 6) In closing, I'd just like to make sure it doesn't go unnoticed that a recent edit included the words "That's a big but." —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 07:18, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#::::::::Mr. Katana (or should I call you Mr. X?), Like a wise user once said to me when I was just new to the wiki and didn't have a username: "''sarcasm doesn't exactly work wonders while attempting to argue a point''". And now for the actual reply. We all want to have friends and meet new ones. If this fact was false we wouldn't have such sites as MySpace. Yes, the wiki is a way to make friends, contrary to what some people were saying here, and no, the Fanstuff is not the only place to goof around. But (and that's a big but) making friends through random signatures left on your userpage is not the way to do it. Some userpages told the signers to leave a comment next to their sig. While some posted things like "Thenks for helping me" or "We had fun that one time", alot of them left comments like "Yay! I'm number 27!" or "What? Another guestbook?!" showing that they don't really care about you, your userpage or how good your edits are. It just became a wall intended to be place for art pieces but ended up for ugly graffiti. If you want to make friends, have you thought of going to the chatroom? Having a project, a big one? Think about the wiki as school. An open one where you can make everything. Do you make friends by going to random people with a pen and writing something on their back? Or do you make friends by making something beautiful for all to see? {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 06:58, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:::::::::First off, check what I posted before I was editing conflict'd. And second, too much ugly graffiti? I love too much ugly graffiti! No, seriously, where I come from graffiti is the finest art form around, but that's not really the point. This wiki isn't a school, unless it's the Crazy Go Nuts University, and I couldn't give a crap less whether people care about me or not, as you can plainly see. That's how I met basically everyone here, and that's how I met all my friends here who probably all hate me now. Anyway, even if it is a big waste of time, it's just freaking user pages, not actual articles, and from what I know, these guestbooks haven't caused any tragedy. So there, ban me for my guestbook. It's a Free Country, USA and I will not be silenced! {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}
#::::::::::1) Please see my most recent edit above. 2) Yeah, I've made the school analogy before, but I was just thinking "everything that's ''good'' or has the potential to be good about school, hopefully without the really crappy side effects." I.e. ideally it ''would'' be a place for creativity, spontaneity, and individual expression, plus communal, supportive collaboration, but without getting stuffed into lockers or simply called a dumb***. Hopefully it would ''not'' be a militaristic institution for the mass-producing of servile factory fodder either. 3) I'd be really surprised if anybody on the wiki hates you right now, ''including'' those with the opposite opinion on this argument. Guestbooks ''do'' make friendships (though meaningful talk page edits do so even better), and if the friends mean more to you than the guestbook, then even if guestbooks go the way of MXPX ''and'' the buffalo, you'll have what mattered in the first place. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 07:28, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:::::::::::Yeah, we're on the same page. Or, more accurately, we're on two different pages which are right next to each other, but that counts too. One thing though, I don't think MXPX will be taking the buffalo route any time soon - I just heard them on [http://www.tv.com/users/DarthKatanaX/profile.php?action=show_blog&entry=175628 Burnout Revenge] and all. So, to close it up, I'll halfta go check that out, and hopefully none of my friends will take my flames personally. You might want to check out the Fight for the Guestbooks on my talk page, anyway. {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}
#::::::::::::Not long ago, before guestbooks were popular, we ''still'' managed to communicate, form friendships, plan projects, and so on... through the use of ''talk threads'' and ''IRC chat''. No one is going to be asking you to stop communicating. No one is going to prevent you from reading user pages and posting meaningful comments on the talk pages. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 16:11, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:::::::::::::The advantage of a guestbook, of course, is that it ''solicits'' input from other users, where as an "unadvertised" talk page isn't likely to get unprovoked discussion that often. I ''have'' seen several creative examples of snagging input (input beyond a signature) already in play, though: I mentioned [[User:Has Matt?|Has Matt]]'s list of things Homsar should say; Heimstern's recurring [[User:Heimstern Läufer#German translation fun|German H*R quote]] also springs to mind, as does Tony Stony's [[User:Tony Stony#Me (screenshot from iMirror)|Frankenpic]]. These 1) provoke people to sign, 2) are H*R related and require H*R skillz, and 3) are fun. I think they'd do what guestbooks set out to do, but do so much better. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 20:18, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#I think having a guestbook is a good idea; i would however support the concept of moving them to a subpage. {{User:DJ Teh Cheat/sig}} 16:38, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#Same here. I didn't see an option to vote for that however. That would clear up the problem of confusing the edits with userpage vandalism. {{User:Smileyface11945/sig}} 00:05, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
#I don't want to get rid of my guestbook. They let people know they've arrived. --{{User:The 386/sig}} 17:07, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:Well, all it really lets you know is that they arrived at your guestbook. There's no real reason to expect—or even believe—that the person was on your page any longer than the time it took to type <code><nowiki>#~~~~</nowiki></code>. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 17:13, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#I want 'em, but keep one only and keep 'em friendly, not competitive. {{User:LePorello/sig}} 19:19, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#{{User:Marth 99/sig}} 22:05, 22 January 2006 (UTC) I'm with LePorello. I've never been competitive about these, and besides, like Darth said, they're just fun. I don't feel they are interfering with the wiki.
#:Perhaps you should see the recent changes snippet from earlier today in the comments section below (featuring none other than LePorello's edits). I'm wondering what your (and his) reply would be to my remarks there. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 22:29, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#::That's just one person. Although I agree with his statement, I don't agree with rapid signing. I, like Has Matt, look at a person's page before signing it. I give a short comment and I occasionally get a response as well. That works better that marathon signing. {{User:Marth 99/sig}} 22:39, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:::We wouldn't be having this discussion if it were just one person. When it comes to the point that you need an entire page devoted to a subject just to discuss it, that's indicative of an actual problem. Some of the replies in this section would make it sound like we're want to stop people from saying they like someone's page or from communicating at all. ''This is not the case.'' You would still be perfectly free to post comments in threads on the talk page, just like always. I think that's an even better way to get a response and start a dialogue that could lead to a friendship. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 22:52, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#::::Ooooh. Didn't realize I was being a rapid-signing idiot there. Hence, I now resolve to actually read the user pages '''before''' signing guestbooks. (This doesn't change my vote. I'm still for 'em.) {{User:LePorello/sig}} 23:26, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#"Countless guestbook edits"? I think some of the supporters are exaggerating a bit. {{User:Salty/sig}} 01:33, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
#:Apparently, you do not read recent changes. Recently, there has been a ''huge'' spike in recent user page edits. This is problematic for people who patrol, since this was almost always trolling before guestbooks. {{User:Rogue Leader/sig}} 02:45, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
#Although I don't really care about them, they haven't been bugging me at all. I don't mind if they stay, personally. - {{User:Joshua/sig}} 02:11, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
# I agree with LePorello. Only one, keep em friendly. [[User:TheGreatLogini|TheGreatLogini]] 12:47, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
#I think we should be able to keep our guestbooks if we want to. {{User:Tampo/sig}} 16:48, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
# This is a bittersweet oppose. I have a guestbook and I like it. I like seeing who has read my page. I think I was one of the original 6 guestbooks and my guest book dates back to October. I have even put up cute things to try to get a few certain people **cough cough**JoeyDay, Tom, HomestarCoder, Phlip, Joshua, Jay, The Paper, DorianGray, FireBird **cough cough** to sign it. I wish we can roll back the clock or restirct the creation of new guestbooks (grandfather the old ones in). I think the reason that Userpage edits have skyrocketed is that TBC haven't put a lot out lately and frankly I'm bored. Today I logged in about 4 times (because its a monday) and once I saw that there is no new toon, I check out user pages of my comrads. As I seem to be seriously outnumbered, I will delete mine if it comes to that but I will be sad to see it go. {{User:Invisible_Robot_Fish/sig}} 18:47, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
#I don't see anything wrong with guestbooks. The primary "problem" seems to be that it floods Recent Changes. Increase the number of things that appear in Recent Changes, then. Besides, it's not like other things don't flood Recent Changes (Image templates, category additions, bots, etc). The other problem was that there's an increasing number of edits that have to be checked for vandalism. As the wiki grows, there'll be more edits, user namespace or otherwise. It's not that hard to check edits for vandalism. And that's my six cents. -- {{User:Super_Sam/sig}} 10:47, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
#:Read the page. The primary "problem" is not the recent changes. That's a side effect. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]]
#Keep the guestbooks, they're cool to have. If you're so terribly worried about recent changes, then just move guestbooks to the talkpage or a subpage. And to the people who say that guestbooks should be banned because you think they are pointless, well that's the most retarded thing I've heard lately, if you don't care for them then JUST DON'T USE THEM! And the claims about recent changes flooding sound pretty hyped up, the same kind of crap I hear from the opponents of userboxes on Wikipedia. [[User:Yeltensic|Yeltensic]] 14:31, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
#:Once again, recent changes is just the straw that broke the camel's back. The real problem is that guestbooks have become a mere shell of what they were intended to be. Since there are real and better ways of communicating, we are going to do away with guestbooks in favor of talk threads. On another note, it's not like everybody doesn't know what the word is there that you "censored", and it is not appropriate for this discussion. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 15:02, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
#::OK, It's dot com, I removed it. Happy now? I just get tired of all this crap, all of these people who insist upon removing something others like, just because they disagree. OK, so use talk threads instead if you like, but ''why not just have both''? Seriously, what's wrong with having options? [[User:Yeltensic|Yeltensic]] 17:39, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
#:::Wow, two of my best friends here fighting, better grab some popcorn! No, seriously, when it comes to this one I just halfta "go Switzerland" - that's what my homies call it. So, Yeltensic, good job backing up the guestbooks, and It's dot com, good job keeping this site safe for everyone. There. {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}
#I think that we should keep the guestbooks. I mean, I always enjoy signing a guestbook. It's always fun to look and see who visited your page. I always enjoy it when people sign my page. It just lets you know that there are people that look at your page. I support them. They may be pointless, but they're fun and interesting. I mean, if you got rid of everything pointless, where would I be?--{{User:Homsarroks/sig}} 17:17, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
#One word: "Overregulation". --{{User:Nerd42/sig}} 03:12, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

====Comments====
* The primary objections seem to be 1) that they make userpage vandalism harder to spot, and 2) they make a lot of "empty" edits to check out in general. Stux suggested restricting them to User Talk pages; although it wouldn't solve the second issue it would solve the first. Although I don't like them, I'm not so sure they need to go entirely; they ''do'' have some benefit in community-building, plus banning them even from talk pages seems a little draconian. (If the defense were that they're not wiki-related talk, many of us would be [[User talk:AbdiViklas#Solfège...|guilty]].) Certainly only one per user per lifetime should be allowed, but I'm not ready to vote to end them entirely and everywhere. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 01:24, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*:I think the reason that people are ready to get rid of them entirely is because they are not being used as real guestbooks. A signature on one does not mean that the user page was appreciated or even read. Some users actively campaign (via talk page spam) to try and get more signatures, which just drives up frivolous edits more. This is why I believe they should be eliminated, not just moved. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 01:33, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*I wish there was some way to keep certain guestbooks, such as the ones that were around before they were a fad, or the ones used actually as guestbooks, not as a challenge to see how many signatures they can get by a certain date... But there's not really a way to fairly decide that, is there? {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 01:02, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*:Yeah, it's kind of like when one noisy student ruins the field trip for the whole class. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 01:53, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*::I hear you, Thunderbird. But yes, that ''would'' be quite difficult to justify reasonably: "Your guestbook is appropriately motivated; you can keep it! But ''your'' guestbook is a mercenary guestbook; you can't!" I personally don't find the argument of function compelling (not "proper" guestbooks); frivolous edit and talk page spamming ''are'' concerns, though. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 01:50, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*Since I seem to be saying a lot in defense of guestbooks, I just want to play the other side for a sec.: There's no reason people can't simply link to blogs or personal websites which have guestbooks of their own. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 01:50, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*:Just curious, but why ''are'' you saying so much in the defense of guestbooks? You don't have one. Almost none of the people with whom you collaborate most often have one. Have you ever formed a meaningful friendship through one? I myself have signed a few guestbooks (back when that's what they were), but nothing substantial came of it. Again, I'm just curious. :) — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 16:11, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*::Right; not only do I not have one, but I've never bothered to sign one that I can remember. It's not ''just'' that I'm playing Devil's Advocate, arguing for them since there seemed to be few voices for them at first; I do actually feel that they don't necessarily need to go. Mind, I ''definitely'' think at the least "guestbook reform" is necessary, and would like to see their form and function not only preserved but improved; I just have misgivings about a cold-turkey crackdown. I'm certainly not going to be broken up if they go, since I don't think they're doing as much good or meaning as much as their owners perceive them to, but I'd like to keep the "anything goes in your userspace ''except''" list no longer than necessary. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 20:08, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*If this thing didn't evolve to be a fad I would even fight for the right to keep them. But now they just litter the recent changes page. This days are the first time I had to use the MainSpace filter to a actually ''see'' the edits {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 06:38, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*Finally! I am so tired of this stupid fad! You sign one guestbook, another million pop up. They serve no purpose to the wiki and, frankly, they're now really unoriginal. Are we just owning and signing guestbooks because everyone else is? I mean, when it comes to taste, everyone just follows each other like sheep. Why else are the music charts here in England full of crap? {{User:The Chort/sig}} 13:57, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*:By the way, if you haven't liked them, there's always been an avenue of dissent: not to sign them. I've never quite figured out the cases where somebody signs a guestbook and simultaneously complains about it. Seems to me by signing you'd just be helping them spread. (I know, there can be social obligation, etc. Just saying.) —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 20:08, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*::Ok, I confess. Like many other users, I just sign guestbooks to increase the number of links to ''my'' user page! Yes, I know. It's a form of self-advertising. Stick your signature everywhere and more people visit your user page. Besides, all I put is "My autograph? Sure!", giving no feedback whatsoever. I use talk pages to do that. I should probably be locked away for such crimes. Anyway, the main thing is that these points alone probably show why we should get rid of them. {{User:The Chort/sig}} 16:37, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
*just because you consider it a fad, it's a USER PAGE. as in, the USER gets to decide what to do with it. and if they want a guestbook, it's not up for the wiki to decide. this sounds like a meaningless rule designed to give more control to a humble majority. "I don't like jumproping! nobody else can jumprope from now on!"{{User:DJ Teh Cheat/sig}} 16:39, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*:Actually, user page control is not absolute. We do give quite a bit of leeway as to what you can put on a user page, but there are [[HRWiki:User_space#What_should_I_avoid.3F|certain restrictions]]. If the community decides (and not by just a simple majority) that it's best if we eliminate guestbooks, then we will. But we're not taking this decision lightly—It has simply reached a boiling point. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 16:49, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*::Right; despite what I ''just'' said a few edits above about "anything goes in your userspace except," it's ''not'' your private property, and it ''is'' for the wiki to do decide. As is stated somewhere in the restrictions It's dot com just linked to, you can find unfettered freedom of personal expression simply by linking to an external site. You can ''even'' host a guestbook there and link to it! —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 20:08, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*Is there a way to keep any user X's guestbook at "User:X/guestbook" and modify code somewhere to make it so that no changes made to to pages of the form "User:X/guestbook" would appear in the Recent changes log? (I understand this opens the door for unchecked vandalism.) {{User:Trey56/sig}} 17:46, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*:Well, it would be possible from a technical standpoint, but I'm not very comfortable with random users' edits not showing up in the recent changes. Besides, the recent changes flood is just an annoying ''symptom'' of the underlying cause (that guestbooks aren't being used as intended). — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 18:17, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
<blockquote class="plainlinks">
*([http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=User:Darthvader66&curid=13738&diff=244680&oldid=243943 diff]) ([http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=User:Darthvader66&curid=13738&action=history hist]) . . [[User:Darthvader66]]; 18:24 . . [[User:LePorello|LePorello]] ([[User talk:LePorello|Talk]]) ([[User:Darthvader66#Guest_Book|→]]Guest Book)
*([http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=User:Nintendostar_Runner&curid=17721&diff=244679&oldid=244633 diff]) ([http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=User:Nintendostar_Runner&curid=17721&action=history hist]) . . [[User:Nintendostar Runner]]; 18:23 . . [[User:LePorello|LePorello]] ([[User talk:LePorello|Talk]]) ([[User:Nintendostar_Runner#Guestbook|→]]Guestbook)
*([http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=User:Gnome_of_Fury&curid=17483&diff=244678&oldid=244623 diff]) ([http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=User:Gnome_of_Fury&curid=17483&action=history hist]) . . [[User:Gnome of Fury]]; 18:22 . . [[User:LePorello|LePorello]] ([[User talk:LePorello|Talk]]) ([[User:Gnome_of_Fury#Surprise.2C_surprise.2C_it.27s_another_frickin.27_guestbook.21|→]]Surprise, surprise, it's another frickin' guestbook!)
</blockquote>
*These three consecutive edits illustrate the supporters' positions precisely: If you were a speed reader, you ''might'' could get through all three of those pages in less than a minute each, but would you have enjoyed the experience at all? I think not. Those who would read a user page are no longer signing guestbooks, and those who now sign guestbooks are just clogging up the recent changes. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 19:52, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*:I have to say that I am not a person that goes on a random guestbook signing spree, subsequently clogging up recent changes. If I find a user page which I haven't read, I read it, if I am interested and have time, and if that user has a guestbook, I sign it as well. I do not just look for the guestbook on a page and see how many I can sign in a minute. However, I know I can't speak for the rest of the Wiki, which is why we are having this conversation in the first place. You have to admit, whether you like it or not, guestbooks have affected this Wiki in a huge way; some think it's affected it for the good, some think for the bad. I know that a lot of friends have been made through guestbooks, and that they can be utilized to function in a positive fashion, but I also have to admit that they have caused a lot of problems in the Wiki as well. I am not a strong supporter or opposer of the idea of taking away guestbooks. It does seem kinda totalitarian and 1984-ish to ban guestbooks from the Wiki, but on the other hand, this Wiki's main purpose is not to have fun, but to document anthing and everything Homestar Runner. While there are a lot of ways we can have fun in the process of doing that, it seems as if guestbooks have ventured beyond the realm of a fun, innocent little thing that shows how valued you are to a way to get attention and compete to be the first one to sign. {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 21:10, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*::i agree with the beginning of what has matt just said. not everyone just goes on for a guestbook, and if you think it clogs up the recent changes, '''deal with it.''' that is just the way it goes. i know lots of people have made friends, i would too if i felt like being an actual user. guestbooks are good. [[User:69.162.201.219|69.162.201.219]] 00:43, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
*:::We ''have'' been dealing with it... for a while now. If they weren't being abused I would happily continue dealing with it. But since other, more productive ways to get to know each other can take their place (like talk threads), we'd rather stop dealing with it because we're ''tired'' of dealing with it. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 00:52, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
*::::true, i must admit. it's just that guestbooks seem like, almost....icebreakers. you are not going to go to a talk page and type, "want to be my friend?" instead, you will have signatures that you will go to, and their you will laugh at the stuff they say. then you will eventually just leave notes on their talk pages, and it will be great. [[User:69.162.201.219|69.162.201.219]] 01:00, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
* To be honest, I don't think the "Recent Changes Flooding" argument is a particularly strong one. Whenever I look at Recent Changes, the two things that catch my eye a lot more than Guestbook entries, even frequent ones, are the occasional flood of <nowiki>{{web-screenshot}}</nowiki> and similar edits that go on a lot of images all at once, and when users make a whole bunch of minor edits to their sigs, their user pages, etc., all at once. (I'm guilty of doing this myself now and then.) Very rarely do I see guestbooks as causing a lot of spam in the Recent Changes list, and they personally don't bother me. {{User:KieferSkunk/sig}} 05:15, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
*:The web-screenshot floods are a necessary evil for us not getting sued (and I'm not getting into that now) and will stop the moment the project is done. If users would just learn to use the "Show preview" button before all those minor changes it wouldn't flood the RC page. The only thing that is left flooding is the guestbooks, and we are discussing those right now. Please don't try to change the subject or pointing the finger on other stuff. {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 07:25, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
*::Besides, KieferSkunk, the point I keep trying to make is that the recent changes flood is just indicative of a bigger problem. But never mind that for a second... You can easily hide image edits by switching the namespace to "Image" and pressing "Invert selection". (Also, once we finally get all the images tagged, we won't have those floods anymore.) I sometimes use the same trick with the "User" namespace just so I can see the "real" edits, but this isn't a viable option in the long run for patrollers because vandalism would go completely unchecked. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 10:56, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
*:::I realize that, and I'm not trying to change the subject or point fingers. I'm just pointing out that, to me personally, the Guestbook-related edits don't bother me - they seem to take up much less room in Recent Changes (at least whenever I look at them) than other edits, and I just sorta tune them out most of the time. I don't see it as being as significant a problem as others do, apparently. {{User:KieferSkunk/sig}} 20:13, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
*Has it occurred to anyone that since a guestbook generally has its own subheading on a userpage, the word "guestbook" or some form thereof automatically appears in the edit summary, meaning that they can easily be distinguished from userpage vandalism on recent changes? And that's really the whole case against them, the recent changes problem, is it not? [[User:Yeltensic|Yeltensic]] [[User talk:Yeltensic|Save the guestbooks]] 19:06, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
*:No, as Dot com explained in response to your comment above, the recent changes problem is NOT the primary problem. The primary problem is that guestbooks are not being used reasonably - there's too many instances of "I need to sign as many guestbooks as possible / get as many sigs as possible in the shortest period of time." {{User:Homestar Coder/sig}} 19:09, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
*:Perhaps I should clarify. What I meant is that the recent changes problem is the only ''valid'' concern. The fact that you dislike them, or the way that they are use, is not a valid concern as far as grounds for banning them. For instance, I don't like rap music, does that mean it should be illegal? No, of course not, because other people like it. [[User:Yeltensic|Yeltensic]] [[User talk:Yeltensic|Save the guestbooks]] 21:10, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
*::That argument would hold if we were trying to ban guestbooks from the Internet as a whole. This is the Homestar Runner Wiki, and we have lots and lots of policy as to what's allowed on pages. For example, you're only allowed two personal images. You're not allowed to put a blog on your userpage. You're not allowed to post fanstuff in the knowledge base. You're not allowed to say R-rated things. Nobody would stop you from creating an external guestbook and linking to it from your userpage. "Other people like it" is not a complete argument. Admin'ing on the H*RWiki has taught me that lots and lots of people like to go from page to page and replace the character names with "POOP LOL" but nobody thinks we should allow that. {{User:Homestar Coder/sig}} 21:24, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
*::Um, yeah, but POOP LOL harms articles, guestbooks don't do that. [[User:Yeltensic|Yeltensic]] [[User talk:Yeltensic|Save the guestbooks]] 14:56, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
*::Yeltensic, I find it ironic that by blindly signing as many guestbooks as you can find [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=Yeltensic&limit=28&go=first as fast as you can] you are essentially proving the supporters' two main points. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 19:53, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
*:::Good job, you just completely missed what I was doing. I was a) trying to fit in as many self-ads as possible before guestbooks are banned, and b) protesting this laughably absurd policy proposal. As I've wondered on my userpage, is there some conspiracy going on that spans two sites, Wikipedia and HRWiki? It's odd that the absurd "guestbook crisis" here was made up around the same time as the "userbox crisis" over there. [[User:Yeltensic|Yeltensic]] [[User talk:Yeltensic|Save the guestbooks]] 21:10, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
*::::What, because they're going to be banned within the next ten minutes? You've got plenty of time for that. If you're a Wikipedia regular, then perhaps you've heard of not disrupting the wiki to make a point. It seems that in the time you've spent griping about this you could have actually ''read'' those user pages in an effort to get to know the people. '''(By the way, nothing prevents anyone from picking users from the recent changes list, reading their user pages, and then leaving meaningful feedback on the talk pages.)''' This just goes to show that guestbooks do not promote anything more than their own perpetuation. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 21:31, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
*::::Well, how familiar are you with my offline life? I have exams this week, and I might not have all week to sign them left and right. And I did actually read the pages, but later I'll go and read them more closely, by finding them in my contribs. [[User:Yeltensic|Yeltensic]] [[User talk:Yeltensic|Save the guestbooks]] 14:56, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
*:::::Sorry if it seems like I'm picking on Yeltensic, but: [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=Special%3AContributions&offset=0&limit=50&target=Yeltensic&namespace=0 Yeltensic's main namespace edits] [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=Special%3AContributions&offset=0&limit=50&target=Yeltensic&namespace=1 Yeltensic's main namespace talk page edits]. No offense, but this is the sort of behavior we try to discourage - users who sign up to do nothing but edit userpages that never contribute to the actual H*RWiki pages, the reason we are all here in the first place. We're seeing too many users who sign up only or mainly to sign guestbooks / collect sigs in their own guestbook. There are lots of webpages devoted to that - try Myspace. {{User:Homestar Coder/sig}} 22:16, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
*::::::Well if I ever were going to get around to editing HRWiki pages, I definitely won't now, with you acting like that. Methinks I'll just stick to editing my userpage, signing guestbooks, avoiding you, all of those fun things. Good-bye and have a nice day. [[User:Yeltensic|Yeltensic]] [[User talk:Yeltensic|Save the guestbooks]] 03:18, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
*::::::Anyway, by joining lovely little discussions like this to defend guestbooks, I free up time for other users to edit articles instead of doing this. There are other ways to participate than editing articles. [[User:Yeltensic|Yeltensic]] [[User talk:Yeltensic|Save the guestbooks]] 14:56, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
*A teeny little bit of Devil's advocate here: So, there's a part of me that wonders if this fad would just go away if we left it alone. I find that, with the exception of those who are protesting this proposed ban, people are becoming less interested in guestbooks (notice how many people deleted their guestbooks right about the time Bubsty left). Maybe I haven't been looking at the right times, though. I guess I just wanted to get it out there that it ''might'' not be necessary to carry out this ban. Like I said, though, this is largely Devil's advocate; I'm not really against getting rid of guestbooks. Thanks for putting up with my rambling. {{User:Heimstern Läufer/sig}} 20:03, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
*:Then again, I'm just realizing now that the disapperance of some guestbooks (mostly by good users) means that a greater portion are of the existing guestbooks are frivolous. So, maybe that's a good reason to go ahead with the ban. {{User:Heimstern Läufer/sig}} 20:09, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
*I, like Heimstern, have been somewhat abstaining from voting one way or another in this issue. There are probably more people who are somewhat ambivalent to the issue. I, myself don't have a guestbook, but I have signed many in my day, as I've mentioned before. I think the hardest thing to swallow is having to part with something that been attached to and they pride themselves in (be it for frivolous reasons or not). When I first saw them, I thought it was a great idea. I didn't know it had become the nuisance it is now until i started reading this dicussion. Personally, I still feel like eliminating them altogether seems like a rather extreme solution to the problem. Of course, like Heimstern said, many good users have voluntarily removed their guestbooks and what remains are the seemingly fanatical ones. It seems that a tug-of-war has arised over the desire for some users to have as much freedom over their userspace as possible, versus the need for this wiki to grow as a community and in order to do so it must have some reasonable structure to it. The willingness of many established members to give up their guestbooks is a clear sign that there is a problem. I think if the remaining guestbook users can show and exercise some restraint over their guestbook presentation and signing (i.e. having only one guestbook, not racing over signatures, etc), the general guestbook atmosphere can change to where a compromise can be reached and instead of banning guestbooks altogether, a set of reasonable guidelines are established on proper guestbook etiquette. --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 23:39, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
*:You'd think so, wouldn't you? You'd also think that guestbooks wouldn't have grown to the problem they are now, but they have. You'd think that now that this issue is front and center, users wouldn't ''still'' be racing across the wiki playing guestbook hunt, but they are. Guestbooks are neither are a longstanding feature of the wiki nor something irreplaceable, and they need to go. The culture developing from the racing guestbook hunters seems to center entirely on the user namespace, something that is at odds with the purposes of this project. Ironically, though these users must spend a lot of time on user pages, retention of the info there cannot possibly be very high when the total time spent on any one page is less than a minute. There are better ways to communicate than that. For more than a year we got by without them and we will get by once they're gone. You might note that you and I have collaborated on several projects and know each other pretty well (relatively speaking) without once ever having signed a guestbook on the other's page. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 01:44, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
*i don't think guestbooks do much on either side. the recent changes thing doesn't matter much. also, people have the right not read a page. really, in my opinion, this whole page doesn't matter. {{User:Seriously/sig}} 23:44, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
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===If the consensus is to end the practice, then what?===
====Delete them altogether====
#— [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 00:26, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#{{User:Rogue Leader/sig}} 00:29, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]] 00:38, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#{{User:FireBird/sig}} 04:15, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:I'm having a hard time understanding this position. All the arguments against guestbooks, it seems to me, center around what happens when people ''edit'' them (clogs recent changes, etc.). Aside from the possibility that having them around might incite new ones (which the "closed" tag idea [[HRWiki talk:Standards#Other|below]] ought to curtail), what exactly are they hurting? Even if deletion is necessary, is there a reason to go in and delete them by force with a "the notice has been up" defense rather than starting by asking the user to do so? It seems so... [[Wikipedia:Vogon|Vogon]]. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 08:19, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#::Keep in mind that almost nothing is actually ever deleted from the wiki. If people want to visit their old guestbook, it will still be in the history. You ask what they're hurting, and several people have said that they clog the recent changes. While I agree with this, it isn't the basis of my opposition to them because I think it is a weak argument and is only a side-effect of the underlying problem: namely, at some point in the not-too-distant past, guestbooks reached a critical mass and exploded. When that happened, they lost all meaning and became a game. In other words, if guestbooks were currently being used as they were intended to be used, then I would fight tooth and nail to keep them and ''to heck'' with the annoyance of the patrollers. ''But they're not,'' and I have no reasonable expectation that simply ''moving'' them would change the current behavior even one iota. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 16:28, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:::Oops—I wasn't very clear there. I meant what would "dormant" guestbooks hurt—i.e. something like closed STUFFs, with a little notice saying "This is from before we instituted our '''guestbook standard'''; please do not edit." (Elaboration [[#Other|below]] on how this could work.) Yeah, I think we're all pretty clear on what guestbooks currently hurt. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 20:52, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#[[User:Homsad|Homsad]] Delete them!
#{{User:Some HSR themed username/sig}} 17:04, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#{{User:Gafaddict/sig}} 19:49, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#{{User:Dantheburgerking/sig}} 01:28, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
#{{User:Homestar Coder/sig}} 09:30, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
#{{User:Total Spaceship Guy3/sig}} 10:35, 23 January 2006 (UTC) Burn them all!
#For the very clear reasons [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] stated above. {{User:The Paper/sig}} 15:21, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
#{{User:The Chort/sig}} 16:43, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
#{{User:Bill Martinson/sig}} 18:37, 23 January 2006 (UTC) — for the many reasons It's dot com has tirelessly explained (and, sadly, had to reiterate); the other proposals just aren't workable due to overhead, judgement calls, etc. The purpose of this website is not to provide a meeting place for people who are more interested in making new chat-buddies than in contributing to the encyclopedia. Let's get over our own egos and do what's best for the wiki.
#[[User:Mycroft.holmes|Mycroft Holmes]] 20:14, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
#{{User:Pertmywert/sig}} 20:57, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

====Move existing ones to subpages and lock them====
#{{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 00:28, 22 January 2006 (UTC) I think that if someone really ''really'' values their guestbook, they should have the option of moving it to a subpage and keeping it there for the sake of documenting history.
#:Couldn't they copy it to their own computer? Also, they can still see it in their page history. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 00:49, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#::I'm just saying they should have the option. By the way, I'm saving my guestbook to my computer.
#:::I think we should fight subpage [[Wikipedia:Creep (project management)|creep]] as much as possible. If we disallow guestbooks, then those subpages would no longer serve the project. But if someone just wants to see one, all they would need to do is look at an old version of their page. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 01:33, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#::::There are other reasons for wanting to keep one than sentimental value. Guestbooks—like user pages in general—are excusable exercises in vanity. The whole point of one is so people can see how many people like you, or at least have acknowledged you. Though this may not be a particularly noble motivation, it's hardly unreasonable. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 01:42, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:::::But again, it's not like the comments would disappear from the histories. Why add to the already growing problem of subpages? Talk page discussions are just as good as (nay, better than) guestbook entries, because actual thought goes into leaving messages. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 01:53, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#[[User:Bluebry muffin|Bluebry]] 03:20, 22 January 2006 (UTC) As said above - Most people I met were from guestbooks.
#:<nowiki>*</nowiki>sigh* Once more, you would have a chance to copy the info to your computer, or look at it in your page history. (Broken record = me) — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 03:29, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#::I know, but I want to meet more people, not ones from January. [[User:Bluebry muffin|Bluebry]] 18:42, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:::Have you tried looking around the wiki yourself? Like the recent changes page or talk pages? {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 18:56, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#For someone who knows what it's like to have something that took a long time taken from him, I'm voting about sub-paging and locking. At least give them that. {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 07:00, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#Guestbooks were and always will be a major part of HRwiki history (not to mention all these arguements). I at least think that we should leave them on the Wiki. Taking them off would be like TBC disbanding Teen Girl Squad: sure, it used to be minor, but it became a big piece of the big enchilada. {{User:Teh_Frossty_One/sig}} 17:58, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:<nowiki>*</nowiki>sigh again* Is anybody reading the previous discussion? They won't disappear from the histories. Hardly anything ever does around here. As for being a major part of our history, I would tend to disagree with you there. They're a fad. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 18:17, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#::I ''was'' reading the above arguements, thank you. But my point is that fads can make history books too. What about mullets? They were pretty big way back when. Now, I agree with the fact that they're not the biggest part of history, but maybe just have a little about them on the history page or something. Or keep some examples, like the ones that revolutionized guestbooks. Not trying to sound like a speech here, but, well, you know. {{User:Teh_Frossty_One/sig}} 18:27, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:::Well, what goes on the [[HRWiki:A History|history]] page is outside the scope of this thread (although whatever the outcome of this discussion is should definitely be noted there). Any links on that page can just as easily point to old versions of a page as anything else. By the way, by "revolutionized", do you mean "made a perfectly fine practice into a problem that then had to be dealt with"? — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 18:34, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#::::Your point has seeped into my brain. But what if people took a screenshot of their guestbook in its final state, hosted it on a site, and provided a link to it on their userspace? Personally, I think that's a good idea for (a)anyone who wants to preserve their guestbook and (b)anyone who still wants the world to see it. That way, it's not really cluttering the wiki. {{User:Teh_Frossty_One/sig}} 18:40, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:::::I suppose you could do that. Couldn't you also just put in a link to an old version of the page, [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=User:It%27s_dot_com&oldid=221198 kinda like this]? — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 18:55, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#::::::I guess it would be the choice of the user, then. Pages like this would load faster than an image (especially if you had dial-up like me). {{User:Teh_Frossty_One/sig}} 18:57, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:::::::Heck, as long as you're hosting things externally and linking to them, you can keep your guestbook rolling (as I've mentioned somewhere else on this sprawling page). —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 19:51, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#::::::::i agree with abdiviklas. {{User:Seriously/sig}} 14:12, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

====Other====
* '''Restrict them to talk pages; one per user; and require input beyond signatures.''' They could even be thematic; [[User:Has Matt?|Has Matt]]'s list of "Things I Wish Homsar Would Say" would be a good example (except in this scenario it would be on his talk page). The goal would be meaningful statements that would keep all the good aspects of guestbooks (recognition, friendship-building) without the qualities that started this discussion. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 07:39, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 07:39, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#:But who will decide what's meaningful and what's not? Some will argue that "YA!!! IM #143! =^^=" is quite meaningful. And if some kind of standard is reached, who will remove the bad stuff from the user's page? The user? Sysop? Having something you wrote removed can triger alot of flame wars. {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 07:45, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#::Yeah, good questions. First: once we're talking about talk pages, I for one would be cool with pretty much anything. As I've hinted earlier, some might not find discussions of the [[User talk:AbdiViklas#...And the Absoluteness of Absolute Pitch|absoluteness of absolute pitch]] the most ''meaningful'' talk page content. But I think the policy could be stated fairly clearly: don't just leave your name; try to say something substantive that will make the user happy or tell him or her something about you. The fact that your #143 only makes ''you'' happy, and isn't a particularly intrinsic personal quality. Secondly: Whoa now, yeah. ''If'' this conversation results in a change in policy, then I feel like it should be implemented by leaving the owner a note asking to do it him or herself. He or she can then either delete or move and convert it (though the vast majority would need to just start from scratch—which isn't so bad, really). Rather than moving to subpages and locking, my proposal would be to '''add a tag to existing guestbooks telling other users not to add to them, and then enforce it with warnings'''. It's not like we're dealing with vandalism on the Main Page here; once somebody accidentally signs a "closed" guestbook and is warned, they're not going to continue. If they do, they need to be banned anyway. But closed STUFFs, for instance, survive just fine without locking. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 07:58, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#:::That's a decent idea, but it definitely achieves rigamarole status. I vote for keeping it the way it is, but like I say, good one anyway. {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}
*#::::Oh-ho-ho-ho! (devilish laugh) Sorry about that, I just felt like this place needed a random Strong Bad quote. Okay, back on task. Why don't we just put something in the standards page that says something like, "Although guestbooks in the Wiki are discouraged, you are allowed to have ''one'' guestbook on a subpage or on your talk page." Just another idea I'm throwing out here. You'll probably find some problems with this idea one way or another, I just felt it needed to be mentioned. {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 14:39, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#:::::I would not have a problem with comments restricted to talk pages, but why would an organized guestbook be necessary there? First of all, there's nothing that prevents someone from starting a thread: "Hey, I read ''X'' on your page and you rock!" I have done that myself several times. Second, as we have clearly seen, there seems to be something wrong with a structured list with the label "Guestbook" that causes certain people to go into a frenzy, which completely negates the whole reason to have people sign it (i.e. to indicate that the user page was read and appreciated). — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 16:11, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#::::::How about this. If the guest book bannination is accepted. how about we give people with guest books 2-3 days to move to a sub page and have a sysop lock it. If they fail to do this, I think we should just delete the guest books that are left. And Has Matt?, I kinda think that that defeats the purpose of this vote. {{User:Rogue Leader/sig}} 16:17, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#:::::::Yeah, we're way past the point of simply ''discouraging'' them. Also, if we permitted them on subpages at all, then we'd might as well just move them to a subpage for them. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 16:25, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#::::::::My vote's with AbdiViklas's suggestion. {{User:ACupOfCoffee/sig}} 19:42, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
*#I go for this option i'm voting for, but here's an idea: why not have a global hrwiki guestbook, for those of us that like to sign guestbooks? We lock all guestbooks except for this page where someone can sign their name in for the entire wiki? Strange I know but it just occurred to me. Another q: if guestbooks are totally deleted, yes they remain in the page's history... but what about guestbook subpages? (like the one that USED to be User:Kilroy/Guestbook)? Their histories are lost. Just like that last page I mentioned. --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 20:25, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
*#:Even though it might look deleted, it's not. The only things that are really deleted when it says deleted are images. If someone needed the code from one of those subpages (for example, to archive locally), it could be undeleted long enough to take care of it. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 20:38, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
*#::Ohhhh! Tight paaants! That is good to know! :) --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 23:32, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

* '''Start a one-day race for everyone with a guestbook to amass the most names. At the end of the day, everyone's guestbooks are deleted, and the winner gets a nickel (via PayPal).'''
*#{{User:Trey56/sig}} 03:46, 23 January 2006 (UTC) Everybody wins: guestbook proponents get one last day of unbridled mayhem, and guestbook opponents get eternal relief from their patrolling woes.
*#:Better yet, winner gets $100. Supplied by Trey56 of course. :-P {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 04:10, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
*#::i think that's a great idea. i don't even have a guestbook, but i would like to sign some. [[User:Thatkidyoualllove|Thatkidyoualllove]] 13:21, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

<center><hr width=70%></center>

===If the consensus is to end the practice and delete them altogether, when should that happen?===
*'''About ten days after the consensus is reached here, they should be deleted. A notice should be put up on the Recent Changes page and at the top of watchlists.''' — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 00:26, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#— [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 00:26, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#:And the notices have been put up. {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 02:25, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#::(Notices of the current discussion, that is, not of deletion.) —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 02:29, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#:::Right. Up there I meant that similar notices would be put up saying something like "Now would be a good time to archive that locally before it's gone" or something. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 02:29, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#::::Do you think you could put a notice on the Main Page as well, like we did for donations and NSMC? {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 02:56, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#:::::The thinking is probably that this is an issue that doesn't really concern IPs; if someone's a user they'll probably see it either on recent changes or when they log in (it's on the "successful login" page). —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 03:04, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#::::::Yeah, this isn't something we need to bother people with who are just here to read. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 03:26, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*# [[User:Homsad|Homsad]] 17:00, 22 January 2006
*#Yeah, what counts as a guestbook? I mean, I have things like Favorite Sbemail, and the occasional poll. [[User:Bluebry muffin|Bluebry]] 18:47, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#:Bluebry, polls are different than guestbooks. Many people have guestbooks, while not as many people have polls. Polls won't last forever, and aren't as annoying as guestbooks. Most people leave their guestbooks up forever. Polls are temporary. Now, people with ''two'' guesbooks, on the other hand, are more of our focus. *wink wink* {{User:Teh_Frossty_One/sig}} 18:51, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#::Yeah, Bluebry; see my comment near the end of the long [[#Oppose|Oppose]] section advocating the practice of Healthy Non-Guestbook Interaction Practices. Making good Peer-to-Talk page choices. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 20:56, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#::Yeah, um, sorry for having TWO guestbooks. Ummm, yeah. [[User:Bluebry muffin|Bluebry]] 18:54, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#:::well, i think that it should be done in two weeks. that leaves users with plentiful time to get as much sigantures as possible.
*#::::One week is plenty. {{User:Rogue Leader/sig}} 21:15, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

== Original discussion ==
''This disscussion was originally found in [[HRWiki:Da Basement]]''

Guestbooks started out as kinda cute. Then they became a fad. Now it seems that everybody's user pages are being edited by other people. I remember a time when such a thing was vandalism nine times out of ten. Having guestbooks is really becoming a nuisance for recent changes. I think we should do away with them. I don't even think moving them to a subpage is a good idea, because it seems most people just go around blindly signing them, without actually reading the page in question. I would prefer, if someone had read my user page, that they just made some kind of meaningful comment on my talk page. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 04:24, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
:I am going to have to say that I agree. At the very least, all current guestbooks need to be moved to a subpage. Guestbooks now are just for signing them, not to show that someone reads a guestbook owners userpage. {{User:Rogue Leader/sig}} 04:27, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

::I concur with Ben on all counts. -- [[User:Tom|Tom]] 04:30, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

:::Yessir. It's Dot Com hit the nail on the head. {{User:FireBird/sig}} 04:33, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

::::Yeah, you guys are probably right. I have to admit, I'm also guilty of owning a [[User:Thunderbird L17/Guestbook|guestbook]], but if that's what it takes to do away with this pointless fad, I'll give a vote towards getting rid of all guestbooks, including my own. {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 04:50, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

:::::I like signing guestbooks. I don't have one but I like signing them. About 75% of the time I do end up reading the page in question too! I hope I'm not the exception. Perhaps they can be restricted to the user's talk page? --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 05:02, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

:::::'''EDIT CONFLICT:'''Agreed with everybody. Signing a guestbook doesn't say that you like that page, or that you enjoyed what they wrote. I agree with Dot com, leave a message with some thought if you want to say that you liked a user page, not put your sig on their userpage. I don't think guestbooks are ''bad'', they're just pointless.--{{User:bkmlb/sig}} 05:03, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

::::::When we come to a point when (and I don't want to name names) there are two or three different guestbooks on the same userpage for no reason at all, or that there's a "guestbook race" where users race to see who could sign it first, or even when a user picks up a deadline for getting X signatures before a certian date, it's time to get rid of that fad. I hate seeing users who have more then 500 userpage and usertalk edits, but less then 20 mainspace edits. {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 07:37, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

:::::::Stux: That wouldn't make a difference. It's not about where it is, it's the fact that it clutters Recent Changes up and makes patrolling edits a nightmare. {{User:FireBird/sig}} 07:41, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
::::::::I agree, although guilty of signing a few. It's become not only a fad, but a competition. Who can sign the most guestbooks, who can sign the fastest, whose is longer, who can reach the most by such and such date--even who [[User:Bluebry muffin|has the most]]. I personally wouldn't mind seeing them go. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
:::::::::That page made me agree with getting rid of them. In fact, I'm gonna go get rid of mine right now. {{User:ACupOfCoffee/sig}} 03:50, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
::::::::::''{sigh}'' It's sad it got to this point. It's really kind of like [[The Geddup Noise]], isn't it? We've gone from "Guestbooks used to be cool!" to "Corporate Guestbooks still suck". I hate the thought of them being banned, but it probably has gotten to that point. I'll support it. {{User:Heimstern Läufer/sig}} 04:01, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
:::::::::::Guestbooks are dying with their original creator, [[User:Bubsty|Bubsty]]. I'm taking mine out too. {{User:Dantheburgerking/sig}} 04:13, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
:::::::::::I'm not sure exactly who started the fad, but my money's on [[User:Smileyface11945|Smileyface11945]]. Both [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=User:Smileyface11945&oldid=116185 his] and [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=User:Thunderbird_L17/Guestbook&oldid=171056 my] guestbooks predate that of [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=User:Bubsty&oldid=198810 Bubsty]'s. Still, I think Bubsty ammased the most sigs, and I belive it was his' that influenced the inordanant influx of guestbooks. {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 05:24, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
:His is gone. [[User:24.18.208.18|24.18.208.18]] 23:44, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
::Also, Bubsty never started guestbooks. He said he got it from RJMT somewhere. [[User:24.18.208.18|24.18.208.18]] 23:48, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
:::Thanks, I [[HRWiki:Da Basement#noted|just meantioned]] that. His' is [[User:Bubsty/guestbook|still around]], just not really linked to much. And [[User:RJMT|RJMT]]'s guestbook only goes back to [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=User:RJMT&oldid=194351 Novermber 9th], which still post-dates both mine and Smiley's. {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 00:38, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
::::I think [http://old.hrwiki.org/index.php?page=IPADDRESSMAN this] is an interesting point... --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
:::::Heh. That ''is'' interesting. But guestbooks clearly died out at some point (perhaps when we switched to MediaWiki), and have only recently resurged. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 01:02, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
::::::Yeah. I'm not sure if anybody remembered his or not to start the MediaWiki generation of Guestbooks, but that's beside the point. We're getting a bit off topic now (mostly my fault). The question isn't who started them, it's should we keep them, and/or what should we do about them? {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 01:05, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
:I agree with Dot com. (I know, I left, but I was finishing this killerdynamo and admin-hating thing up...) About 2-3 weeks ago they weren't ''that'' big of a deal, but now it's gotten kinda... insane. Especially if everyone starts getting [[User:Bluebry muffin|more then one]]. They started out being cute, but ''now'' they're just plain annoying. (I feel kinda bad though, seeing as a lot of users see mine and think "Oh cool! I want one!"). I'm taking mine off. {{User:Bubsty/sig}} 05:47, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
:::::I think we should keep our own guestbook if we want to. {{User:Tampo/sig}} 14:41, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

::::::May I remind you Tampo, that the discussion, as mentioned below is going on in [[#Guestbooks|above]]. --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 16:42, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
:::::::I just put my comment here because my computer couldn't load that page. {{User:Tampo/sig}} 16:46, 23 January 2006 (UTC)



''This is an archive of the original discussion. Please put new comments [[#Guestbooks|above]].''

User talk:Will

Yeltensic — Wed, 25 Jan 2006 14:44:37 GMT

Yeltensic: /* Weird */

== Welcome! ==
Welcome to the '''Homestar Runner Wiki!''' I wanted to extend a personal welcome, since I believe strongly that a [[Wikipedia:Wiki|Wiki]] should be a democratic and non-threatening place where everyone feels like they can contribute. Unfortunately it can be very frustrating at first if you make changes that are ignored or changed back by other users, but if so I encourage you to hang in there; as you get a feel for the way things are done around here you'll feel more at home. That was my experience, anyway!

If you need any help, feel free to ask anyone on the [[HRWiki:Welcoming committee#Members|welcoming committee]] (like [[User_talk:AbdiViklas|me]]!). You can also post questions on the [[HRWiki talk:FAQ|FAQ talk page]].

Here are some tips to get you started:
* If you need general information, editing tips, or answers to frequently asked questions, check out the [[Help:Contents|help]] page.
* Before you do any significant editing, be sure to familiarize yourself with our [[HRWiki:Standards|wiki standards]].
* Read up on the rules and guidelines for your [[hRWiki:User space|user page]]. What you're reading right now, by the way, is the "Talk:" page that goes with your user page. It's a good way to communicate directly with specific users. The best way to respond, though, is on the same user page where the conversation was started. E.g. if you have a question, go to my [[User_talk:AbdiViklas|user talk page]] and edit it, then watch my page (via [[Special:Recentchanges|Recent changes]]) for a response.
* If you're not sure what you can do to help out, head over to [[HRWiki:The Stick|The Stick]].
* If you're looking for more community interaction, you can also register over at our [http://forum.hrwiki.org forum] and get More Community Interaction Than You Or Your Grandmother Can Handle!
* Above all, '''be bold''' and have fun!

Feel free to delete this message when you're done reading it. (In general, it's frowned on to delete other people's input on talk pages, but this entry is just here to be helpful. When it's done being helpful, I guarantee you won't hurt my feelings by ditching it!)

Sincerely, 
[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] and [[HRWiki:Welcoming committee#Members|the rest of the welcoming committee]] (00:53, 8 November 2005 (UTC))

== page ==

make a user page! it's fun--{{User:Benol/sig}} 21:49, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

==recent changes==
:Hi there seriously. Thanks for joinin the recent changes patrol. Anyway, I just wanted to tell you that I made a link to your user page (which does not exist... yet), and a datestamp, so that people can identify you a bit better. A suggestion: If you type four of these: <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> it automaticly creates a link to your user page and a datestamp. Try it out! {{User:Bubsty/sig}} 04:11, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
Um, how do you join the recent changes patrol? I went to the page but got nothing.--[[User:Trendy Totebag|Trendy Totebag]] 00:43, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
:Easy. Just put your name at the bottom of the list. {{User:Bubsty/sig}} 00:19, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

== Sig Help ==

Hey Seriously, just thought I'd drop you a quick line to give you some help on signing. :) To sign your name in a STUFF vote, a Talk page or a Guestbook, type three tildes as follows: <nowiki>~~~</nowiki> - this signs your name and creates a link to your User page.

You can also type four tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) to sign your name and leave the current date - this is appropriate for Talk pages and Guestbooks, but not for STUFF.

Just thought I'd help. :) {{User:KieferSkunk/sig}} 17:51, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

i rock.

==hi again==
:Hi again Seriously. Just to tell you, that template you were trying to put on [[Jerome]] is <nowiki>{{tobedeleted}}</nowiki>. However, unless you have a good reason to delete it, I think it's ok the way it is. {{User:Bubsty/sig}} 23:26, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
::Hey Seriously, [[Your Hair is Messed Up]] is an actual feature; it's just from the Everything Else DVD, which a lot of people don't have yet. That's probably why it hasn't been transcribed yet. We can't delete a legit feature like that, so I'm going to remove the template. Keep on tranglin'. {{User:Heimstern Läufer/sig}} 23:50, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

woah, sorry. i didn't know that. i will edit right now. [[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 23:58, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

:Don't worry; no harm done. I've already fixed it. In the future, you may want to read the talk page of an article if you think an article needs deleting; people may already have discussed this. That was the case for the article in question in this case. Oh, and you should sign your comments. You can do that by typing <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> after your comments. Talk atcha later! {{User:Heimstern Läufer/sig}} 23:55, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

thanks a lot. you are very nice for helping me learn how to do editing properly. i guess i should put my trigger-happy edit sign away for a while. [[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 23:58, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
:I was like that too when I was new... just ask [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]]. {{User:Bubsty/sig}} 00:44, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

== I am bored ==
will someone put more on my talk page? how can i have fun on such an awesome website if i don't get messages n' stuff? [[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 01:34, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

:If you're bored you can always work on your userpage. You can also look around on other User's pages, and find Guestbooks, Quizzes, easter eggs, and other fun things. You can browse the [[Secret Pages]], you never know what you'll find there. Then there's opening a [[Special:Random|random]] wiki page, and fixing it up. You can patroll the [[Special:Recent Changes|recent changes]], and revert vandals, welcome new users, and help people who post questions on talk pages. Then there's the [[HRWiki:IRC channel|chat channel]], the [http://forum.hrwiki.org/ forum], other user's talk pages, and of course, the [http://www.homestarrunner.com/ official site]. There's all sorts of things to do, if you use your [[dreamail|imagination]]! {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 01:52, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

::well, i did, actually. you can read my userpage if you want. however, one question about vandals: if what they say is bad, then how do you fix it? and i have posted messages on a lot of STUFF and talk pages and noone has answered them. wah!

anyway, thanks. i like it when awesome people who know about this website (unlike me) set the standards for influencing new users. [[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 01:58, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

:I don't quite understand your question about vandals. You mean what do you do if somebody changes a page for the worst? Well you can always edit it yourself after, to fix what they did. If it's just badly worded or something, just editing it is fine. If they add something obviously wrong, but innocent, then you can [[HRWiki:WikiTroll#How to revert a page|revert it]], and if it's obviously blatantly vandalism, add it to [[HRWiki:WikiTroll#Offenders|the list of offenders]] or let a sysop know. They'll block them. {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 02:04, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

sweet, thanks. i just tried it out. whoever the heck johnny is, your deletion of a goof in fall float parade is destroyed!!!!!

yeah, i get excited when i find this stuff on the wiki. [[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 02:07, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

:Well just make sure your edit is productive. If you looked in the comment of Jonny's edit, he had created that sentance, and then deleted it a minute later because it was already meantioned in remarks. Your re-adding has already been reverted by another user. Most edits are productive, so always check the comment before just assuming it's vandalism or counterproductive. Glad to see you taking an interest in recent changes though. {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 02:22, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

things go a mile a minute around here! i just don't get it! it's like when mulder from the x-files is fighting to retrieve evidence from a broken train car in a navajo reservation, but fails spectacularly!

if you know what episode that's from, you get a gold star. [[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 02:27, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

well, i'm
signing off now. seeya later, thunderbird! [[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 02:29, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

:Sorry, I've never seen the X-Files before. Seya later. {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 02:49, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

== Others' talk pages ==

Seriously, Ciberdude may have done some trollish things, but him blanking his own talk page is OK, now that the warnings are outdated. Please leave it alone. {{User:Homestar Coder/sig}} 15:29, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

ok. sorry. [[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 15:31, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

i shall revert it.[[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 15:31, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

== reverting my edits ==
that is not trolling, ciberdude. if you are unfamiliar with the concept of trolling, then you should look back at the things you've done. [[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 15:43, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

im really interested to know how that isnt trolling

im really interested to know why you keep ruining my talk page, ciberdude. and by the way, get some grammar lessons. [[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 15:48, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

:grammar is for nerds.

::Grammar is for people who wish to communicate in a clear, intelligent manner. {{User:Homestar Coder/sig}} 15:53, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

i am logging off for now. if i see five messages from you when i get back, you are going down. [[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 15:49, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

:Seriously, I didn't warn you about editing other people's user talk pages just for kicks. It can indeed be considered trolling. Other actions that can be considered trolling include telling someone to get grammar lessons and telling them that they are "going down." Consider this a second warning - further actions of the same nature will result in a temporary ban. {{User:Homestar Coder/sig}} 15:52, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

:: i belive mesing with the troll page is trolling too, i've been baned for that you know.

ok, i'm leaving now, i do have a life to get to.
see ya soon [[User:Ciberdude444|me]]

sorry. i have a lot to learn. i've been worse than ciberdude444 has. sorry. [[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 18:07, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
:Hey, learning's what a wiki's about! (You didn't think by "knowledge base" it meant only what's coded in the pages, did you?) Thanks for doing it gracefully. And you know, if you're really interested in improving the wiki, an apology to Ciberdude would probably be a nice move; he seemed pretty ticked. (Yes, disproportionately and problematically so, but it's good to make the first move.) Again, the wiki isn't just binary code on a server; it's interpersonal relationships too, and patching them up is a direct way of contributing to the upkeep of the wiki. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 18:21, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

thanks for the meaningless stereotypical psychological nonsense, abdi (for once, that's not sarcastic.) i have already signed his guestbook, so i think everythings in order. [[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 18:24, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
:Hm. I'm sad to see that you think signing a guestbook makes everything okay; given the two edits that followed that, everything is ''not'' okay between the two of you. And what I said above ''does'' have a meaning, actually; let me see if I can say it with fewer big words: users getting along is not just a nice thing; it actually matters to the wiki. The wiki's a community, and when you damage the community you damage the wiki—in other words, true trolling (worse, really, than vandalism). On the other hand, when you make the community better you improve the wiki (i.e. gnoming of the best kind). Bottom line: It would be great if you and Ciberdude get around to just co-existing peacefully while nursing grudges and just don't speak to each other. It would be a '''lot''' better, though, if one of you swallowed your pride, forgave the other's pettiness (by now this applies to both of you), and made the first move for peace (instead of keeping on insulting each other in little ways). And yes, I mean apologizing even though by now both of you could apologize to the other for exactly the same thing.
:Of course all this is a suggestion; I can't force you to do anything. (Unless the resentment that you guys are keeping on low flares up and somebody gets banned.) But I mean it when I say the relationships between users are part of the wiki, and if you leave one damaged you're missing an opportunity to improve the wiki. If that sounds meaningless, try reading it a few more times until you find a meaning. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 18:52, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

you said more on mine! meanie! kidding. read the thing i said on ciber's talk page. i did it before you even wote this, but thanks anyway. i was acting foolish, arrogant, and a ton of other words that really all mean the same thing: BAD. [[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 19:12, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
:Coo'. Now don't beat yourself up about it; lol! That was quite an awesome 180°; you seem like you'll make a great welcomer. By the way, I fixed some stuff on your guestbook; the problem actually wasn't with the number of 4s, but with which side of the "|" the username was on. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 19:25, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

seriously? that's hilarious! sometimes we get so beat up about problems we don't even understand, it's like the most ironic thing in the world. [[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 19:29, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

:Thanks for listening, Seriously! {{User:Homestar Coder/sig}} 19:35, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

when i saw what you wrote on ciber;s talk page, i thought it had to come to an end. [[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 19:36, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

== pretty awesome quotes ==

Hey there, Seriously. Just dropping by to tell you something. I see you added a quote to the "Pretty Awesome Quotes" section on [[User:Has Matt?|my userpage]]. While that is one of the funniest quotes I've ever heard, and I'm going to keep it there for that reason, the way it works is I have to ''find'' the quote and then ''I'' put it on there. Just letting you know so you won't do it again. Feel free to add quotes to the "Things I Wish Homsar Would Say" section though! {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 16:54, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

sorry. didn't know. but man, some of those quotes are hilarious. [[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 18:06, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

== guestbook ==
ciberdude: i notice from your talk page that you are deleting my comment on your guestbook. you have my permission. [[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 22:30, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

== Caution ==

This has gone on long enough. Do not edit the user page or the user talk page of Ciberdude444 ever again. Pretend that he does not exist. Do not reply to his comments on other talk pages. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 00:16, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

what do you mean? sure, i was bad to him a while ago, but i haven't done anything since. abdiviklas helped me patch things up. you can ask him , i swear! [[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 00:49, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
:I think he was telling you this because of the discussion that is/was going on [[User talk:Ciberdude444|here]]. {{User:Bubsty/sig}} 00:51, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

guys, i am sorry. i welcomed him to the wiki. i followed abdiviklas's advice. i even gave him permission to delete my signing on the guestbook. i want to start a clean slate! he just deleted the message that i put on his talk page saying that i apologized. i want to get out of this whole thing, but not if i'm left with a reputation of being as bad as him! [[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 00:57, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

bubsty, Dot com, i consider you guys some of the best people we have here. not because i want to suck up, but because you care enough to realize the importance of this matter. [[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 00:57, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

:In regard to why I posted here on your page: I am merely being up-front. I have warned him never to edit your user space again. You should likewise never edit his again, ''for any reason at all''. If you have a problem, you can bring it to me or another of the sysops, but if you follow these instructions, there should be no problems. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 01:01, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

but one question: how do i contact the sysops? what if you guys don't reach your talk pages soon enough? [[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 01:02, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
:Then you can probably do two things:
::1. Wait, and hope that one comes on soon.
::2. If it's a situation that doesn't need sysop powers, (Blocking, deleting, etc.), you can ask a frequent user who knows how things work around here. (Like me!).
:Usually, if you leave a message on someones talk page, they'll get to it soon. Depends on how frequent they are. {{User:Bubsty/sig}} 01:07, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
::'''EDIT CONFLICT:''' For example, if you were to contact me, I'd respond pretty quickly, for example. Probably in 5 minutes or less. I'm pretty much always here, and I know a thing or two... I'm no sysop, but I get along pretty well... --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
thanks. so..........how do i block people? [[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 01:08, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
:You need to be a sysop to block people. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]

thanks. [[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 01:13, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

:So, that should help you understand a little how things work. Also realize that we have lots of people watching out for vandalism, and that it usually gets reverted ''very'' quickly as result. Also, the sysops are very good about watching for it and knowing when they need to block people to stop them. {{User:Heimstern Läufer/sig}} 01:19, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

==sysop nominations ==
because of the comments on the main page talk page, i have realized there is no chance of anyone being a sysop soon. however, in case there ever is, what qualities do you need to be one? [[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 14:27, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

:Here's my [[User talk:Homestar Coder/MayAug2005#I have a big query.|standard answer]], courtesy of [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]]. {{User:Homestar Coder/sig}} 16:41, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

== I must say, This is Quite expansive. ==

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Hope u like the expansion, Willis. --[[User:Trendy Totebag|Trendy Totebag]] 21:01, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

== I must say, This is Quite expansive. ==

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Hope u like the expansion, Willis. --[[User:Trendy Totebag|Trendy Totebag]] 21:01, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

you are quite lucky i don't ask someone to ban you, aidan.
[[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 23:45, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
I thought u would like it Willis! Sorry, revert it if u want.--[[User:Trendy Totebag|Trendy Totebag]] 20:22, 6 January 2006 (U
I see that you did not revert it. Stow it willis.

==ADVERTISING!!!!! ==
if anyone wonders why i talk mean to trendy totebag and talk about blocking him, it's cause he is from my school. i persued him to go on this website. [[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 00:46, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
:Persuaded Willis, persuaded.--[[User:Trendy Totebag|Trendy Totebag]] 18:04, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
::(Though I wouldn't put it past him to "pursue," either. :) —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 18:44, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
isn't that great? [[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 00:46, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

== is my reputation killed? ==
because of my previous trolling and skirmish with ciberdude, i don't think i am very respected by fellow wikiers. apart from trendy totebag, does anyone think my reputation will ever be repaired? [[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 04:44, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
:Reputations can ALWAYS be repaired. I mean, [[User:Thunderbird L17|Thunderbird]] was a troll, wasn't he? Look what happened to him: now he's a sysop. There's always hope. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]

yes, but he just deleted some stuff on peasant's quest. i made personal attacks to a user. [[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 04:53, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
:There's an old adage I'm reminded of: forgive and forget. What happened in the past is in the past. Focus on the future, and you're sure to become a fairly respected user. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]

true. double true. [[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 04:59, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
Word of wisdom from Me Part 1: The Awakening
Will, however much you hate certain users will not affect your reputation if you turn your life around and follow the light. But not too far. Just don't use the profane and obscene language that is so much a part of you, it seems to emanate from your mouth, and you will be fine. I'm so nominating you for sysop/admin.--[[User:Trendy Totebag|Trendy Totebag]] 18:49, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
:I used to be a troll, and a really stupid person. But now I've been forgiven by ''most'' people. {{User:Bubsty/sig}} 00:23, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

true. double true. here's lyrics from my fave snl skit of all time. [[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 00:52, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

lazy sunday, wake up in the late afternoon. i call up parnell to see just how he's doin.
hello? parn, just how are you doin? are you thinkin what i'm thinking? NARNIA! man, it's happenin! [[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 00:52, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

== Wiki Standards ==

Hi there Seriously. I advise that you review the [[HRWiki:Standards]] and the [[MetaWikipedia:Help:Contents|MediaWiki User's Guide]] before you create any more articles. -- [[User:Tom|Tom]] 21:24, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

yeah, thanks for the redirect. i won't create any more pages. [[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 21:24, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

==You want to be a Cool Person?==
Here's the deal. You really need to '''stand out''' in order to make it to my list. But in a positive way. I've noticed that you have been a troller in the past and that's not a good way to go (see BANNED FOR LIFE list). Trendy T. is a good kid and I'm glad he recognized me as one of those who helped him. Most of the people on my list are people who helped me or appreciate me. However, one thing bugs me. In the words of Strong Bad, "What ever happened to capitalization? It used to be so cool." -[[User:Marth 99|Marth 99]] 21:47, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

yeah, i'm not trying to do what the thing did. i don't want that. i'm just kidding around, you know? oh, and thanks for fixing that link. i am so stupid. [[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 21:52, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

==Space. The Final Indent.==
By the way, I noticed your edit [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=Talk:Timeline&diff=233990&oldid=233909 here]. Notice how it's got a gray box around it, and extends off the right edge of the page instead of having a line break? Both of those happen because your line started with a blank space (or more than one). It can be kind of annoying in longer comments because they just go "to the right and straight on til morning." If the spaces were because you were trying to indent your comment as you see folks doing in replies, use ":"s instead. Check it out:
:Here's one!
::Here's two!
:::Here's three! You get the drill! (click edit and take a look at the code to check 'em out.) —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 09:17, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

::::yeah, i do this all the time. i guess i jsut forgot. [[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 14:06, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
:::::oh, now i get it. i won't do it again. i try to make my comments stand out, y'know? that's why i usually do it. [[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 14:08, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

== !You Won The First Official Platypus Award!==
:It is my pleasure to inform you, User:Seriously, that you have won Trendy Totebag's first official Platypus Award! Trendy Totebag owes the fact that he is on hrwiki to you. Scincerely,
--[[User:Trendy Totebag|Trendy Totebag]]'s oficcial messenger boy/kid.[[Image:platypusaward.jpg]]--[[User:Trendy Totebag|Trendy Totebag]] 23:06, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

== scincerely?! is that the best spelling you can do? ==
thanks a lot for the trophy. um, have you heard about [[User: Bubsty]]? it's a bit sad, isn't it? [[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 01:51, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

== Warning ==

What part of "Do not edit the user page or the user talk page of Ciberdude444 ever again" did you not understand? Then I see you post this message: "this offending garbage before i alert a sysop." ''Before'' you alert a sysop? That is directly against what you were instructed to do. On top of that, I find that Trendy Totebag made [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=User%3ACiberdude444&diff=230962&oldid=229427 this edit], which also is trolling. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 02:01, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

:look, sorry. i just felt alarmed. i wanted it to be over, and he does not realize that. trendy totebag had heard about my fight with ciberdude444, but he misunderstood, thinking that it had not been resolved. i did not pursuade him to do that edit. i promise. block me if you want. i deserve it more than trendy or ciber. [[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 02:05, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

::I will not be blocking you this time, but if my instructions are ignored again, I won't hesitate to do so. I have also warned Trendy Totebag and Ciberdude444, so there is no need for you to do so. I repeat: Leave each other alone. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 06:21, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
:::Hey! By the way, I left a [[User talk:It's dot com#help.21|comment]] on It's dot com's talk page. Although it was technically replying to M. Totebag, it would probably be relevant for you too. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 21:46, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
::::See also my comments on my talk page. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 22:50, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

== Me??? Cool??? ==

Why do you think I am cool???--{{User:Benol/sig}} 15:31, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

because you at least kinda welcomed me when i first came here by saying "make a user page, it's fun!" also i read your juser page and you seemed pretty cool. you don't always have to be cool to me in order to be on my cool people list. [[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 15:33, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

== sig ==
can anyone create me a sig? i never undertand the directions. if you need my password i could give it to you, just make it cool. note: these are the people i'd like most to help me: thunderbird, abdiviklas, its dot com, gnome o' fury, and teh frossty one. [[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 20:06, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
:I'm flattered that you'd ask me to help. First of all, though, I really, really would ''never'' give my password to anybody! (Besides which, no one would actually need it to make your sig. You'd have to go into "preferences" yourself, but that isn't too hard.) Secondly, I'm afraid I don't really have time. Somebody else might very well (maybe you could arange some kind of trade; you see stuff like that often, with users with drawing skills making pics for others in exchange for fanfics and so on), or better yet, take a shot at doing it yourself; I'll bet you'll find it easier than it looks. One other thing: some brand-new guidelines about what a sig should be have been posted at [[HRWiki:Signature]]. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 20:13, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
::the problem is, i still have no idea whatsoever. believe me, i have tried, and failed spectacularly. i really don't know what the crap i am doing. [[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 20:17, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
:::How does this look for a sig base?
:::<blockquote>[[User:Seriously|Seriously]] ([[User talk:Seriously|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Seriously|contribs]])</blockquote>
:::That OK? --{{User:Venusy/Sig}}
::::great, but could you make it a different color? it's fine as is, but if it was orange, that would be great. [[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 20:32, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
:::::also, when i did 4 tildes on my userpage, it just came out bolded. is that for a reason? [[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 20:35, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

::If you link to the same page you are currently on, the link will become bold. See: [[User talk:Seriously]]. {{User:FireBird/sig}} 20:37, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

:::SWEET!!! so, how do i get it in action? [[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 20:48, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
::::Start by clicking "edit" on this section; find the code Venusy left and copy it. Go to [[User:Seriously/sig]], delete what's there already, and paste it. Finally, go to your [[Special:Preferences|Preferences]], put "<nowiki>{{User:Username/sig}}</nowiki>" in the "Your nickname (for signatures)" box, and check the checkbox for "Raw signatures." Then just use <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> as usual, except now it will leave a trail of day-glo customization! —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 20:58, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

thanks for my cool new sig, guys! {{User:Seriously/sig}} 22:11, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

== WikiTroll ==

Seriously, you're not really leaving Ciberdude alone as per Dot com's instructions if you address him in your edit summaries. Let other people deal with his WikiTroll edits. I assure you, we will. {{User:Heimstern Läufer/sig}} 22:54, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
:You were instructed ''not'' to reply to him, and to let the sysops handle it. You were given plenty of warnings, but instead you got into an edit war where you [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=HRWiki:WikiTroll&diff=240405&oldid=240402 directly addressed Ciberdude444], which is ''exactly'' what you were instructed not to do. See you in a week. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 00:33, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
::i hate to rub it in, but isn't it kind of ironic that this was all done on wikitroll? [[User:69.162.201.219|69.162.201.219]] 00:33, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
:::It's like raieeaaain on your wedding day. But rubbing it in isn't particularly helpful or necessary. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 06:50, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

==Dot com==

Well I never said anything personal against him or anything like that. He has been a little less than pleasant toward me, just cos I happen to strongly disagree with him, so I'm not exactly going to be all cheery with him. Oh well. [[User:Yeltensic|Yeltensic]] [[User talk:Yeltensic|Save the guestbooks]] 03:25, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

==Weird==
don't you think its rather odd that trendy totebag hasn't been on while you were baned? --anon
:Yes it is odd (I don't know who that is, but I can figure this out as I go along), but if you're implying that that means trendy and seriously are the same person, remember that nothing would have stopped him/her from logging in as trendy. If that isn't what you had in mind, then forget I said anything. [[User:Yeltensic|Yeltensic]] [[User talk:Yeltensic|Save the guestbooks]] 14:44, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

User talk:Will

Yeltensic — Wed, 25 Jan 2006 03:25:18 GMT

Yeltensic:

HRWiki talk:Guestbooks

Yeltensic — Wed, 25 Jan 2006 03:18:24 GMT

Yeltensic: /* Comments */

==Guestbooks==
Recently, some users have [[#Original discussion|discussed]] the current guestbook situation, and we are formally proposing to get rid of guestbooks. Please note that this decision is still being decided, and is not policy yet. If you wish to give us your opinion on this, then please tell us here.

{| class="messagebox" style="background-color: #ffffc0; text-align: center; border: 1px #f0f080 solid; font-size: 90%; color:darkred;" |
| style="border: 1px #f0f080 solid;" | '''Note: This discussion has grown quite lengthy, but several people have made important points on both sides of the issue, so ''please'' be sure to read all the way to the very end of this thread. You can also use the history page to help keep track of the progress of the discussion.'''
|-
| style="border: 1px #f0f080 solid;" | '''Please be aware that there are several questions to be answered, so don't forget to give an opinon in each of the sections.'''
|} 
===End the practice of guestbooks===
====Support====
# See reasons at the [[#Original discussion|original discussion]]. {{User:Rogue Leader/sig}} 00:11, 22 January 2006 (UTC).
# If it's for the good of the Wiki, guestbooks should go. {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 00:20, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
# — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 00:26, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
# See Rogue Leader's comment. --{{User:Venusy/Sig}} 00:33, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
# I'll go along with this - don't have a strong opinion on guestbooks, personally. {{User:KieferSkunk/sig}} 00:37, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
# See Venusy's comment. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]] 00:38, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
# If it's for the greater good of the wiki, I gotta vote to get rid of 'em. {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 01:00, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
# See reasons at the original discussion --{{User:bkmlb/sig}} 02:51, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
# I want people to read my user page, not just to sign it without knowing what else is there. {{User:Dantheburgerking/sig}} 03:17, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
# Don't really see the point of them. There's nothing a gues book can do that a User talk page can't. -[[User:AtionSong|AtionSong]] 04:00, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
# When it comes to the point that the only reason people come to the Wiki is so they can sign guestbooks, it's time for them to go (especially when people are trying to get a certain amount by a certain date.) I didn't mind guestbooks until Recent Changes had more "User:" edits than it did actual articles. We had this problem with the old wiki; nobody did anything except talk to each other and create fanstuff. This is not a free chatting site for other Homestar Runner fans, this is an encyclopedia. User pages are to make a brief description about yourself, not to have a blockquote with 20-something signatures in it. If you want to talk to other Homestar Runner fans, go create a Myspace or something. {{User:FireBird/sig}} 03:20, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
# See my comment below. {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 06:37, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
# See comment below. {{User:The Chort/sig}} 13:57, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
# They were fun at first, but now it's just taking up space. I would appriciate it if we could let them go. — {{User:Lapper/sig}} 14:29, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
# Ditto Ation. -[[User:Ookelaylay|אוקאלייליי (Ookelaylay)]]
# [[User:Homsad|Homsad]] I agree with the guys at the original discussion. Delete them!
#{{User:Some HSR themed username/sig}} 17:01, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#{{User:Teh_Frossty_One/sig}} 17:50, 22 January 2006 (UTC) Yeah, I'm gonna have to go with Ation here.
#[[User:68.161.144.158|68.161.144.158]] 19:44, 22 January 2006 (UTC) I don't want to shuffle through countless guestbook edits to find vandalism. If you want to compliment somebody, use their talkpage.
#:Hey there, 68.161.144.158. Do you have a user account? If so, you should use it when posting on this page. Thanks. Anonymous votes will not figure much (if at all) into the final tally. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 19:46, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
# I wouldn't mind not having guestbooks (even though I did like signing them, the wiki's better off without them). {{User:Kilroy/sig}} 21:49, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#I have to agree with Kilroy. We are better off without them. {{User:Bluebry muffin/sig}} 21:50, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#They don't bother me, but if they bother other people, let's scrap them. I'm #22! WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!! (that's what we're trying to avoid, right?) {{User:Trey56/sig}} 03:50, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
#They don't show that you like the site, it just shows that you can sign a guestbook. [[User:Nintendogs123|Nintendogs123]] 07:00, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
#{{User:Homestar Coder/sig}} 09:30, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
# {{User:Total Spaceship Guy3/sig}} 10:39, 23 January 2006 (UTC) I stand beside all off you on this. DELETE THEM! WHEEEEEEE!
# For the reasons stated by [[User:FireBird|Firebird]] above. {{User:The Paper/sig}} 14:33, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
# Delort 'em. I only made one because I thought everyone else had one. The arguments to keep them seem to boil down to "hey, I like guestbooks, what's the big deal?" and "they encourage interaction". Seems to me they encourage a kind of interaction that is in conflict with the goals of a good wiki. Baleet 'em. {{User:Bill Martinson/sig}} 18:04, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
#[[User:Mycroft.holmes|Mycroft Holmes]] 20:15, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
# I've never seen the point of guestbooks, shoutboards, and other such features. If people want to holla at someone, let 'em leave a message on the talk page. The site will only get bigger from here anyway, and anything we can do to conserve space is okay in my book. - [[User:Octan|Octan]] 2006-01-23, 15:16 (EST)
# [[User:Powered by The Kate|Powered by The Kate]] 02:53, 25 January 2006 (UTC) I have to say that they should be DELETED! I mean, it's nice to know that people have been to your page, but then they start getting outrageously huge and such. Yeah. And also, if people spend all their time signing guestbooks, they'll never take any time to, say, improve their own user page or make a good article about something. I like what Bill Martinson said, too.
#[[User:BazookaJoe|BazookaJoe]] 02:54, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

====Oppose====
#I want the sweet sweet guestbooks. They let other users know they are there. --{{User:The thing/sig}} 13:48, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:Amost all of the people I know on the Wiki are from my or someone else's guestbook. Guestbooks make relationships! [[User:Bluebry muffin|Bluebry]] 03:11, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#::Guestbooks make relationships, granted, but that's not the only way to make relationships. This H*R knowledge-base wiki is not designed to be a place to hang out and socialize. That's what the forums and [[HRWiki:IRC channel|IRC channel]] are for. The proper way to make relationships on this wiki is to make good edits; eventually people will notice you. One can supplement relationship-building through other venues while editing the wiki the way it was intended. —[[User:BazookaJoe|BazookaJoe]] 03:25, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#Probably not as strong a point, but I like knowing that people have at least visited my page. I don't have a lot to offer on my page and I would actually like some comments. Restricting them to the talk page is probably best. [[User:NFITC1|NFITC1]] 03:39, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:I think that would be a good point ''if'' signing a guestbook meant that someone had actually looked at the page. When it's just a game, however, to see how many you can find and sign, it loses all meaning. Also, notice the little counter down at the bottom (where it says "This page has been accessed ''n'' times"). You can track that number to see how many people are visiting your page. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 04:03, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#::I can't speak for everyone else, but I at least read a page before signing a guest book. I thought that was the whole idea of one: letting the user know '''who it was''' that read the page rather than how many people have. [[User:NFITC1|NFITC1]] 20:00, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:::And we appreciate that you read the pages. Unfortunately, as illustrated by the snippet from the recent changes in the comments section below, those who sign after reading are now a dwindling few. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 20:38, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#Is there anything wrong with guestbooks?--{{User:Benol/sig}} 15:00, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:Benol, you should read the guestbook discussion [[#Original discussion|below]]. {{User:The Chort/sig}} 15:22, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#The guestbooks aren't killing anyone, they're just fun. Why should we all act like a bunch of proper stuck ups on a Homestar Runner fan site? Now, if this were turning into a trend on Wikipedia, that'd be one thing, but this is a wiki on a silly, fun cartoon, and guestbooks are one of my fondest memories of this web site. What's next, will saying things like "ARROW'D!" be banned? Of course, I'm sure everyone is going to hate on me now and diss me like a bunch of geeks and nerds, just like what they did when somebody proposed that they could be saying "Strong Bad paints Marzipan" in [[Strong Bad is a Bad Guy]]. {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}
#:Just for info: ''I'' was the one who proposed that. I don't exactly recall being catcalled about it. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
#::Yeah, I noticed it was you right after I posted that. Well, I remembered everyone dissing you for that. There have been other times that users have been treated like crap for having a different opinion, though, and that wasn't a very good example, I guess. {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}
#:::I agree, this may seem a bit extreme to some, but this part of the ''HRWiki'' family of websites is primarily for [[the facts]]. A more relaxed, "anything goes" atmosphere exists at the Fanstuff Wiki. Though this site isn't Wikipedia, we still strive to emulate their formal style, and attempt to limit most of our work here to building the Knowledge Base. {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 05:26, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#::::Yeah, that's a good point. We should probably be on the look out for more things in Homestar Runner to pick at until they're not even funny anymore. For a more formal atmosphere, how about we all strangle each other as we argue over fhqwhgads? Is she a wiffle ball? Are [http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fhqwhgads Urban Dictionary's] theories true? And only we visiting the Fanstuff Wiki should watch Homestar for fun. Instead, let's try to find Homestar as boring as possible, so that all we can do is analyze crap.
#::::So, who's with me? Are we going to save the guestbooks, or are we going to suck all the life out of the wiki and make pages like [[Strong Bad Saying, "I Mean I (Did Something)"]] until nobody visits besides us? All right, perhaps I went a bit far. Anybody who's offended, no hard feelings. I just want sweet guestbook freedom. {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}
#:::::Uh, ok. Did you even bother to read the reasons why we wish to get rid of guestbooks? We are just trying to make life easier for patrollers. Besides, signing a guestbook does not mean that you are even remotely interested in their page. It just shows that you have a fast mouse and tilde finger. {{User:Rogue Leader/sig}} 06:29, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#::::::Look, I hate to have the whole site against me, especially since I probably won't have as much luck winning you guys back as Strong Bad does, but no, I didn't read the excuse list. Why, because I know it won't affect my opinion on guestbooks. In my experience, I've visited way more talk pages thanks to guestbooks, and I actually check out what's there, so that I can get to know a little more about these peoples before I post. But if you'd like to liberate the site from those ridiculous fan activities, go ahead. I'll keep doing what I'm doing even if it means getting banned! I feel a song, erm, rap coming on...
#::::::(Do not tell me what I can and cannot do when I rock) WHEN I ROCK, WHEN I ROCK...
#::::::DO, DO, DO, '''DO NOT'''! Tell me what I can and cannot do when I rock! Original material my crew nonstop! We're keeping it fly and we'll turn it out, y'all feeling some of that? No doubt! Yes, that's right, I'm keeping my guestbook up no matter what! And maybe some people will respect me for my independence, but I seriously doubt that. {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}
#:::::::1) John Rue is a good man. 2) Breathe. Nothing's happening one way or the other for at least ten days. While persuasive oratory is called for, panic isn't; it's not like guestbooks are dead unless everyone's convinced in the next couple of hours. 3) You're not alone, per se; although I'm far from strongly supporting guestbooks, I don't strongly oppose them. 4) Since time ''isn't'' of the essence, '''do''' take the time to read the rest of this conversation (and also where it [[#Original discussion|started]]). It helps to know what's already been said. 5) Although I'm sure the shock got your fight-or-flight reflexes going, so far no one ''is'' hating on anyone; the conversation so far has been civilized and non-angry. I really hope it stays that way through its course; please help it do so. 6) In closing, I'd just like to make sure it doesn't go unnoticed that a recent edit included the words "That's a big but." —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 07:18, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#::::::::Mr. Katana (or should I call you Mr. X?), Like a wise user once said to me when I was just new to the wiki and didn't have a username: "''sarcasm doesn't exactly work wonders while attempting to argue a point''". And now for the actual reply. We all want to have friends and meet new ones. If this fact was false we wouldn't have such sites as MySpace. Yes, the wiki is a way to make friends, contrary to what some people were saying here, and no, the Fanstuff is not the only place to goof around. But (and that's a big but) making friends through random signatures left on your userpage is not the way to do it. Some userpages told the signers to leave a comment next to their sig. While some posted things like "Thenks for helping me" or "We had fun that one time", alot of them left comments like "Yay! I'm number 27!" or "What? Another guestbook?!" showing that they don't really care about you, your userpage or how good your edits are. It just became a wall intended to be place for art pieces but ended up for ugly graffiti. If you want to make friends, have you thought of going to the chatroom? Having a project, a big one? Think about the wiki as school. An open one where you can make everything. Do you make friends by going to random people with a pen and writing something on their back? Or do you make friends by making something beautiful for all to see? {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 06:58, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:::::::::First off, check what I posted before I was editing conflict'd. And second, too much ugly graffiti? I love too much ugly graffiti! No, seriously, where I come from graffiti is the finest art form around, but that's not really the point. This wiki isn't a school, unless it's the Crazy Go Nuts University, and I couldn't give a crap less whether people care about me or not, as you can plainly see. That's how I met basically everyone here, and that's how I met all my friends here who probably all hate me now. Anyway, even if it is a big waste of time, it's just freaking user pages, not actual articles, and from what I know, these guestbooks haven't caused any tragedy. So there, ban me for my guestbook. It's a Free Country, USA and I will not be silenced! {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}
#::::::::::1) Please see my most recent edit above. 2) Yeah, I've made the school analogy before, but I was just thinking "everything that's ''good'' or has the potential to be good about school, hopefully without the really crappy side effects." I.e. ideally it ''would'' be a place for creativity, spontaneity, and individual expression, plus communal, supportive collaboration, but without getting stuffed into lockers or simply called a dumb***. Hopefully it would ''not'' be a militaristic institution for the mass-producing of servile factory fodder either. 3) I'd be really surprised if anybody on the wiki hates you right now, ''including'' those with the opposite opinion on this argument. Guestbooks ''do'' make friendships (though meaningful talk page edits do so even better), and if the friends mean more to you than the guestbook, then even if guestbooks go the way of MXPX ''and'' the buffalo, you'll have what mattered in the first place. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 07:28, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:::::::::::Yeah, we're on the same page. Or, more accurately, we're on two different pages which are right next to each other, but that counts too. One thing though, I don't think MXPX will be taking the buffalo route any time soon - I just heard them on [http://www.tv.com/users/DarthKatanaX/profile.php?action=show_blog&entry=175628 Burnout Revenge] and all. So, to close it up, I'll halfta go check that out, and hopefully none of my friends will take my flames personally. You might want to check out the Fight for the Guestbooks on my talk page, anyway. {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}
#::::::::::::Not long ago, before guestbooks were popular, we ''still'' managed to communicate, form friendships, plan projects, and so on... through the use of ''talk threads'' and ''IRC chat''. No one is going to be asking you to stop communicating. No one is going to prevent you from reading user pages and posting meaningful comments on the talk pages. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 16:11, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:::::::::::::The advantage of a guestbook, of course, is that it ''solicits'' input from other users, where as an "unadvertised" talk page isn't likely to get unprovoked discussion that often. I ''have'' seen several creative examples of snagging input (input beyond a signature) already in play, though: I mentioned [[User:Has Matt?|Has Matt]]'s list of things Homsar should say; Heimstern's recurring [[User:Heimstern Läufer#German translation fun|German H*R quote]] also springs to mind, as does Tony Stony's [[User:Tony Stony#Me (screenshot from iMirror)|Frankenpic]]. These 1) provoke people to sign, 2) are H*R related and require H*R skillz, and 3) are fun. I think they'd do what guestbooks set out to do, but do so much better. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 20:18, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#I think having a guestbook is a good idea; i would however support the concept of moving them to a subpage. {{User:DJ Teh Cheat/sig}} 16:38, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#Same here. I didn't see an option to vote for that however. That would clear up the problem of confusing the edits with userpage vandalism. {{User:Smileyface11945/sig}} 00:05, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
#I don't want to get rid of my guestbook. They let people know they've arrived. --{{User:The 386/sig}} 17:07, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:Well, all it really lets you know is that they arrived at your guestbook. There's no real reason to expect—or even believe—that the person was on your page any longer than the time it took to type <code><nowiki>#~~~~</nowiki></code>. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 17:13, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#I want 'em, but keep one only and keep 'em friendly, not competitive. {{User:LePorello/sig}} 19:19, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#{{User:Marth 99/sig}} 22:05, 22 January 2006 (UTC) I'm with LePorello. I've never been competitive about these, and besides, like Darth said, they're just fun. I don't feel they are interfering with the wiki.
#:Perhaps you should see the recent changes snippet from earlier today in the comments section below (featuring none other than LePorello's edits). I'm wondering what your (and his) reply would be to my remarks there. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 22:29, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#::That's just one person. Although I agree with his statement, I don't agree with rapid signing. I, like Has Matt, look at a person's page before signing it. I give a short comment and I occasionally get a response as well. That works better that marathon signing. {{User:Marth 99/sig}} 22:39, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:::We wouldn't be having this discussion if it were just one person. When it comes to the point that you need an entire page devoted to a subject just to discuss it, that's indicative of an actual problem. Some of the replies in this section would make it sound like we're want to stop people from saying they like someone's page or from communicating at all. ''This is not the case.'' You would still be perfectly free to post comments in threads on the talk page, just like always. I think that's an even better way to get a response and start a dialogue that could lead to a friendship. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 22:52, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#::::Ooooh. Didn't realize I was being a rapid-signing idiot there. Hence, I now resolve to actually read the user pages '''before''' signing guestbooks. (This doesn't change my vote. I'm still for 'em.) {{User:LePorello/sig}} 23:26, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#"Countless guestbook edits"? I think some of the supporters are exaggerating a bit. {{User:Salty/sig}} 01:33, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
#:Apparently, you do not read recent changes. Recently, there has been a ''huge'' spike in recent user page edits. This is problematic for people who patrol, since this was almost always trolling before guestbooks. {{User:Rogue Leader/sig}} 02:45, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
#Although I don't really care about them, they haven't been bugging me at all. I don't mind if they stay, personally. - {{User:Joshua/sig}} 02:11, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
# I agree with LePorello. Only one, keep em friendly. [[User:TheGreatLogini|TheGreatLogini]] 12:47, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
#I think we should be able to keep our guestbooks if we want to. {{User:Tampo/sig}} 16:48, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
# This is a bittersweet oppose. I have a guestbook and I like it. I like seeing who has read my page. I think I was one of the original 6 guestbooks and my guest book dates back to October. I have even put up cute things to try to get a few certain people **cough cough**JoeyDay, Tom, HomestarCoder, Phlip, Joshua, Jay, The Paper, DorianGray, FireBird **cough cough** to sign it. I wish we can roll back the clock or restirct the creation of new guestbooks (grandfather the old ones in). I think the reason that Userpage edits have skyrocketed is that TBC haven't put a lot out lately and frankly I'm bored. Today I logged in about 4 times (because its a monday) and once I saw that there is no new toon, I check out user pages of my comrads. As I seem to be seriously outnumbered, I will delete mine if it comes to that but I will be sad to see it go. {{User:Invisible_Robot_Fish/sig}} 18:47, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
#I don't see anything wrong with guestbooks. The primary "problem" seems to be that it floods Recent Changes. Increase the number of things that appear in Recent Changes, then. Besides, it's not like other things don't flood Recent Changes (Image templates, category additions, bots, etc). The other problem was that there's an increasing number of edits that have to be checked for vandalism. As the wiki grows, there'll be more edits, user namespace or otherwise. It's not that hard to check edits for vandalism. And that's my six cents. -- {{User:Super_Sam/sig}} 10:47, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
#:Read the page. The primary "problem" is not the recent changes. That's a side effect. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]]
#Keep the guestbooks, they're cool to have. If you're so terribly worried about recent changes, then just move guestbooks to the talkpage or a subpage. And to the people who say that guestbooks should be banned because you think they are pointless, well that's the most retarded thing I've heard lately, if you don't care for them then JUST DON'T USE THEM! And the claims about recent changes flooding sound pretty hyped up, the same kind of crap I hear from the opponents of userboxes on Wikipedia. [[User:Yeltensic|Yeltensic]] 14:31, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
#:Once again, recent changes is just the straw that broke the camel's back. The real problem is that guestbooks have become a mere shell of what they were intended to be. Since there are real and better ways of communicating, we are going to do away with guestbooks in favor of talk threads. On another note, it's not like everybody doesn't know what the word is there that you "censored", and it is not appropriate for this discussion. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 15:02, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
#::OK, It's dot com, I removed it. Happy now? I just get tired of all this crap, all of these people who insist upon removing something others like, just because they disagree. OK, so use talk threads instead if you like, but ''why not just have both''? Seriously, what's wrong with having options? [[User:Yeltensic|Yeltensic]] 17:39, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
#I think that we should keep the guestbooks. I mean, I always enjoy signing a guestbook. It's always fun to look and see who visited your page. I always enjoy it when people sign my page. It just lets you know that there are people that look at your page. I support them. They may be pointless, but they're fun and interesting. I mean, if you got rid of everything pointless, where would I be?--{{User:Homsarroks/sig}} 17:17, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
#One word: "Overregulation". --{{User:Nerd42/sig}} 03:12, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

====Comments====
* The primary objections seem to be 1) that they make userpage vandalism harder to spot, and 2) they make a lot of "empty" edits to check out in general. Stux suggested restricting them to User Talk pages; although it wouldn't solve the second issue it would solve the first. Although I don't like them, I'm not so sure they need to go entirely; they ''do'' have some benefit in community-building, plus banning them even from talk pages seems a little draconian. (If the defense were that they're not wiki-related talk, many of us would be [[User talk:AbdiViklas#Solfège...|guilty]].) Certainly only one per user per lifetime should be allowed, but I'm not ready to vote to end them entirely and everywhere. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 01:24, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*:I think the reason that people are ready to get rid of them entirely is because they are not being used as real guestbooks. A signature on one does not mean that the user page was appreciated or even read. Some users actively campaign (via talk page spam) to try and get more signatures, which just drives up frivolous edits more. This is why I believe they should be eliminated, not just moved. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 01:33, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*I wish there was some way to keep certain guestbooks, such as the ones that were around before they were a fad, or the ones used actually as guestbooks, not as a challenge to see how many signatures they can get by a certain date... But there's not really a way to fairly decide that, is there? {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 01:02, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*:Yeah, it's kind of like when one noisy student ruins the field trip for the whole class. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 01:53, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*::I hear you, Thunderbird. But yes, that ''would'' be quite difficult to justify reasonably: "Your guestbook is appropriately motivated; you can keep it! But ''your'' guestbook is a mercenary guestbook; you can't!" I personally don't find the argument of function compelling (not "proper" guestbooks); frivolous edit and talk page spamming ''are'' concerns, though. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 01:50, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*Since I seem to be saying a lot in defense of guestbooks, I just want to play the other side for a sec.: There's no reason people can't simply link to blogs or personal websites which have guestbooks of their own. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 01:50, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*:Just curious, but why ''are'' you saying so much in the defense of guestbooks? You don't have one. Almost none of the people with whom you collaborate most often have one. Have you ever formed a meaningful friendship through one? I myself have signed a few guestbooks (back when that's what they were), but nothing substantial came of it. Again, I'm just curious. :) — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 16:11, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*::Right; not only do I not have one, but I've never bothered to sign one that I can remember. It's not ''just'' that I'm playing Devil's Advocate, arguing for them since there seemed to be few voices for them at first; I do actually feel that they don't necessarily need to go. Mind, I ''definitely'' think at the least "guestbook reform" is necessary, and would like to see their form and function not only preserved but improved; I just have misgivings about a cold-turkey crackdown. I'm certainly not going to be broken up if they go, since I don't think they're doing as much good or meaning as much as their owners perceive them to, but I'd like to keep the "anything goes in your userspace ''except''" list no longer than necessary. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 20:08, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*If this thing didn't evolve to be a fad I would even fight for the right to keep them. But now they just litter the recent changes page. This days are the first time I had to use the MainSpace filter to a actually ''see'' the edits {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 06:38, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*Finally! I am so tired of this stupid fad! You sign one guestbook, another million pop up. They serve no purpose to the wiki and, frankly, they're now really unoriginal. Are we just owning and signing guestbooks because everyone else is? I mean, when it comes to taste, everyone just follows each other like sheep. Why else are the music charts here in England full of crap? {{User:The Chort/sig}} 13:57, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*:By the way, if you haven't liked them, there's always been an avenue of dissent: not to sign them. I've never quite figured out the cases where somebody signs a guestbook and simultaneously complains about it. Seems to me by signing you'd just be helping them spread. (I know, there can be social obligation, etc. Just saying.) —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 20:08, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*::Ok, I confess. Like many other users, I just sign guestbooks to increase the number of links to ''my'' user page! Yes, I know. It's a form of self-advertising. Stick your signature everywhere and more people visit your user page. Besides, all I put is "My autograph? Sure!", giving no feedback whatsoever. I use talk pages to do that. I should probably be locked away for such crimes. Anyway, the main thing is that these points alone probably show why we should get rid of them. {{User:The Chort/sig}} 16:37, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
*just because you consider it a fad, it's a USER PAGE. as in, the USER gets to decide what to do with it. and if they want a guestbook, it's not up for the wiki to decide. this sounds like a meaningless rule designed to give more control to a humble majority. "I don't like jumproping! nobody else can jumprope from now on!"{{User:DJ Teh Cheat/sig}} 16:39, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*:Actually, user page control is not absolute. We do give quite a bit of leeway as to what you can put on a user page, but there are [[HRWiki:User_space#What_should_I_avoid.3F|certain restrictions]]. If the community decides (and not by just a simple majority) that it's best if we eliminate guestbooks, then we will. But we're not taking this decision lightly—It has simply reached a boiling point. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 16:49, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*::Right; despite what I ''just'' said a few edits above about "anything goes in your userspace except," it's ''not'' your private property, and it ''is'' for the wiki to do decide. As is stated somewhere in the restrictions It's dot com just linked to, you can find unfettered freedom of personal expression simply by linking to an external site. You can ''even'' host a guestbook there and link to it! —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 20:08, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*Is there a way to keep any user X's guestbook at "User:X/guestbook" and modify code somewhere to make it so that no changes made to to pages of the form "User:X/guestbook" would appear in the Recent changes log? (I understand this opens the door for unchecked vandalism.) {{User:Trey56/sig}} 17:46, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*:Well, it would be possible from a technical standpoint, but I'm not very comfortable with random users' edits not showing up in the recent changes. Besides, the recent changes flood is just an annoying ''symptom'' of the underlying cause (that guestbooks aren't being used as intended). — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 18:17, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
<blockquote class="plainlinks">
*([http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=User:Darthvader66&curid=13738&diff=244680&oldid=243943 diff]) ([http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=User:Darthvader66&curid=13738&action=history hist]) . . [[User:Darthvader66]]; 18:24 . . [[User:LePorello|LePorello]] ([[User talk:LePorello|Talk]]) ([[User:Darthvader66#Guest_Book|→]]Guest Book)
*([http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=User:Nintendostar_Runner&curid=17721&diff=244679&oldid=244633 diff]) ([http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=User:Nintendostar_Runner&curid=17721&action=history hist]) . . [[User:Nintendostar Runner]]; 18:23 . . [[User:LePorello|LePorello]] ([[User talk:LePorello|Talk]]) ([[User:Nintendostar_Runner#Guestbook|→]]Guestbook)
*([http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=User:Gnome_of_Fury&curid=17483&diff=244678&oldid=244623 diff]) ([http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=User:Gnome_of_Fury&curid=17483&action=history hist]) . . [[User:Gnome of Fury]]; 18:22 . . [[User:LePorello|LePorello]] ([[User talk:LePorello|Talk]]) ([[User:Gnome_of_Fury#Surprise.2C_surprise.2C_it.27s_another_frickin.27_guestbook.21|→]]Surprise, surprise, it's another frickin' guestbook!)
</blockquote>
*These three consecutive edits illustrate the supporters' positions precisely: If you were a speed reader, you ''might'' could get through all three of those pages in less than a minute each, but would you have enjoyed the experience at all? I think not. Those who would read a user page are no longer signing guestbooks, and those who now sign guestbooks are just clogging up the recent changes. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 19:52, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*:I have to say that I am not a person that goes on a random guestbook signing spree, subsequently clogging up recent changes. If I find a user page which I haven't read, I read it, if I am interested and have time, and if that user has a guestbook, I sign it as well. I do not just look for the guestbook on a page and see how many I can sign in a minute. However, I know I can't speak for the rest of the Wiki, which is why we are having this conversation in the first place. You have to admit, whether you like it or not, guestbooks have affected this Wiki in a huge way; some think it's affected it for the good, some think for the bad. I know that a lot of friends have been made through guestbooks, and that they can be utilized to function in a positive fashion, but I also have to admit that they have caused a lot of problems in the Wiki as well. I am not a strong supporter or opposer of the idea of taking away guestbooks. It does seem kinda totalitarian and 1984-ish to ban guestbooks from the Wiki, but on the other hand, this Wiki's main purpose is not to have fun, but to document anthing and everything Homestar Runner. While there are a lot of ways we can have fun in the process of doing that, it seems as if guestbooks have ventured beyond the realm of a fun, innocent little thing that shows how valued you are to a way to get attention and compete to be the first one to sign. {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 21:10, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*::i agree with the beginning of what has matt just said. not everyone just goes on for a guestbook, and if you think it clogs up the recent changes, '''deal with it.''' that is just the way it goes. i know lots of people have made friends, i would too if i felt like being an actual user. guestbooks are good. [[User:69.162.201.219|69.162.201.219]] 00:43, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
*:::We ''have'' been dealing with it... for a while now. If they weren't being abused I would happily continue dealing with it. But since other, more productive ways to get to know each other can take their place (like talk threads), we'd rather stop dealing with it because we're ''tired'' of dealing with it. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 00:52, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
*::::true, i must admit. it's just that guestbooks seem like, almost....icebreakers. you are not going to go to a talk page and type, "want to be my friend?" instead, you will have signatures that you will go to, and their you will laugh at the stuff they say. then you will eventually just leave notes on their talk pages, and it will be great. [[User:69.162.201.219|69.162.201.219]] 01:00, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
* To be honest, I don't think the "Recent Changes Flooding" argument is a particularly strong one. Whenever I look at Recent Changes, the two things that catch my eye a lot more than Guestbook entries, even frequent ones, are the occasional flood of <nowiki>{{web-screenshot}}</nowiki> and similar edits that go on a lot of images all at once, and when users make a whole bunch of minor edits to their sigs, their user pages, etc., all at once. (I'm guilty of doing this myself now and then.) Very rarely do I see guestbooks as causing a lot of spam in the Recent Changes list, and they personally don't bother me. {{User:KieferSkunk/sig}} 05:15, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
*:The web-screenshot floods are a necessary evil for us not getting sued (and I'm not getting into that now) and will stop the moment the project is done. If users would just learn to use the "Show preview" button before all those minor changes it wouldn't flood the RC page. The only thing that is left flooding is the guestbooks, and we are discussing those right now. Please don't try to change the subject or pointing the finger on other stuff. {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 07:25, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
*::Besides, KieferSkunk, the point I keep trying to make is that the recent changes flood is just indicative of a bigger problem. But never mind that for a second... You can easily hide image edits by switching the namespace to "Image" and pressing "Invert selection". (Also, once we finally get all the images tagged, we won't have those floods anymore.) I sometimes use the same trick with the "User" namespace just so I can see the "real" edits, but this isn't a viable option in the long run for patrollers because vandalism would go completely unchecked. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 10:56, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
*:::I realize that, and I'm not trying to change the subject or point fingers. I'm just pointing out that, to me personally, the Guestbook-related edits don't bother me - they seem to take up much less room in Recent Changes (at least whenever I look at them) than other edits, and I just sorta tune them out most of the time. I don't see it as being as significant a problem as others do, apparently. {{User:KieferSkunk/sig}} 20:13, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
*Has it occurred to anyone that since a guestbook generally has its own subheading on a userpage, the word "guestbook" or some form thereof automatically appears in the edit summary, meaning that they can easily be distinguished from userpage vandalism on recent changes? And that's really the whole case against them, the recent changes problem, is it not? [[User:Yeltensic|Yeltensic]] [[User talk:Yeltensic|Save the guestbooks]] 19:06, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
*:No, as Dot com explained in response to your comment above, the recent changes problem is NOT the primary problem. The primary problem is that guestbooks are not being used reasonably - there's too many instances of "I need to sign as many guestbooks as possible / get as many sigs as possible in the shortest period of time." {{User:Homestar Coder/sig}} 19:09, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
*:Perhaps I should clarify. What I meant is that the recent changes problem is the only ''valid'' concern. The fact that you dislike them, or the way that they are use, is not a valid concern as far as grounds for banning them. For instance, I don't like rap music, does that mean it should be illegal? No, of course not, because other people like it. [[User:Yeltensic|Yeltensic]] [[User talk:Yeltensic|Save the guestbooks]] 21:10, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
*::That argument would hold if we were trying to ban guestbooks from the Internet as a whole. This is the Homestar Runner Wiki, and we have lots and lots of policy as to what's allowed on pages. For example, you're only allowed two personal images. You're not allowed to put a blog on your userpage. You're not allowed to post fanstuff in the knowledge base. You're not allowed to say R-rated things. Nobody would stop you from creating an external guestbook and linking to it from your userpage. "Other people like it" is not a complete argument. Admin'ing on the H*RWiki has taught me that lots and lots of people like to go from page to page and replace the character names with "POOP LOL" but nobody thinks we should allow that. {{User:Homestar Coder/sig}} 21:24, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
*::Yeltensic, I find it ironic that by blindly signing as many guestbooks as you can find [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=Yeltensic&limit=28&go=first as fast as you can] you are essentially proving the supporters' two main points. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 19:53, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
*:::Good job, you just completely missed what I was doing. I was a) trying to fit in as many self-ads as possible before guestbooks are banned, and b) protesting this laughably absurd policy proposal. As I've wondered on my userpage, is there some conspiracy going on that spans two sites, Wikipedia and HRWiki? It's odd that the absurd "guestbook crisis" here was made up around the same time as the "userbox crisis" over there. [[User:Yeltensic|Yeltensic]] [[User talk:Yeltensic|Save the guestbooks]] 21:10, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
*::::What, because they're going to be banned within the next ten minutes? You've got plenty of time for that. If you're a Wikipedia regular, then perhaps you've heard of not disrupting the wiki to make a point. It seems that in the time you've spent griping about this you could have actually ''read'' those user pages in an effort to get to know the people. '''(By the way, nothing prevents anyone from picking users from the recent changes list, reading their user pages, and then leaving meaningful feedback on the talk pages.)''' This just goes to show that guestbooks do not promote anything more than their own perpetuation. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 21:31, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
*:::::Sorry if it seems like I'm picking on Yeltensic, but: [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=Special%3AContributions&offset=0&limit=50&target=Yeltensic&namespace=0 Yeltensic's main namespace edits] [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=Special%3AContributions&offset=0&limit=50&target=Yeltensic&namespace=1 Yeltensic's main namespace talk page edits]. No offense, but this is the sort of behavior we try to discourage - users who sign up to do nothing but edit userpages that never contribute to the actual H*RWiki pages, the reason we are all here in the first place. We're seeing too many users who sign up only or mainly to sign guestbooks / collect sigs in their own guestbook. There are lots of webpages devoted to that - try Myspace. {{User:Homestar Coder/sig}} 22:16, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
*::::::Well if I ever were going to get around to editing HRWiki pages, I definitely won't now, with people like you running things. Methinks I'll just stick to editing my userpage, signing guestbooks, avoiding you, all of those fun things. Good-bye and have a nice day. [[User:Yeltensic|Yeltensic]] [[User talk:Yeltensic|Save the guestbooks]] 03:18, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
*A teeny little bit of Devil's advocate here: So, there's a part of me that wonders if this fad would just go away if we left it alone. I find that, with the exception of those who are protesting this proposed ban, people are becoming less interested in guestbooks (notice how many people deleted their guestbooks right about the time Bubsty left). Maybe I haven't been looking at the right times, though. I guess I just wanted to get it out there that it ''might'' not be necessary to carry out this ban. Like I said, though, this is largely Devil's advocate; I'm not really against getting rid of guestbooks. Thanks for putting up with my rambling. {{User:Heimstern Läufer/sig}} 20:03, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
*:Then again, I'm just realizing now that the disapperance of some guestbooks (mostly by good users) means that a greater portion are of the existing guestbooks are frivolous. So, maybe that's a good reason to go ahead with the ban. {{User:Heimstern Läufer/sig}} 20:09, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
*I, like Heimstern, have been somewhat abstaining from voting one way or another in this issue. There are probably more people who are somewhat ambivalent to the issue. I, myself don't have a guestbook, but I have signed many in my day, as I've mentioned before. I think the hardest thing to swallow is having to part with something that been attached to and they pride themselves in (be it for frivolous reasons or not). When I first saw them, I thought it was a great idea. I didn't know it had become the nuisance it is now until i started reading this dicussion. Personally, I still feel like eliminating them altogether seems like a rather extreme solution to the problem. Of course, like Heimstern said, many good users have voluntarily removed their guestbooks and what remains are the seemingly fanatical ones. It seems that a tug-of-war has arised over the desire for some users to have as much freedom over their userspace as possible, versus the need for this wiki to grow as a community and in order to do so it must have some reasonable structure to it. The willingness of many established members to give up their guestbooks is a clear sign that there is a problem. I think if the remaining guestbook users can show and exercise some restraint over their guestbook presentation and signing (i.e. having only one guestbook, not racing over signatures, etc), the general guestbook atmosphere can change to where a compromise can be reached and instead of banning guestbooks altogether, a set of reasonable guidelines are established on proper guestbook etiquette. --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 23:39, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
*:You'd think so, wouldn't you? You'd also think that guestbooks wouldn't have grown to the problem they are now, but they have. You'd think that now that this issue is front and center, users wouldn't ''still'' be racing across the wiki playing guestbook hunt, but they are. Guestbooks are neither are a longstanding feature of the wiki nor something irreplaceable, and they need to go. The culture developing from the racing guestbook hunters seems to center entirely on the user namespace, something that is at odds with the purposes of this project. Ironically, though these users must spend a lot of time on user pages, retention of the info there cannot possibly be very high when the total time spent on any one page is less than a minute. There are better ways to communicate than that. For more than a year we got by without them and we will get by once they're gone. You might note that you and I have collaborated on several projects and know each other pretty well (relatively speaking) without once ever having signed a guestbook on the other's page. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 01:44, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
*i don't think guestbooks do much on either side. the recent changes thing doesn't matter much. also, people have the right not read a page. really, in my opinion, this whole page doesn't matter. {{User:Seriously/sig}} 23:44, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
<center><hr width=70%></center>

===If the consensus is to end the practice, then what?===
====Delete them altogether====
#— [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 00:26, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#{{User:Rogue Leader/sig}} 00:29, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]] 00:38, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#{{User:FireBird/sig}} 04:15, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:I'm having a hard time understanding this position. All the arguments against guestbooks, it seems to me, center around what happens when people ''edit'' them (clogs recent changes, etc.). Aside from the possibility that having them around might incite new ones (which the "closed" tag idea [[HRWiki talk:Standards#Other|below]] ought to curtail), what exactly are they hurting? Even if deletion is necessary, is there a reason to go in and delete them by force with a "the notice has been up" defense rather than starting by asking the user to do so? It seems so... [[Wikipedia:Vogon|Vogon]]. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 08:19, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#::Keep in mind that almost nothing is actually ever deleted from the wiki. If people want to visit their old guestbook, it will still be in the history. You ask what they're hurting, and several people have said that they clog the recent changes. While I agree with this, it isn't the basis of my opposition to them because I think it is a weak argument and is only a side-effect of the underlying problem: namely, at some point in the not-too-distant past, guestbooks reached a critical mass and exploded. When that happened, they lost all meaning and became a game. In other words, if guestbooks were currently being used as they were intended to be used, then I would fight tooth and nail to keep them and ''to heck'' with the annoyance of the patrollers. ''But they're not,'' and I have no reasonable expectation that simply ''moving'' them would change the current behavior even one iota. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 16:28, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:::Oops—I wasn't very clear there. I meant what would "dormant" guestbooks hurt—i.e. something like closed STUFFs, with a little notice saying "This is from before we instituted our '''guestbook standard'''; please do not edit." (Elaboration [[#Other|below]] on how this could work.) Yeah, I think we're all pretty clear on what guestbooks currently hurt. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 20:52, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#[[User:Homsad|Homsad]] Delete them!
#{{User:Some HSR themed username/sig}} 17:04, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#{{User:Gafaddict/sig}} 19:49, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#{{User:Dantheburgerking/sig}} 01:28, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
#{{User:Homestar Coder/sig}} 09:30, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
#{{User:Total Spaceship Guy3/sig}} 10:35, 23 January 2006 (UTC) Burn them all!
#For the very clear reasons [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] stated above. {{User:The Paper/sig}} 15:21, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
#{{User:The Chort/sig}} 16:43, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
#{{User:Bill Martinson/sig}} 18:37, 23 January 2006 (UTC) — for the many reasons It's dot com has tirelessly explained (and, sadly, had to reiterate); the other proposals just aren't workable due to overhead, judgement calls, etc. The purpose of this website is not to provide a meeting place for people who are more interested in making new chat-buddies than in contributing to the encyclopedia. Let's get over our own egos and do what's best for the wiki.
#[[User:Mycroft.holmes|Mycroft Holmes]] 20:14, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
#{{User:Pertmywert/sig}} 20:57, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

====Move existing ones to subpages and lock them====
#{{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 00:28, 22 January 2006 (UTC) I think that if someone really ''really'' values their guestbook, they should have the option of moving it to a subpage and keeping it there for the sake of documenting history.
#:Couldn't they copy it to their own computer? Also, they can still see it in their page history. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 00:49, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#::I'm just saying they should have the option. By the way, I'm saving my guestbook to my computer.
#:::I think we should fight subpage [[Wikipedia:Creep (project management)|creep]] as much as possible. If we disallow guestbooks, then those subpages would no longer serve the project. But if someone just wants to see one, all they would need to do is look at an old version of their page. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 01:33, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#::::There are other reasons for wanting to keep one than sentimental value. Guestbooks—like user pages in general—are excusable exercises in vanity. The whole point of one is so people can see how many people like you, or at least have acknowledged you. Though this may not be a particularly noble motivation, it's hardly unreasonable. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 01:42, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:::::But again, it's not like the comments would disappear from the histories. Why add to the already growing problem of subpages? Talk page discussions are just as good as (nay, better than) guestbook entries, because actual thought goes into leaving messages. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 01:53, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#[[User:Bluebry muffin|Bluebry]] 03:20, 22 January 2006 (UTC) As said above - Most people I met were from guestbooks.
#:<nowiki>*</nowiki>sigh* Once more, you would have a chance to copy the info to your computer, or look at it in your page history. (Broken record = me) — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 03:29, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#::I know, but I want to meet more people, not ones from January. [[User:Bluebry muffin|Bluebry]] 18:42, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:::Have you tried looking around the wiki yourself? Like the recent changes page or talk pages? {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 18:56, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#For someone who knows what it's like to have something that took a long time taken from him, I'm voting about sub-paging and locking. At least give them that. {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 07:00, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#Guestbooks were and always will be a major part of HRwiki history (not to mention all these arguements). I at least think that we should leave them on the Wiki. Taking them off would be like TBC disbanding Teen Girl Squad: sure, it used to be minor, but it became a big piece of the big enchilada. {{User:Teh_Frossty_One/sig}} 17:58, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:<nowiki>*</nowiki>sigh again* Is anybody reading the previous discussion? They won't disappear from the histories. Hardly anything ever does around here. As for being a major part of our history, I would tend to disagree with you there. They're a fad. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 18:17, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#::I ''was'' reading the above arguements, thank you. But my point is that fads can make history books too. What about mullets? They were pretty big way back when. Now, I agree with the fact that they're not the biggest part of history, but maybe just have a little about them on the history page or something. Or keep some examples, like the ones that revolutionized guestbooks. Not trying to sound like a speech here, but, well, you know. {{User:Teh_Frossty_One/sig}} 18:27, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:::Well, what goes on the [[HRWiki:A History|history]] page is outside the scope of this thread (although whatever the outcome of this discussion is should definitely be noted there). Any links on that page can just as easily point to old versions of a page as anything else. By the way, by "revolutionized", do you mean "made a perfectly fine practice into a problem that then had to be dealt with"? — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 18:34, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#::::Your point has seeped into my brain. But what if people took a screenshot of their guestbook in its final state, hosted it on a site, and provided a link to it on their userspace? Personally, I think that's a good idea for (a)anyone who wants to preserve their guestbook and (b)anyone who still wants the world to see it. That way, it's not really cluttering the wiki. {{User:Teh_Frossty_One/sig}} 18:40, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:::::I suppose you could do that. Couldn't you also just put in a link to an old version of the page, [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=User:It%27s_dot_com&oldid=221198 kinda like this]? — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 18:55, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#::::::I guess it would be the choice of the user, then. Pages like this would load faster than an image (especially if you had dial-up like me). {{User:Teh_Frossty_One/sig}} 18:57, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:::::::Heck, as long as you're hosting things externally and linking to them, you can keep your guestbook rolling (as I've mentioned somewhere else on this sprawling page). —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 19:51, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#::::::::i agree with abdiviklas. {{User:Seriously/sig}} 14:12, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

====Other====
* '''Restrict them to talk pages; one per user; and require input beyond signatures.''' They could even be thematic; [[User:Has Matt?|Has Matt]]'s list of "Things I Wish Homsar Would Say" would be a good example (except in this scenario it would be on his talk page). The goal would be meaningful statements that would keep all the good aspects of guestbooks (recognition, friendship-building) without the qualities that started this discussion. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 07:39, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 07:39, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#:But who will decide what's meaningful and what's not? Some will argue that "YA!!! IM #143! =^^=" is quite meaningful. And if some kind of standard is reached, who will remove the bad stuff from the user's page? The user? Sysop? Having something you wrote removed can triger alot of flame wars. {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 07:45, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#::Yeah, good questions. First: once we're talking about talk pages, I for one would be cool with pretty much anything. As I've hinted earlier, some might not find discussions of the [[User talk:AbdiViklas#...And the Absoluteness of Absolute Pitch|absoluteness of absolute pitch]] the most ''meaningful'' talk page content. But I think the policy could be stated fairly clearly: don't just leave your name; try to say something substantive that will make the user happy or tell him or her something about you. The fact that your #143 only makes ''you'' happy, and isn't a particularly intrinsic personal quality. Secondly: Whoa now, yeah. ''If'' this conversation results in a change in policy, then I feel like it should be implemented by leaving the owner a note asking to do it him or herself. He or she can then either delete or move and convert it (though the vast majority would need to just start from scratch—which isn't so bad, really). Rather than moving to subpages and locking, my proposal would be to '''add a tag to existing guestbooks telling other users not to add to them, and then enforce it with warnings'''. It's not like we're dealing with vandalism on the Main Page here; once somebody accidentally signs a "closed" guestbook and is warned, they're not going to continue. If they do, they need to be banned anyway. But closed STUFFs, for instance, survive just fine without locking. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 07:58, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#:::That's a decent idea, but it definitely achieves rigamarole status. I vote for keeping it the way it is, but like I say, good one anyway. {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}
*#::::Oh-ho-ho-ho! (devilish laugh) Sorry about that, I just felt like this place needed a random Strong Bad quote. Okay, back on task. Why don't we just put something in the standards page that says something like, "Although guestbooks in the Wiki are discouraged, you are allowed to have ''one'' guestbook on a subpage or on your talk page." Just another idea I'm throwing out here. You'll probably find some problems with this idea one way or another, I just felt it needed to be mentioned. {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 14:39, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#:::::I would not have a problem with comments restricted to talk pages, but why would an organized guestbook be necessary there? First of all, there's nothing that prevents someone from starting a thread: "Hey, I read ''X'' on your page and you rock!" I have done that myself several times. Second, as we have clearly seen, there seems to be something wrong with a structured list with the label "Guestbook" that causes certain people to go into a frenzy, which completely negates the whole reason to have people sign it (i.e. to indicate that the user page was read and appreciated). — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 16:11, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#::::::How about this. If the guest book bannination is accepted. how about we give people with guest books 2-3 days to move to a sub page and have a sysop lock it. If they fail to do this, I think we should just delete the guest books that are left. And Has Matt?, I kinda think that that defeats the purpose of this vote. {{User:Rogue Leader/sig}} 16:17, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#:::::::Yeah, we're way past the point of simply ''discouraging'' them. Also, if we permitted them on subpages at all, then we'd might as well just move them to a subpage for them. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 16:25, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#::::::::My vote's with AbdiViklas's suggestion. {{User:ACupOfCoffee/sig}} 19:42, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
*#I go for this option i'm voting for, but here's an idea: why not have a global hrwiki guestbook, for those of us that like to sign guestbooks? We lock all guestbooks except for this page where someone can sign their name in for the entire wiki? Strange I know but it just occurred to me. Another q: if guestbooks are totally deleted, yes they remain in the page's history... but what about guestbook subpages? (like the one that USED to be User:Kilroy/Guestbook)? Their histories are lost. Just like that last page I mentioned. --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 20:25, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
*#:Even though it might look deleted, it's not. The only things that are really deleted when it says deleted are images. If someone needed the code from one of those subpages (for example, to archive locally), it could be undeleted long enough to take care of it. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 20:38, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
*#::Ohhhh! Tight paaants! That is good to know! :) --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 23:32, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

* '''Start a one-day race for everyone with a guestbook to amass the most names. At the end of the day, everyone's guestbooks are deleted, and the winner gets a nickel (via PayPal).'''
*#{{User:Trey56/sig}} 03:46, 23 January 2006 (UTC) Everybody wins: guestbook proponents get one last day of unbridled mayhem, and guestbook opponents get eternal relief from their patrolling woes.
*#:Better yet, winner gets $100. Supplied by Trey56 of course. :-P {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 04:10, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
*#::i think that's a great idea. i don't even have a guestbook, but i would like to sign some. [[User:Thatkidyoualllove|Thatkidyoualllove]] 13:21, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

<center><hr width=70%></center>

===If the consensus is to end the practice and delete them altogether, when should that happen?===
*'''About ten days after the consensus is reached here, they should be deleted. A notice should be put up on the Recent Changes page and at the top of watchlists.''' — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 00:26, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#— [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 00:26, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#:And the notices have been put up. {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 02:25, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#::(Notices of the current discussion, that is, not of deletion.) —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 02:29, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#:::Right. Up there I meant that similar notices would be put up saying something like "Now would be a good time to archive that locally before it's gone" or something. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 02:29, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#::::Do you think you could put a notice on the Main Page as well, like we did for donations and NSMC? {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 02:56, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#:::::The thinking is probably that this is an issue that doesn't really concern IPs; if someone's a user they'll probably see it either on recent changes or when they log in (it's on the "successful login" page). —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 03:04, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#::::::Yeah, this isn't something we need to bother people with who are just here to read. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 03:26, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*# [[User:Homsad|Homsad]] 17:00, 22 January 2006
*#Yeah, what counts as a guestbook? I mean, I have things like Favorite Sbemail, and the occasional poll. [[User:Bluebry muffin|Bluebry]] 18:47, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#:Bluebry, polls are different than guestbooks. Many people have guestbooks, while not as many people have polls. Polls won't last forever, and aren't as annoying as guestbooks. Most people leave their guestbooks up forever. Polls are temporary. Now, people with ''two'' guesbooks, on the other hand, are more of our focus. *wink wink* {{User:Teh_Frossty_One/sig}} 18:51, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#::Yeah, Bluebry; see my comment near the end of the long [[#Oppose|Oppose]] section advocating the practice of Healthy Non-Guestbook Interaction Practices. Making good Peer-to-Talk page choices. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 20:56, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#::Yeah, um, sorry for having TWO guestbooks. Ummm, yeah. [[User:Bluebry muffin|Bluebry]] 18:54, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#:::well, i think that it should be done in two weeks. that leaves users with plentiful time to get as much sigantures as possible.
*#::::One week is plenty. {{User:Rogue Leader/sig}} 21:15, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

== Original discussion ==
''This disscussion was originally found in [[HRWiki:Da Basement]]''

Guestbooks started out as kinda cute. Then they became a fad. Now it seems that everybody's user pages are being edited by other people. I remember a time when such a thing was vandalism nine times out of ten. Having guestbooks is really becoming a nuisance for recent changes. I think we should do away with them. I don't even think moving them to a subpage is a good idea, because it seems most people just go around blindly signing them, without actually reading the page in question. I would prefer, if someone had read my user page, that they just made some kind of meaningful comment on my talk page. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 04:24, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
:I am going to have to say that I agree. At the very least, all current guestbooks need to be moved to a subpage. Guestbooks now are just for signing them, not to show that someone reads a guestbook owners userpage. {{User:Rogue Leader/sig}} 04:27, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

::I concur with Ben on all counts. -- [[User:Tom|Tom]] 04:30, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

:::Yessir. It's Dot Com hit the nail on the head. {{User:FireBird/sig}} 04:33, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

::::Yeah, you guys are probably right. I have to admit, I'm also guilty of owning a [[User:Thunderbird L17/Guestbook|guestbook]], but if that's what it takes to do away with this pointless fad, I'll give a vote towards getting rid of all guestbooks, including my own. {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 04:50, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

:::::I like signing guestbooks. I don't have one but I like signing them. About 75% of the time I do end up reading the page in question too! I hope I'm not the exception. Perhaps they can be restricted to the user's talk page? --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 05:02, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

:::::'''EDIT CONFLICT:'''Agreed with everybody. Signing a guestbook doesn't say that you like that page, or that you enjoyed what they wrote. I agree with Dot com, leave a message with some thought if you want to say that you liked a user page, not put your sig on their userpage. I don't think guestbooks are ''bad'', they're just pointless.--{{User:bkmlb/sig}} 05:03, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

::::::When we come to a point when (and I don't want to name names) there are two or three different guestbooks on the same userpage for no reason at all, or that there's a "guestbook race" where users race to see who could sign it first, or even when a user picks up a deadline for getting X signatures before a certian date, it's time to get rid of that fad. I hate seeing users who have more then 500 userpage and usertalk edits, but less then 20 mainspace edits. {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 07:37, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

:::::::Stux: That wouldn't make a difference. It's not about where it is, it's the fact that it clutters Recent Changes up and makes patrolling edits a nightmare. {{User:FireBird/sig}} 07:41, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
::::::::I agree, although guilty of signing a few. It's become not only a fad, but a competition. Who can sign the most guestbooks, who can sign the fastest, whose is longer, who can reach the most by such and such date--even who [[User:Bluebry muffin|has the most]]. I personally wouldn't mind seeing them go. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
:::::::::That page made me agree with getting rid of them. In fact, I'm gonna go get rid of mine right now. {{User:ACupOfCoffee/sig}} 03:50, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
::::::::::''{sigh}'' It's sad it got to this point. It's really kind of like [[The Geddup Noise]], isn't it? We've gone from "Guestbooks used to be cool!" to "Corporate Guestbooks still suck". I hate the thought of them being banned, but it probably has gotten to that point. I'll support it. {{User:Heimstern Läufer/sig}} 04:01, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
:::::::::::Guestbooks are dying with their original creator, [[User:Bubsty|Bubsty]]. I'm taking mine out too. {{User:Dantheburgerking/sig}} 04:13, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
:::::::::::I'm not sure exactly who started the fad, but my money's on [[User:Smileyface11945|Smileyface11945]]. Both [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=User:Smileyface11945&oldid=116185 his] and [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=User:Thunderbird_L17/Guestbook&oldid=171056 my] guestbooks predate that of [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=User:Bubsty&oldid=198810 Bubsty]'s. Still, I think Bubsty ammased the most sigs, and I belive it was his' that influenced the inordanant influx of guestbooks. {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 05:24, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
:His is gone. [[User:24.18.208.18|24.18.208.18]] 23:44, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
::Also, Bubsty never started guestbooks. He said he got it from RJMT somewhere. [[User:24.18.208.18|24.18.208.18]] 23:48, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
:::Thanks, I [[HRWiki:Da Basement#noted|just meantioned]] that. His' is [[User:Bubsty/guestbook|still around]], just not really linked to much. And [[User:RJMT|RJMT]]'s guestbook only goes back to [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=User:RJMT&oldid=194351 Novermber 9th], which still post-dates both mine and Smiley's. {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 00:38, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
::::I think [http://old.hrwiki.org/index.php?page=IPADDRESSMAN this] is an interesting point... --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
:::::Heh. That ''is'' interesting. But guestbooks clearly died out at some point (perhaps when we switched to MediaWiki), and have only recently resurged. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 01:02, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
::::::Yeah. I'm not sure if anybody remembered his or not to start the MediaWiki generation of Guestbooks, but that's beside the point. We're getting a bit off topic now (mostly my fault). The question isn't who started them, it's should we keep them, and/or what should we do about them? {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 01:05, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
:I agree with Dot com. (I know, I left, but I was finishing this killerdynamo and admin-hating thing up...) About 2-3 weeks ago they weren't ''that'' big of a deal, but now it's gotten kinda... insane. Especially if everyone starts getting [[User:Bluebry muffin|more then one]]. They started out being cute, but ''now'' they're just plain annoying. (I feel kinda bad though, seeing as a lot of users see mine and think "Oh cool! I want one!"). I'm taking mine off. {{User:Bubsty/sig}} 05:47, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
:::::I think we should keep our own guestbook if we want to. {{User:Tampo/sig}} 14:41, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

::::::May I remind you Tampo, that the discussion, as mentioned below is going on in [[#Guestbooks|above]]. --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 16:42, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
:::::::I just put my comment here because my computer couldn't load that page. {{User:Tampo/sig}} 16:46, 23 January 2006 (UTC)



''This is an archive of the original discussion. Please put new comments [[#Guestbooks|above]].''

User talk:It's dot com

Yeltensic — Tue, 24 Jan 2006 21:21:30 GMT

Yeltensic: /* i'm back */

{{User talk:It's dot com/teasers}}
= <div style="background:#BE0023; color:#fff; width:98%; padding-bottom:0.3em; padding-top:0.3em; padding-left:2%"> Trogdor! </div> =

== Mean to young people? ==

You're my least favorite admin ever.
:Well, <s>''Bubsty''</s> (I was close. See below), one of the things you learn as an admin is that you can't please everybody all the time. I am, however, open to constructive criticism, so I'm a little disappointed that you didn't give me any more to go on than that one line. Or that you didn't at least sign your name. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 20:23, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
::What? Did Bubsty write that? {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 20:37, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
:::Indeed. ''EDIT: Actually, his sister said that it was she who wrote the comment.'' — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]]
::::Or perhaps somebody from his computer or something. He did [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=HRWiki:Da_Basement&diff=prev&oldid=241561 refer to Bubsty in the third person]... {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 00:33, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
:::::How did this person edit da Basement? Didn't you block him for 3 days, TBird? {{User:Heimstern Läufer/sig}} 00:35, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
::::::Yes, he did, but I unblocked the IP, since the edit wasn't trolling or vandalism. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 00:38, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
:::::::I see. And in response to Thunderbird's comment: I don't know that third person is really evidence it wasn't he; he could have been covering his tracks. What ''does'' baffle me, however, is that that IP wrote false information about Bubsty's guestbook being gone, when in fact Bubsty himself removed the deletion tag from his guestbook, something one would think Bubsty would know. {{User:Heimstern Läufer/sig}} 01:14, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
::::::::Haha, I just mentioned that point a minute ago. But on IRC- I didn't bother updating my theory here. Thanks for pointing that out. {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 01:18, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
:::::::::That was me! Not Erik! And he told me he left the wiki, so I thought he had deleted his guestbook too. [[User:Thekillerdynamo|Thekillerdynamo]] 04:03, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
::::::::::<nowiki>*</nowiki>Sigh*. So much for me leaving. Seems I have some explaining to do. Some things to clear this whole thing up:
::::::::::First off, I '''''DID NOT''''' write that comment above. I recently showed Sarah the comment you left on my user talk page a while ago telling me to stop using the list of users list to welcome people. Although I really didn't care that much about what you had written, she seemed to think of it as rude and insulting. I assume that comment was her "blowing off steam".
::::::::::It seems Dot Com thinks Thekillerdynamo is me. If you still have any questions about this whole thing, ''please'' tell me. I'll try to explain it.
::::::::::Finally, I'm really sorry (not to mentioned embarrased), that this whole thing happened. I'll '''try''' to have something like this ''never'' happen again. (Depends if a certain family member agrees).
::::::::::Sincerely,
::::::::::{{User:Bubsty/sig}} 04:22, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
:::::::::::Well, as you can see below, all I knew for sure was that the edits were coming from your house. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 05:21, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
You do a lot on this wiki, but you're mean to the young people here. 10, 11, 12, and 13 year olds shouldn't have to act like a 28-year-old!
Can't you just be a ''bit'' nicer? I think more people would like you then.
Please; I'm not trolling - although I did blank your talk page. But that was so you would see this easier.
If you revert it (which I'm sure you will) can you at least think about being ''nicer''?
Once again, sorry for messing up your talk page. Just please read. Thanks! [[User:24.18.208.18|24.18.208.18]] 04:58, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
:PS: I think you're still a good admin. Just show some commen sense. (Of course, I should talk; Look who's about to get themselves blocked!)
:PPS: Oh, and about my first edit on this page; I admit that was me. But that was back when I didn't know what a wiki was and didn't know who you were. You ''aren't'' my least favorite admin ever. In fact, you're one of my favs! If you want to block me for that, go ahead; I deserve it.
::Why don't you log in so we can discuss this. Talking through an IP address isn't the kind of conversation we should be having. I'm not going to block you. If I wanted to block you, I would have blocked your IP a long time ago. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 05:18, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
:::Ok, I made a user. [[User:That One User|That One User]] 06:29, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
::::I don't mean make a sockpuppet, I mean log in as yourself. You have obviously been around for a bit for you to hold the opinion you do, and, looking closely, you are either Bubsty or, at the very least, someone inside his house. So, c'mon now, Erik, Sarah, whoever... log in for real if you actually want to talk. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 14:05, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
:::::How did you know? [[User:Thekillerdynamo|Thekillerdynamo]] 00:49, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
::::::Hang on now, let me make sure I have this right... You're telling me that someone who has [[Special:Contributions/Thekillerdynamo|18 total contributions]] (as of this writing, none of which are in the article namespace) and to whom the only thing [[User talk:It's dot com/These Peoples Try to Fade Me#Hi_from_Thekillerdynamo|I've ever said]] is "Welcome to the wiki, Sarah! Ask your brother to show you how to sign your name," would suddenly and for no apparent reason get so annoyed with me as to [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:It%27s_dot_com&diff=240812&oldid=240757 put this] on my page? I'm sorry, but that just doesn't add up. Perhaps you could explain yourself a little... or come clean. ;) — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 03:37, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
:::::::Seems odd right? Actully, I've just seen what you've said to other people (like the thing) and what you said to Bubsty that one time. That was why I said "you're my least favorite admin ever". When you said that thing about user welcoming... something like that. But I'm not mad anymore. [[User:Thekillerdynamo|Thekillerdynamo]] 04:01, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
:::::::: Oh, okay then. Please allow me to speak to your points: Occasionally messages must be posted that are stern because it's urgent that the message be understood. (In the case of the message I sent your brother, it was because of the fact that edit summaries can't be changed, and so we have to be careful what we put in them.) I do try, however, never to be insulting, and as I said way back when, I do apologize if he took it that way. Also, I have nothing against young users, and I will happily give assistance to anyone who needs it (just have a look around this talk page). It should be noted that several of our exceptional users, including a sysop, are quite young, relatively speaking. Even though actual age doesn't matter, I don't see anything wrong with expecting a certain level of maturity from our users, once they've had a chance to get the hang of things. The wiki, after all, is not a toy. I think BazookaJoe put it quite well in his message to The thing when he talked about what [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:The_thing&oldid=242251 the purpose] of this wiki is. All of this can only bring us to one conclusion: ...Strong Sad's [[caffeine#Transcript|adopted]]. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 05:21, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

== Well this is (not) nice... ==

I'd just like to bring this to your attention: [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Homestar_Coder&diff=242152&oldid=242150]. --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 03:54, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
:Yeah, I noticed that. I don't know what that guy's deal is. He is addressing Coder, so I'd prefer she be the one to respond to him. That edit could be called trolling (in the true sense of the word), but it's not vandalism. Until and unless he causes more, bigger trouble, I'ma stay out of it. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 04:12, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
::I was thinking it was more along the lines of harassment. --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 04:43, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
:::Still, if she wants to block him, she has the power. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 04:45, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
::::Yeah. Very well I just thought I'd bring that up. Have a good night. --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 04:55, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
:::::Thanks for bringing it up. I'll be keeping an eye on that guy for sure. ;) — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 05:09, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
::::::This guy has some kind of anger management problem, and I think not responding to him is the best course of action. I don't even know where he gets this stuff; I've never blocked him (although I did warn him that he might be blocked for mucking up the Sandbox), called him any names (especially not "incredibly gay" - all the people I've known who are actually incredibly gay are far more mature than that guy ;) ), or confused him with Willy on Wheels. If he wants to periodically upchuck on my talk page, whatever. {{User:Homestar Coder/sig}} 20:14, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
Apparantly this is all because of [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=Character_Evolution&diff=next&oldid=175719 this revert]. I'm really confused as to how posting a few images constitutes two to three hours work as well as hating Homestar Coder for reverting it. Additionally, it didn't really fit; those images were all over the place. — {{User:Lapper/sig}} 01:34, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
:Yeah, I thought I [[User talk:Homestar Coder/MayAug2005#character evolution|explained reasonably]] that the pictures made the page cluttery; at the time, I was also trying to get that page deleted as I considered it redundant with [[:Category:Character Evolution]]. *shrug* {{User:Homestar Coder/sig}} 01:40, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

== Whoa! ==

[http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:It%27s_dot_com&diff=243608&oldid=242626 Wow.] --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 07:02, 21 January 2006 (UTC) (And here I was trying to come up with some cool archive style for mine...)
:It's dot com has archived his talk page? Saddle up my flying pig; I'm goin' ice skating in hell! (But seriously—I'm digging the topical groupings.) —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 07:24, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
::Wow. I love that format! Keep on... making-great-stuff! {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 08:33, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
:::Quite impressive. Looks snazzy, and loads alot faster. Now we've just gotta convince [[User talk:Tom|Tom]]... {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 08:45, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
::::This is the greatest thing ever. Would you mind terribly if I bit your style and did a similar thing? :) {{User:Homestar Coder/sig}} 19:35, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
:::::With a comment like that, how could I possibly refuse? You are more than welcome to take my coolness and rework it to achieve your own brand of awesomeness. (Never mind all that GFDL nonsense.) :) — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 19:56, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
::::::YAYZ. {{User:Homestar Coder/sig}} 20:23, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

== what happened ==

Hey it's dot com, what happened to your discussion page? [[User:Nikolce Kocovski|Nikolce Kocovski]] 01:48, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

:well, he archived it. this means that at the top, you can just go to the links and they will lead you to the headlines. pretty cool, huh?

::Yeah, I just couldn't take all the whining from all you guys anymore. ;) But I figured out a compromise between keeping all the talk on this page and moving it all to an archive, so I went with it. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 21:07, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

:::i wasn't whining. [[User:Nikolce Kocovski|Nikolce Kocovski]] 00:39, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

::::I know. But take a look through the archives and you'll find quite a few requests for me to do so, and there were innumerable chat conversations to that effect as well. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 01:17, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

== i believe... ==
that you are an amazing user. you are just in everything you do. i think it is inspiring how much you care for the betterment of the wiki. you block only the most important users. you recently blocked someone i know. i just want you to know that you are doing the right thing. thank you.
:Is this from [[User:Thatkidyoualllove|Thatkidyoualllove]]? If so, why would you want me to block your brother? You guys must be like my brothers and I are. :) — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 21:07, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
::yeah, he hates my guts. and that's why he will never disobey me and come on a website too cool for him again. heheheh....{{User:Seriously/sig}} 14:05, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

== I want to be a sysop ==

Do you no wen the next sysop election is gonna be? {{User:The thing/sig}} 16:21, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
:Depends on several things. Why do you ask? — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 16:23, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
::I wanna be one. {{User:The thing/sig}} 16:27, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
:::Really? How come? — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 16:29, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
::::I want to be a sysop. --{{User:The thing/sig}} 16:31, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
:::::Right. You just said that. I'm asking why you want to be a sysop. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 16:33, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
::::::Because I want to be able to: Block, Delete, Edit special pages... all the stuff sysops can do. --{{User:The thing/sig}} 16:48, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
:::::::Why do you want to be able to do all those things? — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 16:53, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
::::::::I can't really explain it but I know stuff that should be done that no one has done. --{{User:The thing/sig}} 16:54, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
:::::::::Well, ''try'' to explain. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 16:59, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
::::::::::I know stuff that should be done that no one has done. Like people that should of been blocked pages that needed deletion plus I want to help the wiki as much as I can. --{{User:The thing/sig}} 17:07, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
:::::::::::Who needs to be blocked? Which pages need deletion? — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 17:12, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
::::::::::::Well there gone now but there used to be some. --{{User:The thing/sig}} 17:15, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
:::::::::::::What's gone? The people, or the pages? — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 17:17, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
::::::::::::::If there is a person abusing the Wiki, or a page that doesn't have any need, there are ways of alerting sysops even if you're not one (add abusers to [[HRWiki:WikiTroll]] and add the "tobedeleted" template to bad pages.) --{{User:Jay/sig}} 17:19, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::Both are gone but the main reason I want to be a sysop is so I can help the wiki as much a possible. --{{User:The thing/sig}} 17:21, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::It's admirable to want to help the wiki. We need as many people—sysops and users alike—who will do that.     Around here, we consider several factors when choosing whom to make sysops, and the most important consideration is trustworthiness. A close second is participation in the project. Rounding out the top six are the ability to deal with other users (especially in mediating disputes or deciding when to step in), technical know-how, the necessity for another position (that is, whether or not the wiki needs more sysops at any given time), and finally seniority. ([[bottom 10|Number seven]] on the top-six list is [[Senor Cardgage|senority]], which is the ability to make bad H*R-related jokes.)     With those things in mind, at this time I would not be comfortable with making you a sysop. Not long ago, you vandalized this wiki and less than a day ago you were blocked from the fanstuff wiki for persistent trolling. I think it will take a while for people to trust you again after that. Additionally, you currently don't meet the [[User_talk:It%27s_dot_com/Let%27s_Get_Started_on_Doing_All_Those_Awesome_Things_I_Suggested#How_to_become_a_sysop|participation requirements]]. That is, you really don't have that many edits in the main or talk namespace nor have you done a big project. I haven't seen how you handle stress or abuse from problematic users and I don't know the status of your technical know-how (again, because I don't have a large sample of edits from which to judge). Last (and this one matters the least to me but is nevertheless important) there's the question of seniority: In other words, even if all else were equal, quite a few deserving people have been here a lot longer than you, and would thus be ahead of you in line whenever we promote the next user(s).     Please don't think I'm trying to be overly discouraging, but your persistence in asking has made me want to be as unambiguous as possible. (By the way, asking for a position of power—no matter where you are (except maybe Wikipedia)—is a sure way to guarantee that the position will ''not'' be handed to you. Just so you know.) I encourage you to read the link above about the requirements and follow its advice. Over time, perhaps a long time, if you make good contributions and keep your nose clean, then you might be more seriously considered. Until then, keep on tranglin'. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 18:45, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

:::::::::::::::::Darn --{{User:The thing/sig}} 19:15, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

To The Thing: Personally, I'd love to be able to do all those things as well, but being given a position of power doesn't come free - [[Halloween Potion-ma-jig|You just gotta ''earn'' it!]] And to It's dot com: I found this whole conversation quite amusing. :) {{User:KieferSkunk/sig}} 01:51, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps there should be a page devoting to answering the question "How do I become a sysop?" I see it asked a LOT. {{User:Homestar Coder/sig}} 01:54, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
:Perhaps part of the FAQ? {{User:KieferSkunk/sig}} 01:57, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

::I really liked your idea, KieferSkunk, and decided to '''be bold''' and add it myself. It's composed mainly from the large paragraph above, but also from the talk section it links to, and my personal knowledge. — {{User:Lapper/sig}} 02:34, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

:::'''It's dot com:''' Yada yada yada sysop yada yada trust yada seniority yada yada yada edits yada yada yada long speech yada yada... 
:::'''The thing:''' Darn 
{{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 01:59, 24 January 2006 (UTC) P.S. No offense to either of you. I just found that funny.

== i'm back ==
hey, it's dot com. i just got unblocked this morning. i want to say you did the right thing, and that now i will probably be spending less time on the wiki, so when i get blocked the next time it won't suck so bad. ah well. anyway, like i said, you did the completely right thing, and i hope you become an admin for what you did. thanks.
p.s. if i get blocked another time, please make it indefinite. {{User:Seriously/sig}} 14:02, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

:um....[[User: Yeltensic]] just made a rude remark on the guestbook discussion page, and you should check it out. {{User:Seriously/sig}} 14:55, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

::I am aware of it and have posted comments. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 15:04, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

:::good. that was just plain crude. if he pulls some stunt like that again just because [[User: Darth Katana X|Darth Katana X]] told him to, i suggest you block him. look on yeltensic's talk page if you don't know what i am talking about. {{User:Seriously/sig}} 15:06, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
::::Well I found out about the discussion from Darth, but I didn't "pull some stunt like that" because Darth told me to, he didn't tell me to do that. So leave Darth out of it, he didn't do anything (well maybe he did, but if so it was unrelated). [[User:Yeltensic|Yeltensic]] [[User talk:Yeltensic|Save the guestbooks]] 21:21, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

== Name Change ==

Hi It's dot com. I'm that user "It's dot org". I was going to tell you I was going to change my user name because it was to close to yours but I was blocked. Can you unblock me? And just so you know I would like to change my username from "It's dot org" to "Wagon fulla pancakes". Thanks. [[User:Homesarrunner|Homesarrunner]]
:Sorry, but that's already taken. What else would you like? — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 21:09, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

HRWiki talk:Guestbooks

Yeltensic — Tue, 24 Jan 2006 21:10:16 GMT

Yeltensic: /* Comments */

==Guestbooks==
Recently, some users have [[#Original discussion|discussed]] the current guestbook situation, and we are formally proposing to get rid of guestbooks. Please note that this decision is still being decided, and is not policy yet. If you wish to give us your opinion on this, then please tell us here.

{| class="messagebox" style="background-color: #ffffc0; text-align: center; border: 1px #f0f080 solid; font-size: 90%; color:darkred;" |
| style="border: 1px #f0f080 solid;" | '''Note: This discussion has grown quite lengthy, but several people have made important points on both sides of the issue, so ''please'' be sure to read all the way to the very end of this thread. You can also use the history page to help keep track of the progress of the discussion.'''
|-
| style="border: 1px #f0f080 solid;" | '''Please be aware that there are several questions to be answered, so don't forget to give an opinon in each of the sections.'''
|} 
===End the practice of guestbooks===
====Support====
# See reasons at the [[#Original discussion|original discussion]]. {{User:Rogue Leader/sig}} 00:11, 22 January 2006 (UTC).
# If it's for the good of the Wiki, guestbooks should go. {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 00:20, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
# — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 00:26, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
# See Rogue Leader's comment. --{{User:Venusy/Sig}} 00:33, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
# I'll go along with this - don't have a strong opinion on guestbooks, personally. {{User:KieferSkunk/sig}} 00:37, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
# See Venusy's comment. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]] 00:38, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
# If it's for the greater good of the wiki, I gotta vote to get rid of 'em. {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 01:00, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
# See reasons at the original discussion --{{User:bkmlb/sig}} 02:51, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
# I want people to read my user page, not just to sign it without knowing what else is there. {{User:Dantheburgerking/sig}} 03:17, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
# Don't really see the point of them. There's nothing a gues book can do that a User talk page can't. -[[User:AtionSong|AtionSong]] 04:00, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
# When it comes to the point that the only reason people come to the Wiki is so they can sign guestbooks, it's time for them to go (especially when people are trying to get a certain amount by a certain date.) I didn't mind guestbooks until Recent Changes had more "User:" edits than it did actual articles. We had this problem with the old wiki; nobody did anything except talk to each other and create fanstuff. This is not a free chatting site for other Homestar Runner fans, this is an encyclopedia. User pages are to make a brief description about yourself, not to have a blockquote with 20-something signatures in it. If you want to talk to other Homestar Runner fans, go create a Myspace or something. {{User:FireBird/sig}} 03:20, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
# See my comment below. {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 06:37, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
# See comment below. {{User:The Chort/sig}} 13:57, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
# They were fun at first, but now it's just taking up space. I would appriciate it if we could let them go. — {{User:Lapper/sig}} 14:29, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
# Ditto Ation. -[[User:Ookelaylay|אוקאלייליי (Ookelaylay)]]
# [[User:Homsad|Homsad]] I agree with the guys at the original discussion. Delete them!
#{{User:Some HSR themed username/sig}} 17:01, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#{{User:Teh_Frossty_One/sig}} 17:50, 22 January 2006 (UTC) Yeah, I'm gonna have to go with Ation here.
#[[User:68.161.144.158|68.161.144.158]] 19:44, 22 January 2006 (UTC) I don't want to shuffle through countless guestbook edits to find vandalism. If you want to compliment somebody, use their talkpage.
#:Hey there, 68.161.144.158. Do you have a user account? If so, you should use it when posting on this page. Thanks. Anonymous votes will not figure much (if at all) into the final tally. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 19:46, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
# I wouldn't mind not having guestbooks (even though I did like signing them, the wiki's better off without them). {{User:Kilroy/sig}} 21:49, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#I have to agree with Kilroy. We are better off without them. {{User:Bluebry muffin/sig}} 21:50, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#They don't bother me, but if they bother other people, let's scrap them. I'm #22! WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!! (that's what we're trying to avoid, right?) {{User:Trey56/sig}} 03:50, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
#They don't show that you like the site, it just shows that you can sign a guestbook. [[User:Nintendogs123|Nintendogs123]] 07:00, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
#{{User:Homestar Coder/sig}} 09:30, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
# {{User:Total Spaceship Guy3/sig}} 10:39, 23 January 2006 (UTC) I stand beside all off you on this. DELETE THEM! WHEEEEEEE!
# For the reasons stated by [[User:FireBird|Firebird]] above. {{User:The Paper/sig}} 14:33, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
# Delort 'em. I only made one because I thought everyone else had one. The arguments to keep them seem to boil down to "hey, I like guestbooks, what's the big deal?" and "they encourage interaction". Seems to me they encourage a kind of interaction that is in conflict with the goals of a good wiki. Baleet 'em. {{User:Bill Martinson/sig}} 18:04, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
#[[User:Mycroft.holmes|Mycroft Holmes]] 20:15, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
# I've never seen the point of guestbooks, shoutboards, and other such features. If people want to holla at someone, let 'em leave a message on the talk page. The site will only get bigger from here anyway, and anything we can do to conserve space is okay in my book. - [[User:Octan|Octan]] 2006-01-23, 15:16 (EST)

====Oppose====
#I want the sweet sweet guestbooks. They let other users know they are there. --{{User:The thing/sig}} 13:48, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:Amost all of the people I know on the Wiki are from my or someone else's guestbook. Guestbooks make relationships! [[User:Bluebry muffin|Bluebry]] 03:11, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#::Guestbooks make relationships, granted, but that's not the only way to make relationships. This H*R knowledge-base wiki is not designed to be a place to hang out and socialize. That's what the forums and [[HRWiki:IRC channel|IRC channel]] are for. The proper way to make relationships on this wiki is to make good edits; eventually people will notice you. One can supplement relationship-building through other venues while editing the wiki the way it was intended. —[[User:BazookaJoe|BazookaJoe]] 03:25, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#Probably not as strong a point, but I like knowing that people have at least visited my page. I don't have a lot to offer on my page and I would actually like some comments. Restricting them to the talk page is probably best. [[User:NFITC1|NFITC1]] 03:39, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:I think that would be a good point ''if'' signing a guestbook meant that someone had actually looked at the page. When it's just a game, however, to see how many you can find and sign, it loses all meaning. Also, notice the little counter down at the bottom (where it says "This page has been accessed ''n'' times"). You can track that number to see how many people are visiting your page. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 04:03, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#::I can't speak for everyone else, but I at least read a page before signing a guest book. I thought that was the whole idea of one: letting the user know '''who it was''' that read the page rather than how many people have. [[User:NFITC1|NFITC1]] 20:00, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:::And we appreciate that you read the pages. Unfortunately, as illustrated by the snippet from the recent changes in the comments section below, those who sign after reading are now a dwindling few. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 20:38, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#Is there anything wrong with guestbooks?--{{User:Benol/sig}} 15:00, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:Benol, you should read the guestbook discussion [[#Original discussion|below]]. {{User:The Chort/sig}} 15:22, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#The guestbooks aren't killing anyone, they're just fun. Why should we all act like a bunch of proper stuck ups on a Homestar Runner fan site? Now, if this were turning into a trend on Wikipedia, that'd be one thing, but this is a wiki on a silly, fun cartoon, and guestbooks are one of my fondest memories of this web site. What's next, will saying things like "ARROW'D!" be banned? Of course, I'm sure everyone is going to hate on me now and diss me like a bunch of geeks and nerds, just like what they did when somebody proposed that they could be saying "Strong Bad paints Marzipan" in [[Strong Bad is a Bad Guy]]. {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}
#:Just for info: ''I'' was the one who proposed that. I don't exactly recall being catcalled about it. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
#::Yeah, I noticed it was you right after I posted that. Well, I remembered everyone dissing you for that. There have been other times that users have been treated like crap for having a different opinion, though, and that wasn't a very good example, I guess. {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}
#:::I agree, this may seem a bit extreme to some, but this part of the ''HRWiki'' family of websites is primarily for [[the facts]]. A more relaxed, "anything goes" atmosphere exists at the Fanstuff Wiki. Though this site isn't Wikipedia, we still strive to emulate their formal style, and attempt to limit most of our work here to building the Knowledge Base. {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 05:26, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#::::Yeah, that's a good point. We should probably be on the look out for more things in Homestar Runner to pick at until they're not even funny anymore. For a more formal atmosphere, how about we all strangle each other as we argue over fhqwhgads? Is she a wiffle ball? Are [http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fhqwhgads Urban Dictionary's] theories true? And only we visiting the Fanstuff Wiki should watch Homestar for fun. Instead, let's try to find Homestar as boring as possible, so that all we can do is analyze crap.
#::::So, who's with me? Are we going to save the guestbooks, or are we going to suck all the life out of the wiki and make pages like [[Strong Bad Saying, "I Mean I (Did Something)"]] until nobody visits besides us? All right, perhaps I went a bit far. Anybody who's offended, no hard feelings. I just want sweet guestbook freedom. {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}
#:::::Uh, ok. Did you even bother to read the reasons why we wish to get rid of guestbooks? We are just trying to make life easier for patrollers. Besides, signing a guestbook does not mean that you are even remotely interested in their page. It just shows that you have a fast mouse and tilde finger. {{User:Rogue Leader/sig}} 06:29, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#::::::Look, I hate to have the whole site against me, especially since I probably won't have as much luck winning you guys back as Strong Bad does, but no, I didn't read the excuse list. Why, because I know it won't affect my opinion on guestbooks. In my experience, I've visited way more talk pages thanks to guestbooks, and I actually check out what's there, so that I can get to know a little more about these peoples before I post. But if you'd like to liberate the site from those ridiculous fan activities, go ahead. I'll keep doing what I'm doing even if it means getting banned! I feel a song, erm, rap coming on...
#::::::(Do not tell me what I can and cannot do when I rock) WHEN I ROCK, WHEN I ROCK...
#::::::DO, DO, DO, '''DO NOT'''! Tell me what I can and cannot do when I rock! Original material my crew nonstop! We're keeping it fly and we'll turn it out, y'all feeling some of that? No doubt! Yes, that's right, I'm keeping my guestbook up no matter what! And maybe some people will respect me for my independence, but I seriously doubt that. {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}
#:::::::1) John Rue is a good man. 2) Breathe. Nothing's happening one way or the other for at least ten days. While persuasive oratory is called for, panic isn't; it's not like guestbooks are dead unless everyone's convinced in the next couple of hours. 3) You're not alone, per se; although I'm far from strongly supporting guestbooks, I don't strongly oppose them. 4) Since time ''isn't'' of the essence, '''do''' take the time to read the rest of this conversation (and also where it [[#Original discussion|started]]). It helps to know what's already been said. 5) Although I'm sure the shock got your fight-or-flight reflexes going, so far no one ''is'' hating on anyone; the conversation so far has been civilized and non-angry. I really hope it stays that way through its course; please help it do so. 6) In closing, I'd just like to make sure it doesn't go unnoticed that a recent edit included the words "That's a big but." —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 07:18, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#::::::::Mr. Katana (or should I call you Mr. X?), Like a wise user once said to me when I was just new to the wiki and didn't have a username: "''sarcasm doesn't exactly work wonders while attempting to argue a point''". And now for the actual reply. We all want to have friends and meet new ones. If this fact was false we wouldn't have such sites as MySpace. Yes, the wiki is a way to make friends, contrary to what some people were saying here, and no, the Fanstuff is not the only place to goof around. But (and that's a big but) making friends through random signatures left on your userpage is not the way to do it. Some userpages told the signers to leave a comment next to their sig. While some posted things like "Thenks for helping me" or "We had fun that one time", alot of them left comments like "Yay! I'm number 27!" or "What? Another guestbook?!" showing that they don't really care about you, your userpage or how good your edits are. It just became a wall intended to be place for art pieces but ended up for ugly graffiti. If you want to make friends, have you thought of going to the chatroom? Having a project, a big one? Think about the wiki as school. An open one where you can make everything. Do you make friends by going to random people with a pen and writing something on their back? Or do you make friends by making something beautiful for all to see? {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 06:58, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:::::::::First off, check what I posted before I was editing conflict'd. And second, too much ugly graffiti? I love too much ugly graffiti! No, seriously, where I come from graffiti is the finest art form around, but that's not really the point. This wiki isn't a school, unless it's the Crazy Go Nuts University, and I couldn't give a crap less whether people care about me or not, as you can plainly see. That's how I met basically everyone here, and that's how I met all my friends here who probably all hate me now. Anyway, even if it is a big waste of time, it's just freaking user pages, not actual articles, and from what I know, these guestbooks haven't caused any tragedy. So there, ban me for my guestbook. It's a Free Country, USA and I will not be silenced! {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}
#::::::::::1) Please see my most recent edit above. 2) Yeah, I've made the school analogy before, but I was just thinking "everything that's ''good'' or has the potential to be good about school, hopefully without the really crappy side effects." I.e. ideally it ''would'' be a place for creativity, spontaneity, and individual expression, plus communal, supportive collaboration, but without getting stuffed into lockers or simply called a dumb***. Hopefully it would ''not'' be a militaristic institution for the mass-producing of servile factory fodder either. 3) I'd be really surprised if anybody on the wiki hates you right now, ''including'' those with the opposite opinion on this argument. Guestbooks ''do'' make friendships (though meaningful talk page edits do so even better), and if the friends mean more to you than the guestbook, then even if guestbooks go the way of MXPX ''and'' the buffalo, you'll have what mattered in the first place. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 07:28, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:::::::::::Yeah, we're on the same page. Or, more accurately, we're on two different pages which are right next to each other, but that counts too. One thing though, I don't think MXPX will be taking the buffalo route any time soon - I just heard them on [http://www.tv.com/users/DarthKatanaX/profile.php?action=show_blog&entry=175628 Burnout Revenge] and all. So, to close it up, I'll halfta go check that out, and hopefully none of my friends will take my flames personally. You might want to check out the Fight for the Guestbooks on my talk page, anyway. {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}
#::::::::::::Not long ago, before guestbooks were popular, we ''still'' managed to communicate, form friendships, plan projects, and so on... through the use of ''talk threads'' and ''IRC chat''. No one is going to be asking you to stop communicating. No one is going to prevent you from reading user pages and posting meaningful comments on the talk pages. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 16:11, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:::::::::::::The advantage of a guestbook, of course, is that it ''solicits'' input from other users, where as an "unadvertised" talk page isn't likely to get unprovoked discussion that often. I ''have'' seen several creative examples of snagging input (input beyond a signature) already in play, though: I mentioned [[User:Has Matt?|Has Matt]]'s list of things Homsar should say; Heimstern's recurring [[User:Heimstern Läufer#German translation fun|German H*R quote]] also springs to mind, as does Tony Stony's [[User:Tony Stony#Me (screenshot from iMirror)|Frankenpic]]. These 1) provoke people to sign, 2) are H*R related and require H*R skillz, and 3) are fun. I think they'd do what guestbooks set out to do, but do so much better. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 20:18, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#I think having a guestbook is a good idea; i would however support the concept of moving them to a subpage. {{User:DJ Teh Cheat/sig}} 16:38, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#Same here. I didn't see an option to vote for that however. That would clear up the problem of confusing the edits with userpage vandalism. {{User:Smileyface11945/sig}} 00:05, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
#I don't want to get rid of my guestbook. They let people know they've arrived. --{{User:The 386/sig}} 17:07, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:Well, all it really lets you know is that they arrived at your guestbook. There's no real reason to expect—or even believe—that the person was on your page any longer than the time it took to type <code><nowiki>#~~~~</nowiki></code>. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 17:13, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#I want 'em, but keep one only and keep 'em friendly, not competitive. {{User:LePorello/sig}} 19:19, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#{{User:Marth 99/sig}} 22:05, 22 January 2006 (UTC) I'm with LePorello. I've never been competitive about these, and besides, like Darth said, they're just fun. I don't feel they are interfering with the wiki.
#:Perhaps you should see the recent changes snippet from earlier today in the comments section below (featuring none other than LePorello's edits). I'm wondering what your (and his) reply would be to my remarks there. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 22:29, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#::That's just one person. Although I agree with his statement, I don't agree with rapid signing. I, like Has Matt, look at a person's page before signing it. I give a short comment and I occasionally get a response as well. That works better that marathon signing. {{User:Marth 99/sig}} 22:39, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:::We wouldn't be having this discussion if it were just one person. When it comes to the point that you need an entire page devoted to a subject just to discuss it, that's indicative of an actual problem. Some of the replies in this section would make it sound like we're want to stop people from saying they like someone's page or from communicating at all. ''This is not the case.'' You would still be perfectly free to post comments in threads on the talk page, just like always. I think that's an even better way to get a response and start a dialogue that could lead to a friendship. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 22:52, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#::::Ooooh. Didn't realize I was being a rapid-signing idiot there. Hence, I now resolve to actually read the user pages '''before''' signing guestbooks. (This doesn't change my vote. I'm still for 'em.) {{User:LePorello/sig}} 23:26, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#"Countless guestbook edits"? I think some of the supporters are exaggerating a bit. {{User:Salty/sig}} 01:33, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
#:Apparently, you do not read recent changes. Recently, there has been a ''huge'' spike in recent user page edits. This is problematic for people who patrol, since this was almost always trolling before guestbooks. {{User:Rogue Leader/sig}} 02:45, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
#Although I don't really care about them, they haven't been bugging me at all. I don't mind if they stay, personally. - {{User:Joshua/sig}} 02:11, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
# I agree with LePorello. Only one, keep em friendly. [[User:TheGreatLogini|TheGreatLogini]] 12:47, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
#I think we should be able to keep our guestbooks if we want to. {{User:Tampo/sig}} 16:48, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
# This is a bittersweet oppose. I have a guestbook and I like it. I like seeing who has read my page. I think I was one of the original 6 guestbooks and my guest book dates back to October. I have even put up cute things to try to get a few certain people **cough cough**JoeyDay, Tom, HomestarCoder, Phlip, Joshua, Jay, The Paper, DorianGray, FireBird **cough cough** to sign it. I wish we can roll back the clock or restirct the creation of new guestbooks (grandfather the old ones in). I think the reason that Userpage edits have skyrocketed is that TBC haven't put a lot out lately and frankly I'm bored. Today I logged in about 4 times (because its a monday) and once I saw that there is no new toon, I check out user pages of my comrads. As I seem to be seriously outnumbered, I will delete mine if it comes to that but I will be sad to see it go. {{User:Invisible_Robot_Fish/sig}} 18:47, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
#I don't see anything wrong with guestbooks. The primary "problem" seems to be that it floods Recent Changes. Increase the number of things that appear in Recent Changes, then. Besides, it's not like other things don't flood Recent Changes (Image templates, category additions, bots, etc). The other problem was that there's an increasing number of edits that have to be checked for vandalism. As the wiki grows, there'll be more edits, user namespace or otherwise. It's not that hard to check edits for vandalism. And that's my six cents. -- {{User:Super_Sam/sig}} 10:47, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
#:Read the page. The primary "problem" is not the recent changes. That's a side effect. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]]
#Keep the guestbooks, they're cool to have. If you're so terribly worried about recent changes, then just move guestbooks to the talkpage or a subpage. And to the people who say that guestbooks should be banned because you think they are pointless, well that's the most retarded thing I've heard lately, if you don't care for them then JUST DON'T USE THEM! And the claims about recent changes flooding sound pretty hyped up, the same kind of crap I hear from the opponents of userboxes on Wikipedia. [[User:Yeltensic|Yeltensic]] 14:31, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
#:Once again, recent changes is just the straw that broke the camel's back. The real problem is that guestbooks have become a mere shell of what they were intended to be. Since there are real and better ways of communicating, we are going to do away with guestbooks in favor of talk threads. On another note, it's not like everybody doesn't know what the word is there that you "censored", and it is not appropriate for this discussion. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 15:02, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
#::OK, It's dot com, I removed it. Happy now? I just get tired of all this crap, all of these people who insist upon removing something others like, just because they disagree. OK, so use talk threads instead if you like, but ''why not just have both''? Seriously, what's wrong with having options? [[User:Yeltensic|Yeltensic]] 17:39, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
#I think that we should keep the guestbooks. I mean, I always enjoy signing a guestbook. It's always fun to look and see who visited your page. I always enjoy it when people sign my page. It just lets you know that there are people that look at your page. I support them. They may be pointless, but they're fun and interesting. I mean, if you got rid of everything pointless, where would I be?--{{User:Homsarroks/sig}} 17:17, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

====Comments====
* The primary objections seem to be 1) that they make userpage vandalism harder to spot, and 2) they make a lot of "empty" edits to check out in general. Stux suggested restricting them to User Talk pages; although it wouldn't solve the second issue it would solve the first. Although I don't like them, I'm not so sure they need to go entirely; they ''do'' have some benefit in community-building, plus banning them even from talk pages seems a little draconian. (If the defense were that they're not wiki-related talk, many of us would be [[User talk:AbdiViklas#Solfège...|guilty]].) Certainly only one per user per lifetime should be allowed, but I'm not ready to vote to end them entirely and everywhere. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 01:24, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*:I think the reason that people are ready to get rid of them entirely is because they are not being used as real guestbooks. A signature on one does not mean that the user page was appreciated or even read. Some users actively campaign (via talk page spam) to try and get more signatures, which just drives up frivolous edits more. This is why I believe they should be eliminated, not just moved. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 01:33, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*I wish there was some way to keep certain guestbooks, such as the ones that were around before they were a fad, or the ones used actually as guestbooks, not as a challenge to see how many signatures they can get by a certain date... But there's not really a way to fairly decide that, is there? {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 01:02, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*:Yeah, it's kind of like when one noisy student ruins the field trip for the whole class. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 01:53, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*::I hear you, Thunderbird. But yes, that ''would'' be quite difficult to justify reasonably: "Your guestbook is appropriately motivated; you can keep it! But ''your'' guestbook is a mercenary guestbook; you can't!" I personally don't find the argument of function compelling (not "proper" guestbooks); frivolous edit and talk page spamming ''are'' concerns, though. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 01:50, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*Since I seem to be saying a lot in defense of guestbooks, I just want to play the other side for a sec.: There's no reason people can't simply link to blogs or personal websites which have guestbooks of their own. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 01:50, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*:Just curious, but why ''are'' you saying so much in the defense of guestbooks? You don't have one. Almost none of the people with whom you collaborate most often have one. Have you ever formed a meaningful friendship through one? I myself have signed a few guestbooks (back when that's what they were), but nothing substantial came of it. Again, I'm just curious. :) — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 16:11, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*::Right; not only do I not have one, but I've never bothered to sign one that I can remember. It's not ''just'' that I'm playing Devil's Advocate, arguing for them since there seemed to be few voices for them at first; I do actually feel that they don't necessarily need to go. Mind, I ''definitely'' think at the least "guestbook reform" is necessary, and would like to see their form and function not only preserved but improved; I just have misgivings about a cold-turkey crackdown. I'm certainly not going to be broken up if they go, since I don't think they're doing as much good or meaning as much as their owners perceive them to, but I'd like to keep the "anything goes in your userspace ''except''" list no longer than necessary. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 20:08, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*If this thing didn't evolve to be a fad I would even fight for the right to keep them. But now they just litter the recent changes page. This days are the first time I had to use the MainSpace filter to a actually ''see'' the edits {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 06:38, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*Finally! I am so tired of this stupid fad! You sign one guestbook, another million pop up. They serve no purpose to the wiki and, frankly, they're now really unoriginal. Are we just owning and signing guestbooks because everyone else is? I mean, when it comes to taste, everyone just follows each other like sheep. Why else are the music charts here in England full of crap? {{User:The Chort/sig}} 13:57, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*:By the way, if you haven't liked them, there's always been an avenue of dissent: not to sign them. I've never quite figured out the cases where somebody signs a guestbook and simultaneously complains about it. Seems to me by signing you'd just be helping them spread. (I know, there can be social obligation, etc. Just saying.) —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 20:08, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*::Ok, I confess. Like many other users, I just sign guestbooks to increase the number of links to ''my'' user page! Yes, I know. It's a form of self-advertising. Stick your signature everywhere and more people visit your user page. Besides, all I put is "My autograph? Sure!", giving no feedback whatsoever. I use talk pages to do that. I should probably be locked away for such crimes. Anyway, the main thing is that these points alone probably show why we should get rid of them. {{User:The Chort/sig}} 16:37, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
*just because you consider it a fad, it's a USER PAGE. as in, the USER gets to decide what to do with it. and if they want a guestbook, it's not up for the wiki to decide. this sounds like a meaningless rule designed to give more control to a humble majority. "I don't like jumproping! nobody else can jumprope from now on!"{{User:DJ Teh Cheat/sig}} 16:39, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*:Actually, user page control is not absolute. We do give quite a bit of leeway as to what you can put on a user page, but there are [[HRWiki:User_space#What_should_I_avoid.3F|certain restrictions]]. If the community decides (and not by just a simple majority) that it's best if we eliminate guestbooks, then we will. But we're not taking this decision lightly—It has simply reached a boiling point. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 16:49, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*::Right; despite what I ''just'' said a few edits above about "anything goes in your userspace except," it's ''not'' your private property, and it ''is'' for the wiki to do decide. As is stated somewhere in the restrictions It's dot com just linked to, you can find unfettered freedom of personal expression simply by linking to an external site. You can ''even'' host a guestbook there and link to it! —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 20:08, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*Is there a way to keep any user X's guestbook at "User:X/guestbook" and modify code somewhere to make it so that no changes made to to pages of the form "User:X/guestbook" would appear in the Recent changes log? (I understand this opens the door for unchecked vandalism.) {{User:Trey56/sig}} 17:46, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*:Well, it would be possible from a technical standpoint, but I'm not very comfortable with random users' edits not showing up in the recent changes. Besides, the recent changes flood is just an annoying ''symptom'' of the underlying cause (that guestbooks aren't being used as intended). — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 18:17, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
<blockquote class="plainlinks">
*([http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=User:Darthvader66&curid=13738&diff=244680&oldid=243943 diff]) ([http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=User:Darthvader66&curid=13738&action=history hist]) . . [[User:Darthvader66]]; 18:24 . . [[User:LePorello|LePorello]] ([[User talk:LePorello|Talk]]) ([[User:Darthvader66#Guest_Book|→]]Guest Book)
*([http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=User:Nintendostar_Runner&curid=17721&diff=244679&oldid=244633 diff]) ([http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=User:Nintendostar_Runner&curid=17721&action=history hist]) . . [[User:Nintendostar Runner]]; 18:23 . . [[User:LePorello|LePorello]] ([[User talk:LePorello|Talk]]) ([[User:Nintendostar_Runner#Guestbook|→]]Guestbook)
*([http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=User:Gnome_of_Fury&curid=17483&diff=244678&oldid=244623 diff]) ([http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=User:Gnome_of_Fury&curid=17483&action=history hist]) . . [[User:Gnome of Fury]]; 18:22 . . [[User:LePorello|LePorello]] ([[User talk:LePorello|Talk]]) ([[User:Gnome_of_Fury#Surprise.2C_surprise.2C_it.27s_another_frickin.27_guestbook.21|→]]Surprise, surprise, it's another frickin' guestbook!)
</blockquote>
*These three consecutive edits illustrate the supporters' positions precisely: If you were a speed reader, you ''might'' could get through all three of those pages in less than a minute each, but would you have enjoyed the experience at all? I think not. Those who would read a user page are no longer signing guestbooks, and those who now sign guestbooks are just clogging up the recent changes. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 19:52, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*:I have to say that I am not a person that goes on a random guestbook signing spree, subsequently clogging up recent changes. If I find a user page which I haven't read, I read it, if I am interested and have time, and if that user has a guestbook, I sign it as well. I do not just look for the guestbook on a page and see how many I can sign in a minute. However, I know I can't speak for the rest of the Wiki, which is why we are having this conversation in the first place. You have to admit, whether you like it or not, guestbooks have affected this Wiki in a huge way; some think it's affected it for the good, some think for the bad. I know that a lot of friends have been made through guestbooks, and that they can be utilized to function in a positive fashion, but I also have to admit that they have caused a lot of problems in the Wiki as well. I am not a strong supporter or opposer of the idea of taking away guestbooks. It does seem kinda totalitarian and 1984-ish to ban guestbooks from the Wiki, but on the other hand, this Wiki's main purpose is not to have fun, but to document anthing and everything Homestar Runner. While there are a lot of ways we can have fun in the process of doing that, it seems as if guestbooks have ventured beyond the realm of a fun, innocent little thing that shows how valued you are to a way to get attention and compete to be the first one to sign. {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 21:10, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*::i agree with the beginning of what has matt just said. not everyone just goes on for a guestbook, and if you think it clogs up the recent changes, '''deal with it.''' that is just the way it goes. i know lots of people have made friends, i would too if i felt like being an actual user. guestbooks are good. [[User:69.162.201.219|69.162.201.219]] 00:43, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
*:::We ''have'' been dealing with it... for a while now. If they weren't being abused I would happily continue dealing with it. But since other, more productive ways to get to know each other can take their place (like talk threads), we'd rather stop dealing with it because we're ''tired'' of dealing with it. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 00:52, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
*::::true, i must admit. it's just that guestbooks seem like, almost....icebreakers. you are not going to go to a talk page and type, "want to be my friend?" instead, you will have signatures that you will go to, and their you will laugh at the stuff they say. then you will eventually just leave notes on their talk pages, and it will be great. [[User:69.162.201.219|69.162.201.219]] 01:00, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
* To be honest, I don't think the "Recent Changes Flooding" argument is a particularly strong one. Whenever I look at Recent Changes, the two things that catch my eye a lot more than Guestbook entries, even frequent ones, are the occasional flood of <nowiki>{{web-screenshot}}</nowiki> and similar edits that go on a lot of images all at once, and when users make a whole bunch of minor edits to their sigs, their user pages, etc., all at once. (I'm guilty of doing this myself now and then.) Very rarely do I see guestbooks as causing a lot of spam in the Recent Changes list, and they personally don't bother me. {{User:KieferSkunk/sig}} 05:15, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
*:The web-screenshot floods are a necessary evil for us not getting sued (and I'm not getting into that now) and will stop the moment the project is done. If users would just learn to use the "Show preview" button before all those minor changes it wouldn't flood the RC page. The only thing that is left flooding is the guestbooks, and we are discussing those right now. Please don't try to change the subject or pointing the finger on other stuff. {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 07:25, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
*::Besides, KieferSkunk, the point I keep trying to make is that the recent changes flood is just indicative of a bigger problem. But never mind that for a second... You can easily hide image edits by switching the namespace to "Image" and pressing "Invert selection". (Also, once we finally get all the images tagged, we won't have those floods anymore.) I sometimes use the same trick with the "User" namespace just so I can see the "real" edits, but this isn't a viable option in the long run for patrollers because vandalism would go completely unchecked. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 10:56, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
*:::I realize that, and I'm not trying to change the subject or point fingers. I'm just pointing out that, to me personally, the Guestbook-related edits don't bother me - they seem to take up much less room in Recent Changes (at least whenever I look at them) than other edits, and I just sorta tune them out most of the time. I don't see it as being as significant a problem as others do, apparently. {{User:KieferSkunk/sig}} 20:13, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
*Has it occurred to anyone that since a guestbook generally has its own subheading on a userpage, the word "guestbook" or some form thereof automatically appears in the edit summary, meaning that they can easily be distinguished from userpage vandalism on recent changes? And that's really the whole case against them, the recent changes problem, is it not? [[User:Yeltensic|Yeltensic]] [[User talk:Yeltensic|Save the guestbooks]] 19:06, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
*:No, as Dot com explained in response to your comment above, the recent changes problem is NOT the primary problem. The primary problem is that guestbooks are not being used reasonably - there's too many instances of "I need to sign as many guestbooks as possible / get as many sigs as possible in the shortest period of time." {{User:Homestar Coder/sig}} 19:09, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
*:Perhaps I should clarify. What I meant is that the recent changes problem is the only ''valid'' concern. The fact that you dislike them, or the way that they are use, is not a valid concern as far as grounds for banning them. For instance, I don't like rap music, does that mean it should be illegal? No, of course not, because other people like it. [[User:Yeltensic|Yeltensic]] [[User talk:Yeltensic|Save the guestbooks]] 21:10, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
*::Yeltensic, I find it ironic that by blindly signing as many guestbooks as you can find [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=Yeltensic&limit=28&go=first as fast as you can] you are essentially proving the supporters' two main points. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 19:53, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
*::Good job, you just completely missed what I was doing. I was a) trying to fit in as many self-ads as possible before guestbooks are banned, and b) protesting this laughably absurd policy proposal. As I've wondered on my userpage, is there some conspiracy going on that spans two sites, Wikipedia and HRWiki? It's odd that the absurd "guestbook crisis" here was made up around the same time as the "userbox crisis" over there. [[User:Yeltensic|Yeltensic]] [[User talk:Yeltensic|Save the guestbooks]] 21:10, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
*A teeny little bit of Devil's advocate here: So, there's a part of me that wonders if this fad would just go away if we left it alone. I find that, with the exception of those who are protesting this proposed ban, people are becoming less interested in guestbooks (notice how many people deleted their guestbooks right about the time Bubsty left). Maybe I haven't been looking at the right times, though. I guess I just wanted to get it out there that it ''might'' not be necessary to carry out this ban. Like I said, though, this is largely Devil's advocate; I'm not really against getting rid of guestbooks. Thanks for putting up with my rambling. {{User:Heimstern Läufer/sig}} 20:03, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
*:Then again, I'm just realizing now that the disapperance of some guestbooks (mostly by good users) means that a greater portion are of the existing guestbooks are frivolous. So, maybe that's a good reason to go ahead with the ban. {{User:Heimstern Läufer/sig}} 20:09, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

<center><hr width=70%></center>

===If the consensus is to end the practice, then what?===
====Delete them altogether====
#— [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 00:26, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#{{User:Rogue Leader/sig}} 00:29, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]] 00:38, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#{{User:FireBird/sig}} 04:15, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:I'm having a hard time understanding this position. All the arguments against guestbooks, it seems to me, center around what happens when people ''edit'' them (clogs recent changes, etc.). Aside from the possibility that having them around might incite new ones (which the "closed" tag idea [[HRWiki talk:Standards#Other|below]] ought to curtail), what exactly are they hurting? Even if deletion is necessary, is there a reason to go in and delete them by force with a "the notice has been up" defense rather than starting by asking the user to do so? It seems so... [[Wikipedia:Vogon|Vogon]]. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 08:19, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#::Keep in mind that almost nothing is actually ever deleted from the wiki. If people want to visit their old guestbook, it will still be in the history. You ask what they're hurting, and several people have said that they clog the recent changes. While I agree with this, it isn't the basis of my opposition to them because I think it is a weak argument and is only a side-effect of the underlying problem: namely, at some point in the not-too-distant past, guestbooks reached a critical mass and exploded. When that happened, they lost all meaning and became a game. In other words, if guestbooks were currently being used as they were intended to be used, then I would fight tooth and nail to keep them and ''to heck'' with the annoyance of the patrollers. ''But they're not,'' and I have no reasonable expectation that simply ''moving'' them would change the current behavior even one iota. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 16:28, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:::Oops—I wasn't very clear there. I meant what would "dormant" guestbooks hurt—i.e. something like closed STUFFs, with a little notice saying "This is from before we instituted our '''guestbook standard'''; please do not edit." (Elaboration [[#Other|below]] on how this could work.) Yeah, I think we're all pretty clear on what guestbooks currently hurt. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 20:52, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#[[User:Homsad|Homsad]] Delete them!
#{{User:Some HSR themed username/sig}} 17:04, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#{{User:Gafaddict/sig}} 19:49, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#{{User:Dantheburgerking/sig}} 01:28, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
#{{User:Homestar Coder/sig}} 09:30, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
#{{User:Total Spaceship Guy3/sig}} 10:35, 23 January 2006 (UTC) Burn them all!
#For the very clear reasons [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] stated above. {{User:The Paper/sig}} 15:21, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
#{{User:The Chort/sig}} 16:43, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
#{{User:Bill Martinson/sig}} 18:37, 23 January 2006 (UTC) — for the many reasons It's dot com has tirelessly explained (and, sadly, had to reiterate); the other proposals just aren't workable due to overhead, judgement calls, etc. The purpose of this website is not to provide a meeting place for people who are more interested in making new chat-buddies than in contributing to the encyclopedia. Let's get over our own egos and do what's best for the wiki.
#[[User:Mycroft.holmes|Mycroft Holmes]] 20:14, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
#{{User:Pertmywert/sig}} 20:57, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

====Move existing ones to subpages and lock them====
#{{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 00:28, 22 January 2006 (UTC) I think that if someone really ''really'' values their guestbook, they should have the option of moving it to a subpage and keeping it there for the sake of documenting history.
#:Couldn't they copy it to their own computer? Also, they can still see it in their page history. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 00:49, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#::I'm just saying they should have the option. By the way, I'm saving my guestbook to my computer.
#:::I think we should fight subpage [[Wikipedia:Creep (project management)|creep]] as much as possible. If we disallow guestbooks, then those subpages would no longer serve the project. But if someone just wants to see one, all they would need to do is look at an old version of their page. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 01:33, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#::::There are other reasons for wanting to keep one than sentimental value. Guestbooks—like user pages in general—are excusable exercises in vanity. The whole point of one is so people can see how many people like you, or at least have acknowledged you. Though this may not be a particularly noble motivation, it's hardly unreasonable. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 01:42, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:::::But again, it's not like the comments would disappear from the histories. Why add to the already growing problem of subpages? Talk page discussions are just as good as (nay, better than) guestbook entries, because actual thought goes into leaving messages. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 01:53, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#[[User:Bluebry muffin|Bluebry]] 03:20, 22 January 2006 (UTC) As said above - Most people I met were from guestbooks.
#:<nowiki>*</nowiki>sigh* Once more, you would have a chance to copy the info to your computer, or look at it in your page history. (Broken record = me) — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 03:29, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#::I know, but I want to meet more people, not ones from January. [[User:Bluebry muffin|Bluebry]] 18:42, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:::Have you tried looking around the wiki yourself? Like the recent changes page or talk pages? {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 18:56, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#For someone who knows what it's like to have something that took a long time taken from him, I'm voting about sub-paging and locking. At least give them that. {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 07:00, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#Guestbooks were and always will be a major part of HRwiki history (not to mention all these arguements). I at least think that we should leave them on the Wiki. Taking them off would be like TBC disbanding Teen Girl Squad: sure, it used to be minor, but it became a big piece of the big enchilada. {{User:Teh_Frossty_One/sig}} 17:58, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:<nowiki>*</nowiki>sigh again* Is anybody reading the previous discussion? They won't disappear from the histories. Hardly anything ever does around here. As for being a major part of our history, I would tend to disagree with you there. They're a fad. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 18:17, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#::I ''was'' reading the above arguements, thank you. But my point is that fads can make history books too. What about mullets? They were pretty big way back when. Now, I agree with the fact that they're not the biggest part of history, but maybe just have a little about them on the history page or something. Or keep some examples, like the ones that revolutionized guestbooks. Not trying to sound like a speech here, but, well, you know. {{User:Teh_Frossty_One/sig}} 18:27, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:::Well, what goes on the [[HRWiki:A History|history]] page is outside the scope of this thread (although whatever the outcome of this discussion is should definitely be noted there). Any links on that page can just as easily point to old versions of a page as anything else. By the way, by "revolutionized", do you mean "made a perfectly fine practice into a problem that then had to be dealt with"? — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 18:34, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#::::Your point has seeped into my brain. But what if people took a screenshot of their guestbook in its final state, hosted it on a site, and provided a link to it on their userspace? Personally, I think that's a good idea for (a)anyone who wants to preserve their guestbook and (b)anyone who still wants the world to see it. That way, it's not really cluttering the wiki. {{User:Teh_Frossty_One/sig}} 18:40, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:::::I suppose you could do that. Couldn't you also just put in a link to an old version of the page, [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=User:It%27s_dot_com&oldid=221198 kinda like this]? — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 18:55, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#::::::I guess it would be the choice of the user, then. Pages like this would load faster than an image (especially if you had dial-up like me). {{User:Teh_Frossty_One/sig}} 18:57, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#:::::::Heck, as long as you're hosting things externally and linking to them, you can keep your guestbook rolling (as I've mentioned somewhere else on this sprawling page). —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 19:51, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
#::::::::i agree with abdiviklas. {{User:Seriously/sig}} 14:12, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

====Other====
* '''Restrict them to talk pages; one per user; and require input beyond signatures.''' They could even be thematic; [[User:Has Matt?|Has Matt]]'s list of "Things I Wish Homsar Would Say" would be a good example (except in this scenario it would be on his talk page). The goal would be meaningful statements that would keep all the good aspects of guestbooks (recognition, friendship-building) without the qualities that started this discussion. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 07:39, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 07:39, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#:But who will decide what's meaningful and what's not? Some will argue that "YA!!! IM #143! =^^=" is quite meaningful. And if some kind of standard is reached, who will remove the bad stuff from the user's page? The user? Sysop? Having something you wrote removed can triger alot of flame wars. {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 07:45, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#::Yeah, good questions. First: once we're talking about talk pages, I for one would be cool with pretty much anything. As I've hinted earlier, some might not find discussions of the [[User talk:AbdiViklas#...And the Absoluteness of Absolute Pitch|absoluteness of absolute pitch]] the most ''meaningful'' talk page content. But I think the policy could be stated fairly clearly: don't just leave your name; try to say something substantive that will make the user happy or tell him or her something about you. The fact that your #143 only makes ''you'' happy, and isn't a particularly intrinsic personal quality. Secondly: Whoa now, yeah. ''If'' this conversation results in a change in policy, then I feel like it should be implemented by leaving the owner a note asking to do it him or herself. He or she can then either delete or move and convert it (though the vast majority would need to just start from scratch—which isn't so bad, really). Rather than moving to subpages and locking, my proposal would be to '''add a tag to existing guestbooks telling other users not to add to them, and then enforce it with warnings'''. It's not like we're dealing with vandalism on the Main Page here; once somebody accidentally signs a "closed" guestbook and is warned, they're not going to continue. If they do, they need to be banned anyway. But closed STUFFs, for instance, survive just fine without locking. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 07:58, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#:::That's a decent idea, but it definitely achieves rigamarole status. I vote for keeping it the way it is, but like I say, good one anyway. {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}
*#::::Oh-ho-ho-ho! (devilish laugh) Sorry about that, I just felt like this place needed a random Strong Bad quote. Okay, back on task. Why don't we just put something in the standards page that says something like, "Although guestbooks in the Wiki are discouraged, you are allowed to have ''one'' guestbook on a subpage or on your talk page." Just another idea I'm throwing out here. You'll probably find some problems with this idea one way or another, I just felt it needed to be mentioned. {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 14:39, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#:::::I would not have a problem with comments restricted to talk pages, but why would an organized guestbook be necessary there? First of all, there's nothing that prevents someone from starting a thread: "Hey, I read ''X'' on your page and you rock!" I have done that myself several times. Second, as we have clearly seen, there seems to be something wrong with a structured list with the label "Guestbook" that causes certain people to go into a frenzy, which completely negates the whole reason to have people sign it (i.e. to indicate that the user page was read and appreciated). — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 16:11, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#::::::How about this. If the guest book bannination is accepted. how about we give people with guest books 2-3 days to move to a sub page and have a sysop lock it. If they fail to do this, I think we should just delete the guest books that are left. And Has Matt?, I kinda think that that defeats the purpose of this vote. {{User:Rogue Leader/sig}} 16:17, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#:::::::Yeah, we're way past the point of simply ''discouraging'' them. Also, if we permitted them on subpages at all, then we'd might as well just move them to a subpage for them. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 16:25, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#::::::::My vote's with AbdiViklas's suggestion. {{User:ACupOfCoffee/sig}} 19:42, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
*#I go for this option i'm voting for, but here's an idea: why not have a global hrwiki guestbook, for those of us that like to sign guestbooks? We lock all guestbooks except for this page where someone can sign their name in for the entire wiki? Strange I know but it just occurred to me. Another q: if guestbooks are totally deleted, yes they remain in the page's history... but what about guestbook subpages? (like the one that USED to be User:Kilroy/Guestbook)? Their histories are lost. Just like that last page I mentioned. --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 20:25, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
*#:Even though it might look deleted, it's not. The only things that are really deleted when it says deleted are images. If someone needed the code from one of those subpages (for example, to archive locally), it could be undeleted long enough to take care of it. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 20:38, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
*#::Ohhhh! Tight paaants! That is good to know! :) --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 23:32, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

* '''Start a one-day race for everyone with a guestbook to amass the most names. At the end of the day, everyone's guestbooks are deleted, and the winner gets a nickel (via PayPal).'''
*#{{User:Trey56/sig}} 03:46, 23 January 2006 (UTC) Everybody wins: guestbook proponents get one last day of unbridled mayhem, and guestbook opponents get eternal relief from their patrolling woes.
*#:Better yet, winner gets $100. Supplied by Trey56 of course. :-P {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 04:10, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
*#::i think that's a great idea. i don't even have a guestbook, but i would like to sign some. [[User:Thatkidyoualllove|Thatkidyoualllove]] 13:21, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

<center><hr width=70%></center>

===If the consensus is to end the practice and delete them altogether, when should that happen?===
*'''About ten days after the consensus is reached here, they should be deleted. A notice should be put up on the Recent Changes page and at the top of watchlists.''' — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 00:26, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#— [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 00:26, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#:And the notices have been put up. {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 02:25, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#::(Notices of the current discussion, that is, not of deletion.) —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 02:29, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#:::Right. Up there I meant that similar notices would be put up saying something like "Now would be a good time to archive that locally before it's gone" or something. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 02:29, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#::::Do you think you could put a notice on the Main Page as well, like we did for donations and NSMC? {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 02:56, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#:::::The thinking is probably that this is an issue that doesn't really concern IPs; if someone's a user they'll probably see it either on recent changes or when they log in (it's on the "successful login" page). —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 03:04, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#::::::Yeah, this isn't something we need to bother people with who are just here to read. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 03:26, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*# [[User:Homsad|Homsad]] 17:00, 22 January 2006
*#Yeah, what counts as a guestbook? I mean, I have things like Favorite Sbemail, and the occasional poll. [[User:Bluebry muffin|Bluebry]] 18:47, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#:Bluebry, polls are different than guestbooks. Many people have guestbooks, while not as many people have polls. Polls won't last forever, and aren't as annoying as guestbooks. Most people leave their guestbooks up forever. Polls are temporary. Now, people with ''two'' guesbooks, on the other hand, are more of our focus. *wink wink* {{User:Teh_Frossty_One/sig}} 18:51, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#::Yeah, Bluebry; see my comment near the end of the long [[#Oppose|Oppose]] section advocating the practice of Healthy Non-Guestbook Interaction Practices. Making good Peer-to-Talk page choices. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 20:56, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#::Yeah, um, sorry for having TWO guestbooks. Ummm, yeah. [[User:Bluebry muffin|Bluebry]] 18:54, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
*#:::well, i think that it should be done in two weeks. that leaves users with plentiful time to get as much sigantures as possible.
*#::::One week is plenty. {{User:Rogue Leader/sig}} 21:15, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

== Original discussion ==
''This disscussion was originally found in [[HRWiki:Da Basement]]''

Guestbooks started out as kinda cute. Then they became a fad. Now it seems that everybody's user pages are being edited by other people. I remember a time when such a thing was vandalism nine times out of ten. Having guestbooks is really becoming a nuisance for recent changes. I think we should do away with them. I don't even think moving them to a subpage is a good idea, because it seems most people just go around blindly signing them, without actually reading the page in question. I would prefer, if someone had read my user page, that they just made some kind of meaningful comment on my talk page. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 04:24, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
:I am going to have to say that I agree. At the very least, all current guestbooks need to be moved to a subpage. Guestbooks now are just for signing them, not to show that someone reads a guestbook owners userpage. {{User:Rogue Leader/sig}} 04:27, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

::I concur with Ben on all counts. -- [[User:Tom|Tom]] 04:30, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

:::Yessir. It's Dot Com hit the nail on the head. {{User:FireBird/sig}} 04:33, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

::::Yeah, you guys are probably right. I have to admit, I'm also guilty of owning a [[User:Thunderbird L17/Guestbook|guestbook]], but if that's what it takes to do away with this pointless fad, I'll give a vote towards getting rid of all guestbooks, including my own. {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 04:50, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

:::::I like signing guestbooks. I don't have one but I like signing them. About 75% of the time I do end up reading the page in question too! I hope I'm not the exception. Perhaps they can be restricted to the user's talk page? --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 05:02, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

:::::'''EDIT CONFLICT:'''Agreed with everybody. Signing a guestbook doesn't say that you like that page, or that you enjoyed what they wrote. I agree with Dot com, leave a message with some thought if you want to say that you liked a user page, not put your sig on their userpage. I don't think guestbooks are ''bad'', they're just pointless.--{{User:bkmlb/sig}} 05:03, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

::::::When we come to a point when (and I don't want to name names) there are two or three different guestbooks on the same userpage for no reason at all, or that there's a "guestbook race" where users race to see who could sign it first, or even when a user picks up a deadline for getting X signatures before a certian date, it's time to get rid of that fad. I hate seeing users who have more then 500 userpage and usertalk edits, but less then 20 mainspace edits. {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 07:37, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

:::::::Stux: That wouldn't make a difference. It's not about where it is, it's the fact that it clutters Recent Changes up and makes patrolling edits a nightmare. {{User:FireBird/sig}} 07:41, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
::::::::I agree, although guilty of signing a few. It's become not only a fad, but a competition. Who can sign the most guestbooks, who can sign the fastest, whose is longer, who can reach the most by such and such date--even who [[User:Bluebry muffin|has the most]]. I personally wouldn't mind seeing them go. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
:::::::::That page made me agree with getting rid of them. In fact, I'm gonna go get rid of mine right now. {{User:ACupOfCoffee/sig}} 03:50, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
::::::::::''{sigh}'' It's sad it got to this point. It's really kind of like [[The Geddup Noise]], isn't it? We've gone from "Guestbooks used to be cool!" to "Corporate Guestbooks still suck". I hate the thought of them being banned, but it probably has gotten to that point. I'll support it. {{User:Heimstern Läufer/sig}} 04:01, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
:::::::::::Guestbooks are dying with their original creator, [[User:Bubsty|Bubsty]]. I'm taking mine out too. {{User:Dantheburgerking/sig}} 04:13, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
:::::::::::I'm not sure exactly who started the fad, but my money's on [[User:Smileyface11945|Smileyface11945]]. Both [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=User:Smileyface11945&oldid=116185 his] and [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=User:Thunderbird_L17/Guestbook&oldid=171056 my] guestbooks predate that of [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=User:Bubsty&oldid=198810 Bubsty]'s. Still, I think Bubsty ammased the most sigs, and I belive it was his' that influenced the inordanant influx of guestbooks. {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 05:24, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
:His is gone. [[User:24.18.208.18|24.18.208.18]] 23:44, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
::Also, Bubsty never started guestbooks. He said he got it from RJMT somewhere. [[User:24.18.208.18|24.18.208.18]] 23:48, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
:::Thanks, I [[HRWiki:Da Basement#noted|just meantioned]] that. His' is [[User:Bubsty/guestbook|still around]], just not really linked to much. And [[User:RJMT|RJMT]]'s guestbook only goes back to [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=User:RJMT&oldid=194351 Novermber 9th], which still post-dates both mine and Smiley's. {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 00:38, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
::::I think [http://old.hrwiki.org/index.php?page=IPADDRESSMAN this] is an interesting point... --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
:::::Heh. That ''is'' interesting. But guestbooks clearly died out at some point (perhaps when we switched to MediaWiki), and have only recently resurged. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 01:02, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
::::::Yeah. I'm not sure if anybody remembered his or not to start the MediaWiki generation of Guestbooks, but that's beside the point. We're getting a bit off topic now (mostly my fault). The question isn't who started them, it's should we keep them, and/or what should we do about them? {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 01:05, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
:I agree with Dot com. (I know, I left, but I was finishing this killerdynamo and admin-hating thing up...) About 2-3 weeks ago they weren't ''that'' big of a deal, but now it's gotten kinda... insane. Especially if everyone starts getting [[User:Bluebry muffin|more then one]]. They started out being cute, but ''now'' they're just plain annoying. (I feel kinda bad though, seeing as a lot of users see mine and think "Oh cool! I want one!"). I'm taking mine off. {{User:Bubsty/sig}} 05:47, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
:::::I think we should keep our own guestbook if we want to. {{User:Tampo/sig}} 14:41, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

::::::May I remind you Tampo, that the discussion, as mentioned below is going on in [[#Guestbooks|above]]. --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 16:42, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
:::::::I just put my comment here because my computer couldn't load that page. {{User:Tampo/sig}} 16:46, 23 January 2006 (UTC)



''This is an archive of the original discussion. Please put new comments [[#Guestbooks|above]].''

User:Marth 99

Yeltensic — Tue, 24 Jan 2006 19:17:35 GMT

Yeltensic: /* Guest Book? */ SAVE THE GUESTBOOKS

Greetings. One and everyone. Welcome to Me! Marth 99!

NEW SECTION TO COME!!!!!

==My Name==
Okay, about my name. I know its not Homestar related, but when I created my own site, I wanted to use this name. However, since I know absolute CRAP about website management, I decided this would have to do.

==Background Info==

Okay here goes. NO ONE I KNOW KNOWS ABOUT THIS PAGE. That's right, nobody. CERTAIN PEOPLE think that Homestar is for kids only and CERTAIN PEOPLE are wrong. CERTAIN OTHER PEOPLE think that this site is a waste of time and they are wrong as well. I can do what I want with my life.

<strike>Another thing. I will NEVER tell anyone what my real name is. There is a reason why I never put my email address when I registered. I don't want CERTAIN PEOPLE to find this site and ban me from my computer for all of eternity.</strike>

Whatever. If all goes as planned, CERTAIN PEOPLE will never find this page anyway. So I can tell you who I am. My name is Mike Harvey and I live in a small town in Massachusetts. I am, yes, a junior in high school and I still will not let you down.

==First Time Here==
I was introduced to Homestar by my friend Keith; roughly around 3/6/03 (because [[unused emails]] was the new email). My first toon? [[The Interview]].

It took me 2.5 more years to find this site. I was on Wikipedia for a school assignment, and I thought "lets search for Homestar." Imagine my surprise when I found out there was a whole 'nother website devoted to it!

==Things I'll Probably Do==
I'm not here for major stuff, like creating pages and the like. I'll just wander around the site, watching for what needs to be added. My specialty is the [[Nicknames]] page. I'll also check out the Recent Changes page if there are any talks I can jump into. [[STUFF]] will also be no match for my democratic power of voting. Until then, maybe [[Strong Bad]] will answer one of my emails someday...someday...when all my dreams come TRUUUUUUUUUE!!!!

==History Lesson==
U guys wanna know how long ago 3/6/03 was? Well...
*[[Trogdor]] didn't have a game yet
*[[the show]] came out as a new email
*[[Main Page 17]] was the newest main
*There was no [[Puppet Stuff]]
*[[Teen Girl Squad]] had only 2 episodes
*and [[A Jumping Jack Contest]] was still on the site!
*pretty weird huh?

==Favorites==
*Toon: [[Cool Things]]
*Short: [[The Interview]]
*Halloween: [[Pumpkin Carve-nival]]
*Decemberween: [[Homestar Presents: Presents]]
*Other Holiday: [[Fall Float Parade]]
*Tandy Email: [[spring cleaning]]
*Compy Email: [[different town]], [[stupid stuff]], and [[theme park]]
*Lappy Email: [[long pants]], [[rock opera]], [[record book]], and [[geddup noise]]
*Game: [[TROGDOR!]]
*Character: depends on mood
*Website: homestarrunner.com

==A non-Homestar related list of interests==
WARNING: these links have almost nothing to do with the topic. See for yourself.
:[[Strong Badman|Teen Titans]]
:[[ghosts|Danny Phantom]]
:[[video games|The Jak series]]
:[[Stinkoman 20X6|Kingdom Hearts]]
:[[Weekly Fanstuff|Fan Fiction]]
:[[Teen Girl Squad|Sprite Comics]]
:[[Coach Z|Basketball]]
:[[Videro Games|Super Smash Bros. Melee]]
:[[Death|Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy]]
:[[Website Sightings|Neglected Mario Characters]]
:[[Caleb Rentpayer|Family Guy]]
:[[different town|The Simpsons]]
:[[property of ones|Math]]
:[[The King of Town|Chicken cutlets]]
:[[stupid stuff|Jimmy Neutron]] (including the two [[death metal|Power Hours]])
:And other various [[Crap|crap]].

==Cool People==
Uh, maybe because I like cool people? Here it go.

#[[User:Has Matt?|Has Matt?]]- My welcomer. He is, in my professional opinion, one of the greatest gnomes I have ever seen.
#[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]- One of the smartest guys on the wiki, he taught me how to revert pages. Pure Genius, this guy.
#[[User:Heimstern Läufer|Heimstern Läufer]]- Master of German, one of the most trustworthy guys I know and proud protector against trolling.
#[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]]- Always looking to help new users, he works on the inside, stopping problems before they asplode.
#[[User:KieferSkunk|KieferSkunk]]- Okay, I don't know who this guy is, but he's still cool.
#[[User:Sir Strong Bad|Sir Strong Bad]]- From 1939, this guy is one of the coolest there is.
#[[User:Trendy Totebag|Trendy Totebag]]- New to the wiki, this guy definitely has potential for wikiness and coolosity.
#[[User:Bubsty|Bubsty]]- Always in the heart of the wiki, he will be remembered and missed by all. (until he comes back, at least.)
#[[User:LePorello|LePorello]]- He knows Latin! Only cool people know Latin! He also scores high on my unaired respect list, too!
#[[User:JoeyDay|JoeyDay]]- Hello? This guy kinda MADE the wiki? How is he ''not'' cool?

==Guest Book?==
Here's the guestbook. If you can find me, sign below.
#{{User:Marth 99/sig}}: U RULE MAN! Oh, wait. That's me. Sorry.
#{{User:Kilroy/sig}} 21:44, 31 December 2005 (UTC) Yay!! First one!
#{{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 22:01, 31 December 2005 (UTC) [Insert witty phrase here]
#{{User:Homsarroks/sig}} 22:20, 31 December 2005 (UTC)—Haldo!!!
#{{User:Heimstern Läufer/sig}} 23:12, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
#{{User:Teh_Frossty_One/sig}} 19:03, 1 January 2006 (UTC) POOF!
#— {{User:Lapper/sig}} 23:17, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
#[[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 23:23, 1 January 2006 (UTC) you have signed mine, so i shall sign yours. good tidings to you.
#{{User:The thing/sig}} 15:38, 2 January 2006 (UTC) ummm...
#{{User:The Chort/sig}} 15:47, 2 January 2006 (UTC) My autograph? Sure!
#--{{User:The 386/sig}} 17:34, 2 January 2006 (UTC) I don't care how much I have or what I'm doing. I am signing this.
#{{User:Bubsty/sig}} 23:50, 2 January 2006 (UTC). Ah!!!!! I didn't sign it before now!!!!!!!! *Climbs into a small hole forever*
#{{User:Dantheburgerking/sig}} 00:09, 3 January 2006 (UTC) Bubsty, your slacking off!
#{{User:Salty/sig}} 04:03, 3 January 2006 (UTC) Yay!! (I wish I was) First!!
#{{User:Homestar Coder/sig}} 04:14, 3 January 2006 (UTC) If you pick the white color scheme for Marth, he becomes Elvis Marth.
#{{User:bkmlb/sig}} 04:15, 3 January 2006 (UTC) So..yeah
#{{User:LePorello/sig}} 13:31, 3 January 2006 (UTC)u r 2 kewl, d00d.
#--{{User:Nckinfn04/sig}} 20:28, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
#--[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]] 20:31, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
#--[[User:Sanjuro|Sanjuro]] 20:33, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
#{{User:Tampo/sig}} 14:28, 4 January (UTC)
#{{User:Sir Strong Bad/sig}} 22:08, 8 January 2006 (UTC) '''Greetings, Sir Marth! I wish to converse with you more in the near future!'''
#--[[User:Trendy Totebag|Trendy Totebag]] 01:49, 10 January 2006 (UTC)Hey Marth 99, thanks for putting me on to your cool people list! I feel priveledged.
#{{User:Trey56/sig}}
#{{User:KieferSkunk/sig}} 01:00, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
#[[User:Bluebry muffin|Bluebry muffin]] 14:38, 15 January 2006 (UTC) Who's always givin' Strong Bad a hand? Bluebry..Bluebry.
#{{User:Gnome of Fury/sig}} 16:15, 19 January 2006 (UTC) You sign my guestbook, I return the favor.
#[[User:Nintendostar_Runner|Nintendostar_Runner]] You're pretty cool. Is your username a reference to the Fire Emblem character, Marth? Answer on my guestbook.
# Good question! Marth rocks my socks! {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}
#[[User:Yeltensic|Yeltensic]] [[User talk:Yeltensic|Save the guestbooks]] 19:17, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

==Accomplishments==
*12/28/05?: Became a user.
*1/12/06: Beat Level 50 of TROGDOR!
*1/14/06: Created the article [[Strong Bad Screaming]].
*1/16/06: Winning [[User:LePorello|LePorello's]] Latin Translation (Thanks. You win!)
*1/22/06: Still marked for deletion.
*1/22/06: Created my sig! {{User:Marth 99/sig}}

Everybody wants it, everybody needs it, it's time for

==QUOTES!!!==

*"Sitting on a couch is boring when there isn't a TV or a hangglider in front of it" Homestar, [[Cool Things]]
*"I'm pretending I'm the captain of the fortball torm!" Baby Coach Z, [[highschool]]
*"Okay, King, Count Longardeaux needs an eating record. So...just eat lunch like you normally do and you'll probably set several without even trying" Strong Bad, [[record book]]
*"I got an email/snailmail/polishemail in my pocket, and I think it's going to melt" Strong Bad, [[other days]]
*'''STRONG BAD''': This is a subpoena! I summons Exhibit 4-B to my chambers!
:'''HOMESTAR''': Sustained! (from [[rampage]])
*"I'm practicing. Closing my eyes. I'm not very good. At it. Though" Homestar, [[boring (really)]]
*"Well that's just simply not true. I wear long pants always long pants I'm a long pants man long pants long pants" Homestar, [[long pants]]
*"Foolish Homestar. It's not about getting people presents, it's about getting people '''good presents!'''" Strong Bad, [[Homestar Presents: Presents]]
*"DENTIST! (jugga jigga wugga) DELI-STYLE! (jugga jigga wugga)" Brainkreig, [[death metal]]

==In Memoriam: Strong Bad Screaming==
[[Image:OtherHell.png|thumb|right|"AHHHHHHHH!!!"]]
There are several instances of '''[[Strong Bad]] screaming'''. Generally these come whenever he becomes freaked out, but there are other exceptions.

'''Appearances'''

*[[Where The Crap Are We?]] - When he and [[Homestar Runner]] become trapped in "Blue Fadey Land", he freaks out after finding out that they aren't in heaven and there's no way out.
*Email [[sibbie]] - He screams and destroys Homestar's boombox after hearing two songs he never intended on creating on it.
*Email [[virus]] - Strong Bad actually screams twice. Once when the Homestar popups appear, and once again after he learns that [[Bubs]] shot his [[Compy 386|computer]].
*[[Strong Bad vs. Little Girl]] - At [[Little Girl]]'s request, Strong Bad does his trademark scream.
*Email [[secret recipes]] - Strong Bad and [[The Cheat]] scream and run away before [[Coach Z]] "pukes his pants".
*Email [[long pants]] - Strong Bad freaks out and screams when [[Homestar's Daisy Dukes]] land on his foot. The Cheat then destroys them with the [[BMW Lighter]].
*Email [[highschool]] - Strongbadiophage, Strong Bad's unicellular ancestor, screams after the Homestarmecium splits into eight.

This article was a stub. Do not bother trying to expand it.

==One Final Note==

<blockquote class="lappy email"><div>Subject:Why?!?!?!?!</div>

Dear Strong Bad 
Why won't you answer any of my emails? 
Your buddy, 
Marth 99

User:Benol

Yeltensic — Tue, 24 Jan 2006 19:13:48 GMT

Yeltensic: /* GUESTBOOK! */ SAVE THE GUESTBOOKS

<div class="usermessage">Everyone has one of these [[User_talk:Benol|message]] things.</div>
 
 

<center><big><big><big><big><big><big><big>Goodbye, Bubsty.

Your legacy will live on forever</big></big></big></big></big></big></big></center>

{{Message_box|
id =donttrythisathome|
backgroundcolor =tomato|
image =Stop_hand.png|
heading =The information contained in this article is dangerous.|
message = Do not try this at home.}}
 
{{User:Benol/randomfacts}}

♪ Timmy was a chemist, Timmy is no more. What Timmy thought was [[Wikipedia:Water|H2O]] was [[Wikipedia:Sulfuric acid|H2SO4]]! ♪ 

<blockquote style="background:#0C0; color:#FFF; padding:1em; width:500px; border:none; font-weight:bold; text-align:center; font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">THE FOLLOWING USER PAGE HAS BEEN APPROVED FOR 
MOST AUDIENCES SOMETIMES 
BY SOME PEOPLE WHO KNOW WHAT'S BEST 
 
IT BE RATED
{| cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" style="background:none; border:1px #FFF solid; margin:0 auto; color:white"
|-
| style="border:1px #FFF solid;" | PG
| style="border:1px #FFF solid;" | FOR COOLNESS AND ''VERY'' COOL STUFF
|}
</blockquote>

[[Image:Wikistress3D 5 v3.jpg|thumb|right|150px|Could it go any higher?]]

[[Image:Benolpic.jpg|thumb|left|I Just wanted a Christmas Ham]]
 

[http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6a/Water_on_mars.jpg OMG!!!! PROOF THERE IS WATER ON MARS!!!!]

== me ==
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y1/benol151/benoleinstien.jpg

<blockquote class="lappy email"><div>Subject: Benol</div>Hey there, ho there! I'm Benol! The Coach B, I'd guess you'd call me. Or plain old Coach is fine, seein' as I'm the only one around, so, probably no one else would answer to that. You say "Hey Coach!", and I'd say "Yeah?" or..."That's me!" or..."Hoo-hah!"

Coach Z is the best jengajam on the whole website. I won't lie to you. Strong Bad is no way as cool as him. I mean, even the cheat doesn't even compare to his awsomeness.

E mail me at [mailto:olsonbe@bellsouth.net olsonbe@bellsouth.net]. I don't have AIM, or MSN, and I will never get them. no, not even for you, Nebulon. However, I have YIM. My name is Benol_The_Master. I have a blog. it's called [http://shinyboxy.blogspot.com/ Shiny Box] I also have a homestar blog. it's called [http://casaestrellacorredor.blogspot.com/ Casaestrella Corredor]

I also live in Georgia. Really '''REALLY''' close to Atlanta, (where [[The Brothers Chaps]] live). Just about half an hour away.</blockquote>

== My Username ==
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y1/benol151/benoldictionary.jpg
[[Image:Benoloil.jpg|thumb|I swear this guy isn't me!]]
My user name began when I got a cool computer thing called a [[Wikipedia:Cybiko|Cybiko]]. It told me to create a username, and I tried to put my whole name in. It woulsn't fit, and got shortened to benols. I decided to take the "s" off, and benol was born.

Pronounciation: Ben-ole (rhymes with hole) '''NOT''' Ben-all (rhymes with ball)

(Note:benol is not to be confused with BeNOL, a high preformance racing oil.)

=== Other Website Usernames ===
*[[Wikipedia:Main Page|Wikipedi]][[Commandos in the Classroom|a]]: [[Wikipedia:User:Benol|Benol]]
*[http://uncyclopedia.org/ Uncyclopedia]: [http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/User:Benol Benol]
*[http://www.neopets.com Neopets]: [http://www.neopets.com/randomfriend.phtml?user=benol151 benol151]
*[http://www.blogger.com Blogger]: [http://www.blogger.com/profile/15029899 benol]
*[http://www.photobucket.com Photobucket]: [http://photobucket.com/albums/y1/benol151/ benol151]
*[http://www.nick.com Nickelodeon]: [http://www.nick.com/mynick/nickPage/index.jhtml?username=benol benol]
*[http://www.deviantart.com Deviant Art]: [http://benol.deviantart.com/ benol]
*[http://www.blogger.com Blogger]: [http://www.blogger.com/profile/15029899 benol]

== The Homestar Runner Experience ==
My first experience with homestar was when I was in the 5th grade. somebody told me about a thing called "[[Homestar Talker]]" where you could make someone talk. He told me that he said "marshmallow" wierd. When I got home, I completely forgot what it was called. then, in 7th grade, I saw my friend Robert wearing a [[Strong Bad]] hoodie. I saw on the back the Homestar Runner website URL and went to it when I got home. I had been hooked on Homestar ever since.

=== Homestar Favorites ===
*Favorite character: [[Coach Z]]
*Favorite Toon: [[Cool Things]]
*Favorite Sbemail: [[dangeresque 3]]
*Favorite Song: a tie between [[These peoples try to fade me]] and [[The theme from DANGERESQUE II: This time, it's not Dangeresque I]]

== favorite quotes ==
<blockquote class="compy email">'''HOMESTAR RUNNER:''' And now, I ran out of the house, naked somehow.
 '''THE CHEAT:''' Meh!
 '''COACH Z:''' I'm the blade man, man!
 '''MARZIPAN:''' Coach Z, that's gross!
 '''HOMESTAR RUNNER:''' Somebody's a gwabbin' my butt!</blockquote>

== My sig ==
this be my sig. --{{User:Benol/sig}}

== ASCII ==

<pre>
+++II+++++++++++?III+++++++I+++++++I+++++I+++++II?+~~~~~~..~~~++++++++++++III+++
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IIIIIIIIIIIIII++~~..ZZZZZZZZI+. ODOZZZZZZZZZOOOOOODD+ + ++ .~~~+
+++++++IIIIIII+~~~...ZZZZZO++ ?DDZZZZZZZZOOOOOOOD~ ++. ~+~...~~~+
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++III+++++I++++++~~.. ++~ M MM D MM DDOOOOOOOOOOD~..~~+++++++I+
+++++++++II++++~~~...++~ M MM M MM .DDOOOOOOOODD..~~+?+++++I+
+++++++++III++~~~...+++ MMMM MMMM .~DOOOOOOODD...~+++++++I+
++++++++++++++~~.. +++ MMMI DMMO ...ODOOOOODD?..~~++++++I+
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+++++++++~~...DZZZZZZZOOOOOD$DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODD..~~~+II+++++++
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+++I++++~~~..?OZZZZZZOOOOD DDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODD...~~+II+++++I+
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+++++++~+~~.~DZZZZZZZOODI DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODD...~++II+++++I+
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</pre>

== Contribs! ==
<blockquote class="tandy email">I made [[Minor Companies]]!
I also came up with the idea for [[Radio Stations and Shows]]</blockquote>

==Really Fake Pictures==
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y1/benol151/office-building.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y1/benol151/BAR-B-Q.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y1/benol151/pack-square.jpg
 http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y1/benol151/error-message.png

== Haikus are overrated! It's Limerick Time!!! ==
[[Image:Stinkogame3-End.png]]

Feel free to post your own

There once was a guy named Homestar He wanted to drive a car He put in the key It started to splee And he didn't get very far!--{{User:Benol/sig}}

== GUESTBOOK! ==
<blockquote class="lappy email"><div>Subject:Signing</div>please sign! it would be appreciatated

''use the # format''
#{{User:Bubsty/sig}} Jeez, everyones gettin a guestbook now!!
#— {{User:Stinkoman K/Sig}} 18:32, 19 November 2005 (UTC) MY FIRST SPOT!
#[[User:Heimstern Läufer|Heimstern Läufer]] 18:36, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
#— {{User:Lapper/sig}} 20:22, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
#[[User:Jibney|Coach Z]]-this is a prorty gord usor porge! great jorb! oh...i morn...great jarb! or...i morn...great JEEEEAREAORFORB! worl gord lork!
#{{User:The Chort/sig}} 18:35, 21 November 2005 (UTC) My autograph? Sure!
#[[Image:homsar_small.PNG]]Homsarroks[[Image:kookysig.gif]]-Check out my new sig!
#{{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 04:39, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
#[[User:SparkPlug|SparkPlug]] 02:45, 24 November 2005 (UTC) Oh, haldo! This is the weordist guest page I have seen.
# {{User:The Paper/sig}} 07:11, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
#{{User:Sir Strong Bad/sig}} 04:43, 28 November 2005 (UTC) I have signed your electronic guestbook, Sir B! Hurray for you!
# {{User:Salty/sig}} 23:49, 1 December 2005 (UTC) Nice ASCII stuff!!
#{{User:Invisible_Robot_Fish/sig}} 14:41, 30 November 2005 (UTC) Good prize! Ding.
#{{User:Homestramy20/sig}} 23:51, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
#--{{User:djm1791/sig2}} 05:15, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
#{{User:Dantheburgerking/sig}} 23:21, 4 December 2005 (UTC) Happy Decemberween!
#{{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 20:28, 11 December 2005 (UTC) Whoa. I didn't know Strong Bad's Lappy was so... big.
#{{User:Kilroy/sig}} 20:54, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
#{{User:gwr2004/sig}} 07:10, 12 December 2005 (UTC) Supersize me!
#{{User:Teh_Frossty_One/sig}} 13:10, 13 December 2005 (UTC) Phear my wrath!
#{{User:The thing/sig}} 8:41, 17 December 2005 (UTC)Yes YOU gave ME a virus!!!
#{{User:Venusy/Sig}} 00:37, 24 December 2005 (UTC) Thanks for the email!
#{{User:Nckinfn04/sig}} 21:45, 29 December 2005 (UTC) Nice ASCII!
#[[User:LePorello|LePorello]] 21:26, 30 December 2005 (UTC)Who will give you the next million <strike>punches in the face</strike> signatures?
#[[User:Seriously|Seriously]] 21:10, 1 January 2006 (UTC) i rock.
#--{{User:The 386/sig}} 22:14, 3 January 2006 (UTC) I don't care how much I have or what I'm doing. I am signing this.
# {{User:Tampo/sig}}
#[[User:Bluebry muffin|Bluebry muffin]] 14:31, 15 January 2006 (UTC) Bread Sing-a-longs ROCK! Nice art, by the way!
# Who be Timmy? You be cool! {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}
# {{User:NOT Billy Bob Bob/sig}} 13:22, 23 January 2006 (UTC) I user your links all the time againsat freinds!
#[[User:Yeltensic|Yeltensic]] [[User talk:Yeltensic|Save the guestbooks]] 19:13, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
</blockquote>

== External Links ==
*[http://www.runabot.com/cgi-bin/webcom/caim?botname=benolbot&ask=Hi My chatbot] Fun to chat to. I swear it isn't a real person!
*[http://www.pandorabots.com/pandora/talk?botid=f5d922d97e345aa1 A.L.I.C.E.] The most inteligent chatbot. I swear this isn't a person.
*[http://www.albinoblacksheep.com Albino Blacksheep] I know everybody has gone here, but here's the link anyways.
*[http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/you.html DON'T CLICK HERE!!!] I MEAN IT!!!!
*[http://www.mindistortion.net/iwantyoursoul/?i_am=Benol DON'T CLICK HERE EITHER!!!] It will steal your soul!!!
*[http://www.mindistortion.net/comicgen/?view=36255 a comic I made]
*[http://tuner1.dc1.sonixtream.com./solon/media/tuner/Tuner?aff=star94&type=IE listen to my favorite radio station, Star 94] Requires Internet Explorer