HRWiki talk:Subtitles

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== From Da Basement ==
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<div class="plainlinks" style="font-family: georgia; border: 1px dashed #06f; background: #eef; padding: 0.5em; margin: 0.5em 0.5em 1em; text-align: center; font-size: 20px; line-height: 30px">[[#Language requests|Request a subtitles language.]]</div>
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''Copied from [[HRWiki:Da_Basement#Subtitles]]:''
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{{Subtitles Talk Archive}}
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<blockquote>
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Some of us have started working on subtitling Homestar Runner Flash cartoons to make them accessible to a wider audience. I would like to know what the HRWiki folks think about this. Should this be a part of the knowledge base wiki? Should it be separate? Would you help? The subtitles are based on the transcripts from the wiki, so there is a strong connection already. The [http://hstarsubs.awardspace.com/ subtitles project] is still beta, but it should work with Firefox and Internet Explorer. Most subtitles have been donated by Phlip from an older project, and I and Elcool have done the international ones. Check it out and let us know.{{User:Loafing/sig}} 22:00, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
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== Language requests ==
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: I personally know one person who'd be interested in that... --{{User:Jay/sig}} 22:19, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
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=== Dutch (NL) ===
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::I strongly support having some way to intergrate the subtitles files into the wiki. As a non-native speaker sometimes I need to go over the wiki transcript just to see what a word or two means. This way , it's already inside the toon window itself. Also, we could open the door for people with hearing problems who still want experiance Homestar Runner like the rest of us. Some flash artists like Weeble from Weeble and Bob and the people behind Too Much Spare Time Animation have already added subtitles to some of their toons. So If TBC aren't going to do it themselvs, we are here for them. {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 22:26, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
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: The .xml file for Exp Film's Commentary doesn't work. --{{User:Jay/sig}} 22:54, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
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::Cheers, fixed the link. Also, listening to the commentary is currently not possible anyway, because of Flash security measures :-/ And I forgot to upload the experiment film subs, will have to wait until I'm back home.{{User:Loafing/sig}} 23:09, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
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:::We need this in the [[User:Phlip/Greasemonkey|Greasemonkey script]], pronto. ¤ {{User:The Mu/sig}} 02:38, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
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:Well, I showed it to the person I previously alluded. The biggest reason I got into H*R in the first place was because it allowed me to share the gift of Homestar with this person, who cannot hear. She says she likes the subtitled stuff better than the Wiki. "But no offense." --{{User:Jay/sig}} 03:09, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
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::Seriously, you just made my day :-D {{User:Loafing/sig}} 05:27, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
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:::Deaf watchers, eh? I'd assume ''captions'', as opposed to ''subtitles'' would be more important then, yes? (For the uninitiated: subtitles transcribe the words, captions transcribe all the sound effects too.) {{User:Phlip/sig}} 05:38, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
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::::Take 'em as they come. --{{User:Jay/sig}} 05:49, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
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:Okay, let's just say, hypothetically, I wanted to make one of these. How would I get the frame numbers to start/stop each line on? And how would I test it? --{{User:Jay/sig}} 06:06, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
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::We haven't quite worked out the standards for subtitles/captions yet, so the format may change a little. But if you want to try it now, then here's how you do it: You need Phlip's Firefox [[User:Phlip/Greasemonkey|Greasemonkey script]]. This will give you a seek bar for Flash toons from Homestarrunner.com. It also displays the current frame number. Then you grab one of the XML files from the subtitle site, scoop it empty, and use it as a skeleton. You probably also want to copy the text of the transcript into this file and split it up into short sections or sentences that you want to display as one title. Then use the seekbar to find the first and last frame numbers for each of the sections. It gets easy after you've done it once or twice. And you get to know the toon pretty well. Also note that each character has his or her own colour code. I'll put a page online soon with some more detailed hints, and I'll come up with a way of testing the titles. &mdash; I'm still not sure where to put the page with instructions. Do people believe this should be an HRWiki project, or should it be separate? {{User:Loafing/sig}} 06:25, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
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:::Aside from the frame numbers, I'd pretty much figured that all out. I have the beginnings of a [[Halloween Potion-ma-jig]] .xml file, but without frame numbers. --{{User:Jay/sig}} 06:29, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
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::::Sound promising :-) I'll come up with a test page soon(ish). And you've heard that before, but... you should really be on IRC ;-) {{User:Loafing/sig}} 06:36, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
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:::::I've never successfully managed to join IRC when a useful conversation is taking place. Plus, I have issues getting to it. --{{User:Jay/sig}} 06:40, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
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Alright you guys, I finished the .XML file for Cool Tapes. [[User:The Mu/subtitleCoolThings|Ding!]] ¤ {{User:The Mu/sig}} 03:04, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
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Is there a talk page specifically for this project? I thought of some things to discuss, but we'd flood Da Basement. I think there should be some sort of central Wiki page for this project, even if it's in a User space. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 03:38, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
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: I'm not in the mood for IRC right now, but I figured I'd give an update. I have all of the text in my .xml file. I do not, however, have any frame numbers past the three Coach Z/Pom Pom scenarios. --{{User:Jay/sig}} 06:47, 26 August 2006 (UTC)<blockquote>
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</blockquote>
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== Uh oh. ==
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Would you please add NL to [[Subtitles:Languages]]? --[[User:Pdedecker|Pdedecker]] 11:18, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
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:I just saw that NL has been added, thanks! --[[User:Pdedecker|Pdedecker]] 18:46, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
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::Oh yes, I forgot to post in this thread. You're welcome! Cheers! &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 03:21, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
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Okay, I've got a serious problem with the [[Halloween Potion-ma-jig]] subtitiles.
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=== Finnish (FI) ===
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The individual lines Homestar has at the end of the 'toon (A bottle of this, essence of that) are not stored through frame numbers. What's worse, I can't even say something like "A bottle of ''(something)'' water" or something like that, because different lines are different lengths, meaning I have to conform to whichever one is ''shortest'' or I get glitches. Thoughts?
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I would be quite eager to start out with Finnish subtitling cartoons, as I have absolutely nothing to do after I get home from college (weird, huh?). So if someone would add Finnish there, it'd be much obliged. --[[User:Sysrq868|Sysrq868]] 16:58, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
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:You should be all set. Go crazy go nuts! &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 02:35, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
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=== Polish (PL) ===
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The individual options work fine throughout the whole 'toon, and I suspect that the Homestar transformations work fine as well (though I haven't thoroughly tested.) --{{User:Jay/sig}} 04:53, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
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What I said. [[User:JudgeDeadd|JudgeDeadd]] 04:34, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
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:You should be good to go. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 20:06, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
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:Ergh, yeah, that's the biggest problem, that we can only subtitle stuff that actually correlates to frame numbers. If audio is triggered by ActionScript independently from graphics frames, we're doomed. The same goes for sequences that are loaded separately, such as the Experimental Film Commentary or the Very, Very Little Girl easter egg. I'll have a look at that, and I'll get back to you ASAP.{{User:Loafing/sig}} 05:00, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
 
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:: Okay, the problem wasn't what I thought it was, and all known kinks are worked out. [[HRWiki:Subtitles/en/halloween2005mx]]. And with that... good nighzzzzzz... --{{User:Jay/sig}} 07:37, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
 
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:: The updates caused some formatting issues I don't like. Most specifically, anything italicized becomes mashed together with the surrounding words like''this''appears. Plus, when Homestar is dancing and Bubs is saying "Stick and move, stick and move", I originally put them on separate lines - when they appear as they do now, they look as though they're being said in turn rather than at the same time. --{{User:Jay/sig}} 17:50, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
 
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::: Patience grasshopper, for the best things come to those who wait. By "best things" I mean "the Greasemonkey version of the subtitles" and by "wait" I mean "until you see that both of these come out correctly in that version" - "Stick and move" ''is'' on its own line, spaces around italics ''aren't'' destroyed, it actually pulls the XML stuff from the wiki itself, rather than this just being here for show, etc. I'm still working out some of the kinks (like it working perfectly for me, but failing silently without even an error message for someone else... yeah, that's just a kink), but expect at least a work in progress by tomorrow or the day after or so. {{User:Phlip/sig}} 18:48, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
 
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== Now what? ==
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=== Turkish (TR) ===
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Sbemail 6 is all good to go, but what now? THe page doesn't say. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 05:12, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
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Could you add Turkish language to the subtitles, please? Peace at Home, Peace in the World [[User:85.107.249.107|85.107.249.107]] 11:05, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
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:Didn't think anybody would come this far ;-) Put it on http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/HRWiki:Subtitles/en/sbemail6, and then I'll copy it over to the external site. :-) {{User:Loafing/sig}} 05:19, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
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:I would be happy to, but tell me a little bit about yourself first. Do you intend to write the subtitles pages yourself, or do you just wish that Turkish was already available? If you mean that you're going to help write them, then why not [[Special:Userlogin|sign up for an account]]? It's free and has many benefits. On the other hand, if you just want to be able to read the site in Turkish, then we'll need to find a translator first. Please let me know. Talk atcha later! &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 00:21, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
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::All up and running :-) Is the Klingon version next? ;-) {{User:Loafing/sig}} 05:41, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
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::Hello, do you remember me? Or an IP starts with 85? Don't remember? Then, look at subtitles requests and choose Turkish(TR) from the navigation menu? Yeah, I did what you say, and it passed some time, but I was looking continually the page whether a reply comes before you reply. And, that's your answer: I'm Turkish, and so, I can read and write Turkish subtitles. I know English, of course, but not all Turks. (Or some of them are know at least). Anyway, I want Turkish subtitles add to the list, and my goal is that HR cartoons have loved by Turkish kids, adults, and everyone. Is this wrong? Say if it is. Anymore, I already tested a SB Email cartoon. Look if you want. [http://subtitles.hrwiki.org/sbemail167/tr Here comes.] OK, I think it (my reply) is long enough. I talked you and if you want, you talk atcha later, too. Thanx. [[User:Homesturk|Homesturk]] 16:57, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
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:::Ya, you just sit there and wait for that one. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 05:50, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
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:::Of course I remember you. Glad to see you created an account! I will enable the Turkish subtitles just as soon as I get a chance. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 17:11, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
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::::Feel free to add other languages to [[HRWiki:Subtitles/Characters]]... <code>xml:lang="x-klingon"</code>, I think is the right way... {{User:Phlip/sig}} 06:00, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
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::Turkish is now enabled. Start tranglin'! &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 07:51, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
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:::::Actually, it seems Klingon is [http://www.iana.org/assignments/lang-tags/i-klingon registered with IANA], so the language code would be <code>xml:lang="i-klingon"</code>... it's even the example for <code>i-</code> language codes on [http://www.w3.org/International/articles/language-tags/ this page]... {{User:Phlip/sig}} 07:20, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
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== Non-Working Link ==
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=== Italian (IT) ===
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The link to the subtitle page doesn't work. Just so you know. --{{User:TotalSpaceshipGuy3/sig}} 14:53, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
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Italian is one of the most well-known languages in the world. I think it deserves subtitles. [[User:124.176.190.64|124.176.190.64]] 08:19, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
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:See below. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 15:49, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
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:Sometimes Loafing's site is down. Wait a couple of minutes and it will be up and running. {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 15:11, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
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=== Japanese (JP) ===
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::It's a free hosting site, so we get what we pay for. It will all be better for Firefox users once Phlip has incorporated the subtitles into his Greasemonkey script. {{User:Loafing/sig}} 19:38, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
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:::At the meantime I added a mirror from my small wiki. {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 19:59, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
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== Emphasis ==
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This language is infamous for its bad translations into English - I think it deserves subtitles as well. I am also a fluent Japanese speaker. [[User:124.176.190.64|124.176.190.64]] 08:19, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
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I'm having a problem with the emphasis codes. Whenever I add them, they italicize the text fine, but remove the spaces directly around the word. I tried <nowiki><i>, <em>, and <strong></nowiki> tags. - {{User:Joshua/sig}} 19:00, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
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:See below. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 15:49, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
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:Read my post [[#Uh oh.|above]]. {{User:Phlip/sig}} 19:09, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
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::I am currently studying the Japanese language, and once I am fluent in it I would be happy to translate and transcribe japanese subtitles -- [[User:McArbys|The McArby!]] 21:45, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
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::One workaround is to use <nowiki>&amp;amp;nbsp;</nowiki> to force a space. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 00:03, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
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:::There is a difference though, are you planning to write Japanese as characters, or as the English pronunciation as many anime shows do? {{User:ColdReactive/sig}} 01:54, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
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:::: Well, if I can find some sort of keyboard for Japanese characters I can switch my system language to the Kanji, but If (and probably) not, I would go for the Romanized, they would be the japanese words for sure. [[User:McArbys|The McArby!]] 02:21, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
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:::::Romanized Japanese is not how Japanese is written in everyday contexts, so Romanized Japanese is not going to do here. It needs to be in kanji and kana or it isn't worth doing. Just a reminder also that we need a high degree of fluency here before you're ready to do this (I consider myself fluent in German, yet I don't write subtitles very much just because it's really hard to reflect H*R's colloquialism in German), so it'll probably take a lot of study before you're ready to do this. Don't want to discourage you, though; in fact, I hope you'll study hard and learn Japanese really well soon. {{User:Heimstern Läufer/sig}} 02:26, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
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::::::Not discouraged at all, this is just going to get me to work even harder, Learn the Kanji, which will be really hard, and Once I am really good at it, I will volunteer to do Japanese, talk to me again about this in a couple of years. I'm taking as much as I can to figure it out, some iPhone Apps, Rosetta Stone (dosent work to well) Hoping to get a textbook. -- [[User:McArbys|The McArby!]] 02:44, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
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:::::::That's not what I meant at all. I meant something like this: "nani?!" or like that, not the characters. I think it would be better to do it this way than to fudge up the characters. {{User:ColdReactive/sig}} 19:59, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
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::::::::Personal Pronouns:
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Homestar - Boku
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Strong Bad - Ore or Ore-sama
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Strong Mad - Oira
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Strong Sad - Watakushi
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Coach Z - Washi (A good way to preserve the mispronunciations.)
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Bubs - Oira
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The Cheat - (uses own language.)
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The Poopsmith - (The Poopsmith has token a vow of silence)
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King of Town - Washi
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Homsar - Boku
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Stinkoman - Ore
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== Namespace ==
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=== Chinese (ZH) ===
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It looks like there's gonna be a whole website's worth of these pages, so to keep them organized, I made the Subtitles namespace. I didn't move anything into the new namespace yet, first because I didn't know whether anything depended on the pages' being where they are now, and second because I can see arguments for the primary organization being by language (e.g. Subtitles:en/cheatar, Subtitles:en/ween03) or by toon name (e.g. Subtitles:chetar/de, Subtitles:chetar/en) and figured we should discuss it first. (By the way, true subpages are enabled for this namespace.) &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 00:42, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
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Another popular language! [[User:124.176.190.64|124.176.190.64]] 08:19, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
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:We don't enable languages just because they're there. We have to have someone demonstrate that they're committed to working on translation. Why don't you [[Special:Userlogin|create an account]] and let us know what kind of input you can give and then we'll talk again. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 15:49, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
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:Looking at this [[:Category:Subtitles]], I believe that it makes sense to organize it by toon name.{{User:Loafing/sig}} 07:26, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
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=== Norwegian (Bokmål), code: NO-NB ===
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::Also, can I add, since we're moving stuff anyway... can we have the names match the filename of the .html file, rather than the .swf? It's easier to code, that way. {{User:Phlip/sig}} 09:43, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
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:::Fine with me. Then we need to put the swf filename back in the <transcript> tag for the external script. {{User:Loafing/sig}} 09:52, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
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::::I made subcategories for the various languages, since all the pages can be seen just by viewing the <span class="plainlinks">[http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=Special%3AAllpages&namespace=102 list of pages]</span> in the namespace. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 15:54, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
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== New version ==
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I am Norwegian, and a huge fan of both H*R and H*R Wiki (for real, they are both on my [[Wikipedia:Russ|Russ]] card!)! I was hoping you could add Norwegian Bokmål (there are two official written languages in Norway). But you must know that my intention is to only translate, like, three to five of my favourite toons, just for fun. I honestly believe that as good as all Norwegian H*R fans know English well enough to make extensive site translation unnecessary (primarily because I would guess they are all in their late teens or older). But if you would rather prefer more serious contributions, I respect that. --[[User:WP CEO|WP CEO]] 08:23, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
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:Hmm, if you know going in that you're only going to do three to five toons, then it's not really worth all the things we have to do behind the scenes to set it up. If someday you think you could add a more substantial number of subtitles (or if someone else would be willing to help out), then let me know and I'll be happy to enable them. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 15:35, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
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::Oh, I was not aware it was a big job for you, sorry! I will keep this in mind, and mention it to the H*R fans I know. Perhaps I will change my mind about it, we will see. Thanks a lot! --[[User:WP CEO|WP CEO]] 03:13, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
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Go to [[HRWiki:Subtitles/Greasemonkey]] and install that... instructions are at the top. Be aware that this is just a beta... there's probably problems with it, and the (nonexistant) options interface isn't all that user-friendly. But it's there... now you can stop complaining about the old version not liking the formatting changes... {{User:Phlip/sig}} 06:54, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
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=== Russian (Русский) (Ru) ===
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:Good Jorb! I strongly recommend that everybody installs the Greasemokey script, because it actually uses the up-to-date subtitles from the wiki. The script on the external site has been updated somewhat as well, to fix the bugs mentioned in the previous sections.{{User:Loafing/sig}} 07:04, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
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Although I am not anywhere near Russian ethnicly or have fluent knowlage of the language, I still think Russian should be added to the subtitles thing, for a hopefully better international success. {{unsigned|67.172.24.191|01:57, 9 July 2008 (UTC)}}
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:Well, it would be nice to have Russian, but I'm not going to add it unless a native or near-native speaker commits to doing a substantial number of transcripts in the language. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 03:24, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
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== Question about Strong Bad Emails ==
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=== Arabic (ar) ===
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When Strong Bad reads his email and types on his computer, are subtitles necessary? --[[User:Trogga|Trogga]] 14:28, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
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Hi! I'll request language again! My Arabic knowledge is basic, but I am upgrading it! What will you say about?<br />
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:Absolutely. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 14:30, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
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Talk atcha later! {{User:Homesturk/sig}} 12:25, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
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::Why? --[[User:Trogga|Trogga]] 14:35, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
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:We tend not to add languages unless there's someone fluent in the language willing to spend the time to make the subtitles... we [[HRWiki:Subtitles#Translating Subtitles|ask that]] people still learning a language don't write the translations &ndash; they tend sound odd (often using the wrong words, since the translator hasn't learned the right ones), or the jokes fall flat (if the translator doesn't have enough real-world experience with the language to know, say, what idioms and expressions are often used by the speakers of that language, that would be a good replacement for the ones used in the toons). But don't let that discourage you... keep plugging away at learning the language, and when you're fluent, come back and we'll be happy to set it all up for you :D {{User:Phlip/sig}} 13:39, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
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:::Because he doesn't always say what's on the screen. Look at the helium email for example. There are a few subtle differences between what he types and what he says. Check it out. Also, I remember watching an early one on the other site with captions, but with no sound. The email text wasn't captioned. But a comment he made in the middle of reading was. Now, if i had never seen this one before, how would I know where that comment referred to? In fact, with no captioning, how would I even know Strong Bad was reading out loud? {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 14:37, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
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::::And another reason I just thought of - the English ones are templates for the foreign language versions. So having that in there makes it easier for a translator to simply translate the text without having to find new frame anchors for the text. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 20:13, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
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== Sound Effect Standard ==
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=== Serbian (SR) ===
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What sound effects should be noted, and how should they be noted? One example is The Paper. My opinion is to not indicate the sound, as it's really not meaningful to the storyline at all. Even in toons like [[little animal]] The Paper's noise isn't as meaningful as what it looks like. Also, are we using Geddup Noise for the chair? Will we change to Chairscoot somewhere around email 84? Finally, we clearly don't need to note EVERY sound effect. Just the ones that are part of the storytelling, I'd say. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 14:35, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
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Please add this. [[User:RocketMasterZ|RocketMasterZ]] 21:16, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
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:I disagree. We should assume anyone using the subtitles cannot hear anything at all (and not necessarily because they're deaf; perhaps they're at work and can't turn the sound up). We should therefore caption all sound effects (unless in a particular case doing so would interfere with the dialogue), especially ones like "Preeeow", which signify events in the email. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 19:01, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
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:Unless someone makes a really strong case for why we should add another language, I think we've enabled all that we're going to for now. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 02:54, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
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::Assuming a person is deaf, then is there value in describing to them, for example, that the background noise sounds like a scratchy record? I think there's such a thing as too far here, and it's really easy to hit the point of so much caption that you can't keep up.
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=== Esperanto (eo) ===
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::Also, if you were blind, the sound "Preeow" would be important, but you know that the Preeow is happening even with the sound muted because you see it come down. We have to indicate a ringing phone because we sure can't see it ringing, but we can see The Paper come down, so what does the sfx "Preeow" add to the subtitling other than clutter? {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 19:08, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
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:::As I said before, you don't have to assume someone is deaf. The sound could just be muted. Noting ''all'' sound effects are important, because the toon wouldn't be the same without them. And how do you know that a person who now is deaf doesn't know what a record scratch sounds like? As for clutter, the "preeow" is usually the only thing going on at that point. It would not be cluttered to include it. In fact, when you watch the toon without the sound, you don't assume that The Paper is making any noise just because you see it. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 21:13, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
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I don't know how much business I have requesting Esperanto when I'm still a beginner, but it's (relatively) quickly learned. If this request hasn't sparked someone's initiative by the time I know the language better, I'll be more able to help with it myself at that point. --atimholt 02:21, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
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:Ha ha, no. No made-up languages, please. We also have a rule that someone must be fluent in a language before we add it (see also the above thread). &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 02:54, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
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::I agree with you that we shouldn't add Esperanto since we don't have a native speaker in our hands, but made-up language or not, according to Wikipedia: "Esperanto has between 100,000 and 2 million speakers in about 115 countries, and approximately one thousand native speakers". {{User:Elcool/sig}} 05:42, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
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:::How many of those do you suppose are Homestar Runner fans who will help with the translating? How many of them would be fans if only we offered Esperanto subtitles? I strongly suspect both numbers are close enough to zero not to be able to justify the overhead of adding another language. We don't add languages just because we ''can''. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 07:21, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 +
::::Well... I'm not sayin' we should... :P. {{User:Elcool/sig}} 10:03, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 +
::::I could translate some toons into esperanto. I know esperanto pretty well. Unless you really think it's a complete waste of time. [[User:Barton|Barton]]<sup>[[User talk:Barton|talk]]</sup> 17:08, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
 +
:::::Well, not to put too fine a point on it, but I think it's a complete waste of time. We don't have an Esperanto audience, so it would be translation for its own sake. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 17:51, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
-
::::I totally agree. Sound effects are an important part of the cartoons, and we should include them in the subtitles. Also, anybody who really doesn't like them, can turn sound effects off when they use the Greasemonkey script.{{User:Loafing/sig}} 21:18, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
+
=== Icelandic (IS) ===
-
::::I also agree: I think providing details about sound effects is often very important for catching all of the humor in a toon. About the example about The Paper, I think it's clear that this is one of many running gags in the H*R universe that adds to the experience because of its frequent appearance.  Including the sound effect is the only way that a deaf, etc. person can share in that. {{User:Trey56/sig}} 21:20, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
+
I'd really like to see some of the cartoons translated into Icelandic. I don't know all that much, as I'm still learning. I just think it's an interesting language and that it would be nice to see some Icelandic Homestar. --[[User:PikaSka|PikaSka]] 03:00, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
 +
:We tend not to add languages unless there's someone fluent in the language willing to spend the time to make the subtitles, and even then we're unlikely to add this specific language because there really isn't a wide audience for it. Currently I think we've enabled all that we're going to for the foreseeable future. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 03:34, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
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:::::I agree with Qermaq. It would probably be better to show most, but not all sound effects. Otherwise, those who are deaf, or have his or her sound off, possibly missing important parts of the plot through clutter or the caption text moving too quickly. I don't think every sound effect is necessary when writing captions. &mdash; {{User:Lapper/sig}} 21:22, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
+
== Where are all the Preeeeeow!s? ==
-
::::::I like including the sound effects, I think it definetly adds to the experience.&nbsp;-- [[User:Tom|Tom]] 21:28, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
+
Hey, I was looking at a few pages, and it seems not every email with [The Paper] has a <sfx>Preeeeow!</sfx> near the end.  In light of this, I propose a Preeeeow project to add the appropriate <sfx> to the SBemail subtitles. If I end up being the only one doing this, that's ok, but are there any objections/why the subtitles shouldn't include this?  Thanks for feedback, [[User:Dutchscout|Dutchscout]] 21:06, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
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:::::::I think many sound effects are notable, mind you. I guess I just question the semantic point of giving a sound effect for, say, The Paper when it conveys no meaning. In one transcript I did (anything) I didn't bother to note the scooting sound of the chair when Homestar sits, as it's meaningless (and it isn't a Geddup Noise, clearly!) - but when the sound effect is important to the plot, of course it should be noted. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 21:46, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
+
== Quoting ==
-
== Welsh ==
+
I'm thinking we should expand on the current sbemail quoting standard. Earlier subtitles have them in a usual quote, e.g.:
 +
<blockquote>
 +
"Dear Strong Bad,"<br />
 +
"Do you take you mask and boxing gloves off before you go to bed?"<br />
 +
"Sincerely, Abdi LaRue San Diego, California"
 +
</blockquote>
 +
However, the ones [[User:Rexy|Rexy]] has been doing recently in a paragraph-spanning form, e.g.:
 +
<blockquote>
 +
"Dear Strong Bad,<br />
 +
"Do you take you mask and boxing gloves off before you go to bed?<br />
 +
"Sincerely, Abdi LaRue San Diego, California"
 +
</blockquote>
 +
I find the way Rexy does it more suitable than the way we've been doing it previously. Should we add this to the standards? --[[Special:Contributions/75.5.176.233|75.5.176.233]] 22:11, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 +
:It really ends up differing depending on who made the subtitles; for instance, when I write subtitles, I tend to do the latter (though I haven't written any in a while). Would be nice if we had some standards, but while the second way is technically more correct, it's not the most well-known grammatical rule. --{{User:Jay/sig}} 23:21, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 +
:Indeed, I just noticed that some of the earlier subtitles that I wrote were ''"corrected"'' to the former (end quotes after every line) some time after I had written them. Thanks, Shwoo! 9_9 (Well, okay, like I said, it's not the most well-known grammatical rule.) --{{User:Jay/sig}} 23:24, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 +
::What (with the "Shwoo! 9_9")? --[[Special:Contributions/75.5.176.233|75.5.176.233]] 23:37, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 +
:::Shwoo was the user who "corrected" my already-correct quotation mark usage. --{{User:Jay/sig}} 00:00, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
 +
::::Those are rolling eyes. Shwoo changed something that Jay had specifically intended to be another way, although she was doing what she saw fit since we haven't discussed this before. Jay wasn't ''really'' thanking her. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 00:03, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
 +
:::::I totally missed the "Thanks,". Oops. --[[Special:Contributions/75.5.176.233|75.5.176.233]] 00:05, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
-
I can make Welsh subtitles if anyone's interested. [[User:Strong Sader|Strong Sader]] 17:36, 28 August 2006 (UTC) P.S. The subtitles don't show on my computer because it rejects the "<nowiki><br></nowiki>" in the code.
+
== Translating into italian ==
-
:Are you using Firefox? Did you install Phlip's scripts? And there should not be any <nowiki><br></nowiki>'s in the transcripts, they should be <nowiki><br/></nowiki>'s. If one is wrong, add the slash to the XML and try again. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 17:46, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
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-
::I have Internet Explorer, and I've saved the All-in-One scripts. [[User:Strong Sader|Strong Sader]] 17:49, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
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-
:::All-in-one works with IE? Really now? {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 17:54, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
+
-
::::It didn't, I was just telling you my situation. [[User:Strong Sader|Strong Sader]] 17:57, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
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-
:::::Ok, but the subtitles not showing, as you said above - on all of them? None work for you, when viewed in Firefox? {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 18:06, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
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-
== Problems with IE ==
+
Hi, I'm an italian H*R fan and I'm willing to translate the subtitles into italian, what do you think?
-
My computer screen currently reads:
+
== Subtitles Not Working? ==
-
<blockquote> The subtitles file has been found unsafe for the following reasons:
+
-
file contains tags in CDATA note 'br'x5
+
-
</blockquote>
+
-
anyone else have this problem? --{{User:Super Martyo Brother/sig}} 18:32, 28 August 2006 (UTC)P.S. replace ' with < or > respectively.
+
-
Now it says it x40
+
-
:On what page do you get this error? {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 18:37, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
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In Greasemonkey, none of the subtitles are displaying for me anymore. Does anyone else have this problem? I checked my preferences, cleared both the caches, and re-installed it. {{User:MichaelXX2/sig}} 21:07, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
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::I went to the BETA page and clicked 'watch' and the computer came up saying this. --{{User:Super Martyo Brother/sig}} 18:39, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
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:::Try the depressio watch link. I know there's no br's in that one. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 18:44, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
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-
::::That works. Still, we need to fix the ones that say 'br'. --{{User:Super Martyo Brother/sig}} 18:52, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
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:::::Ok, here's the thing. If you run Phlip's scripts in Firefox, Firefox gets the transcript from the wiki. However, that old beta site runs off its own copies, and some of them are really old and not up to standards. If you could list the ones that are buggy, then Loafing could at some point fix the problem. And be sure, when using a line break in a transcript, to always use <nowiki><br/></nowiki>. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 18:56, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
+
-
After a check of the XML files for both depressio and 3 times halloween fun job (the one i tried earlier), I discovered that there are 'br /' in 3 times halloween fun job that the computer reads as just plain old 'br'. depressio doesn't have any 'br /' or 'br's. What '''I'''
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:Works for me.  Is it a specific toon, or did you try several different ones?  Just for kicks, what versions of things do you has?  I've got FF 3.0.10 and Greasemonkey 0.8.20090123.1  {{User:GreenHelmet/sig}} 21:38, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
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think we should do is just get rid of the 'br /' and see how the subtitles run without them. --{{User:Super Martyo Brother/sig}} 18:59, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
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:PS: Oh, do you have an adblocker installed?  If so, try disabling it for both homestarrunner and hrwiki (or just disable it entirely temporarily). {{User:GreenHelmet/sig}} 21:51, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
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:You and me edited it at the same time. Weird.
+
::It works fine at my house, it's at my dad's office that it doesn't work. I don't have adblock on that computer and all of my software is up-to-date. {{User:MichaelXX2/sig}} 01:59, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
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:Anyway, I'll try to come up with a list. --{{User:Super Martyo Brother/sig}} 19:02, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
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:::And you're sure Phlip's script is installed as well as greasemonkey? {{User:DeFender1031/sig}} 02:19, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
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::After testing for a while, i've noticed that all of the ones with the error/bug still work if you wait for a while. --{{User:Super Martyo Brother/sig}} 19:19, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
+
::::Well, I can't check now, as I'm not home. Maybe I uninstalled it somewhere along the line by accident. {{User:MichaelXX2/sig}} 02:23, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
 +
I'm having this problem too. I just noticed it today.  I used it and it worked fine the other day. It seems that the script isn't finding the list of languages at [[Subtitles:Languages]].  I do have AdBlock Plus but disabled it temporarily with no change.  I'm using Firefox 3.0.11 with Greasemonkey 0.8.20090123.1 and the newest All-in-one script from [[User:Philip/Greasemonkey]] (3.2.7).  Perhaps it's related to "We will be making adjustments to the server throughout the evening, including upgrading to MediaWiki 1.15."? --[[User:Mini-Geek|Mini-Geek]]<sup>[[User_talk:Mini-Geek|t]] [[Special:Contributions/Mini-Geek|c]]</sup> 03:09, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 +
:It's related to the [[HRWiki:Upgrade to MediaWiki 1.15|new upgrade]] and the move to the /wiki/ URLs... it should be fixed now. The script should automatically prompt you to update it sometime in the next day or so, or you can just hit the install link on [[User:Phlip/Greasemonkey|the script page]] to do it yourself. If you're still not getting subtitles, it could be because you hit the "Save" or "Clear cache" buttons in the config panel while the subtitles were broken... in that case, just open up the config panel, make sure that the "language" option is set, and hit save. That should bring them back. {{User:Phlip/sig}} 16:28, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
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Please don't spend too much time over this, it's already being fixed! The problem with the CDATAs will go away soon, as we don't use them anymore in the new format. I am currently moving all subs from the external server to the wiki, and within a day or so, the problem will have fixed itself.  Also, Super Martyo, I'm curious which IE version you are using. That's a very interesting warning it spits out.{{User:Loafing/sig}} 19:21, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
+
== Subtitle List ==
-
:Too late. I have a list sitting right next to me. I did learn something, though. Stand-up does '''not''' work. --{{User:Super Martyo Brother/sig}} 19:30, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
+
[[Special:Subtitleslist]] ''really'' needs updated. And it's a good list too. {{User:Theycallmefree/sig}} 12:36, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
-
::<blockquote>Also, Super Martyo, I'm curious which IE version you are using. That's a very interesting warning it spits out.</blockquote>
+
-
::I don't know what version i'm using. can someone tell me how to find out? --{{User:Super Martyo Brother/sig}} 19:38, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
+
-
:::Help -> About {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 19:54, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
+
-
::Gah, "stand-up" really doesn't work. I'll have to look into that after school. {{User:Loafing/sig}} 20:18, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
+
== French doing awesome! ==
-
:::: IE Version 6.0.2900.2180.xpsp_sp2_gdr.050301-1519 --{{User:Super Martyo Brother/sig}} 01:33, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
+
Just wanted to mention what a truly remarkable job all the French subtitleers <!--Like "musketeers"? get it? It's lame, I know...-->are doing. There a total of 482 subtitles in English, and 230 in French. That's so close to half, I can smell the baguette! And new one's a being made every day! [http://www.hrwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Special:RecentChanges&to=20100113043529&namespace=102] So all you people working hard translating unintelligible speech into an unintelligible language - Pour yourself a glass of the finest wine cooler and nom on that rotten cheese. You deserve it! {{User:Elcool/sig}} 04:39, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
 +
:I second that!{{User:Loafing/sig}} 06:02, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
 +
::Hey, thanks for the support! I have recently taken upon myself to do one toon's French subtitles per day. If I keep this up, and assuming I do it alone (which isn't always the case, thankfully), hmm...482 - 230 = 252 days. Ooh, maths. That makes 8 months and 8 days. Hooray? Ah, whatever, goold ol' Homestar is worth it.
 +
::Anyway, I haven't done my subtitles for the day, so here goes. I might have some rotten cheese in the fridge to celebrate. Oh, and thanks again! --[[User:Meuhcoin|Meuhcoin]] 21:32, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 +
:::Nice job. I hope you reach your goals faster then you predicted :). {{User:Elcool/sig}} 22:29, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 +
::::I'm learning French now because my fiancee is from Quebec. So in a few years, I'll be able to help you out - if you don't finish in 252 days ;-){{User:Loafing/sig}} 21:20, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
 +
:::::And now we've hit the 300 mark! (THIS IS SPARTA!) {{User:RickTommy/sig}} 06:35, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
-
== Adding Flash File ==
+
== Removal ==
-
Ok, I know it's not "later" yet, but re: <code><nowiki><transcript xml:lang="en-us" file="flashfile.swf" width="550" height="400"></nowiki></code>, do we need to edit all the transcripts to add that now? {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 09:21, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
+
Can we request for the removal of languages? [[User:RickTommy|RickTommy]] 01:59, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
-
:Yes, please. The Greasemonkey script will work fine without them, but the external script needs them. {{User:Loafing/sig}} 09:31, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
+
:Why? What languages do you want to remove?--{{User:Record307/sig}} 02:17, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
 +
::Well, so far, only four toons have been translated into Polish. And there are quite a few Portuguese scripts that have only had a small fraction translated. [[User:RickTommy|RickTommy]] 02:22, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
 +
:::So? This is here for convenience. There maybe users joining that may know how to translate Polish and Portuguese.--{{User:Record307/sig}} 02:39, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
 +
::::And on a side note, why haven't Videography and DTotM been added to [[Special:Subtitleslist]]? [[User:RickTommy|RickTommy]] 02:45, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
 +
:::::Once we've added a language, it probably won't be removed. If anything is missing from the list of subtitles pages, it's because it needs to be added to [[HRWiki:Subtitles/Data]]. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 03:46, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
 +
::::::And anyways, if another Polish user comes along and see the red links, he'll be more encouraged to contribute, then going over the process of adding a new language again. {{User:Elcool/sig}} 08:59, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
-
== Links on individual pages ==
+
== Subtitles list ==
-
Should the only actual subtitle link be to an external site? Perhaps a link "Configure Mozilla Firefox to view this toon with subtitles" leading to Phlip's Greasemonkey All-in-one script should appear first, then the external link "View subtitles in Internet Explorer" later. And what about [http://www.opera.com Opera]? They have a healthy chunk of the market too. Does the external site work on Opera? If not, can it be configured to? {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 09:28, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
+
[[Special:Subtitleslist]] and [[HRwiki:Subtitles/Data]] are ''still'' outdated. Can they please be updated? {{User:RickTommy/sig}} 09:54, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
-
:<strike>There are two subtitle links. One is to the external site that displays the subtitles under the Flash file, and the other one goes to the subtitle script in the Subtitles namespace. The subtitle script eventually leads to the page that tells people about the GM script. Yes, it's not that obvious. I could have the external script detect the browser and tell people that they should use the GM script, if they attempt to view the subtitles in Firefox. I'd prefer that to adding many how-to links on every toon page.</strike> As for Opera: yes, it does work. I've just tested it with Opera 9, and it works just fine.{{User:Loafing/sig}} 09:41, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
+
:Yes, you can totally update them.{{User:Loafing/sig}} 10:17, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
-
::There should now only be internal links to the subtitles scripts on each page. The template included in each subtitle script now provides a brief explanation of how to view the subtitles. It points to the GM script and also automatically links to the external viewer as an alternative.{{User:Loafing/sig}} 10:12, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
+
-
== Capitalization, punctuation, and spelling ==
+
== The new subtitles I made won't work ==
-
We should standardize the capitalization and punctuation for the subtitles (like we do for the TGS transcripts). That is, we shouldn't use an emailer's bad capitalization and punctuation. And we should spell things exactly as Strong Bad (or whoever) ''pronounces'' them, not necessarily how they're typed. For example, on [[huttah!]], we wouldn't put "Lasko, Milwaukee, WI"; we should put "Lassss-kohhhh" (or similar), "Milwaukee, Wisacondasin". &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 21:19, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
+
With the help of someone fluent in the language, I have recently made [[Subtitles:sbemail119/es|Spanish subtitles]] for [[animal]]. Only problem is, when I use the local viewer, they don't show up. Are there extra steps I have to take to install them, or did I do something wrong? {{User:Power Pie/sig}}
-
:Very yes.{{User:Loafing/sig}} 21:21, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
+
::You made [http://www.hrwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Subtitles:sbemail119/es&diff=prev&oldid=702434 an error] with the markup, as you forgot to close one of the tags. This kind of syntax error breaks everything, that's why the subtitles weren't showing up. If you're going to make more subtitles, I suggest you use the [[User:Phlip/Greasemonkey|Greasemonkey script]]. It has the ability to preview subtitles, and throws a warning when you make a syntax error (instead of not doing anything). Hope that helped! [[User:Meuhcoin|Meuhcoin]] 14:52, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
-
::I agree on both counts.  I used "buh-heend" in [[Subtitles:sbemail88/en]], which I took right from the transcript where we describe how Strong Bad pronounces it.&nbsp;-- [[User:Tom|Tom]] 21:31, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
+
== Discouragement ==
-
:::Agree completely as well. (Well, except for how to spell Lasko, as that make makes it look like Strong Bad's spelling out the word. :P) We'll have to go through some of the already transcribed emails though, I think. {{unsigned|Joshua|22:00, 30 August 2006 (UTC)}}
+
-
::::Heh, that's funny: I noticed what you just said and fixed it above before I read your comment here. (For those reading along, I had originally put "L-A-S-K-O", which looks like "el ay ess kay oh".) &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 22:14, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
+
-
== Loading subtitles... ==
+
Is it bad form to discourage others from creating a particular subtitles script? {{User:RickTommy/sig}} 02:35, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
 +
:The proper method is to put one of our {{t|inprogress}} templates on the page as you work. Read the section addressed "to the person working" for more info. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 15:34, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
-
I was watching a toon in German (what fun!) and it was weird to see "Loading subtitles..." in English. Can this be translated for the various languages? {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 01:25, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
+
== Local viewer has PHP errors ==
-
:I'm sure it can. But where to stop? Should the menu options be internationalized as well? The error messages? The help pages that haven't been written yet? I think you do raise a valid point: If we make the Flash cartoons accessible for more people, what's they use if they don't understand the tools that are required to view the subtitles. On the other hand, this will make the whole system more complicated for us. We'd have another XML document that translates the user interface, similar to [[Subtitles:Characters]]. What do you think, Phlip?{{User:Loafing/sig}} 02:50, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
+
-
::Where to stop indeed. Aside from the pure titillation value, we're doing this for accessibility, and accessibility should be the goal. There's not a job worth doing that's not worth doing right, and if we aim to make H*R accessible to people who cannot comprehend audible English speech, we must do the job right and see to it they actually can; otherwise, all our efforts are wasted. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 02:53, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
+
-
:::I agree in principle. But nothing in this world is perfect, and we have to compromise at some stage. In the end, it comes down to how much work we are able/willing to invest in this, and I would like to remind people that Phlip and I have to program every little change into the two subtitle viewers. So whoever demands new functionality is more than welcome to submit the suggestions as a Javascript sample ;-) But seriously, internalization of the two viewers is probably not that complicated, but will take some time to implement, since the code has to be changed wherever text is presented to the user. And as I said, we have to discuss the scope of internalization. Even if the two viewers are internationalized, how do people who don't understand English know about them? How do they know about H*R in the first place? I think for now, we are already doing a good job at making the cartoon available to an audience that have problems with spoken English, or understand some written English. We're still trying ot get kinks out of the system, and I think we should focus on making the basics work first &mdash; while looking ahead to complete world domination, of course ;-) {{User:Loafing/sig}} 03:42, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
+
-
::::Clarification: Yes, I think we should do that. Later on. Or sooner, with more developers involved. And we have to know what scope the project should have. {{User:Loafing/sig}} 03:45, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
+
-
:::::I thought about doing this, and decided against it. Some notes: currently, if subtitles are turned off, the script doesn't hit the wiki. At all. For anything. The languages list is only loaded when you turn the option on, the subtitles themselves obviously only load if it's turned on. Everything else is self-contained, to save on hits to the wiki. And then the question of i18n comes up. To put the translations on the wiki would mean that everyone hits the wiki when they're using the script, not just the people watching with subtitles (which I'm guessing is a smaller group). Yes, it's cached, but it would still mean an increase in usually-unneeded traffic. And the script would fail completely if the wiki was down (sure, it could degrade gracefully to English, but it would take time for it to do so, 'cause it would have to wait for timeouts from the wiki server). The alternative is to just include the translations in the GM file itself, which would solve all of that, but it would make it much harder to add new languages later (users would have to upgrade every time a new language was added). As for the slightly smaller scope of just translating the "Loading" message, there's the same issue... if the translations are in the script they're hard to add to, and if they're on the wiki... do you want a "Loading translations of "Loading subtitles" message..." message? Should it be translated? You see where I'm going with this... To have "Loading subtitles" appear only after it had loaded the translations would be weird (and potentially confusing, especially if the wiki was down), to have it say "Loading subtitles" in English and then change to the other language after the translations are loaded would be even weirder... I can't see a way for it to work cleanly. {{User:Phlip/sig}} 04:14, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
+
-
::::::Just to note: I never intended this to be a "can you get this done by tomorrow?" kind of thing. Certainly the limitations of the code weight in here too. Still, this would not be a terribly bad future aspiration, y'know? Using this as a stepping-stone toward a later stand-alone caosed-captioning Flash player. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 09:02, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
+
-
== Translation of Proper Names ==
+
I was attempting to view [[User:20eric06|20eric06]]'s recent overhaul to [[Subtitles:xmas10/pt-br]] in the [http://subtitles.hrwiki.org/xmas10/pt-br local viewer] just for kicks, but the subtitles weren't showing up. Then I opened up the source code and here's what I get starting on line 11 (Line-wrapped to prevent an ugly mess and preserve the HTML. MediaWiki and its silly whitespace treatment. Pssh.):
-
So, for the non-English subtitles, the general trend so far has been to translate proper names.  This leads, for example, to a replacement of "Strong Bad" with "Stark Schlecht" for German subtitles and to a replacement of "Homestar" with "Étoile de Logis" for French subtitles.  Should we be doing this, or should we leave the proper names as they are.  For example, if my name happened to be "Hunter Smith" and a French newspaper was talking about me, they wouldn't change my name to "Forgeron de Chasseur".  For a better comparison, the French don't translate [http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mickey_Mouse Mickey Mouse] or [http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugs_Bunny Bugs Bunny].
+
<pre style="white-space:pre-wrap;">
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So, maybe this doesn't matter much &mdash; and maybe we keep doing it the way we're doing it because it's fun to find amusing translations of names into other languages.  After all, the likelihood that hordes of non-English speakers are going to suddenly begin appreciating Homestar Runner as a result of our efforts is scant.  I just thought it would be good to get a firm decision on the table early on in the game.
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Finally, to muddy the waters further, there are some proper names that probably ''should'' be translated no matter what.  For example, from [[Where the Crap Are We?]], I think that "Senator Pencilface" should be translated as well as possible (something like "Le Sénateur Visagedecrayon" in French, for example).  What do you all think? {{User:Trey56/sig}} 08:29, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
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:Regular names, like "Larry Paloroncini" - no need to translate. This question was faced a long time ago in [http://higbee.cots.net/Holtej/klingon/faq.htm#2.3 another Internet-based project]. Descriptive names like "A Little Girl" should be translated, of course. Most names in H*R (including his own) fall into the vast grey area between. Some like Bubs and Marzipan should be no more than transliterated phonetically, if that. A name like Caleb Rentpayer could be left alone, or the last name could be translated to the local word for "rentpayer" if the result at least resembles a possible name, as in English. Then we get to Strong Bad whose name is both descriptive and simply nominative. But, it started out as descriptive. Comparing it to Mickey Mouse isn't apt: Mickey's name tells us no more than this is a mouse named Mickey, while "Strong Bad" conjures up important expositional imagery. When the meaning of the words in the name contribute to the viewer's interpretation of the character, whether literally, figuratively, ironically, or otherwise, the name probably should be fully translated. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 09:11, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
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::I think those are some great guidelines.  Am I right in interpreting, then, that you might translate "Runner" but not "Homestar"? {{User:Trey56/sig}} 09:28, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
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:::This would mean that we'd get [[Wikipedia:Denglish|Denglish]] names such as "Homestar Laeufer", "Strong Schlecht", "Strong Traurig" etc. for the German translation. They do have a certain charme, and they are somewhat more compatible with the English versions. While combinations with English words work well in German &mdash; done right, it's even "cool" &mdash; I'm not sure if that's equally true for all languages. It might even be regarded as ridiculous. I suggest that the translators for each language decide on how they want to do it, based on the suggestions collected here. Then Trey can use names that he doesn't find ridiculous, Elcool can feel good about his Hebrew translations, and I can drive the protectors of the German language crazy with the latest Denglish creations ;-) {{User:Loafing/sig}} 05:52, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
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:Since you brought up the Mickey Mouse example, Trey: Most Disney names are actually partially translated into German. For example, Mickey is called "Micky Maus", while Scrooge McDuck is called "Dagobert Duck". Interestingly, "Goofy" is still called "Goofy", although most Germans don't know what it means. I still find it irritating when I read about Disney stuff on the web, because all the names are wrong! So yes, from my experience, I would prefer the main character names to not be translated. Here's an interesting link for [http://duckman.pettho.com/characters/scrooge.html Mr. McDuck's international pseudonyms].{{User:Loafing/sig}} 09:26, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
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::Very interesting! {{User:Trey56/sig}} 09:28, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
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Just for the record, I don't translate proper names, but use a phonetic translation. I always hated how some Hebrew translators translated "lightsaber" to the actuall (two) words for light and saber. They even did it for "Skywalker". I told myself that if I ever started translating anything, I would not repeat that same mistake. So "Strong Bad" in Hebrew is still "Strong Bad" while "Little Girl" is "Yalda Ktana". Other names, like "Micky Mouse" are not translated here. {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 17:46, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
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:Consider this: "Strong Bad" is more than a name, isn't it? It's the essential exposition of his character! He perceives himself to be strong and bad! So why not, in this one case, use the adjectives "strong" and "bad" as his name? There may be cases where in a particular language it would be awkward, but all languages have accomodations for awkward names, don't they?
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:Homestar Runner is another, though let's examine it. Runner is obvious. Homestar is a combination: "home" refers not to a house, but to one's locality, and "star" not to a glactic fireball but to a hero or achiever. These names, if translated in that light, help to expose the character and set up the resulting humor.
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:Now let's move to "Da Huuuudge". Can we translate this? Does "huuuuudge" means anything in English? As perhaps the longest-active English speaker involved in this wiki, I assure you it means nothing. I have heard theories about it meaning this of that, but "huuuuudge" means nothing. So what do we do? We transliterate. We achieve the word sound.
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:Is the US President Bush known as El Presidenta Arbusto? No, his name is not translated. Neither should any characters, unless the meaning of the name really expresses the essense of the character. Which should be thought of as rare. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 05:18, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
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::I kinda regret translating Homestar's name into Spanish, [[Subtitles_talk:Characters#Homestar_vs._Casaestrella|seeing that he still calls himself (or at least his website) "Homestar Runner" when speaking Spanish.]] On a related note, does anyone know why The Cheat remains The Cheat (sort of) in other languages? --[[User:Trogga|Trogga]] 07:01, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
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:::Maybe most langauges don't have an exact equivilant for "The Cheat"? Swedish doesn't appear to. {{User:Shwoo/sig}} 07:07, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
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::::Well, as a native German speaker, I believe that the translation guidelines for each languages will be different. It's impossible to create universal guidelines. E.L.Cool for example transliterates and translates names into Hebrew, while I would not translate names into German. Even the ones that have a meaning, such as Strong Bad or Homestar Runner. This is because most Germans speak at least a little English, and virtually everybody will know what "bad", "sad", "home" "star" etc. means. It would also look very "uncool" to translate those names. In a quiet moment, I'll change the character names on our character list back into English. As for cases such as "Da Huuuuuudge", I would probably not transliterate, since I'm also not translating the other names. In short: Translating/transliterating names will have to be discussed separately for each language, and native speakers will know best how it's usually done in their language, and how it's best understood by other native speakers.{{User:Loafing/sig}} 07:21, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
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:::::I'm not native, so I can hardly claim to have the authority Loafing has in German, but I can say I would do the exact same thing as he if I were translating into German. If I were translating into Chinese (which I'm not yet ready to do; maybe someday), it would be a very different story for a number of reasons (for example, Chinese characters can only produce a certain number of sounds, English is not as widespread among Chinese speakers, etc.). The point being that Loafing is right in suggesting that it the names really need to be decided on a language-by-language (maybe even name-by-name) basis. Ideally, we should have native speakers at least review our choices. {{User:Heimstern Läufer/sig}} 07:28, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
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What I'm gonna do for spanish subtitles (Native = Very Yes) is NOT TO CHANGE THE CHARACTER'S NAMES!!!!! I mean, it sounds truly foul to say Casaestrella Corredor. I mean, my skin goes all creepy just to say H*R's name that way. So, no. I wish to verify (And if usefull, change) all the subs in spanish and let the names be UN-literall-translated.
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Some examples are: Homestar Runner, He is Homestar Runner, His name is Homestar Runner; The King Of Town, he is the King Of Town, his name is unknown (Though it might be King Of Town), his job is being the King Of Town. AHA! JOBS! If we're speaking of jobs, then translation = literal. So the KOT would be (Not Rey de (la) ciudad) "Rey Del Pueblo". Little Girl is the little girl (Niña Pequeña). Strong Bad is one of the Brothers Strong (Name Unchanged). Coach Z is a coach (I'm in a debate of puting either "Coach Z" or "Entrenador Z"). The Cheat is a Cheat (But his full name has the [[Integral Article|Integral Article]], so, no name-change). And so on...
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What I'm saying, is that you can change the name if you're talkin' 'bout jobs, 'k? (Man, I should start calling 1-800-APOSTROHOLIC right now). {{User:Darkangel/sig}}16:25, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
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:I'd like to comment on this issue.  First off, again welcome to the wiki [[User:Darkangel|Darkangel]] and [[User:Tehleet|Tehleet]].  Thanks for helping with the Spanish translations.  I do not have a great deal of time to go over all the translations myself. However I would like to raise a few points.  First, I agree with Darkangel, "Casaestrella Corredor" does sound pretty bad to a spanish speaker (you kinda get used to it), and I do beleive that at least in Spanish, we should keep all the character names in English.  I believe most TV shows also do this (with some exceptions -- I think the Simpsons call Homer "Homero" do they not?) So the decision I guess is generally up to the translator, but since this is a group project consensus must be reached (in writing).  Like I said, keeping the titles in English I think would be a better idea.  For example, the KOT's current name "Rey de la cuidad" sounds more like "King of the City" rather than "King of Town", but "Rey del pueblo" isn't that much better since it can both mean KOT and "King of the people", the latter being the one most people would associate with first.  I had considered that myself last week and for that reason left it alone in the [[Subtitles:Characters|character names]] page.
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:Of course, doing so wouldn't just mean changing the aforementioned Character names list, but also the text of every spanish subtitle written.  Which is why I haven't tried undergoing such a feat myself. So I think, like I said before, consensus needs to be raised on this issue, and I beleive that it should be done on a per-language basis.  For some languages it may sound okay to translate names, for others it might not.  Also, per-language editing guidelines might be useful, as some translations were left {{pl|l=http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=Subtitles:firsttime/es&curid=30081&diff=419228&oldid=419227&rcid=370539 with}} {{pl|l=http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=Subtitles:xmas04/es&curid=30139&diff=419220&oldid=419137&rcid=370531 some}} {{pl|l=http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=Subtitles:firsttime/es&diff=prev&oldid=419227 errors}} that can easily be avoided (and are time consuming to identify and fix).  Some language guidelines might help (probably mostly written in English, as ironic as it may sound). It is possible other language translations might benefit from such guidelines as well. General translations can be easy, but proper translations that try their best to convey the right meaning can be a lot of work. I would like to try to reduce that work through collaboration. --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 02:54, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
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::Are there any forums in Spanish (or any of our supported languages) about Homestar Runner where we could see how native speakers handle the names? My feeling is that proper names should be translated where it would give a better understanding of the character; using that standard, the King of Town's name ''should'' be translated, since ''Rey del Pueblo'' (or ''de la Ciudad'') gives useful information, and the character is referred to as the king of the town (whether or not it is a self-appointed title and whether he has any actual power are other matters not for discussion here). Furthermore, the Brothers Strong's, Homestar Runner's, Coach Z's, the Poopsmith's, and The Cheat's personalities are all derived from their names. It therefore does make sense to translate them, if a suitable translation can be agreed upon. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 17:43, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
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:::I'm thinking about detranslating some of the Spanish names back into their official English versions, seeing that most of you seem to prefer them not translated. --[[User:Trogga|Trogga]] 22:48, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
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== Loading... Loading... ==
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I've finished the subtitles for sbemails 52-57 and 60, but when I try to test any of them, it says "Loading". It never does load nor does it need to because I'm using the testing setting. I'm using the latest version of the Greasemonkey script. &mdash;{{User:Mibluvr13/sig}} 17:31, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
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:I seem to have this same problem all the time... (namely with [[virus]]'s transcript at the moment) - {{User:Joshua/sig}} 03:13, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
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::Check to see if your XML is properly formed. Are all tags closed? Save the entire XML code (from the doctype to the closing root tag) as an XML file and open with a modern browser, it should either display the XML or point out an error. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 03:16, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
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:::If there's an error in the XML file, it should tell you about it (if you're using the test area in the GM script). If it sits on "Loading" forever, it's either having trouble loading the [[Subtitles:Characters|Characters]] page, or there's a bug in the script. Go Tools&rarr;JavaScript Console, clear it and reload the H*R page. If anything appears in the console (other than "junk after document element" and a piece of rando.xml, which I know about) tell me about it - it means there's probably a bug in the script. {{User:Phlip/sig}} 05:57, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
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== Quotes ==
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[http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=Subtitles:sbemail155/en&curid=27300&diff=362778&oldid=362766 What's wrong with using quotes when SB is reading an email?] --[[User:Trogga|Trogga]] 03:10, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
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:Nothing, as far as I know. It is a quote. What's the consensus on this as far as a standard? {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 03:17, 1 September 2006 (UTC) ADD: Joshua reverted based on admin edit. First, I disagree. While It's Dot com is a cool guy, he's just a regular user outside of enforcing the consensus of the wiki. He erred, I believe, in reverting those quotes. Big deal. Let's decide now.
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::It is better to use quotes, as this clearly shows that SB is reading an email instead of commenting on it. We should definitely use them.{{User:Loafing/sig}} 03:20, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
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:Normally I'd be fine with it, but on many occassions Strong Bad does not directly read the email as it's written. Sometimes he adds things in the email ([[isp|not even close]]), and sometimes he reads things differently than they're meant ([[senior prom|walrus association]]). Consistancy is key, and I don't think we should put quotes around them when Strong Bad doesn't directly quote them all the time. - {{User:Joshua/sig}} 03:26, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
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::But the viewer needs know that SB reading an email, indirectly or not. --[[User:Trogga|Trogga]] 03:56, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
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:::I would suppose the obvious counterargument is that they can tell because they see the email on the screen. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 03:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
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::::Why not just stick a "{reading}" sound effect at the beginning of it? --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
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:::::Yes, I think (reading) is the best and most helpful solution. We should also use it if SB reads it the wrong way (as usual), because it describes best what he does. The mockery then becomes obvious if the reader compares it with the email from the Flash file.{{User:Loafing/sig}} 04:22, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
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::::::Number A, (reading) isn't a sound effect. :P Therefore I don't think it's very nessecary to be listed upon what is effectively written sound. I think it's pretty obvious to everyone that he's reading an email, as Qermaq pointed out. The "Dear Strong Bad" and name closing on most emails should give a clue to anyone who couldn't figure it out otherwise. Also, if we put (reading) down, it'd only make sense to put (writing) down as well. It'd get pretty messy. - {{User:Joshua/sig}} 04:52, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
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:::::::We don't just note sound effects. We also use ''(angrily)'' or ''(in a bad imitation of Marzipan)'' etc. I think it makes sense to note that SB is using his reading voice. He usually talks in a normal tone while writing his reply, so we don't need to use (writing). On the other hand, you are right about the danger of clutter, and these explicit mentions of moods or tones should be used only when it is important for the mood or understanding of the cartoon.{{User:Loafing/sig}} 05:36, 1 September 2006 (UTC) Clarification: Of course these ''modifiers'' should not be noted as <sfx> elements, but included in the actual lines.
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== Ordering in Namespace Listing ==
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What is the basis for the confused ordering in [[Special:Allpages/Subtitles:!]]? Should we also provide a category which would allow for more ordered ... ordering? {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 03:31, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
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:Looks like plain ol' alphabetics to me. Reads in rows, starting with numbers, then capitals, then lowercase. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
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::Can it be more obtuse, though? We have to read across the rows, not down the columns as one woul expect. And even if that were not an issue, it's going to be a rather complicated mess. Indexing will be needed. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 04:27, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
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:::It could start at the bottom, or go right-to-left... Things are never so complicated that they can't be made worse. =3 --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
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::::If you want a nicer list than that, simply use [[:Category:Subtitles]]. I also think that there is no real need to invest much time in creating an actually readable list of subtitles. A the rate that we're currently going, most cartoons will be subtitled soon, and eventually, these lists will only used by behind-the-scenes subber gnomes. We should simply link from each article directly to the relevant subtitels in the section ''See Also''. In fact, we should start doing this right now.{{User:Loafing/sig}} 05:21, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
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== Frame count ==
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Is there any way to see the frame count BESIDES using philp's Greasemonkey script or a flash decompiler? Portable Firefox isn't working for me...--[[User:Color Printer|Color]] [[User talk:Color Printer|Printer]] 17:15, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
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:I guess you could do a Google search for "flash seek bar"... ¤ {{User:The Mu/sig}} 17:50, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
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::My normal seek bar doesn't count frames... - {{User:Joshua/sig}} 18:00, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
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::Exactly, and I can't find another that shows it. --[[User:Color Printer|Color]] [[User talk:Color Printer|Printer]] 18:05, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
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:::There's a JavaScript property for that actually, methinks. Ask Phlip about it. ¤ {{User:The Mu/sig}} 18:12, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
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== 100! ==
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We have '''one hundred''' English subtitles scripts! <sub>Well, O.K., some are still in progress as I write this, and then there are others, such as [[Subtitles:404error/en]], but still.</sub> Only ten days ago, we posted a little question if anybody would be interested in this. Wow, you guys and girls are fast! And for the records: we also have 1 Spanish, 3 French, 10 Hebrew, and 14 German subtitles scripts. You people rock! And there is still a long way to go to subtitle every cartoon, so "Rock, Rock On!" {{User:Loafing/sig}} 11:54, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
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:For a <small>currently</small> less then complete "progress report", check out [[User:Super Sam/Subtitles|this thingy]]. - {{User:Super_Sam/sig}} 13:00, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
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::Why don't we move that thingy to [[HRWiki:Subtitles/List]]. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 16:36, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
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:::Good idea.{{User:Loafing/sig}} 20:22, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
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== Cleanup Templates ==
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It seems many subtitle pages are being created with a cleanup template from the get-go. According to [[:Category:Articles needing cleanup]], "After adding this template to the beginning of the article, add a clear comment on the corresponding talk page indicating what you think should be done." But invariably, there are no comments whatsoever on the Talk page. This makes it unclear to anyone else what precisely needs the cleanup. It could be grammar, it could be framecounts, it could be a number of things, and it's a little unhelpful to expect someone to comb through it later to see what's needing cleanup. Can we all agree to take this extra step when using the template? {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 14:43, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
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:Yeah, but we don't need them on the subtitles page. I mean if it's just grammar, then they can fix it, right?--{{User:H*bad/sig}} 14:57, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
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::Well, if it just a grammatical error, then the person who noticed it clearly has some fluency in the language. It's possible, I suppose, that someone might know it's wrong but not know how to fix it. If a person is fluent enough to fix it, the template is misused in that case. Then again, it's possible the template's misused in the first example - normally we use the cleanup template on articles which are a pretty big mess. In these cases, the language might be poorly translated, but it's likely at least intelligeable to a speaker of that language even if it's laughable. So perhaps this is an inappropriate use of the template; but if it is an appropriate usage, then it's still important to post on the Talk as to why you've placed it there. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 15:06, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
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==Problematic==
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I encountered a problem while watching the english-subtitled [[different town]].  Despite the fact that their character names were all labeled correctly, subtitles for Homestar, Strong Mad, Strong Sad, and Coach Z all appeared white, as though they were labeled as "other". {{User:Ten Ten/sig}} 23:42, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
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:This probably means that you have switched the colours off. In the settings of the All-In-One Greasemonkey script, there is an option "use colours" at the bottom. You need to check that. The name labels will disappear, and the colours will return.{{User:Loafing/sig}} 09:03, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
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== Subtitle Template ==
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I think a template should be made that tells if a toon/game/etc. has subtitles, and tells which languages it is availiable in. - {{User:Super Sonic X/Sig}} 23:07, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
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:We're [[1 step ahead]] of you. Add <nowiki>{{subtitlesLinks|filename}}</nowiki> at the bottom of an article, and a list of available subtitles appears on the left hand menu column. Check the 1 step ahead article to see how it works.{{User:Loafing/sig}} 23:13, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
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== Bravo ==
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I've been third-party to this since it started, but I've been watching a few toons, and I really like what I see. As this project matures, I gotta say that this is definitely worthy of a Main Page service announcement and more to get the word out. Keep on building! &mdash;[[User:BazookaJoe|BazookaJoe]] 00:37, 25 September 2006 (UTC) (PS: Can somebody add a sfx line to [[Subtitles:sickday/en]] for SB's prolonged groan before calling for The Paper? I thought it needed it, but I'm too lazy to do this myself. Thanks.)
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==Volunteer?==
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I think we should set up some method of volunteering to do certain subtitles, because too often have I begun work on a subtitle, only to realize that it's already finished by someone else!  If we set up some kind of volunteer board/thingy, then everyone would know what subtitles are in-the-making, which ones are done, and which ones need to be finished.  If we do get it up, I volunteer for [[rock opera]]. {{User:Ten Ten/sig}} 23:54, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
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:So like a pegboard? And we put our name in saying we got dibs on the toon? This would have the problem of being abused, you see. Consider the "in progress" template - people put it on and forget to take it off when they're done, while others freely edit even though it's there. I mean, so long as no one's paying attention to policy to begin with, what's the use of MORE red tape no one's going to pay attention to? {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 00:06, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
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:'''(Edit Conflict)''' The problem with those volunteer boards is that people often don't stick to their promises and block a task for everybody else. The way we've done it so far, is the same it's being done everywhere else on the wiki: If you start working on a subtitle script, you add the <nowiki>{{inprogress}}</nowiki> template at the top, and when you finish, you remove the template. That way, we make sure, that only one person is subtitling the same toon at a time. Please note that you should only have that template on the page while you are actually working on it. If you take a longer break or go to bed, you should remove it.{{User:Loafing/sig}} 00:15, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
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== 200! ==
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Wheee! We've reached 200 English subtitles scripts :-) 211 even! If I have counted correctly, there are 125 toons left to be subtitled, 27 of which are sbemails. We also have got 44 French scripts now. Way to go! You girls and guys rock! Keep it coming :-D{{User:Loafing/sig}} 05:38, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
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== Broke? ==
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For some reason I can't view the subtitles when they're supposedly on. What's wrong? --[[User:Trogga|Trogga]] 01:21, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
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:Works for me. Did you clear your cache? Which toon did you try to watch? What's the last error messages on the Javscript Console (in Ffx's Tools menu) after it fails?{{User:Loafing/sig}} 01:38, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
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::I also can't see the subtitle button. --[[User:Trogga|Trogga]] 01:41, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
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::: No problems here. --[[User:68.201.124.72|68.201.124.72]] 01:48, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
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::::Try the following: 1) Tools - Manage User Scripts - Uninstall Homestar All-In-One. 2) Restart Firefox. 3) Go to [[User:Phlip/Greasemonkey]] and reinstall the script. 4) Again, restart Firefox. 5) Check the Preferences. Be sure mission-critical things are checked, like "show seek bar", "shpw subtitles" etc. are checked. The only things I have unchecked are the full-screen option, upside-down, plain HTML, and test subtitles. If all that fails, leave a note on Phlip's Talk, he's sure to want to be aware of it. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 03:25, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
+
-
:::::Yes, but don't forget to include the answers to my questions, or he's not going to be able to help you.{{User:Loafing/sig}} 04:04, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
+
-
::::::To be more specific, go Tools&rarr;Javascript Console, and hit Clear. Then load up a page on Homestar Runner. If any error messages appear in the console, right-click&rarr;copy and paste them here. {{User:Phlip/sig}} 05:55, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
+
-
Here's the error message I got:
+
-
<pre>Error: Node was not found
+
-
Source File:
+
-
Line: 387
+
-
Source Code:
+
-
387</pre>--[[User:Trogga|Trogga]] 15:06, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
+
-
 
+
-
== Anyone else having a problem? ==
+
-
 
+
-
I can't get the subtitles to work again.  Anybody else having the same problem?  It says loading and then doesn't load them.--{{User:Bleed0range/sig}} 07:49, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
+
-
::I thought the characters page was messed up so I tried to fix it, if it is then I couldn't figure out what was wrong or maybe this is just me.--{{User:Bleed0range/sig}} 07:55, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
+
-
I think the wiki went down briefly or something. It took a while to load for me, anyway. [[User:Shwoo|Shwoo]] 08:00, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
+
-
::Yeah, it works now.  Oh well.  I think it did need </speaker> in there that was missing.  Don't know if that would make the entire thing go down.--{{User:Bleed0range/sig}} 08:02, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
+
-
:::Yes, if the characters page is broken &mdash; for example because of a missing closing tag &mdash; then the subtitles won't display.{{User:Loafing/sig}} 08:23, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
+
-
 
+
-
== Question about the translations ==
+
-
 
+
-
I'm not sure why I'm asking this since I don't speak another language well enough to translate the subtitles, but shouldn't written things be subtitled as well? Written things that aren't spoken, I mean. Because I noticed that the Spanish subtitles for The Cheat's character just say "The Cheat noises" in Spanish, and I don't think that's hugely informative.{{User:Shwoo/sig}} 03:23, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
+
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:Good point. The Cheat's character page is a special case...{{User:Loafing/sig}} 22:10, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
+
-
 
+
-
== XML feed tech question/proposal ==
+
-
 
+
-
From a content editors point of view, it would be convienent to omit the 'end' attribute on 'line' and allow such omission to indicate 'end = next.start'.
+
-
 
+
-
Looking at the userscript, it actually doesn't seem to complicate things too much.  I think it can be taken care of in the transcriptLoaded() callback, while iterating over each line element, there is this existing code:
+
-
 
+
-
<pre>
+
-
// ignore lines with missing start/end values
+
-
// so you can add all the lines and not worry about timing them until later
+
-
if (!lines[i].getAttribute("start") || !lines[i].getAttribute("end"))
+
-
continue;
+
-
line.start = parseInt(lines[i].getAttribute("start"), 10);
+
-
line.end = parseInt(lines[i].getAttribute("end"), 10);
+
</pre>
</pre>
-
I think the 'end' attribute can be optional  &mdash; ''if and only if'' the very next line element has a satisfactory 'start' attribute &mdash; with something like:
+
{{User:Soiled Bargains/sig}} 19:11, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
 +
:There was a missing closing <code>&lt;/pre></code> tag. The tag was added and it worked. In addition, the script has been updated to handle the error more gracefully. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 03:19, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
-
<pre>
+
== Not sure if this is interesting or not... ==
-
// ignore lines with missing start/end values
+
-
// so you can add all the lines and not worry about timing them until later
+
-
// allow undefined end values to look ahead to next siblings start value,
+
-
// if it exists
+
-
if (!lines[i].getAttribute("start"))
+
-
continue;
+
-
line.start = parseInt(lines[i].getAttribute("start"), 10);
+
-
if (!lines[i].getAttribute("end"))
+
-
if (i+1 < lines.length)
+
-
                if (!lines[i+1].getAttribute("start"))
+
-
        continue;
+
-
                else
+
-
        line.end = parseInt(lines[i+1].getAttribute("start"), 10);
+
-
else
+
-
                continue;
+
-
else
+
-
line.end = parseInt(lines[i].getAttribute("end"), 10);
+
-
</pre>
+
-
End result, 'line.end' is sure to be defined (either explicitly as it is now, or inferred from the 'start' of the next line element), or the iteration continues (same as it did before).
+
...but we finally have [[500 The Cheats|a toon]] that has been subtitled into every supported language. {{User:RickTommy/sig}} 07:00, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
-
I haven't tried this out yet (I will tomorrow). Wanted to throw the idea out while it was fresh in my mind though.
+
== Subtitling Emails ==
-
{{User:Bryanc/sig}} 10:33, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
+
Should subtitles be completely grammatically correct (for things like capitalization, spacing, spelling, not pronunciation), in sbemails? (They are already being typed out on his computer) {{User:Broncotroll/sig}} 22:15, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
 +
:Give an example or two where the subtitles would differ from the text on the screen. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 22:26, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
 +
::Like in [[duck pond]], where Strong Bad pronounces unfortunately normally but spells it wrong. Or in the grillions of emails like [[the facts]] where he doesn't space after an ellipsis or types email "e-mail". Basically, anything with a <sic> in it. {{User:Broncotroll/sig}} 22:38, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
 +
:::The subtitles should be a record of what we hear. If he says "unfortunately" correctly even if he mistypes it, then we should not misspell it in the subtitles. If we put "unfortunatley", it gives the impression that he intentionally mispronounced it (which is a common enough running gag of his that it would be confusing). As for punctuation, I don't have a problem with adding a space here or there, but generally I think we should mimic Strong Bad's typing unless there's a really compelling reason to change something (a hyphen would not qualify in this case), because otherwise we're just putting doubt in the mind of the reader as to why the two differ. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 22:51, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
 +
:::: Thanks, Mr. Dot Net! So would this [http://www.hrwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Subtitles:sbemail114/en&action=edit&undoafter=702467&undo=735146 this revision] be fine (cause email was dehyphenated)?  {{User:Broncotroll/sig}} 23:21, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
 +
::::: That's not really an example of what you were talking about, because those words don't appear on the screen in the toon itself. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 23:31, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
-
:Dropping the end attribute where possible is a good idea. This should work especially well with Strong Bad's sbemail monologues. And it would force me to finally update the external viewer (which has been displaying subtitles differently from the official version for months now ;-). I'm not too sure about the possibility of having lines without a start attribute, though. We will at least have to display a warning that there are errors in the subtitles - which is basically what we do now. What do you think, Phlip?{{User:Loafing/sig}} 11:01, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
+
== Idea for a language, and it's just for laughs ==
-
::Oh, I'm not suggesting no start attribute, I think that's a must. But yeah, for the end attr, in the limited editing I've done I typically want to leave the subtitle up until the next one, giving people ample reading time... unless there is a very long silence (not often), or if the silence is a notable part of the composition/comedic effect (important sometimes).
+
This would be just for laughs, but we all know about YouTube's terrible auto-captions, right? I guess we could take that a tiny bit further. So, we I came up with (Strong) Bad Translator Language! Now for your laughter needs. I really think this'd be funny. Any takers on this ridiculous project? --[[User:Camwoodstock|Camwoodstock]] 19:59, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
 +
:HRWiki is an encyclopedia, not a playground; and we don't condone such ridiculous projects. In other words, we don't do things like this "just for laughs". It wouldn't be helpful. It might start out being funny, but it would quickly turn into an annoyance. Besides, most of the cartoons can already be found on YouTube, and the bad subtitles can already be applied there. So if you want the bad subtitles, go ahead and watch them on YouTube. {{User:The Knights Who Say Ni/sig}} 20:50, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
 +
::HRWiki is an encyclopedia, but it's one based on dumb animal characters. We do plenty of things just for laughs if the joke is funny enough. That said, I don't see the potential humor here as being enough to outweigh the technical expense. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 22:35, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
 +
:::<small><font color=#808080>I was hoping I wouldn't sound like I was coming across too harshly. I don't think I succeeded.</font></small> Yes, we do tend to have fun around here. We definitely want to keep an enjoyable atmosphere, so there certainly are some things that happen just for laughs. I'm not suggesting otherwise. But I think I said "things like this". I think it would be harder to come to an agreement on what belongs in the articles (in this case, on which word of Mangled English wasn't said, but should go in the caption anyway), thus making it not worth the time. {{User:The Knights Who Say Ni/sig}} 01:32, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
 +
I can understand, but I would still like to see this done. If there can be support for custom subtitles, without having languages, I would like that at least.
 +
:Using the "test subtitles script" feature in [[User:Phlip/Greasemonkey|Phlip's greasemonkey plugin]], you can input whatever subtitles you want. Feel free to do so in your own browser any time you wish. Just don't expect the wiki to store your custom subtitles for you. {{User:DeFender1031/sig}} 22:43, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
 +
::Oh, thanks. Sorry, new to subtitles. :/ --[[User:Camwoodstock|Camwoodstock]] 18:21, 23 July 2013 (UTC)
-
::Note that in my changes above - everything happens ''before'' any of the error detection is done.
+
== Local viewer broken on IE 11, Flash 15 ==
-
::Aside: The above change (presuming it works), could even allow for end attributes along the lines of "-2" (e.g. "end" 2 frames before the next "start").  I've not really wanted that, but it could be handy for tweaking timings. Anyway, one step at a time =) {{User:Bryanc/sig}} 11:25, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
+
I just tried viewing the Fish Eye Lens video with subtitles, and unfortunately the subtitles do not update.
-
This seems to work ok hacked together for testing.  {{User:Bryanc/sig}} 01:25, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
+
Looking at the code, this appears to be because the script is expected a function named CurrentFrame to be part of the flash movie object, but this is apparently not the case anymore - I don't know when that changed.
-
== 300! ==
+
Instead, however, there is a FrameNum property which has the same effect, and running this code in the developer console makes everything work:
-
We're getting there! With over 300(!!) English subtitles scripts, we have so far subtitled 92% of all toons that can be subtitled. The gaps in the [[HRWiki:Subtitles/List|list]] are closing, and only the [[HRWiki:Subtitles/List#Marzipan.27s_Answering_Machine|MAM]] toons seem to go slow. If we keep up the pace (Alas, Shwoo went back to school.), we should finish all toons before Decemberween. Good jorb, everybody!{{User:Loafing/sig}} 10:43, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
+
flashmovie.CurrentFrame = function() { return flashmovie.FrameNum; }
-
:I'm going through MAM's and stubbing them.  I was going to complete mam2, but it actually seems a lot easier to operate in "stub" mode and just make the transcripts XML'd! in one go, and then go back and break up the lines with timings in a second pass.  Less switching mental gears.
+
In the interest of making sure this doesn't disrupt other browsers, I would suggest only running it if the normal function doesn't exist:
-
:{{User:Bryanc/sig}} 11:38, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
+
-
:Actually, I stopped because exams are coming up. If there's any more subtitles left to do next week after exams finish, I'll do some more then. {{User:Shwoo/sig}} 05:10, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
+
if (flashmovie.CurrentFrame === undefined && flashmovie.FrameNum !== undefined) {
 +
  flashmovie.CurrentFrame = function() { return flashmovie.FrameNum; }
 +
}
-
::Double-yay! :-){{User:Loafing/sig}} 05:35, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
+
Adding those lines to the end of the setup() function seemed to work fine. [[User:Pidgeot|Pidgeot]] <small>[[User_talk:Pidgeot|(t)]] [[Special:Contributions/Pidgeot|(c)]] [[Special:Emailuser/Pidgeot|(e)]]</small> 00:34, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
-
== External Viewer ==
+
== Flash File Subs ==
-
I have finally updated the external viewer so that it can handle the "new" subtitles format (the one we've been working with for the last few months). Could you folks please try it out and see if you can spot any bugs? It would also be good to know which browsers work and which don't. Post your results here, and I'll see if I can fix those bugs ;-){{User:Loafing/sig}} 09:25, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
+
I've noticed while viewing flash files the subtitles now work there although they hadn't previously. This means that secret toons that only have .swf file remaining such as "Non-Sequitur Champion", "Strong Bad is a bad guy" and even "Happy T" and the Limozeen Thanksgiving cards can most likely now be subtitled. --[[User:Happypasta|Happypasta]] 00:33, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
-
:Hey Loafing. I was checking out the updated external viewer, and the [http://hstarsubs.awardspace.com/subtitles.html?sbemail/en sbemail menu] doesn't load at all. :/ - {{User:The Joe/sig}} 14:52, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
+
== Translating names in the subtitles ==
-
::Hey The Joe, the transcript element in the subtitles did not have a file attribute. I fixed it.{{User:Loafing/sig}} 20:53, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
+
-
:I could not make it work with Internet Explorer 7 Beta 3. Would be great if someone with an actual release version could try it out.{{User:Loafing/sig}} 00:08, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
+
What is the standard for translating the characters' names into the various languages vs. not doing so? I just saw an anonny take perfectly good Spanish names on a Spanish subtitles page and translate them back into English. I've seen several pages which retained the English names though, so I thought I'd ask. {{User:The Knights Who Say Ni/sig}} 15:15, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
-
::It won't work with Mozilla Firefox 1.0.7. <s>{{User:Y2K/sig}} 06:16, 14 February 2007 (UTC)</s> {{unsigned|138.130.37.153|06:16, 14 February 2007}}
+
-
:::Hmm, is there a reason why you have such an old version?{{User:Loafing/sig}} 06:51, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
+
-
::::I was using my dad's computer. Once he downloaded Firefox, he never upgraded. --[[User:144.136.124.15|144.136.124.15]] 05:40, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
+
-
== Syncronisation ==
+
== Hiding then appearing words or phrases ==
-
Could somebody else please look at the subtitles for [[The King of Town DVD Commentary]] and [[In Search of the Yello Dello Commentary]]? About half of the audio of both isn't synced to the video, and I didn't realise it would look different on different computers until just now. {{User:Shwoo/sig}} 10:10, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
+
In a recent [http://www.hrwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Subtitles:recordstoreday/en&diff=prev&oldid=752227 edit,] I removed the effect of hiding certain words or phrases and then showing them at a later moment. This trend has bothered me for a very long time, as the effect is often unnecessary. I especially oppose it when the effect gets in the way of somebody actually reading the dialog, as there have been many instances where certain words only appear for 20 frames or less. A common argument is that hiding a punchline will allow a soundless viewer to enjoy the punchline in a similar fashion that one of the hearing-persuasion would, but in the case of the Record Store Day reversion, there were no punchlines that were enhanced or prevented from spoilery by hiding the word. I believe the purpose of subtitles in any medium is to allow someone to easily and effortlessly follow the story where sound is present, and it is in my opinion that obstructing words in situations where it is unnecessary is an effort against accessibility. What do you guys think? {{User:MichaelXX2/sig}} 21:16, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
-
:They are fine for me. What seems to happen with these two is that each line (or each couple of lines) they say in the commentary is triggered at a set frame &mdash; which is the same for everybody on each computer. The last frame of each line will be different, but not by much, since the unsynched soundbytes are relatively short. So it seems you don't have to worry about those two, they are just fine :-) (yay!){{User:Loafing/sig}} 10:30, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
+
: I agree, as it happens, and I think DeFender was hasty in reverting you. I think the "hidden" text can be used well, but it is ''far'' overused by many people, and that "one letter at a time" thing you removed from Record Day (twice!) really doesn't improve anything. --{{User:Jay/sig}} 22:02, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
 +
:: Yeah, in the case of that toon revealing one word/letter at a time really hindered readability. I admit sometimes it can be used to good effect but there it didn't do anything to enhance the humor. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 17:59, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
 +
::: Honestly, I think it'd be best to keep the one about the "Cassette Maxi Single of their 7th Final Reunion Tour Brunch." would probably be better, since the humour is in the length and the ridiculousness of the release. (Also the bait-and-switch that it's a brunch at the end) - {{User:Catjaz63/sig}} 04:38, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
-
== Is the Progress Count Off? ==
+
== Subtitle fix ==
-
 
+
-
Before I added the listing for [[what I want]], the total count of toons on the progress meter was 348.  However, based on the [[HRWiki:Subtitles/List|list]] of toons, I count 345 &mdash; 346 now that I added the newest sbemail.  (I'm not counting things that could be subtitled but have no sound &mdash; there are six of those).  I count 346 toons currently on the list, 22 of which do not exist yet, and  there are none tagged <em>stub</em> at the moment.  So anyway... what am I missing? (I didn't change the progress meter at all, since my count doesn't jive with what's already there.) {{User:Bryanc/sig}} 03:30, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
+
-
 
+
-
:I might have miscounted the toons. Wouldn't be the first time. I'll recount when I'm back later tonight. Feel free to fix the meter whenever you spot errors.{{User:Loafing/sig}} 03:52, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
+
-
 
+
-
::Actually... instead of counting what's on the [[HRWiki:Subtitles/List|list]], I just looked at the count of existing english subtitles (based on the category page which for some reason I can't link to) &mdash; it's 327.  That would make the total 349 (based on 22 on the list with non-existant pages).  Does that mean there are 3 existing subtitle pages that do not appear on that [[HRWiki:Subtitles/List|list]]? {{User:Bryanc/sig}} 03:58, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
+
-
 
+
-
:::Yep. [[Subtitles:boredgames/en]], [[Subtitles:sbemail/en]] and [[Subtitles:tennis/en]] are (or, at least, were) all missing from the big list. Incidentally, you can link to a category by: <code>&#91;[:Category:English Subtitles]]</code>, which comes out like [[:Category:English Subtitles|this]]. The extra colon tells MW not to handle the link specially (you can do the same thing to [[:Image:wiki.png|link to an image]] rather than including it in the page). {{User:Phlip/sig}} 04:21, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
+
-
 
+
-
::::You're too fast for me.  I had just now figured out which 3 were missing and was about to fix it.  Well done. {{User:Bryanc/sig}} 04:38, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
+
-
 
+
-
== 100% ==
+
-
 
+
-
All the subtitles have been done! This calls for a celebration. [http://www.hrwiki.org/images/0/0c/Suudsu.PNG Suudsu, anyone?] {{User:Shwoo/sig}} 10:09, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
+
-
 
+
-
:Yay! We're at 100%. That's just amazing :-D Suudsus are on me! Good jorb, everybloody! Big kudos to the sub regulars like Mibluvr13, Shwoo, Bleedy, Bryanc etc. (sorry if I forgot your name, it's a huge project!) . I guess after our lavish party, we should think about cleaning up the subs and doing some quality control. But for now, I'll just run around with a huge smile on my face :-D (and now I'll do a little dance){{User:Loafing/sig}} 10:19, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
+
-
 
+
-
::Now let's get this freakin' party started! With a little match, and a little fire... I'm on a subtitle high. Is that even healthy? {{User:Shwoo/sig}} 10:50, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
+
-
 
+
-
:::Yay! As someone who saw it grow from nothing (way back when it wasn't even on the Greasmonkey, Loafing hosted is all by himself and the only toon was Cheatar in English and German...) to this wiki-wide project. Wow! Well, I guess it's time to work on my Hebrew translating skills :) {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 15:05, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
+
-
 
+
-
== To Preeeeoow or not to Preeeeoow? ==
+
-
 
+
-
I've noticed that some subtitles have The Paper's sound effect subtitled, and some don't. I think one should be picked for consistancy. I vote for no sound effect. The Paper doesn't even sound like that. {{User:Shwoo/sig}} 11:50, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
+
-
 
+
-
:"[[Preeeeow]]" is how TBC describe the sound, on several occasions.
+
-
 
+
-
:I think that it should be included. It is a hallmark of the sbemails and sometimes jokes are made based on it. {{User:Bryanc/sig}} 16:31, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
+
-
::Every important sound effect should be included, and the paper's coming down is definitely important. You have to assume that the person using the subtitles has no sound at all. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 18:12, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
+
-
::I agree.{{User:Loafing/sig}} 18:47, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
+
-
:::I've argued this before. As It's dot com said, you have to assume the viewer has no ability to hear the audio. This does not mean we include every sound heard in the toon in the subtitles, however. Sound effects essential to the narrative should be included. Sound effects which are not needed to understand the toon should not be included. The sound of The Paper offers no particular information to the reader. Therefore I argue no sound effect. In addition, even if one felt the sound effect was an essential part of the toon, it is accompanied by a visual every time, and as such the sound effect becomes even more unnecessary as the visual part of The Paper serves the same function as the sound. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 00:33, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
+
-
::::I agree as well :-/{{User:Loafing/sig}} 00:57, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
+
-
There are other sound-effects that are even more relevant to some storylines, and we should discuss them here as well. [[The Geddup Noise]] and the Chairscoot, for example. I don't believe that it's helpful to include The Geddup Noise in every subtitles script except maybe one or two. The sfx would clutter. Including "preeeow!" is usually easier because nothing else happens when the paper comes down. However, I believe that we should have a common standard for those sound effects. In the end, it will be more helpful to only include them in an email when they are relevant for the story. While this might be perceived as an inconsistency across the subtitles by some viewers, it will keep the subtitles generally clean and easier to read.{{User:Loafing/sig}} 00:57, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
+
-
:I disagree. So long as actual dialogue doesn't interfere, the geddup noise and the paper noise are important to be included every time they occur (I feel more strongly about the paper). There is usually no other noise surrounding them anyway. If we include them somethetimes but not other times, then I think it would be reasonable for someone who can't hear the toon to conclude that there is silence when it isn't noted, and giving them that impression is inaccurate and unfair. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 22:18, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
+
-
::If someone cannot hear the toon, then the absence of a sfx in the subtitles might very well leave the impression that there is no sound. Is it a mistaken impression? Well, of course. I ask, though, that we consider whether it is relevant. Although these subtitles are not solely for the hearing impaired, let's ask whether a hearing-impaired person is misled substantially by its exclusion. I would suggest that its inclusion is not quite "unfair", as the sfx of The Paper adds nothing of substance to the plot. Additionally, its absence allows the line preceding to remain onscreen longer, which is at times essential for readability. Finally, hearing-impaired people certainly are aware that some things make sounds that they not only cannot perceive but do not really need to perceive. If a hearing-impaired person learned from a friend that The Paper makes this weird sound that isn't noted in the transcript, my assumption would be that they would simply shrug and say, "That's interesting." I doubt they would feel cheated that we failed to spell out the onomatapoea of a sound they cannot hear anyway. In summary, there are no compelling reasons I can see to suggest we need to include it, and at least a few compelling reasons not to. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 22:34, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
+
-
 
+
-
:::How then, we were to not include The Paper's noise, would you explain to a deaf person the "preeeeow" in [[part-time job]] and the "PREEEOW!!" in [[lady fan]]?  I found those jokes funny because I've heard the noise so many times.  This is a very compelling reason to include these types of sound in every instance.&nbsp;-- [[User:Tom|Tom]] 04:03, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
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::::To clarify, I never said anything about anyone being hearing-impaired. I said someone who can't hear the toon, which includes anyone who has the sound off for whatever reason. When I watch a toon that's been muted, it is a palpable omission if certain sound effects are left out, including the paper. In short, in the back of my mind part of me is wondering if it really was silent, even if I consciously know that the paper must have made a sound because it always does. It seems empty. For the same reason, we subtitle the spoken parts of the email text themselves, even though it would be possible to conclude simply from the fact that the text is on the screen that Strong Bad is probably reading it. The subtitles let me know for sure. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 05:02, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
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:::::So let me ask: if left to you, what would be the way we would decide which sfx were subtitled and which were not? {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 08:24, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
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== External Viewer &mdash; New Version ==
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I'm using Firefox 2.0.0.1 and the subtitles appear, but the Play/Pause buttons etc., don't. Or have you just removed those buttons? --<nowiki>{{User:Y2K/sig}}</nowiki> (forgetting to log in)  {{unsigned|86.212.35.218|07:39, 24 December 2006 (UTC)}}
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:I'm running the same Firefox version and everything works fine, including pause. (I never had a button marked "play" but perhaps you were speaking generically.) I suggest uninstalling and reinstalling the script. See if that solves the issue. Further questions on it should probably go to the [[User talk:Phlip/Greasemonkey|script's talk page]]. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 09:05, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
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:That's perfectly fine, the external viewer does no longer have controls for the Flash file. They're gone for several reasons, and people who want nice controls and a seekbar should use the greasemonkey script that Qermaq pointed out :-){{User:Loafing/sig}} 09:36, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
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::You see, I was thinking you were referring to the Greasemonkey script, not the external viewer which I doubted anyone using Firefox would even bother with. As Loafing points out, any user who uses Firefox should definitely be running the Greasemonkey script. Users of other browsers should seriously consider installing Firefox even if it's solely for the purpose of viewing H*R toons with the Greasemonkey script. (I have at least 5 browsers installed, and used to have more.) {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 09:56, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
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== Answering Machine Ver. 5 ain't done yet! ==
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How come nobody's filling in the frame numbers for the 5th version of Marzipan's Answering Machine? Just one more and the subtitle project will finally be complete! Stop slackin' and get it over with already. There's nothing to it, really. (10 December 2006)
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:It's hard, it takes a long time... Actually, I was just logging on to do that now. Look at me, I'm working on Christmas Day! Everybody buy me stuff! Yeah, I'm joking. {{User:Shwoo/sig}} 05:19, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
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::You go, Shwoo! And as a reply to the anonny: If there's nothing to it, then do it yourself. The subtitles crew has done an amazing job, and nobody's in the position to call them lazy &mdash; especially an anonny who probably hasn't done any.{{User:Loafing/sig}} 10:45, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
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== Adding Subtitles section and other Issues ==
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I was going to play around with adding subtitle links to other sections after not finding any but it turns out that you already have a template meant for that, but it doesn't seem to be working!? [[Decemberween_Sweet_Cuppin%27_Cakes#External_Links|This section]] and apparently [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=Special:Whatlinkshere&target=Template%3AsubtitlesLinks other sections] too, but when I click on these pages the template does not even appear on the source wikicode. Anyway I'll look into that and see if the [[Template:subtitlesLinks|template]] can be fixed. 
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In another matter, I just finished [[Subtitles:dween cakes/es|fixing]] a Spanish translation made for the same aforementioned toon.  The subtitles guidelines clearly state that native speakers (or near-native) should be the ones working on the translations, and we should find a way to stress that a little more. However, I really do appreciate having to make minor changes here and these instead of translating from scratch.  To that end I want to create a [[:Category:Notice_Templates|notice]] for the subtitles that would tag a translation as "incomplete" or in need of verification.  (I'll do that shortly.) My only concern is that the inclusion of the template would not allow the subtitling software read it (which I doubt since they all already have a [[Template:subtitles|template]] attached to them). --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 17:21, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
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'''Update:''' I have created the [[:Category:Subtitles in Need of Verification|following category]] along with the appropriate templates for tagging translations.  The category description itself describes what they are for: there needs to be a way to identify which translations are accurate and which still need a little work.  Translators that are not fluent in the translated language ''must'' place this template on the translation.  That way little things (such as idioms) can be translated correctly by a native speaker.  There should be a section in the main page that alludes to this.  I guess I should add that shortly.  To that end, I plan on adding the template to [[HRWiki:Subtitles/List|all French and Spanish translations]] later in the day, so that, as they are verified, the template is removed from these and "marked off". I might also tag the German translations but I'm guessing E.L.Cool did the Hebrew ones and I know he is a native Hebrew speaker. That's all for now.  Please tell me what you think! --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 19:00, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
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:Good work with the template! No need to tag the German translations, they were done or proofread by native speakers. About the {{t|subtitlesLinks}} confusion: The links to the subtitles aren't displayed at the bottom of the page, but on the left hand menu column of each article, under the "external links" box. And you will often not find {{t|subtitlesLinks}} included directly in an article. For example, it's included in {{t|sbenav}} etc. It's working just fine, no need to fix it ;-){{User:Loafing/sig}} 20:20, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
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::Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! Thanks for the reply!  I was wondering what was going on! The code looked right. But I couldn't find the links anywhere, and i knew those had to be interwiki links but I could see the effect anywhere on the page! Like I [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=HRWiki:Sandbox&diff=398144&oldid=398143 said] in the sandbox, the links are rather inconspicuous if you don't know what you're looking for.  It would be nice if there was some way to offer them more prominence or at least mention somehow their existence.  Sneaky on the {{t|sbenav}} inclusion ;) I'm out of practice! And thank you on the template stuff, now i just gotta tag all spanish and french stuff. --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 20:29, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
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:::Most (if not all) of the French subtitles were done or proofread by [[User:Meuhcoin|Meuhcoin]], who is French, just so you know. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 20:56, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
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:::'''Edit conflict x2''' Okay I'm done for now.  I added the template to all spanish translations (except the first one I proofread). I also noticed that almost all french Translations were created or proofread by [[User:Meuhcoin]]. It looks very much like he's a native French Speaker, and so I just made sure he had made edits to every single French Translation page out there (which he {{p|l=http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&limit=500&target=Meuhcoin&namespace=102 did}}).  Eventually I will go through the Spanish translations. --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 21:00, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
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:Oooh! That's great. Does that mean I can put the Swedish subtitles I translated up on the wiki? My Swedish isn't very good, but it was fun to translate. {{User:Shwoo/sig}} 01:01, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
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::I wouldn't think so, because you just said yourself that your Swedish isn't very good. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 01:03, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
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::One of the big differences between the subtitles and everything else on the wiki is that the people who actually use them will not see {{t|stub}}, {{t|cleanup}}, {{t|fixtranslation}} or other templates. Potentially bad translations or messy subtitles scripts should therefore be avoided.{{User:Loafing/sig}} 01:04, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
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:::Oh, okay then. {{User:Shwoo/sig}} 01:06, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
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== Dutch (NL) subtitles ==
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Would you please add NL to [[Subtitles:Languages]]? --[[User:Pdedecker|Pdedecker]] 11:18, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
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:I just saw that NL has been added, thanks! --[[User:Pdedecker|Pdedecker]] 18:46, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
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::Oh yes, I forgot to post in this thread. You're welcome! Cheers! &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 03:21, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
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== Uhh... ==
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Okay, I've got a serious problem with the subtitles. Can you fix the subtitle errors? --[[Special:Contributions/76.177.17.164|76.177.17.164]] 21:24, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
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:I'm not having any problems. I've tried multiple toons and both the Greasemonkey and local player. What problems are you having? &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 21:40, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
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The External Viewer used to work a few days ago, but now it doesn't load anything. I haven't done anything to my computer...help! --[[User:Color Printer|Color]] [[User talk:Color Printer|Printer]] 12:08, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
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== Subtitles have lost their gumption ==
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Same here. [[User:76.184.188.124|76.184.188.124]] 16:44, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
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Ever since the release of [[Characters from Yonder Website]], the subtitles have ceased to work for me (it's the only reason I haven't created the English subtitles for it yet). Any toon that I view with the extension gets stuck on "Loading subtitles" eternally, and nothing on the seek bar works either. Is anyone <s>and/or everyone</s> else experiencing this problem? What could be causing this? {{User:SRMX12/sig}} 14:11, 30 September 2017 (UTC)
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:The local viewer works for me in several browsers using different operating systems. The Greasemonkey script works in Firefox. Have you tried turning it off and on again? &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 22:40, 30 September 2017 (UTC)
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::It works fine for me too. {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig‎}} 22:53, 30 September 2017 (UTC)
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:::I did try turning it off and on again, if by that you mean uninstalling and reinstalling it. If this has any relevance, I'm using the All-In-One extension for Chrome&mdash; I haven't tried the Greasemonkey script, since I don't have Firefox (though I might consider getting it if this persists). I notice a couple of recent reports on the Chrome extension from other users who seem to be having the same problem, so I'm guessing it's an issue with the extension, which is a little worrying. (I just checked and the local viewer works fine.) Is the extension working for anyone else? {{User:SRMX12/sig}} 00:51, 1 October 2017 (UTC)
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::::Update: I got Firefox for the heck of it, and the Greasemonkey script works fine. I think I prefer Chrome still, so I'm hoping this issue can be resolved, but this will let me create the subtitles at least. {{User:SRMX12/sig}} 01:49, 1 October 2017 (UTC)
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:::::Okay, subtitles in the All-in-One script aren't working in Chrome for me. We'll look into it. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 04:14, 1 October 2017 (UTC)
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::::::The Chrome extension is still working fine for me. Including you guys and the people on [https://www.reddit.com/r/HomestarRunner/comments/732q02/hr_chrome_extension_not_working_anymore/ the Homestar Reddit], that's six people who have noticed it stop working recently. I seem to be the only person with no problems. I'm not really sure what to do. (Nice ween sig styles, by the way, SRMX12!) {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig‎}} 05:24, 1 October 2017 (UTC)
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:::::::OK, I can see the problem, but the fix isn't trivial, it requires reworking a bunch of stuff with how the script talks to the flash object. I'm working on it, but no promises as to when it will be ready... {{User:Phlip/sig}} 12:42, 1 October 2017 (UTC)
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::::::::So it wasn't quite as bad as I thought, I've uploaded a new version of the extension to the Chrome store, so you should be getting the update automatically soon. {{User:Phlip/sig}} 05:41, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Current revision as of 05:41, 2 October 2017

Current | Archive 1 (1-20) | Archive 2 (21-40) | Archive 3 (41-60)


Contents

[edit] Language requests

[edit] Dutch (NL)

Would you please add NL to Subtitles:Languages? --Pdedecker 11:18, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I just saw that NL has been added, thanks! --Pdedecker 18:46, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
Oh yes, I forgot to post in this thread. You're welcome! Cheers! — It's dot com 03:21, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Finnish (FI)

I would be quite eager to start out with Finnish subtitling cartoons, as I have absolutely nothing to do after I get home from college (weird, huh?). So if someone would add Finnish there, it'd be much obliged. --Sysrq868 16:58, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

You should be all set. Go crazy go nuts! — It's dot com 02:35, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Polish (PL)

What I said. JudgeDeadd 04:34, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

You should be good to go. — It's dot com 20:06, 29 August 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Turkish (TR)

Could you add Turkish language to the subtitles, please? Peace at Home, Peace in the World 85.107.249.107 11:05, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

I would be happy to, but tell me a little bit about yourself first. Do you intend to write the subtitles pages yourself, or do you just wish that Turkish was already available? If you mean that you're going to help write them, then why not sign up for an account? It's free and has many benefits. On the other hand, if you just want to be able to read the site in Turkish, then we'll need to find a translator first. Please let me know. Talk atcha later! — It's dot com 00:21, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
Hello, do you remember me? Or an IP starts with 85? Don't remember? Then, look at subtitles requests and choose Turkish(TR) from the navigation menu? Yeah, I did what you say, and it passed some time, but I was looking continually the page whether a reply comes before you reply. And, that's your answer: I'm Turkish, and so, I can read and write Turkish subtitles. I know English, of course, but not all Turks. (Or some of them are know at least). Anyway, I want Turkish subtitles add to the list, and my goal is that HR cartoons have loved by Turkish kids, adults, and everyone. Is this wrong? Say if it is. Anymore, I already tested a SB Email cartoon. Look if you want. Here comes. OK, I think it (my reply) is long enough. I talked you and if you want, you talk atcha later, too. Thanx. Homesturk 16:57, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
Of course I remember you. Glad to see you created an account! I will enable the Turkish subtitles just as soon as I get a chance. — It's dot com 17:11, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
Turkish is now enabled. Start tranglin'! — It's dot com 07:51, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Italian (IT)

Italian is one of the most well-known languages in the world. I think it deserves subtitles. 124.176.190.64 08:19, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

See below. — It's dot com 15:49, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Japanese (JP)

This language is infamous for its bad translations into English - I think it deserves subtitles as well. I am also a fluent Japanese speaker. 124.176.190.64 08:19, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

See below. — It's dot com 15:49, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
I am currently studying the Japanese language, and once I am fluent in it I would be happy to translate and transcribe japanese subtitles -- The McArby! 21:45, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
There is a difference though, are you planning to write Japanese as characters, or as the English pronunciation as many anime shows do? ColdReactive 01:54, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
Well, if I can find some sort of keyboard for Japanese characters I can switch my system language to the Kanji, but If (and probably) not, I would go for the Romanized, they would be the japanese words for sure. The McArby! 02:21, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
Romanized Japanese is not how Japanese is written in everyday contexts, so Romanized Japanese is not going to do here. It needs to be in kanji and kana or it isn't worth doing. Just a reminder also that we need a high degree of fluency here before you're ready to do this (I consider myself fluent in German, yet I don't write subtitles very much just because it's really hard to reflect H*R's colloquialism in German), so it'll probably take a lot of study before you're ready to do this. Don't want to discourage you, though; in fact, I hope you'll study hard and learn Japanese really well soon. Heimstern Läufer 02:26, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
Not discouraged at all, this is just going to get me to work even harder, Learn the Kanji, which will be really hard, and Once I am really good at it, I will volunteer to do Japanese, talk to me again about this in a couple of years. I'm taking as much as I can to figure it out, some iPhone Apps, Rosetta Stone (dosent work to well) Hoping to get a textbook. -- The McArby! 02:44, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
That's not what I meant at all. I meant something like this: "nani?!" or like that, not the characters. I think it would be better to do it this way than to fudge up the characters. ColdReactive 19:59, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
Personal Pronouns:

Homestar - Boku Strong Bad - Ore or Ore-sama Strong Mad - Oira Strong Sad - Watakushi Coach Z - Washi (A good way to preserve the mispronunciations.) Bubs - Oira The Cheat - (uses own language.) The Poopsmith - (The Poopsmith has token a vow of silence) King of Town - Washi Homsar - Boku Stinkoman - Ore

[edit] Chinese (ZH)

Another popular language! 124.176.190.64 08:19, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

We don't enable languages just because they're there. We have to have someone demonstrate that they're committed to working on translation. Why don't you create an account and let us know what kind of input you can give and then we'll talk again. — It's dot com 15:49, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Norwegian (Bokmål), code: NO-NB

I am Norwegian, and a huge fan of both H*R and H*R Wiki (for real, they are both on my Russ card!)! I was hoping you could add Norwegian Bokmål (there are two official written languages in Norway). But you must know that my intention is to only translate, like, three to five of my favourite toons, just for fun. I honestly believe that as good as all Norwegian H*R fans know English well enough to make extensive site translation unnecessary (primarily because I would guess they are all in their late teens or older). But if you would rather prefer more serious contributions, I respect that. --WP CEO 08:23, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, if you know going in that you're only going to do three to five toons, then it's not really worth all the things we have to do behind the scenes to set it up. If someday you think you could add a more substantial number of subtitles (or if someone else would be willing to help out), then let me know and I'll be happy to enable them. — It's dot com 15:35, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
Oh, I was not aware it was a big job for you, sorry! I will keep this in mind, and mention it to the H*R fans I know. Perhaps I will change my mind about it, we will see. Thanks a lot! --WP CEO 03:13, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Russian (Русский) (Ru)

Although I am not anywhere near Russian ethnicly or have fluent knowlage of the language, I still think Russian should be added to the subtitles thing, for a hopefully better international success. — 67.172.24.191 (Talk | contribs) 01:57, 9 July 2008 (UTC) (left unsigned)

Well, it would be nice to have Russian, but I'm not going to add it unless a native or near-native speaker commits to doing a substantial number of transcripts in the language. — It's dot com 03:24, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Arabic (ar)

Hi! I'll request language again! My Arabic knowledge is basic, but I am upgrading it! What will you say about?
Talk atcha later! Homesturk walk&talk my subs 12:25, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

We tend not to add languages unless there's someone fluent in the language willing to spend the time to make the subtitles... we ask that people still learning a language don't write the translations – they tend sound odd (often using the wrong words, since the translator hasn't learned the right ones), or the jokes fall flat (if the translator doesn't have enough real-world experience with the language to know, say, what idioms and expressions are often used by the speakers of that language, that would be a good replacement for the ones used in the toons). But don't let that discourage you... keep plugging away at learning the language, and when you're fluent, come back and we'll be happy to set it all up for you :D --phlip TC 13:39, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Serbian (SR)

Please add this. RocketMasterZ 21:16, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Unless someone makes a really strong case for why we should add another language, I think we've enabled all that we're going to for now. — It's dot com 02:54, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Esperanto (eo)

I don't know how much business I have requesting Esperanto when I'm still a beginner, but it's (relatively) quickly learned. If this request hasn't sparked someone's initiative by the time I know the language better, I'll be more able to help with it myself at that point. --atimholt 02:21, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Ha ha, no. No made-up languages, please. We also have a rule that someone must be fluent in a language before we add it (see also the above thread). — It's dot com 02:54, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
I agree with you that we shouldn't add Esperanto since we don't have a native speaker in our hands, but made-up language or not, according to Wikipedia: "Esperanto has between 100,000 and 2 million speakers in about 115 countries, and approximately one thousand native speakers". Elcool (talk)(contribs) 05:42, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
How many of those do you suppose are Homestar Runner fans who will help with the translating? How many of them would be fans if only we offered Esperanto subtitles? I strongly suspect both numbers are close enough to zero not to be able to justify the overhead of adding another language. We don't add languages just because we can. — It's dot com 07:21, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
Well... I'm not sayin' we should... :P. Elcool (talk)(contribs) 10:03, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
I could translate some toons into esperanto. I know esperanto pretty well. Unless you really think it's a complete waste of time. Bartontalk 17:08, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
Well, not to put too fine a point on it, but I think it's a complete waste of time. We don't have an Esperanto audience, so it would be translation for its own sake. — It's dot com 17:51, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Icelandic (IS)

I'd really like to see some of the cartoons translated into Icelandic. I don't know all that much, as I'm still learning. I just think it's an interesting language and that it would be nice to see some Icelandic Homestar. --PikaSka 03:00, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

We tend not to add languages unless there's someone fluent in the language willing to spend the time to make the subtitles, and even then we're unlikely to add this specific language because there really isn't a wide audience for it. Currently I think we've enabled all that we're going to for the foreseeable future. — It's dot com 03:34, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

[edit] Where are all the Preeeeeow!s?

Hey, I was looking at a few pages, and it seems not every email with [The Paper] has a <sfx>Preeeeow!</sfx> near the end. In light of this, I propose a Preeeeow project to add the appropriate <sfx> to the SBemail subtitles. If I end up being the only one doing this, that's ok, but are there any objections/why the subtitles shouldn't include this? Thanks for feedback, Dutchscout 21:06, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Quoting

I'm thinking we should expand on the current sbemail quoting standard. Earlier subtitles have them in a usual quote, e.g.:

"Dear Strong Bad,"
"Do you take you mask and boxing gloves off before you go to bed?"
"Sincerely, Abdi LaRue San Diego, California"

However, the ones Rexy has been doing recently in a paragraph-spanning form, e.g.:

"Dear Strong Bad,
"Do you take you mask and boxing gloves off before you go to bed?
"Sincerely, Abdi LaRue San Diego, California"

I find the way Rexy does it more suitable than the way we've been doing it previously. Should we add this to the standards? --75.5.176.233 22:11, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

It really ends up differing depending on who made the subtitles; for instance, when I write subtitles, I tend to do the latter (though I haven't written any in a while). Would be nice if we had some standards, but while the second way is technically more correct, it's not the most well-known grammatical rule. --Jay o'Lantern (Haunt) 23:21, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Indeed, I just noticed that some of the earlier subtitles that I wrote were "corrected" to the former (end quotes after every line) some time after I had written them. Thanks, Shwoo! 9_9 (Well, okay, like I said, it's not the most well-known grammatical rule.) --Jay o'Lantern (Haunt) 23:24, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
What (with the "Shwoo! 9_9")? --75.5.176.233 23:37, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Shwoo was the user who "corrected" my already-correct quotation mark usage. --Jay o'Lantern (Haunt) 00:00, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
Those are rolling eyes. Shwoo changed something that Jay had specifically intended to be another way, although she was doing what she saw fit since we haven't discussed this before. Jay wasn't really thanking her. — It's dot com 00:03, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
I totally missed the "Thanks,". Oops. --75.5.176.233 00:05, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Translating into italian

Hi, I'm an italian H*R fan and I'm willing to translate the subtitles into italian, what do you think?

[edit] Subtitles Not Working?

In Greasemonkey, none of the subtitles are displaying for me anymore. Does anyone else have this problem? I checked my preferences, cleared both the caches, and re-installed it. MichaelXX2 mail_icon.gif link_icon.gif 21:07, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Works for me. Is it a specific toon, or did you try several different ones? Just for kicks, what versions of things do you has? I've got FF 3.0.10 and Greasemonkey 0.8.20090123.1  Green Helmet 21:38, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
PS: Oh, do you have an adblocker installed? If so, try disabling it for both homestarrunner and hrwiki (or just disable it entirely temporarily).  Green Helmet 21:51, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
It works fine at my house, it's at my dad's office that it doesn't work. I don't have adblock on that computer and all of my software is up-to-date. MichaelXX2 mail_icon.gif link_icon.gif 01:59, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
And you're sure Phlip's script is installed as well as greasemonkey? — Defender1031*Talk 02:19, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
Well, I can't check now, as I'm not home. Maybe I uninstalled it somewhere along the line by accident. MichaelXX2 mail_icon.gif link_icon.gif 02:23, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm having this problem too. I just noticed it today. I used it and it worked fine the other day. It seems that the script isn't finding the list of languages at Subtitles:Languages. I do have AdBlock Plus but disabled it temporarily with no change. I'm using Firefox 3.0.11 with Greasemonkey 0.8.20090123.1 and the newest All-in-one script from User:Philip/Greasemonkey (3.2.7). Perhaps it's related to "We will be making adjustments to the server throughout the evening, including upgrading to MediaWiki 1.15."? --Mini-Geekt c 03:09, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

It's related to the new upgrade and the move to the /wiki/ URLs... it should be fixed now. The script should automatically prompt you to update it sometime in the next day or so, or you can just hit the install link on the script page to do it yourself. If you're still not getting subtitles, it could be because you hit the "Save" or "Clear cache" buttons in the config panel while the subtitles were broken... in that case, just open up the config panel, make sure that the "language" option is set, and hit save. That should bring them back. --phlip TC 16:28, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Subtitle List

Special:Subtitleslist really needs updated. And it's a good list too. free 12:36, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

[edit] French doing awesome!

Just wanted to mention what a truly remarkable job all the French subtitleers are doing. There a total of 482 subtitles in English, and 230 in French. That's so close to half, I can smell the baguette! And new one's a being made every day! [1] So all you people working hard translating unintelligible speech into an unintelligible language - Pour yourself a glass of the finest wine cooler and nom on that rotten cheese. You deserve it! Elcool (talk)(contribs) 04:39, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

I second that! Loafing 06:02, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
Hey, thanks for the support! I have recently taken upon myself to do one toon's French subtitles per day. If I keep this up, and assuming I do it alone (which isn't always the case, thankfully), hmm...482 - 230 = 252 days. Ooh, maths. That makes 8 months and 8 days. Hooray? Ah, whatever, goold ol' Homestar is worth it.
Anyway, I haven't done my subtitles for the day, so here goes. I might have some rotten cheese in the fridge to celebrate. Oh, and thanks again! --Meuhcoin 21:32, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
Nice job. I hope you reach your goals faster then you predicted :). Elcool (talk)(contribs) 22:29, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
I'm learning French now because my fiancee is from Quebec. So in a few years, I'll be able to help you out - if you don't finish in 252 days ;-) Loafing 21:20, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
And now we've hit the 300 mark! (THIS IS SPARTA!) RickTommy (edits) 06:35, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Removal

Can we request for the removal of languages? RickTommy 01:59, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Why? What languages do you want to remove?--Record307 Talk/Contribs 02:17, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
Well, so far, only four toons have been translated into Polish. And there are quite a few Portuguese scripts that have only had a small fraction translated. RickTommy 02:22, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
So? This is here for convenience. There maybe users joining that may know how to translate Polish and Portuguese.--Record307 Talk/Contribs 02:39, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
And on a side note, why haven't Videography and DTotM been added to Special:Subtitleslist? RickTommy 02:45, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
Once we've added a language, it probably won't be removed. If anything is missing from the list of subtitles pages, it's because it needs to be added to HRWiki:Subtitles/Data. — It's dot com 03:46, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
And anyways, if another Polish user comes along and see the red links, he'll be more encouraged to contribute, then going over the process of adding a new language again. Elcool (talk)(contribs) 08:59, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Subtitles list

Special:Subtitleslist and HRwiki:Subtitles/Data are still outdated. Can they please be updated? RickTommy (edits) 09:54, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes, you can totally update them. Loafing 10:17, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

[edit] The new subtitles I made won't work

With the help of someone fluent in the language, I have recently made Spanish subtitles for animal. Only problem is, when I use the local viewer, they don't show up. Are there extra steps I have to take to install them, or did I do something wrong? PowerFile:Homestar Kamikaze Green Favicon.pngPie

You made an error with the markup, as you forgot to close one of the tags. This kind of syntax error breaks everything, that's why the subtitles weren't showing up. If you're going to make more subtitles, I suggest you use the Greasemonkey script. It has the ability to preview subtitles, and throws a warning when you make a syntax error (instead of not doing anything). Hope that helped! Meuhcoin 14:52, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Discouragement

Is it bad form to discourage others from creating a particular subtitles script? RickTommy (edits) 02:35, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

The proper method is to put one of our {{inprogress}} templates on the page as you work. Read the section addressed "to the person working" for more info. — It's dot com 15:34, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Local viewer has PHP errors

I was attempting to view 20eric06's recent overhaul to Subtitles:xmas10/pt-br in the local viewer just for kicks, but the subtitles weren't showing up. Then I opened up the source code and here's what I get starting on line 11 (Line-wrapped to prevent an ugly mess and preserve the HTML. MediaWiki and its silly whitespace treatment. Pssh.):

<br />
<b>Warning</b>:  DOMDocument::loadXML() [<a href='function.DOMDocument-loadXML'>function.DOMDocument-loadXML</a>]: Specification mandate value for attribute voiceove in Entity, line: 148 in <b>/home/hrwiki/public_html/subtitles/createSubJS.php</b> on line <b>85</b><br />
<br />
<b>Warning</b>:  DOMDocument::loadXML() [<a href='function.DOMDocument-loadXML'>function.DOMDocument-loadXML</a>]: attributes construct error in Entity, line: 148 in <b>/home/hrwiki/public_html/subtitles/createSubJS.php</b> on line <b>85</b><br />
<br />
<b>Warning</b>:  DOMDocument::loadXML() [<a href='function.DOMDocument-loadXML'>function.DOMDocument-loadXML</a>]: Couldn't find end of Start Tag line line 148 in Entity, line: 148 in <b>/home/hrwiki/public_html/subtitles/createSubJS.php</b> on line <b>85</b><br />
<br />
<b>Warning</b>:  DOMDocument::loadXML() [<a href='function.DOMDocument-loadXML'>function.DOMDocument-loadXML</a>]: Premature end of data in tag transcript line 2 in Entity, line: 148 in <b>/home/hrwiki/public_html/subtitles/createSubJS.php</b> on line <b>85</b><br />

Soiled Bargains (talk|ctrb) 19:11, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

There was a missing closing </pre> tag. The tag was added and it worked. In addition, the script has been updated to handle the error more gracefully. — It's dot com 03:19, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

[edit] Not sure if this is interesting or not...

...but we finally have a toon that has been subtitled into every supported language. RickTommy (edits) 07:00, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

[edit] Subtitling Emails

Should subtitles be completely grammatically correct (for things like capitalization, spacing, spelling, not pronunciation), in sbemails? (They are already being typed out on his computer) --Image:Homsariconformysig.gifBroncoTroll 22:15, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

Give an example or two where the subtitles would differ from the text on the screen. — It's dot com 22:26, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
Like in duck pond, where Strong Bad pronounces unfortunately normally but spells it wrong. Or in the grillions of emails like the facts where he doesn't space after an ellipsis or types email "e-mail". Basically, anything with a <sic> in it. --Image:Homsariconformysig.gifBroncoTroll 22:38, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
The subtitles should be a record of what we hear. If he says "unfortunately" correctly even if he mistypes it, then we should not misspell it in the subtitles. If we put "unfortunatley", it gives the impression that he intentionally mispronounced it (which is a common enough running gag of his that it would be confusing). As for punctuation, I don't have a problem with adding a space here or there, but generally I think we should mimic Strong Bad's typing unless there's a really compelling reason to change something (a hyphen would not qualify in this case), because otherwise we're just putting doubt in the mind of the reader as to why the two differ. — It's dot com 22:51, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, Mr. Dot Net! So would this this revision be fine (cause email was dehyphenated)? --Image:Homsariconformysig.gifBroncoTroll 23:21, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
That's not really an example of what you were talking about, because those words don't appear on the screen in the toon itself. — It's dot com 23:31, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

[edit] Idea for a language, and it's just for laughs

This would be just for laughs, but we all know about YouTube's terrible auto-captions, right? I guess we could take that a tiny bit further. So, we I came up with (Strong) Bad Translator Language! Now for your laughter needs. I really think this'd be funny. Any takers on this ridiculous project? --Camwoodstock 19:59, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

HRWiki is an encyclopedia, not a playground; and we don't condone such ridiculous projects. In other words, we don't do things like this "just for laughs". It wouldn't be helpful. It might start out being funny, but it would quickly turn into an annoyance. Besides, most of the cartoons can already be found on YouTube, and the bad subtitles can already be applied there. So if you want the bad subtitles, go ahead and watch them on YouTube. The Knights Who Say Ni 20:50, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
HRWiki is an encyclopedia, but it's one based on dumb animal characters. We do plenty of things just for laughs if the joke is funny enough. That said, I don't see the potential humor here as being enough to outweigh the technical expense. — It's dot com 22:35, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
I was hoping I wouldn't sound like I was coming across too harshly. I don't think I succeeded. Yes, we do tend to have fun around here. We definitely want to keep an enjoyable atmosphere, so there certainly are some things that happen just for laughs. I'm not suggesting otherwise. But I think I said "things like this". I think it would be harder to come to an agreement on what belongs in the articles (in this case, on which word of Mangled English wasn't said, but should go in the caption anyway), thus making it not worth the time. The Knights Who Say Ni 01:32, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

I can understand, but I would still like to see this done. If there can be support for custom subtitles, without having languages, I would like that at least.

Using the "test subtitles script" feature in Phlip's greasemonkey plugin, you can input whatever subtitles you want. Feel free to do so in your own browser any time you wish. Just don't expect the wiki to store your custom subtitles for you. — Defender1031*Talk 22:43, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
Oh, thanks. Sorry, new to subtitles. :/ --Camwoodstock 18:21, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

[edit] Local viewer broken on IE 11, Flash 15

I just tried viewing the Fish Eye Lens video with subtitles, and unfortunately the subtitles do not update.

Looking at the code, this appears to be because the script is expected a function named CurrentFrame to be part of the flash movie object, but this is apparently not the case anymore - I don't know when that changed.

Instead, however, there is a FrameNum property which has the same effect, and running this code in the developer console makes everything work:

flashmovie.CurrentFrame = function() { return flashmovie.FrameNum; }

In the interest of making sure this doesn't disrupt other browsers, I would suggest only running it if the normal function doesn't exist:

if (flashmovie.CurrentFrame === undefined && flashmovie.FrameNum !== undefined) {
  flashmovie.CurrentFrame = function() { return flashmovie.FrameNum; }
}

Adding those lines to the end of the setup() function seemed to work fine. Pidgeot (t) (c) (e) 00:34, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

[edit] Flash File Subs

I've noticed while viewing flash files the subtitles now work there although they hadn't previously. This means that secret toons that only have .swf file remaining such as "Non-Sequitur Champion", "Strong Bad is a bad guy" and even "Happy T" and the Limozeen Thanksgiving cards can most likely now be subtitled. --Happypasta 00:33, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

[edit] Translating names in the subtitles

What is the standard for translating the characters' names into the various languages vs. not doing so? I just saw an anonny take perfectly good Spanish names on a Spanish subtitles page and translate them back into English. I've seen several pages which retained the English names though, so I thought I'd ask. The Knights Who Say Ni 15:15, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

[edit] Hiding then appearing words or phrases

In a recent edit, I removed the effect of hiding certain words or phrases and then showing them at a later moment. This trend has bothered me for a very long time, as the effect is often unnecessary. I especially oppose it when the effect gets in the way of somebody actually reading the dialog, as there have been many instances where certain words only appear for 20 frames or less. A common argument is that hiding a punchline will allow a soundless viewer to enjoy the punchline in a similar fashion that one of the hearing-persuasion would, but in the case of the Record Store Day reversion, there were no punchlines that were enhanced or prevented from spoilery by hiding the word. I believe the purpose of subtitles in any medium is to allow someone to easily and effortlessly follow the story where sound is present, and it is in my opinion that obstructing words in situations where it is unnecessary is an effort against accessibility. What do you guys think? MichaelXX2 mail_icon.gif link_icon.gif 21:16, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

I agree, as it happens, and I think DeFender was hasty in reverting you. I think the "hidden" text can be used well, but it is far overused by many people, and that "one letter at a time" thing you removed from Record Day (twice!) really doesn't improve anything. --Jay o'Lantern (Haunt) 22:02, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
Yeah, in the case of that toon revealing one word/letter at a time really hindered readability. I admit sometimes it can be used to good effect but there it didn't do anything to enhance the humor. — It's dot com 17:59, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
Honestly, I think it'd be best to keep the one about the "Cassette Maxi Single of their 7th Final Reunion Tour Brunch." would probably be better, since the humour is in the length and the ridiculousness of the release. (Also the bait-and-switch that it's a brunch at the end) - Catjaz63 04:38, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

[edit] Subtitle fix

Okay, I've got a serious problem with the subtitles. Can you fix the subtitle errors? --76.177.17.164 21:24, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

I'm not having any problems. I've tried multiple toons and both the Greasemonkey and local player. What problems are you having? — It's dot com 21:40, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

[edit] Subtitles have lost their gumption

Ever since the release of Characters from Yonder Website, the subtitles have ceased to work for me (it's the only reason I haven't created the English subtitles for it yet). Any toon that I view with the extension gets stuck on "Loading subtitles" eternally, and nothing on the seek bar works either. Is anyone and/or everyone else experiencing this problem? What could be causing this? Lira (talk) 14:11, 30 September 2017 (UTC)

The local viewer works for me in several browsers using different operating systems. The Greasemonkey script works in Firefox. Have you tried turning it off and on again? — It's dot com 22:40, 30 September 2017 (UTC)
It works fine for me too. Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 22:53, 30 September 2017 (UTC)
I did try turning it off and on again, if by that you mean uninstalling and reinstalling it. If this has any relevance, I'm using the All-In-One extension for Chrome— I haven't tried the Greasemonkey script, since I don't have Firefox (though I might consider getting it if this persists). I notice a couple of recent reports on the Chrome extension from other users who seem to be having the same problem, so I'm guessing it's an issue with the extension, which is a little worrying. (I just checked and the local viewer works fine.) Is the extension working for anyone else? Lira (talk) 00:51, 1 October 2017 (UTC)
Update: I got Firefox for the heck of it, and the Greasemonkey script works fine. I think I prefer Chrome still, so I'm hoping this issue can be resolved, but this will let me create the subtitles at least. Lira (talk) 01:49, 1 October 2017 (UTC)
Okay, subtitles in the All-in-One script aren't working in Chrome for me. We'll look into it. — It's dot com 04:14, 1 October 2017 (UTC)
The Chrome extension is still working fine for me. Including you guys and the people on the Homestar Reddit, that's six people who have noticed it stop working recently. I seem to be the only person with no problems. I'm not really sure what to do. (Nice ween sig styles, by the way, SRMX12!) Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 05:24, 1 October 2017 (UTC)
OK, I can see the problem, but the fix isn't trivial, it requires reworking a bunch of stuff with how the script talks to the flash object. I'm working on it, but no promises as to when it will be ready... --phlip TC 12:42, 1 October 2017 (UTC)
So it wasn't quite as bad as I thought, I've uploaded a new version of the extension to the Chrome store, so you should be getting the update automatically soon. --phlip TC 05:41, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
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