Editing Talk:A Holiday Greeting

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== O Holy Crap ==

All right. I decided to put it to an official vote: Strong Bad's line as he he gets cut off. Is it the version we have now (great) or something that could be deemed offensive? This page has a history of reverts for that single line, and I thought we should get this documented. Do we report what people seem to hear and risk someone taking offense? Or do we put something that '''may''' be incorrect (or may not be), just to please the public? I'm starting on the vote. Let's get this settled once and for all, yeah? --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
:What's the other option besides "Great"? "Gay"? I definitely hear an R in there... - {{User:Joshua/sig}} 16:13, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
::Some people think it's "Criiiiii--". As in, Christ. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
:::I say make it as accurate as possible, even if it does end up offending someone.  We are a documentary service - if someone takes offense at an accurate piece of information, their wrath should be directed to TBC.  I'm sure that may have been part of the reason "Making out with Marzipan" was changed in the Homestar Talker. {{User:KieferSkunk/sig}} 16:56, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
::::'''Great''' I don't think TBC would want to offend thousands of religous people all over the world. Isn't this the reason why "Christmas" was redubbed "Decemberween"? {{User:The Chort/sig}} 17:07, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
:::::In agreement with Kiefer, no, of course we shouldn't censor. I don't think anybody at this wiki has ever entertained the idea of having a page reflect something simply because it was non-controversial; it reads "'''Great'''" right now because that's what the majority agree they hear. As do I. &mdash;[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 06:21, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
:::::: Personally, I'm not sure if another word earlier in the song isn't "bored"... --{{User:Jay/sig}} 03:00, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
:::::: Yeah, I turned the sound way up and listened close, and I heard a "D". But then, how many people ever agree with me on matters like that? But, if I'm right, should we leave that Remark about guessing the identity of the subject of SB's song? I mean, of the two biggest "clues" that people keep inserting, one is not the consensus and the other is being contested. --{{User:Jay/sig}} 03:03, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
::What's so offensive about the word "Christ" anyway? I mean, I'm a strong Christian, but words like "theory of evolution" and "Allah" don't bother me... - {{User:Joshua/sig}}
::: I'll ignore that "theory of evolution" thing and answer your question by stating that the subject of SB's song is "stupid," according to "them." (Mind, I personally would not be offended anyway, but I'm not a strong Christian in the least.) And, it's simply not what I hear; I hear an "A" vowel, not an "I". --{{User:Jay/sig}} 03:19, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
I vote Great, because it goes along with the previous context, and because I just hear it that way. {{User:Salty/sig}} 03:26, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
:Personally, I hear "Chriii" or "Criii" but instead of "Great" can this just be changed to indistinct. I mean, no one really can agree on what he says. This way it is accurate but not offensive. {{User:Raptor5ix/sig}} 18:30, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
::I vote Christ. [[User:Oyster|Oyster]] 03:02, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
::: I think he was about to say "crazy"
:::: I agree that he was gonna sa "that guy was craaaaaazy" especially since he already referred to "that guy" as "stupid."

== Bored or Born? ==

Okay, I'm making a new heading for this. Bored or born? With the volume turned up, I hear a clear (but faint) "D" sound, so I say '''Bored.''' --{{User:Jay/sig}} 03:27, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
:I can't really check right now, but from how I remember it, it was "born". I think it fits the context better, I think. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
::I also hear the faint faint faint D, but born fits the context better....ly. The D is probably just the sound when Matt closed his mouth or something, you know? --{{User:Salty/sig}} 03:35, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
::::I'm not going to go through the agony of close listening right now, but I'm just going to mention that I had always ''assumed'' from context that it was "born." I mean, ~Decemberween=Christmas, which is a "nativity" celebration; ~this song=O Holy Night, which includes the words "when Christ was born"; ~''despite'' the fact that, no, he doesn't say "Christ," the joke here seems to be that SB was singing unflatteringly about Jesus and Homestar cuts him off (note that his facial response are cued to the word "stupid"). That given, yeah, I think the remark should stay and the words should be "born" and "great" respectively. &mdash;[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 03:36, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
::::: That was never how I interpreted the joke, actually; to me, he was just forgetting the words (or intentionally getting them wrong) and making them up as he went. All in all, I'm just listening for the sound; you guys are assuming the context ahead of time. --{{User:Jay/sig}} 03:37, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
::::::'''BORN''' I'm actually hearing something like "borned". It is possible, I suppose, that Strong Bad is using substandard langugage here, although it's more likely that Salty is right and that the D sound is unintentional. {{User:Heimstern Läufer/sig}} 03:41, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
: Sigh. If Everything Else Volume 2 gives the answer to this mystery and it turns out to be bored and having nothing whatsoever to do with Christianity (besides the origin of the song)... and TBC are the sort of people to do something like that... --{{User:Jay/sig}} 03:43, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
:: I think its bored. {{User:Bubsty/sig}} 18:34, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
::: Whee! I'm not alone! And something occurred to me: the word being "born" does ''not'' fit the context! SB says "he" was ''probably'' born/ed, as though he's not sure. But later, SB talks about what "he" said, which of course implies that he existed, which in turn implies that he was ''definitely'' born. Another two cents. --{{User:Jay/sig}} 04:43, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
::::Yep. He was '''boerd'''. {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 05:00, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
:::::Vote=Bored. [[User:Oyster|Oyster]] 03:04, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
::::::Its definetly Born, I listened to it with the voluime turned up real loud. He says Born. End of story [[Special:Contributions/125.239.76.159|125.239.76.159]] 04:31, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
:::::::I distinctly hear a "d". '''Bored''' --[[Special:Contributions/75.5.176.233|75.5.176.233]] 18:08, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
::::::::'''born''' {{User:DeFender1031/sig}} 18:22, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::'''''It's born'''''. The syllable is too short to even consider calling it bored (we're not looking for a "d" sound, we're looking for a "ed"), in my opinion. Not enough to warrant a footnote. It's a parody on "O Holy Night", so I ''do'' think it fits into context perfectly. No, if the debate over whether or not SB's cut-off word was "Christ" or "great", this certainly doesn't, and I move that the footnote be DELETED. {{User:That_game_dude386/sig}} 03:33, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::It's also possible that SB is using old-english "borne". {{User:That_game_dude386/sig}} 03:36, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Any chance that what he's saying is born'd? =) --[[User:Belthazar|Belthazar]] 03:42, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
:I think this toon came before the [['d]] running gag, but I'd be in favor of putting it in the footnote, if we still are unable to come to an agreement. {{User:That_game_dude386/sig}} 15:29, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
I hate to revive an old argument, but, I have listened to this too over 100 times (Ok, 73, but still), it is DEFINITELY <b>'born'</b>. --{{User:ToaJuaraevo01/sig1}} 20:51, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

== A look at this song ==

I do not find this song offending. It shouldn't be offending to anybody. I do think that Strong Bad says that "he was probably born" because that is what I heard and because it follows the orignial song closer. I do think he says that guy is great because that was the lyric used in the last line.
Let's break it down.
Strong Bad says that they didn't know if he was really stupid. Let's just assume this is referring to Jesus. People did think He was stupid. And they still do. He stirred up a lot of controversy. There you go. And furthermore, SB ends his song by admitting and proclaiming that "that guy was great."
Crapfully crapfully, --[[User:Robert Benedicio|Robert Benedicio]] 05:24, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

:That's one way to analyze it, but I'm still offended by the "O Holy Crap" bullsh*t and them cutting Strong Sad off when he was going to say "God bless us, everyone." This one probably offended their parents. Oh, and does anyone know if The Brothers Chaps are actually involved in Catholicism or Methodism? {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}

::I'd consider that a personal affair, myself. I can see why some would be a little offended by this, though. It seems, however, that they are cool with it. Speculatively, it would seem that, if they even are practicing in some sect of Christianity, they don't take it as seriously as some other people do. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 09:21, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

:::I take it that their parents never gave them any spiritual training, and waited until they were twenty and then let them figure it out for themselves. It really sucks when people do that. And I'm not the only one to think that way. [http://www.av1611.org/othpubls/raisekid.html] {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}

::::Well, I think a lot of assumptions would have to be made here. At the end of the day, they might not even be practicing Christianity in their private life. Or they might be, and have a different approach than others. Or what have you. I know spirituality is particularly important to you, but remember we live in a diverse world. There's an old saying that no man is fit to judge another man's grace. I imagine there are two basic reactions to this toon - indifference toward the humor, and pity for how they understand the material. I can't think of another that falls in line with Christian teachings. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 02:13, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

:::::You're so right. I won't judge them, lest I'll be judged. :) {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}

::::::I think Strong Bad is saying that Jesus is stupid. That is '''not''' true. '''I REALLY HATE THAT HE SAID THAT!!!''' That is just '''WRONG'''! I am never watching this again! No, I'm not giving a link.--[[User:Onestop|ONESTOP]] 21:34, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
:::::::What i got was that SOME people say he's stupid, but strong bad was saying that he wasn't... his last line is "that guy, he was great!" {{User:DeFender1031/sig}} 21:47, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
::::::::At any rate, it is just a cartoon. Heck, Strong Bad would probably call ''anyone'' stupid, no matter how important or even holy he was. Oh, and this discussion might be better suited to the forum. {{User:Heimstern Läufer/sig}} 22:13, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
:::::::::Just how is this supposed to be offensive again? Look over the lyrics again, and pay attention to the parts I have put in bold:
:::::::::'''''"They''' didn't know<br>''
:::::::::'''''If''' he was really stupid<br>''
:::::::::''But then they asked somebody<br>''
:::::::::''And '''they said''' he was stupid<br>''
:::::::::''He said, uh, that he was great<br>''
:::::::::''And ev'body believed him<br>''
:::::::::'''That guy was GREEAAAAA—"'''''
:::::::::Don't you see? According to the song, there were some people who weren't sure whether this guy was stupid. So they asked some other people, who said he was stupid. But then the guy says, "No, I'm not. I'm not stupid. I'm great." And then everyone believed him. Strong Bad isn't calling the guy stupid, he's saying ''other people'' called him stupid. In actual fact, this guy turned out to be great. If we're talking about Jesus here, not only is this actually a compliment, but it's also partially true. Ever read The Bible? There's plenty of parts in there where some people thought he was being a bit high-and-mighty, going around claiming to be the Son of God (that's why he got crucified). But then Jesus told them, well, that he was great. And then everyone believed him. Hence, as a Christian, I was not offended at all by this song. In fact, it never occurred to me that he was even singing Jesus anyway. He could have been singing about anyone, or even no one in particular. It's just that because the original song is about the birth of Christ, everyone thinks it must be about him. Come on, Decemberween is a secular holiday! {{User:The Chort/sig}} 20:44, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::: *claps* Bravo! Bravo! You just prooved that even Strong Bad wouldn't insult Jesus! Sorry, I was trying to find a dramatic way of agreeing with you lol. Yeah, I think they call it Decemberween in the first place so they don't insult anyone. But Yeah, Strong Bad was talking about Jesus, and ''he'' never said Jesus was stupid, he said other people called him stupid, either that, or he was talking about the king who tried to kill Jesus when he was a baby. --[[User:Pretztailfan95|Pretztailfan95]] 05:22, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

== Closed STUFF ==

{{stuffcloseddecline}}
=== Thank God for STUFF ===
{{stufffact|Excluding the "Working For the Weak-End?" entry in [[Strong Sad's Lament]], this is the only time God is ever mentioned on the site, although Strong Sad is simply quoting Dickens.}}
{{stuffverdict|16:39, 8 July 2006 (UTC)|15:04, 17 July 2006 (UTC)|overwhelmingly declined|11|1|A Holiday Greeting}}

{{stuffcloseddecline}}
=== O Holy Something ===
{{stufffact|The "guy" Strong Bad is singing about is likely [[Wikipedia:Jesus|Jesus]], although the origins of Decemberween differ from those of Christmas.}}
{{stuffverdict|20:04, 30 June 2006 (UTC)|15:04, 17 July 2006 (UTC)|declined|12|6|A Holiday Greeting}}

== I have proof that who he's mentioning is Jesus Christ. ==

I've been wanting to post this for months, but I never knew how. It's basically another voting thing on wether or not Strong Bad is mentioning Jesus, or just saying Great. PLEASE READ THE PROOF BEFORE VOTING!!! I will list my proof:

*The song goes to the tune of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O_Holy_Night#Lyrics O Holy Night], a song that if you were not a Christian, you probably wouldn't know/be interested in, which probably says that the Brothers Chaps are Christians.
*Approximately 83% of the entire United States of America population is some sort of Christan, which might also say that they are Christians.
*"And He was probably born" Is a reference to the birth of Jesus Christ.
*"They didn't know if he was really stupid. But then they asked somebody, and they said he was stupid." Is a reference to people who believed that he was just posing to be him/had demonic powers, and didn't believe that he was their savior.
*"He said, uh, that he was great, and ev'body believed him." Is a reference to all of the people who believed that he was Jesus.
*If you look at [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O_Holy_Night#Lyrics the lyrics of the song], and listen to the toon at the same time, you'll notice that when Strong Bad says "That guy was {voice cracks} CHRIII—" is said on the line that says "O night divine, the night when Christ was Born". This is another possibility that who he's talking about is Jesus.
*To end the Born/Bored discussion, I hear a D in it, but after the N, so it's Born.

Now dosen't that song sound like an accurate description of Jesus? Discuss. {{unsigned|Metroidpal45|01:51, 6 January 2007}}

:First of all, despite any case you may make for it, it's not "proof". The only way to get proof would be for TBC to come out and say that he was singing about Jesus. Second, it has already been voted on and declined, so the discussion is basically over. --{{User:Exhibit A/sig}} 02:17, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
::Second of all, just because TBC are probably Christians doesn't necessarily mean that ''Strong Bad'' would be referring to Christ. Also, as mentioned in several sections above, the lyrics are in dispute. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 04:24, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
:It also sounds like an accurate description of Strong Bad's opinion of Homestar. But there's no proof of that either. {{User:Shwoo/sig}} 04:30, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

There's obviously a Jesus refference (it would be hard to avoid in a Jesus song) but I don't think it's worth mentioning on this page.

== 'Nother Goof!! ==

If you use a seek bar for IE, here's a goof I found that isn't on the list. If you fast-forward to the end, then quickly go back to somewhere in the middle, during "O Holy Crap", you can still hear "Everybody, Everybody (Decemberween Version)" in the background. Should I add this? -{{User:WeirdAl/sig}} 16:41, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
:No, that just happens because it's an event sound, unlike the streams. They did that alot in the early days, but nowadays they would probably do something else. It's really just a flash artifact, cos you aren't supposed to rewind through the toon. - {{User:The Joe/sig}} 16:44, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

::We [[HRWiki:Standards#Glitches|make a point]] of not noting glitches that can only be seen with seek bars, the right-click menu, and such. {{User:Phlip/sig}} 16:47, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

== Jeff Dunham ==

Does anybody else think that the title might refer to Jeff Dunham's "O, Holy Crap"? It's probably just a coincidence, but I just wanted to mention it.[[User:Kumquaticus|*BOOM!*Kumquaticus*BOOM!*]] 20:54, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
:I think it is a coincidence, but that's exactly what I think of now! "O Holy Crap, I think I blew my foot off!" Also, keep in mind that this toon was released long before Achmed. Perhaps a STUFF discussion? User:WeirdAl 12:17, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
::We don't do STUFF anymore. And even in the days when we DID have STUFF, we didn't immediately make a STUFF item for ever proposed fact. And i think you proved it impossible with the fact that the timing doesn't work. {{User:DeFender1031/sig}} 13:08, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Wow, I really must have spaced out for awhile there!!!! No more STUFF? OK, anything else I should know about that's been removed and/or added? Just curious, "I KEEL YOU!" [[Special:Contributions/96.227.10.236|96.227.10.236]] 21:45, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

== Whole cast... ==

Here's an idea. For the cartoons that star the entire cast, I think that we should have a filmography category for all of them at once, instead of having one category for each. "ONE for ALL" and not "ALL for ONE". Now, I know that This wouldn't count because HOMSAR's not in it, but, maybe we could do it for the others. {{User:ToaJuaraevo01/sig1}} 12:04, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
: No, because a) we list the filmography in order of appearance, which differs from toon to toon even if everyone is present, and b) if you open the one of the filmography categories, you can see each and every toon that the characters appeared in; having a single category for "all characters" would interfere with that (characters wouldn't be listed as appearing in toons that feature everyone.) --{{User:Jay/sig}} 21:42, 18 April 2013 (UTC)