Talk:Wilbur

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(Let's get the target in perspective here...: now that I think about it, its age has nothing to do with it)
(Let's get the target in perspective here...)
 
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So, to summarize my (as usual) overly long posting: If a page is difficult to find without having prior knowledge of its existence, then it might as well not exist. The content of the page doesn't do the Wiki much good. -- [[User:Laser-Grilled Crab & Cheese Sandwich|LGC&CS]] 00:40, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
So, to summarize my (as usual) overly long posting: If a page is difficult to find without having prior knowledge of its existence, then it might as well not exist. The content of the page doesn't do the Wiki much good. -- [[User:Laser-Grilled Crab & Cheese Sandwich|LGC&CS]] 00:40, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
:The obscurity of this page is inversely related to its importance, but it is linked where appropriate. I don't think anything would be served by deleting it simply for the sake of deleting it. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 00:47, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
:The obscurity of this page is inversely related to its importance, but it is linked where appropriate. I don't think anything would be served by deleting it simply for the sake of deleting it. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 00:47, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
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::I'm not calling for the page to be deleted. I'm just saying that the focus should be on making the information more accessible, and that people are arguing over pointless things that don't serve the community at large. Like I said, I think the discussion should be "How can we help people find this information?". Maybe there needs to be links to this page from one of the character list pages. Or maybe this page needs to be merged with one of them. Something. I'm not advocating a specific solution, just a change of focus. People are wasting their energy butting heads, when they could be improving the wiki ~_^ -- [[User:Laser-Grilled Crab & Cheese Sandwich|LGC&CS]] 01:23, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Current revision as of 01:23, 9 May 2007

I Don't Think We Need This Here...-Image:Homsar-in-motion.gifHomsar7(Hom · Sar)Image:Homsar-in-motion.gif

Yeah. This is an unnecessary page if ever there was one. This guy has one appearance in an email that was never even on the site. I think this should be deleted.-LordQuackingstick 22:23, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't think so. The more that can be said about the DVDs that some people can't get, the better. --DorianGray
But you can get all the information you need about this guy from the article videro games. This page should be deleted, or at least merged with something.-LordQuackingstick 22:29, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
He's a legitimate character variation. --DorianGray
I usually think characters deserve their own page, unless they can be lumped in with characters who are like them (i.e., Minor Teen Girl Squad Characters, or possibly Marshie's "mother", who was merged in with Marshie). I don't see that we could really merge Wilbur into something else. Heimstern Läufer 22:31, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
He could be put in Other Character Variations. I think that's the best choice. He'll still be told about.-LordQuackingstick 22:34, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Wilbur isn't another vartaion on The Cheat. He's treated as a completely separate charater. Heimstern Läufer 22:36, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
It's says right at the bottom he's a character variation. -LordQuackingstick 22:40, 21 January 2007 (UTC) (PS, sorry I'm being a jerk about this, but the fact this page exists really annoys me)
I agree with Heimstern, Wilbur is a separate character that deserves its own bedroom page. Keep. And, this is kinda off-topic and in no way related to the agrument above, but, why are we voting on a page that's been around for about two years? Bluebry 22:44, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Well if it must st... if it must sta... If it must stay, i just want to say this: This present of tube socks page totally sucks and I hate it.-LordQuackingstick 22:51, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Yea, I actually think that we need to remove the character variation category from this page. He only shares one characteristic with The Cheat, and based on that argument I would be nothing more than a character variation of Walter Payton (or any other human). This page should exist. As for Bluebry's question: this conversation should happen anytime that someone has questions as to why we have a certain page, section, etc. For just like we can reconsider things previously deleted, we have to look at what we've created and consider if things are as they were when a page was created, or if there is a better way for something to be represented on the wiki. - ISTC 23:01, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
About Wilbur being a variation of The Cheat, Strong Bad said that Wilbur's name "sounds an awful lot like a little video game programming version of The Cheat". Anyway, if Wilbur gets his own page, then shoudn't that other guy get one too? --Trogga 23:08, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
The other guy didn't have a name. --DorianGray
I'm on LordQuackingstick's side here. Just stick this dude in another page (preferably Videro Games or Other Character Variations) and be done with it. -Brightstar Shiner 23:12, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Finally, someone agrees with me. All these sysops were gangin' up on me!-LordQuackingstick 23:14, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
I don't think this page should be deleted, for reasons already listed above. — It's dot com 23:19, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
We just want it merged, that's all. The edit summary I used was automatic, from one I used earlier in the day. Sorry. -Brightstar Shiner 23:22, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

...So what do you suggest merging it to? Bluebry 23:26, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Other Character Variations.-LordQuackingstick 23:27, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Wilbur is not a variation of The Cheat in the same way as the variations on that page. He's a separate character. There's nothing wrong with having a short character page for him, like the Fat Bluebird. — It's dot com 23:30, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
EDIT CONFLICT: Ah, I see. Thank you. I'm going to say no to that page because I'm still against Wilbur being identified as a variation... so... keep. Bluebry 23:31, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
  • sigh* We deleted Marshie's Mother, Jumbo/LARGE, and many other very minor character/thing/saying pages. What makes this one special? -Brightstar Shiner 23:40, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Marshie's Mother never spoke. Jumbo/LARGE is a stupid phrase. Wilbur is a speaking character that has pretty much no ties with other characters. Bluebry 23:43, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
But Strong Bad describes him as a version of The Cheat!-LordQuackingstick 23:45, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
But the character himself has no ties to the character of the cheat other than the body. He doesn't speak like the cheat, act like the cheat, or do anything cheat like. The character may have been based on the idea of a video programming cheat being, but he's no more a version of the cheat than Homsar is a version of Homestar Runner. (and I enjoy using the phrase JUMBO/large!) - ISTC 23:47, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
EDIT CONFLICT:Yeah, but he didn't say he was Teh Cheat, did he? By ties, I mean family/variation. (By the way, it was programming version of The Cheat. Programming.) Bluebry 23:48, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
But that means he's a variation, right? You sysops are gonna make me cry.-LordQuackingstick 23:50, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Most people here are NOT sysops. Your misery is misplaced. Qermaq - (T/C) Image:Qermaqsigpic.png 00:07, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
It was just a joke. Sorry. -LordQuackingstick 00:09, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
TEN ZILLION EDIT CONFLICTS LATER... Create a page for one-email-only characters so he can be put there! And let me post a comment here without getting another edit conflict! -Brightstar Shiner 23:53, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
EDIT CONFLICT:Nah, methinks not. Variations are like, PBTC or Puppet Homestar. Or, to a lesser degree, Buckethand Strong Bad. Mainly, my point is, the page deserves to live. NOT EDIT CONFLICT: Nah... We can't create a compilation page for every type of character. That's why some need to be separate. Bluebry 23:55, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
EDIT CONFLICT: Wilbur is to The Cheat as Ron Cumberdale is to Rather Dashing; they're seperate characters, identical in partial appearance only, and each one has a name. They both deserve their own page. --videlectrix.pngENUSY discussionitem_icon.gif user.gifmail_icon.gif 23:57, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Sorry. Can we slow down a little and not make edits to this page at Mach 3? Thanks. This page seems so useless without being in another page. Maybe I have an organizational complex, but it would be better this way. -Brightstar Shiner 23:59, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
I really think this guy should be part of a "minor characters" thing. And, unlinke Ron Cumberdale, this guy doesn't appear outside of the DVDs. One DVD. One.-LordQuackingstick 00:01, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
We tend to treat all canon equally here, meaning that it makes no difference if a character has only appeared on the DVDs. Heimstern Läufer 00:03, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Well, I don't really think Ron needs his one article either. Maybe he and this Wilber guy can get together in a page.-LordQuackingstick 00:06, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
No... It sounds like their only similarity is the one appearance, which is too common. I mean, we're not gonna create two appearance pages, or three or four or five or six or seven.... Bluebry 00:09, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
LordQuackingstick, I'm starting to question if you really have any reason at all for wanting to merge this article except "I don't like it." You seem to go back and forth on your arguments, and no matter what anyone says, you seem unwilling to consider that they might have a point. At any rate, merges, deletions etc. are decided by community consensus. And I think it's extremely clear that the consensus is to keep this article as is. I don't really think there's any point in continuing the discussion; all we're doing is adding length to this talk page and increasing bad blood between editors. Heimstern Läufer 00:10, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
There's really only in my mind one question at play here: Is Wilber just a variation of The Cheat, or is he a separate character? If there are other separate characters without pages, I think we can open Wilbur up to merge discussion, otherwise he really should have his own page as a character within the universe of H*R. - ISTC 00:13, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Well, Strong Bad specifically called him a version of The Cheat...-LordQuackingstick 00:14, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Yes, but that's the idea of Wilbur, but the character himself, as stated before, seems to have no connection to The Cheat other than the style of body. But if there is another separate character who doesn't have his own page, I'd love to look at it and then reconsider this argument. - ISTC 00:22, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
LQ: Strong Bad also called Homesar a "blue midget Homestar", but they are separate. Wilbur is also separate. What I think Strong Bad was getting at was that Wilbur resembles a version of a The Cheat (the type of animal), rather than a version of The Cheat (the character). — It's dot com 00:32, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

LordQuackingstick and I aren't "increasing bad blood," we just want the page moved. Unfortunately, it looks as if the consensus is about 14-2, so I give up. Do whatever you want with this because I'm not willing to beg/plead/get down on my knees to convince you guys to do away with this page. This is the word of Brightstar Shiner. -Brightstar Shiner 00:17, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah... Well, I'll accept the consolation prize to all this.-LordQuackingstick 00:19, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
This should be a page, not merged. His role as Wilbur is notable and he's not really a character variation because of the totally different head and voice. But I do see why Brightstar and Lord want to merge this. He does have the body of The Chort. Alas, I vote no merge. TheYellowDart(t/c)
Wait, how is Homsar not a variation of Homestar? --Trogga 01:34, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Not to make this a running conversation but some basic differences in Homsar and Homestar are: Personality, Look, Voice, and Role. That's just a brief overview, but similar to this situation, it makes them as distict as me and my neighbor. - ISTC 01:40, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
In a sense, Homsar is a variation of Homestar, but he is not a "character variation" in the sense we use that term here. Qermaq - (T/C) Image:Qermaqsigpic.png 01:52, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
What do you mean? --Trogga 02:49, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Homsar is not another Homestar (as opposed to Stinkoman, who is another Strong Bad), he is a totally different character. The same goes for Wilbur and The Cheat, who are totally different characters even though Wilbur has a The Cheat body. Loafing 02:52, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
But Strong Bad said... never mind. --Trogga 02:55, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Yes, and "Homsar" sounds an awful lot like a dumbed down version of Homestar ;-) Loafing 02:59, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Err...Let me repeat. Quackingstick and I gave up. We want it merged with Videro Games or something else, but that's obviously not going to happen, so we're okay with letting it stay as it is. At least I am. I can't put words in Quackingstick's mouth. Anyway, I see why you guys think this guy should have his own page and your reasons make sense. However, I'll hold to my opinion indefinetly even though I'm trying not to be in this argument anymore (maybe). Finally, this page has nothing to do with Homsar or Homestar and we're just wasting space going off on a tangent about them. -Brightstar Shiner 20:35, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Personally, now that someone brought it up, I think this page should be merged. "He just look like The Cheat"? Come on, that's half the definition of a character variant. The other half is being treated like one, which Strong Bad did. You said he is not a variant because he doesn't look, talk or act like The Cheat. Well, Stinkoman was mentioned as a true variant to Strong Bad and he doesn't look, talk or act like Strong Bad anymore then Wilbur is to The Cheat. I think that this page is being declined of a merge because it's old and already established, but that is because we just skipped over it. It was made before Other Character Variations had been created and at that time a lot of pages got redirected to it. So I guess we just forgot about it. We should right our wrong and merge it there. Elcool (talk)(contribs) 16:29, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Wilbur is not The Cheat. He's Wilbur. His body is a variation of The Cheat's, but he himself is not a variation of T.C. No one would seriously recommend merging all of the Cheat Commandos with The Cheat's page, and they're a lot closer to variations of him than Wilbur is. — It's dot com 00:59, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Let's get the target in perspective here...

Hmm... I think I'm moving in on a slightly aging discussion... And I'm not even sure I can remember how I got here. And that's pretty much the reason I have something to say about this page. How is anyone supposed to find it? I think far too often these kinds of debates in Wikis, and not just the HRWiki, about the content of a page, or the very existence of a page, ignore one vitally important issue: usability. Wikis generally exist to document something, to provide an unbounded source of information, all interlinked, assembled, and polished by a caring community. But people forget that Wikis need to do more than collect information, they need to make it findable. Does it matter whether or not there's a page for something, or if it's even mentioned on a page, if nobody can find it? I think people need to stop arguing about whether or not the page needs to exist, or how important the character is, or whether they deserve equal treatment. That's not the real issue. We need to take the information and make it so people can find it!

Now, checking the wikilinks, this page is linked mostly from The Cheat, and Videro Games, as would be expected. The first of those articles, as well as Template:The Cheat variations list Wilbur as a variation of The Cheat. What I find surprising is that the Striped Green Rabbit has its own page, when Powered by The Cheat Character Variations exists. I think these odd little characters with very short pages should at least be listed (or transcluded) on some "minor characters" or "character variations" page, so that people can find them easier.

Really the question to ask is this: when someone who isn't intimately familiar with the wiki wants to go looking for this character, and they can't remember its name or where they saw it, how should they go about finding it? What would be most sensible to a casual or new H*R viewer? Really, it boils down to whether the Wiki is exclusively for a specific group of fans, or if it's supposed to be an open resource. I know this is what a certain dark, sword-wielding letter person is always griping about, and he's right, to some degree. He just says it in a way that (understandably) gets on people's nerves.

So, to summarize my (as usual) overly long posting: If a page is difficult to find without having prior knowledge of its existence, then it might as well not exist. The content of the page doesn't do the Wiki much good. -- LGC&CS 00:40, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

The obscurity of this page is inversely related to its importance, but it is linked where appropriate. I don't think anything would be served by deleting it simply for the sake of deleting it. — It's dot com 00:47, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm not calling for the page to be deleted. I'm just saying that the focus should be on making the information more accessible, and that people are arguing over pointless things that don't serve the community at large. Like I said, I think the discussion should be "How can we help people find this information?". Maybe there needs to be links to this page from one of the character list pages. Or maybe this page needs to be merged with one of them. Something. I'm not advocating a specific solution, just a change of focus. People are wasting their energy butting heads, when they could be improving the wiki ~_^ -- LGC&CS 01:23, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
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