Editing Talk:Lack of Visible Arms

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The [[The King of Town|King of Town]] also doesn't appear to have any visible arms (nor does the Prince of Town in [[flashback]]), but no direct reference is made to this.

== He just gave me the bird! ==

:''Homestar flips Strong Bad off, and Strong Bad reacts as if he can see it.''

I think the joke in [[the bird]] was that Homestar "flips off" Strong Bad by responding "right back at you" to Strong Bad's Single Deuce, as if ''he didn't even need to'' flip a hand. Understand? --[[User:Sam Goldfish|Sam Goldfish]] 22:31, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
:...Actually, you're right, I think. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
:Yeah, I was about to make that very same comment before I saw I was beaten to it. If not totally removed, I think the entry should be heavily reworded. --{{User:Jay/sig}} 03:42, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
::Nah, it's supposed to be taken straightforward; Homestar ''really'' flips him the bird. If somebody merely ''told me'' they were flipping me off, I don't think I would take it as badly as Strong Bad does. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 04:08, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
:::I had always seen it as a real, invisible one rather than "it's the thought that counts." I'm not arguing definitely against that. ''But'' a little bit of humor in the whole email comes from the fact that ''none'' of the flip-offs are visible, since even the characters with visible hands lack independent finger movement. Strong Bad's and Pom Pom's "deuces" are mere hand movements, yet all the characters seem to be perceiving the gesture. &mdash;[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 04:48, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
::::All we know for certain is that Homestar says "right back atcha," which (since it's Homestar) probably means that he either didn't see or didn't understand the gesture. (I mean two different things by that: "didn't see" would be due to the boxing gloves; "didn't understand" would be due to him being Homestar.) We do not know that Homestar really made any "hand gestures" at all, invisible hands or no; he probably just thought Strong Bad was waving, hence the "right back atcha." Since the joke works whether Homestar is actually making an invisible hand gesture or not, time to apply Occham's (sp?) Razor. --{{User:Jay/sig}} 05:01, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
::::PS. Abdi makes a good point. The only main characters who could make a visible "bird" would be Strong Mad, Strong Sad, and The Poopsmith, none of whom appeared in that email.
::::Exactly! Homestar thought Strong Bad was waving! I get it now! As for Strong Bad taking it so bad, I think that's part of the joke: He can dish it out, but he can't take it. {{User:ACupOfCoffee/sig}} 06:33, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

:::::Though note that [[Strong Mad]] would be the only one who could do it properly, as he has five fingers, while [[Strong Sad]] and [[The Poopsmith]] have four.[[User:Tom|<nowiki></nowiki>]]  --  [[User:Tom|Tom]] 06:55, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

::::::Dot com is right: It is clear that Homestar's gesture or lack thereof was taken by Strong Bad as an actual one-fingered salute. We should take it just as seriously as we take Strong Bad and Pom Pom's deuces. Yes, he may have thought Strong Bad was just "waving", but if he did, it appears that he "waved" back, and therefore, for all practical purposes, Homestar did in fact flip Strong Bad off. I hope that wasn't ridiculouly confusing; I feel like I'm rambling. If it doesn't make sense, let me know; I'll try to clarify. [[User:Heimstern Läufer|Heimstern Läufer]] 07:07, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

:::::::The quotation marks on <i>waving</i> seem to convey it just right. Couldn't have said it better myself (and I tried to above). {{User:ACupOfCoffee/sig}} 18:24, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

I really think you guys are overanalyzing this.  The joke was that you can't see either Strong Bad or Pom Pom's gestures - just the suggestion of them given the context.  The joke is continued when Strong Bad "flips off" Homestar, and Homestar just reflects it right back.  Given the lack of visible evidence, but also given Strong Bad's responses to both Pom Pom ("Pom Pom prefers the single deuce") and Homestar ("He just gave me the bird!"), I think it's safe to assume that the gesture (visible only to Strong Bad) was repeated both times. - [[User:KieferSkunk|KieferSkunk]] 19:47, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

:I've always perceived this as exactly how the current wording explains it. Strong Bad flips Homestar off, so Homestar responds by flipping Strong Bad off, and Strong Bad reacts as if he can see it. It doesn't need any more explanation than that. In fact, it's funny precisely because it's ambiguous. Let's not squeeze the poop out of the fly here. &mdash; {{User:JoeyDay/sig}} 20:04, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

::I'm willing to believe that Homestar doesn't actually understand the gesture - he's pretty dim.  Say you're from another country, and you've never seen or heard of the middle-finger gesture before.  Someone does it to you, and you might interpret it as a friendly gesture and do it right back to them.  Of course, the first person might then be offended by it.  Since Homestar generally tends to have memory lapses and is otherwise just a dim-witted fellow to begin with, I think it's perfectly reasonable to interpret this as him seeing the flip-off and just not understanding it. - [[User:KieferSkunk|KieferSkunk]] 20:10, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

::As my mother always said: It's the thought that counts. It doesn't metter if they actualy did it or not. {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 20:11, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

:::I think the joke here is the ambiguity.  Is Homestar wittily flashing the bird back, or does he not realize the back of String Bad's boxing glove is actually the finger, making his response a wave?  That's what puts the hummor in the situation.  I don't think we can take SB's reply as evidence to support either side.  {{User:Some HSR themed username/sig}} 20:14, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

::::Hence the original statement: Strong Bad reacts as though he can see (the gesture). - [[User:KieferSkunk|KieferSkunk]] 20:19, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

::::Proposed Revision: ''"When Strong Bad flips off Homestar, Homestar apparently returns the gesture, causing Strong Bad's feelings to be hurt."'' - [[User:KieferSkunk|KieferSkunk]] 20:21, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

:::::Meh, the feelings hurt part is not that relevant. The key is that Strong Bad says, "He just gave me the bird," something someone wouldn't be expected to say if they hadn't actually been flipped off. This whole page is based on trying to interpret something that doesn't make sense in the real world. Its purpose is to highlight the ambiguity where we find it. I think there's enough support for including the instance found in [[the bird]] to put it back on the page, but I suggest my own revision: ''Strong Bad flips Homestar off, and after Homestar replies "Right back atcha," Strong Bad exclaims, "He just gave me the bird!"'' &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 20:53, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

::::::Sounds good to me.  That's nice and unambiguous. - [[User:KieferSkunk|KieferSkunk]] 20:57, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

:::::::Yes, very good. It's got no speculation. - {{User:Kookykman/sig}}

That sounds re-ZON-able. (Or however you spell that.) [[User:Heimstern Läufer|Heimstern Läufer]] 23:03, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

== Pic? ==

Which do you think we should use for this article's picture? I'm for Homestar's "arms" from [[fingers]].-{{User:Kookykman/sig}}
:EDIT: Lunar Jesters uploaded[http://www.hrwiki.org/images/7/7f/Homestar%27s_Arms.PNG]. I like it.{{User:Kookykman/sig}}

== Page Title ==
Invisible Arms? I don't think that Homestar, Marzi & KOT have arms at all. I think it's some kind of force field or something. I mean, the fact about time capsule (Homestar holding three things at once) was already declined on STUFF because the majority of people here think it's not clear that Homestar has arms as such. Can we get a better name for this page? And perhaps remove that dubious fact? {{User:Homestar Coder/sig}} 23:06, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
:How about "Ambiguious Arms" or simply "Arms"? {{User:Kookykman/sig}}
::I don't like just "arms" because this page is actually about ''lack of'' arms. Say, how about "Lack of Arms" ;) {{User:Homestar Coder/sig}} 23:08, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
:::"Lack of Arms" has the same problem that "Invisible Arms" has. Namely, it assumes as fact one of the possible explanations for the situation. (I admit I chose "Invisible Arms" because that's the camp I'm in. Is there something (besides just "Arms") that is more neutral?) &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 23:10, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
::::Well, I did propose Ambiguous Arms earlier... - {{User:Kookykman/sig}}
:::::"Ambiguous Arms" is a step in the right direction, although something about it (maybe the alliteration?) doesn't sound quite right to me. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 23:14, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
::::::Yes, the alliteration kind of threw me off, too. *looks up synonyms* "ambiguous, cryptic, dark, darkling, deep, enigmatic (also enigmatical), equivocal, inscrutable, murky, mysterious, mystic, nebulous, occult." Not a good list. - {{User:Kookykman/sig}}
:::::::How about "Vague"? - [[User:KieferSkunk|KieferSkunk]] 23:19, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
:::::What about "Extremities"?  Homestar uses that term in the DVD commentary in [[time capsule]]. :) - [[User:KieferSkunk|KieferSkunk]] 23:18, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
::::::That has the same problem as just "Arms", though. :P - {{User:Kookykman/sig}}
:::::::Yeah, "Extremities" doesn't really address the adjective problem. How about "Missing or Invisible Arms"? "The Arm Situation"? "No Visible Arms"? "How the Crap Do They Pick Stuff Up"? &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 23:21, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
::::::::"Missing or Invisible Arms" does adress both sides of the problem. - {{User:Kookykman/sig}}
:::::::"Vague Extremities", then. :) - [[User:KieferSkunk|KieferSkunk]] 23:22, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
I say "Arms?"&mdash;with the question mark. &mdash;[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 23:23, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
:Looking at my most recent list, I like "No Visible Arms." It gets the point across, it's easy to remember, and it works for both completely missing arms and arms that are just invisible. Plus, it can be worked into a fun fact: "This is another reference to Homestar's having [[Lack of Visible Arms|no visible arms]]." &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 23:25, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
::I'm for "No Visible Arms". {{User:Kookykman/sig}}
:::Yeah, that's a good solution to all sides. &mdash;[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 23:30, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
::::I'm going to move it in about 5 minutes if there's no objections. {{User:Kookykman/sig}}
:::::Well, now let's give everyone a chance to weigh in. Just to be thorough, here are the choices so far:
:::::*This is another reference to Homestar's [[Lack of Visible Arms|missing or invisible arms]].
:::::*This is another reference to Homestar's [[Lack of Visible Arms|ambiguous arms]In].
:::::*This is another reference to the [[Lack of Visible Arms|arm situation]].
:::::*[[Lack of Visible Arms|How the crap do they pick stuff up?]] (just kidding).
:::::*This is another reference to Homestar's having [[Lack of Visible Arms|no visible arms]].
:::::&mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]]
::::::Alright, I'll wait. Though, looking at that list, it looks pretty obvious. :) - {{User:Kookykman/sig}}

::::::I'll go along with '''no visible arms'''. It seems the best of both worlds. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
:::::::It's a bit awkward, but I'd go with "No Visible Arms." How about "Lack of Visible Arms"? {{User:Homestar Coder/sig}} 23:57, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
::::::::The point of "no visible arms" is that it will be linked easily from fun facts pages (see the list above) - {{User:Kookykman/sig}}
:::::::::"This is another reference to Homestar's [[Lack of Visible Arms|lack of visible arms]]." It sounds better, see? {{User:Homestar Coder/sig}} 00:00, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
::::::::::You're right. "Lack of Visible Arms" does sound better. We're going to need a clear agreement before we move it. Any way we could have a quick STUFF-style vote, or should we just move it now? - {{User:Kookykman/sig}}

::::::::::I emphatically agree that a negative statement about visible arms is the way to go (it makes no statement about invisible or none), and I enthusiastically agree with H. Coder that "Homestar's lack" is preferable to "Homestar's having." That gerund gamme the gerbblies. (Not to be confused with the gerbilys.) &mdash;[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 00:26, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
:::::::::::I'd say '''lack of visible arms''' is good too. As long as it finally gets a name everyone can agree on, yeah? --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
::::::::::::Done. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 01:46, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

I think it should be called "[[You don't have arms]]", which is a line from [[Strong Bad is a Bad Guy]]. --{{User:Nerd42/sig}} 20:35, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== Homestar's perception ==
Note that just because clearly Strong Bad and Strong Mad are of the opinion he doesn't have arms doesn't prove it for sure; that's ''their'' opinion. Homestar seems to think he does. This could be Homestar being delusional, or one could argue that he ought to know best. Seems to me this is similar to the pants issue&mdash;he maintains he's wearing pants although others disagree. &mdash;[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 23:30, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

== Sarcasm? ==

When Strong Bad notes that Marzipan has "really nice hands" in the Yellow Dello commentary, I think it's possible that he was being sarcastic.  His tone (notice his emphasis on the word "hands"), combined with the fact that he seems to have a pretty good handle on just who has arms in Free Country U.S.A, indicates that he may have been making a joke.  Of course, that doesn't mean Homestar's agreement wasn't completely earnest... [[User:Rocketlex|Rocketlex]] 00:13, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
:No, I'm pretty sure it was TBC who were making the joke. It's a sort of dramatic irony- the audience knows that Marzipan has no arms, but for the moment the characters don't seem to. It wouldn't be funny if Strong Bad was referring to some invisible hands that were "really nice".[[User:Trelawney|Trelawney]] 23:42, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

== Another character with no visible arms ==

[[The Wheelchair]] is seen lifting the lid to his pot of burled holiday cabbage in [[Decemberween Sweet Cuppin' Cakes]].  Any significance? - [[User:KieferSkunk|KieferSkunk]] 21:51, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
:Sure, add it on. He has definitely got no arms. - {{User:Kookykman/sig}}
::Done.  Added a note that he actually DOES have visible arms, but they don't move.  (You can see the arms, but they obviously aren't designed to pick things up. :)) - [[User:KieferSkunk|KieferSkunk]] 22:18, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
:::Good call on adding the wheelchair.  But I have to disagree, he does not have arms. {{User:Invisible_Robot_Fish/sig}} 22:57, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
::::Uh, he means the wheels. {{User:Rogue Leader/sig}} 23:02, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
:::::I meant the wheels?  Actually, I ''was'' talking about the arms (the parts that you'd rest your arms on if you were sitting in a wheelchair.  I had forgotten that The Wheelchair's arms (in this case) serve as his mouth. - [[User:KieferSkunk|KieferSkunk]] 23:05, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
::::::Nevermind.  I didn't do any fact checking.  I am probably just going crazy...again. {{User:Rogue Leader/sig}} 23:28, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
:::::::Like Kieferskunk said, the arms of the wheelchair (small w) are actually part of his mouth when he speaks. The arms of the Wheelchair (big w) are non-existent/invisible. The ''object'' has arms like any other wheelchair, but they're not the same as the arms of the ''character'' Wheelchair. And because the object's arms are part of the character's mouth, you gotta say that the character is a good example of an armless/invisible armed character. - [[User:Tbone762|Tbone762]] 13:34, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

== Not quite so visible ==

Be it in another page or this page, [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=Fall_Float_Parade&diff=206146&oldid=206084 this] might be a good idea! --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 04:51, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
:Hey, we added the bit about Strong Bad "flicking" Strong Sad's "ears" to the Type-With-Boxing-Gloves page... I see nothing wrong with this. And the coach must have some sort of mouth, as we've seen him blow a whistle AND eat... But it might just be an invisible one. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]

== No telekinetic abilities. Just arms. ==

This is my opinion on it, taken from the Homestar talk page:

If you want something close to proof, look at [[the bird]]. But really, you're just analyzing it too hard. Look at his eyes on the picture in the upper left. They're clearly on the front of his head, with him facing diagonally. Notice that you can see the underside of the hat? Notice the mouth is seen from a diagonal angle? It's like an Egyptian painting. Yes, the puppet has the eyes on the side, but can't you tell that's just to make it work in real life? It's a cartoon, it's like Egyptian paintings, it doesn't have to be exactly like that in real life. There is no real life, in fact, so reality is simply what the creators intended. How can he flip Strong Bad the bird with telepathic abilities? It's like Pom-Pom's voice, they can understand it but we can't. The arms exist but we can't see them. His eyes are just eyes. </rant> [[User:Uh...Cwapface|Uh...Cwapface]] 03:44, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Ummm..I totally forgot what I wrote on the other page so I'm just gonna wing it- It's just one of those many questions everyone has for TBC, but they have no answer for. Like "How come Marzipan has no legs" or "Why does Bubs' mouth not move when he talks or just barely does"? It's one of those things the world may never know.--[[User:Gir007|Gir007]] 00:53, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

* If [[Homestar Runner|Homestar]] had arms, there would be holes in his shirt/skirt for them to come out of. I think this decisively shows that he must be telekinetic.

*How does Strong Bad type with boxing gloves on? --{{User:Nerd42/sig}} 23:10, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

*To add to that (still anonymous diffrent poster) in the same E-mail Strong Bad slaps the scoisors out of Marzipan's hands, or the lack thereof.  This implys that people with arms can interact with those without, giving play to the "invisble arms" argument.

*Homestar can manipulate more than two items telekenetically, which he could not do if he had invisible arms. I would second the significance of the lack of holes in Homestar's "red skirt", and I would also say that from watching Homestar (and the others) manipulate objects, it just looks more like they are levitating them than using invisible appendages. This no-armed whitey's powers of levitation may explain the hilarious blinking about of [[long pants]]: when upset so badly, his psychic powers blink him about. None of the references to the characters' hands or arms would be ironic or funny if we the audience were not supposed to believe that they had none. In the words of Strong Mad, "You don't have aaa-" [[User:Trelawney|Trelawney]] 23:51, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

I think that the Brothers Chaps may have finally answered the arms vs. telekinesis question with the recent Strong Bad E-mail lady fan.  Since Homestar's workout clothes include a leotard/onesie thing, the shoulder straps would fall if he didn't have *something* holding them up.  --[[User:Zhaleskra|Zhaleskra]]

:This type of logic doesn't hold up. If you allow "His straps don't fall, so he must have arms", then you also have to admit that the following deductions are true: "He can carry stuff, so he must have arms" and "You can't see any arms, so he can't have arms". They can't all be true at the same time.{{User:Loafing/sig}} 22:02, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

::I'm sorry you feel that way and I feel your analysis suffers from false causality.  You set up a straw man only so you could knock it down.  --[[User:Zhaleskra|Zhaleskra]]

:::If Marzipan has no arms how did her slap leave a handprint on Homestar? [[User:Bad Bad Guy|Bad Bad Guy]] 02:59, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Maybe it's a cartoon and you probably shouldn't worry about it. [[User:70.44.146.95|70.44.146.95]] 02:57, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
:That's the most smartest thing I've heard all day. {{User:The Chort/sig}} 15:34, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

== They're not the only ones... ==

I happen to know, and I would really appreciate if no one asked me why I know, that the characters from [[Wikipedia:VeggieTales|VeggieTales]] also don't have arms, but can pick stuff up. Who came first, anyways?--[[User:Jnelson09|Jnelson09]] 23:41, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
:VeggieTales came first. [[User:PurpleKoopa|PurpleKoopa]] 21:58, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
::There's nothing wrong with liking VeggieTales, Jnelson09. They rock. One of my favorite jokes is in the one about Jericho where someone is giving a speech and everyone applauds. One of the characters leans to another and says, "''How'' are we clapping??" Good stuff. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 23:57, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
:::It's not that I ''like'' VeggieTales (honestly, I think they're weird, no offense), it's just that I saw it a few times, and the first time I saw Homestar in [[Experimental Film]], it just reminded me of that.--[[User:Jnelson09|Jnelson09]] 23:14, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
::::I like VeggieTales! :) The Newgrounds Clock Crew are another flash cartoon series with characters who don't have arms but still pick stuff up. It's not an original concept at all. --{{User:Nerd42/sig}} 20:37, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I like to think of VeggieTales as "Homestar with morals" (which means I like it) since in addition to the lack of visible arms, neither of them talk down to audiences, and both shows go for sublte humor, obscure references, and breaking the fourth wall.  I just realized quite a few VeggieTale videos also involve fan mail, but I don't know if anyone really writes to them. [[User:Bad Bad Guy|Bad Bad Guy]] 01:05, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

== Something Worth Knowing ==

There's an article on Homestar's discussion page about the "no arms" mystery, but it discusses the reasoning behind the lack of arms. Anybody care to add to it?

== The Wheelchair ==

The Wheelchair does 'technically' have arms(handles). And even if not so, this isn't a character that should actually be designed to have arms. Shouldn't the title of that section be labeled differently, instead of just listing what abscure characters don't have arms? If your intention is that, then why not add "The Huuuuuudge" and other mentioned characters without libs? {{User:Homestramy20/sig}} 22:35, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
:I think the main point of including the Wheelchair is that it has been seen manipulating an object if it had arms--or, rather, invisible ones. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
::That's it exactly. The Wheelchair opened a pot of burled cabbage with invisible arms. This page isn't discussing the armrests, but actual manipulative arms we cannot see but have seen evidence of. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 22:44, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
::It might be worth having a closer look at some of the characters on this page: I'm not sure all of them have ever been seen moving objects as though they had invisible arms. It seems to me this page shouuld ''only'' feature those characters who have done so, not just any character with no visible arms. I'll check up on this when I have more time. {{User:Heimstern Läufer/sig}} 22:43, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
:::A list and a check if there is a verified example of proof there are arms that are not invisible, and not just no arms:

*{{done}}Homestar Runner
*{{done}}Marzipan
*{{done}}The King of Town
*{{done}}Homsar ([[Homestar Presents: Presents]] - using paintbrush as bell)
*{{done}}The Yodeling Man (he holds the horn somehow)
*{{done}}The Knight (bass drum mallets in [[Fall Float Parade]]
*{{done}}The Little Chef Guy
*{{todo}}The Prince of Town
*{{done}}The Goblin (unzips costume in [[Pumpkin Carve-nival]])
*{{todo}}The Sad Kids
*{{done}}The Homestar Runner (parsnip soup)
*{{done}}Old-Timey Marzipan
*{{done}}1-Up (puuding)
*{{done}}The Wheelchair (burled cabbage)
*{{todo}}Unnamed Girl
*{{todo}}Homeschool Winner
*{{todo}}The Unguraits

:::Add checks and confirmations as you find them. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 22:54, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
::::The chef guy seems to be holding a knife somehow, but he doesn't move it at all. The others are all unconfirmed, as far as I know. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
:::::Shouldn't we be able to assume that The Prince of Town has invisible arms, as he is the storybook counterpart to The King of Town? {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 23:06, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
::::::Wasn't Homsar holding a paintbrush in [[Homestar Presents: Presents]]? I think that would count... {{User:Saturn/sig}} 23:39, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
:::::::He was also holding a magic wand and dropped a bunch of confetti in [[Halloween Potion-ma-jig]]. Good call. :) {{User:KieferSkunk/sig}} 23:44, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
::::::'''(Edit Conflict)''' I'd also suggest that any character who looks human or vaguely human (The Sad Kids, Unnamed Girl, etc) should also be considered as having invisible arms if they're not actually shown.  If you choose to accept that, then this leave The Goblin, Homeschool Winner and the Unguraits.  And you can probably assume that Homsar and Homeschool Winner have the same or similar qualities to Homestar Runner, since they are similar creatures. {{User:KieferSkunk/sig}} 23:41, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
*Prince Of Town: hey, maybe if they aren't arms but are telekinesis, he hadn't yet developed the power at that point. Add to that the PoT is apocryphal, and I see no reason to assume he has arms.
*The Goblin, The Unguraits: possibly no arms. Probably, even, considering we don't know their physiology. By that logic we add Da Huuudge and other such nonsense.
*The Sad Kids, Unnamed Girl, Homeschool: while we might deduce by analogy that they must have arms, there remains no proof, and therefore we don't actually know for sure.
I think The Goblin and The Unguraits should be removed, and the others debated. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 00:08, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
:How about if we put them in a separate section?  "Debatable/Unproven Characters" or something like that? {{User:KieferSkunk/sig}} 03:45, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
::That sounds like a good idea. I could see removing the Goblin and the Unguraits (especially the Unguraits), but I think there's enough to assume that the prince, the kids, the girl, and Homeschool meet the criteria for this page, even without explicit proof. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 05:01, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
:::If [[:Image:goblin arms fangs.PNG|The Goblin was gonna have arms]], that means he doesn't have now. I say confirmed. {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 07:19, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
::::I don't see how that picture of the Goblin confirms that he has no arms at all. If anything, it confirms for me that he has invisible arms. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 15:40, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

I went ahead and moved all the questionables to a new subsection: "Debatable Characters".  Is that good enough? {{User:KieferSkunk/sig}} 19:09, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

If the Goblin doesn't have invisible arms or telekenesis, how does he properly disguise himself as Strong Bad in [[Pumpkin Carve-nival]]? --{{User:Jay/sig}} 07:43, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

:The same way [[Homsar]] can hang upside down and still keep his hat on. {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 07:56, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
::I don't understand what you mean. The Strong Bad costume moved its arms and opened its own zipper, so the Goblin had to have been manipulating it somehow... --{{User:Jay/sig}} 07:59, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
:::How about this theory: It's just is. Trying to found out how he did that is like trying to find out how Strong Bad types with boxing gloves on. They just do. {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 08:24, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
::::Then that makes this entire debate (and article) moot. How does Homestar pick stuff up? He just does. --{{User:Jay/sig}} 08:25, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
:::::Jay's point on The Goblin is valid, he should be moved out of Debatable Characters. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 16:19, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
::::::Updated the item upstairs, too.  The Goblin is confirmed. {{User:KieferSkunk/sig}} 01:14, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

:(Preserved from top of page, by Anonymous Contributor)
:'''Hey Wait a moment...'''
:Didn't the goblin unzip that costume?

== Invisible Hands Only theorem ==

I consider [[Strong Bad is a Bad Guy]] canon, so Homestar (and presumably the rest of the cast) really doesn't have arms, invisible or otherwise. However, Marzipan clearly have hands, so this is how I think things work:

Each armless character has two invisible hands, which are manipulated psychokinetically. These hands are the only things that can be so manipulated. [[User:Meneth|Meneth]] 06:46, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Only, Homestar has been seen manipulating at least three things before.  In [[time capsule]], for example, he was seen holding the gross old wig, the box it came in, and the lid to the box all at once.  - [[User: Clever Ben|Clever Ben]]

Homestar definately just has hands, no arms. Anyone notice that almost none of Homestar's shirts have any sleeves for an "arm" to go through? - [[User: ThomasO|ThomasO]]

:I think that's part of the joke. {{User:KieferSkunk/sig}} 00:37, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

::Either that or his deodorant leaves stains the exact color of his s(h/k)irts.  --[[User:Zhaleskra|Zhaleskra]]

== Flat Face Guy ==

Just for the records: Strong Bad could still have a nose, even if his face is flat (or flattened by the mask). We won't know if he really has a nose or not until he takes his mask off (or, in the words of one of my favourite comedians, "Mask? What mask?"). Anyway, most other characters don't have noses, so I'm happy with how it's currently phrased.{{User:Loafing/sig}} 03:10, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
:TBC have stated that they think the mask ''is'' his face. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 03:26, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[some kinda robot|Example]]--{{User:H*bad/sig}} 03:32, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
::OK, this: [[UMFM Interview - 20 May 2003|"It’s not like he’s actually got a face under that mask, that’s basically his head."]] convinced me. But now I'm scared ;-) {{User:Loafing/sig}} 04:46, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

== Strong Bad's fingers ==

While it was mentioned above that the "wrestling mask" seems to be Strong Bad's face, what about the fact that the "boxing gloves" are his hands? Does anybody else think there should be a section on this page for gags about Strong Bad having no fingers, or might that be better as a subsection of [[How Do You Type With Boxing Gloves On?]] It seems like these are closely related topics, although certainly the boxing gloves thing needs its own page, as it is a much more major phenomenon overall.

==Wagon Fulla Pancakes==

It doesn't count because it's more of a prop. [[User:Retromaniac|Retromaniac]] 22:43, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
:I replaced it in the article because [[Wagon Fulla Pancakes|it's treated as a character]].  Yep, it's strange. :) {{User:Trey56/sig}} 22:55, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
::Has it ever been shown using anything? If not, it should be moved to the other gallery. [[User:Retromaniac|Retromaniac]] 15:55, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
:::No, I don't think it has. The wine glass was wedged between pancakes, and it never lifted the weight, just had the handle fall on it. It hasn't manipulated anything. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
::::Well, it somehow beat Homestar... --{{User:Jay/sig}} 18:40, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
:::::In [[montage]], Wagon is seen carrying a briefcase, it hovers beside the wagon (closer to the screen). - [[User:Quolnok|Quolnok]] 02:16, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
::::::You're absolutely right &mdash; good find. {{User:Trey56/sig}} 02:36, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
:::::::Coincidentally, I noted it on the [http://hrwiki.org/index.php?title=Lack_of_Visible_Arms&diff=357831&oldid=357143 edit history] when I first put Wagon on the list. - [[User:Quolnok|Quolnok]] 15:06, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

== Coach Z's mouth ==

Doesn't Coach Z blow a whistle twice in A Jorb Well Done despite having no visible mouth? [[User:Jimmy91|Jimmy91]] 19:18, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
:Yup. His cheeks even puff up. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]

::So shouldn't it be added? [[User:Jimmy91|Jimmy91]] 17:23, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== sketchy  ==

I see the pic of an earlier sketbook drawing where homestar has arms and now this week's sketch has an arm reference.  Should this appear on the artice? {{User:Invisible_Robot_Fish/sig}} 16:12, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

== Made from the best suff ==

What about Marshie?  Does he qualify.  I can't remember him manipulating anything and marshmallow don't have arms but since that wagon is here and the geddup noise, I thought I'd ask. {{User:Invisible_Robot_Fish/sig}} 19:25, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
:Marshie waves a cane around in the email [[retirement]] when he says "I'm a song and dance man!". I'm thinking that he qualifies. {{User:NotWyoming/sig}} 02:56, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
::Good catch! You should add it to the article :-){{User:Loafing/sig}} 03:11, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
:::Okay, I'll get on that! {{User:NotWyoming/sig}} 03:14, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

== Slapping headbutt ==

Maybe it should be noten in the oddities that marzipan APPAERS to headbutt homestar, but heaves an hand-shaped mark.
:Already mentioned. Well, except the headbutting part. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]

== Strong Bad With Telekinesis? ==

1: [[How Do You Type With Boxing Gloves On?]]

2: How could he have "dinged" people while dressed up as Homestar in [[Pumpkin Carve-nival]]???
{{unsigned|Timic83|11:29, 31 October 2006}}
:You're very right. I think I'll add it under oddities if someone hasn't already added it. {{User:Salty/sig}} 15:52, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

!- Have you ever noticed that in [[looking old]], the cards appear without Strong Bad having to move them?

== Thank You to whoever wrote this ==

Armless Invaders — Homestar is the titular "armless invader"

The titular part made me laugh

:It was Homestar Coder who [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=Lack_of_Visible_Arms&diff=prev&oldid=177551 originally added] the ref, but it was The Mu who [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=Lack_of_Visible_Arms&diff=prev&oldid=360407 introduced the word "titular"]. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]

== Images showing lack of arms ==

I think it would be helpful for the gallery in [[Lack of Visible Arms#Characters With No Visible Arms]] to have images which actually show the characters doing things that would normally require arms.  If someone agrees, I'ma go get a few and put 'em in the gallery. {{User:Trey56/sig}} 18:41, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

:I say go for it. {{User:Invisible_Robot_Fish/sig}} 19:10, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

::Alright, done. {{User:Trey56/sig}} 20:13, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

:::When can I expect a proper pic of Homestar's cousin to be up? [[User:Bad Bad Guy|Bad Bad Guy]] 18:43, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

== Undeniable proof ==

I talked with the Bros. Chaps IRL, and they said his arms were invisible. Stop saying they don't have arms and they can't do stuff.
:Hi anony.  Can you provide undeniable proof of your conversation with TBC? {{User:KieferSkunk/sig}} 01:41, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

== Removal of [[ghosts]] reference in "Ears" section ==

Just a quick note to explain why I removed [[ghosts]] from the list of references to "invisible ears" in the "Other Apparently Invisible Body Parts" section: In this email, Strong Bad is wearing a mask that has fake ears.  This is actually unremarkable in this case, because even if he had normally visible ears, the fake ears would cover them and render them invisible anyway. {{User:KieferSkunk/sig}} 19:37, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

== Possible location of SB's nose ==

You don't suppose that the pointy part of the gray piece of Strong Bad's face is his nose, do you? I mean if you looked at that [[Strong Bad is in Jail Cartoon|jail cartoon]], where he puts a mask over his face you can see where his nose would be. And in [[Sbemail 169 Deleted Scene]], his nose is right where the pointy part of the gray piece would be.
Whaddya think?

== Storybook Characters ==

If The Prince of Town is a Debatable Character despite the fact he is simply the storybook version of the KOT, who is a Character With No Visible Arms, then Duckshirt Homestar and Storybook Marzipan are debatable as well.  Should I add them or delete the POT? [[User:Bad Bad Guy|Bad Bad Guy]] 02:20, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
:For a few months I've been leaning towards deleting the POT. [[User:Bad Bad Guy|Bad Bad Guy]] 02:34, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
::Fine, then.  He's gone.  And Modestly Hot Homsar as well. [[User:Bad Bad Guy|Bad Bad Guy]] 18:22, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

== Invisible Arm Proof ==
Homestar is clearly using an invisible arm when he drinks his Mountain Dew in [[DNA Evidence]]. What does this mean? O.O - {{User:Joshua/sig}} 01:49, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
:It means TBC are sick of people thinking Homestar and others have telekinesis. [[User:Bad Bad Guy|Bad Bad Guy]] 16:32, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
::[[In Search of the Yello Dello]] proved Marzipan has hands, [[Lappynapped!|Missing Lappy]] proved the KOT has fingers, and now this DNA toon proves Homestar has arms.  The only major character left is Homsar, but if he says something about his hands we won't be able to take it seriously. [[User:Bad Bad Guy|Bad Bad Guy]] 22:35, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
:::If Homestar has arms then why does he not have sleeves or shoulders? How can he manipulate more than 2 objects at one time? And why does he refer to the Homestarmy as "the no-armed forces" in E-mail [[more armies]]? [[Anonymous Contributor]]

How does [[Lappynapped!|Missing Lappy]] prove the KOT has fingers?, all he says is furious fingers!  if he has telekinetic abilites he can manipulate a guitar pick.
:Well, [[Ever and More!]] proves he has hands. [[User:Bad Bad Guy|Bad Bad Guy]] 15:16, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
::Can't we just assume everyone has invisible hands as well as telekinesis? That's a good enough explanation for me. {{User:The Chort/sig}} 15:30, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

== Marzipan's Legs ==

Do they deserve their own section, or can it be assumed her dress is hiding them? [[User:Bad Bad Guy|Bad Bad Guy]] 02:27, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
:I think it deserves a section. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 23:45, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
::Does the section look done to you? [[User:Bad Bad Guy|Bad Bad Guy]] 22:19, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

== Teeth? ==

First, with such a diverse array of missing body parts being covered here, the current title is insufficient. Who would look to a "lack of visible arms" article to find notes on toons mentioning where characters claim to have teeth? And then, I find the notion of "invisible teeth" highly suspect at that. Many people don't show their teeth, and cartoon characters often don't reveal teeth unless it's necessary to the story. Thus, when Strong Sad brushes his teeth, is it really at all notable? Might he indeed have teeth he just never smiles wide enough to reveal? I think the scope of the page must be revisited. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 02:46, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
:Strong Bad does [[replacement|seem to think]] that Strong Sad doesn't have any teeth. Otherwise I agree with you. {{User:Shwoo/sig}} 02:57, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
::While you out-trivia'ed me, and that is totally kick-butt awesome, I do hold to my point. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 03:04, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
:::I'm gonna delete the part about Marzipan's teeth, since there has never been anything that said she didn't have teeth.  Should "Other Apparently Invisible Body Parts" be split into a separate article? [[User:Bad Bad Guy|Bad Bad Guy]] 22:11, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
::::If we split them, we don't have to rename this page.  Otherwise, we ''can'' move it to [[Apparently Invisible Body Parts]]. [[User:Bad Bad Guy|Bad Bad Guy]] 23:48, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
:That is a great idea. {{User:SantanaHomerunner/sig}}
::It's great to split the articles or to move this one? [[User:Bad Bad Guy|Bad Bad Guy]] 00:31, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
Someone please judge the job I did cleaning up Teeth by removing the examples that weren't contradicted (Marzipan's smile, Strong Bad's "I feel like I need to brush my teeth").  Also, we still haven't decided whether we should rename this article or move the "Other Apparently Visible Body Parts" section to its own page. [[User:Bad Bad Guy|Bad Bad Guy]] 16:06, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

== Where should the sad kids go? ==

[[Image:Thesadkidsmalloween.png|100px]]<br/> This picture was offered as proof that The Sad Kids had no visible arms.  I undid it because I believed those were shoulder bags, but I am willing to know what the others believe. [[User:Bad Bad Guy|Bad Bad Guy]] 23:45, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

== The Poopsmith also doesn't seem to have visible arms ==

Otherwise you'd be able to see his shoulders above the edge of his gauntlets.