Editing User talk:DorianGray/Analysis of Homsar's Speech Patterns

{{deletedtalk}}
Nice project: I don't want to add anything you don't like, but here is my thoughts:
*"AaAaAaAaAaAaA!!! I'm saving the best for last!" - One scorpion goes into his mouth and I guess he likes to eat them.
*"I'm the ghost of Christmas past." - He is dressed as '''Ghost''' Dog, and mixing with another holiday.
*"And also with you." - He is insulted and tells Homestar that ''he'' doesn't get a ding in reply.
*"I do what I'm told..." - as you wrote: Strong Bad had just '''told''' him to get outta his house.
I don't have much time today to go over the transcripts you didn't add, so this is it for now. {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 08:09, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

== I've brought my best foot flowered ==
I think "I've brought my best foot flowered" could make sense if he meant to say "I'm putting my best foot ''forward''", i.e., he's trying to make a good impression with his character video. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 23:49, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
:That's possible. {{User:KieferSkunk/sig}} 06:48, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:Makes lots of sense to me. [[User:Scalawag|Scalawag]] 21:28, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

== Something I'm missing? ==

This article seems unnecessary, very POV, and over-analytical, even for us. I wouldn't be sad to see it go, but, for the time being, I'm not putting a tbd notice on it. --{{User:Jay/sig}} 20:05, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
:It was created to directly refute information contained both here and at Wikipedia. It furthers the project because it systematically analyzes a central trait of a central character. It's in the main namespace because it should belong to everyone (yes, works in progress on user subpages can technically be edited by anyone, but it's just not the same); that way, it can be improved upon and maintained by the whole community. It only seems POV because it seeks to draw conclusions, but the process by which it reaches those conclusions attempts to be objective. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 20:37, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
::We have an NPOV policy now? {{User:ACupOfCoffee/sig}} 21:25, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
:::I don't know whether it's ever been written as such on any policy pages, but it seems like a knowledge base should be as unbiased as possible. Occasionally "NPOV" can be seen in edit summaries as reasons for changing or removing something. As for the article, I think certain phrases could be reworded to be more straightforward and less of an opinion. I'll work on that a little now. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 21:39, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
:This article can go to really speculative levels, with all those interpatations. How do we know that The Brothers Chaps meant all that? {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 21:51, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
::I disagree. I'm not saying there's no speculation; I'm just saying that it's based on observation and reason. We allow a certain amount of speculation in fun facts and articles as long as it's relevant and reasonable and if the article would suffer if we left it out. This research page does have a bit more latitude, but that's understandable given its scope. Although it does give an interpretation at the bottom (which, like everything else, can be edited according to consensus), by and large it just presents the facts. No one claims to be able to read TBC's minds, but as long as we don't invent wild, irrelevant theories, then we're good. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 22:24, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

:::My point in doing this analysis was, as It's dot com mentioned, to objectively observe what Homsar is saying and relate it to the scene in which he said it.  In many cases, you can clearly see the connection between his statement and what's going on, and in the cases where that connection ISN'T clear (or there doesn't appear to be one at all), interpretation is limited mainly to "There doesn't appear to be a connection, but this sentence is syntactically valid/correct on its own", etc.  I removed as much POV stuff from the article as I could when I moved it to the main namespace. {{User:KieferSkunk/sig}} 23:04, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

: I'm taking another look at it, and... I want to say that maybe I feel stronger than before that this page is ridiculous. Half of Homsar's sentences have descriptions that say "This could make sense," frequently without describing how or by reaching for related words and twisting it a bit. Well, yeah... they could. So? They also very easily could be random nonsense. Por ejample:
::''"Nowowowow, this is the thrill of a lifetime."''
::''The other characters all said some variation of "Happy T!", but Homsar's line could still be construed to make some sense.''
:That this says that he could make some sense makes no sense, at least to me. Could you at least explain it a little? Is it because he's "thrilled" to be part of the Happy T stuff? Because he says three words that start with the letter "T"? Perhaps it's not a word salad because it would make sense in a totally different context, but in this context, it's meaningless as far as I can easily see. This page is trying to make insanity seem sane, to feign order in chaos, and to hear dialogue in ramblings. I don't believe it has any place in this Wiki. --{{User:Jay/sig}} 19:49, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
::Even if this ''is'' overanalytical, we can also argue that the entire wiki is pointless because it's all to analyze an internet cartoon.  I bet TBC didn't even imagine that it would go this far.  Not to say that I'm against this site, I find it endlessly amusing. &mdash;'''xo''' [[User:Scalawag|Scalawag]]

== It's time for tasteball ==

Homestar responds as though he's just informing them that they have to go do something right then. Seems pretty non-random to me. {{User:ACupOfCoffee/sig}} 21:34, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
:Excellent point. I'm going to update the article. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 22:25, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
::It seems more to me that it's general Homsar's randomness, but Homestar's too obtuse to notice and thinks Homsar's serious... which would be in character for both of them... {{User:Phlip/sig}} 16:35, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

This really has nothing to do with this, but because of that line, I now call dodgeball "tasteball". [[User:DrPepper42|DrPepper42]] 01:50, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Really? Because I have Been calling skeeball "tasteball". [[PartyBrd20X6]]

== Butterfly effect ==

What I'm about to say could easily be said on a lot of pages (and I don't intend it to be a forum-style topic), but it seems particularly appropriate here, given the amount of time and energy that have gone into the character of Homsar, both on TBC's part to create him, make him entertaining, and make merchandise about him, and on our part to enjoy it all and analyze obscure patterns in minute detail. What if Vinnie had been a better proof-reader? The world would be a vastly different place. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 00:02, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
:Wow... Really makes you think, eh? I never thought I'd be glad for misspellings... --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
::True, though if he didn't come about, Homestar would probably just be alot weirder to compensate, or something. I'm sure it would probably still be a pretty similar site. {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 00:18, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
:::It would be weird. I mean, there would be no [[interview]], [[Strong Sad]] would be even more lonesome, and there would be no regular use for that "b-b-b-b-b-b-b" sound that Homsar makes while walking. I'm sure someone would have slipped up eventually, inadvertantly creating Hoesta or Ometar or  something. --[[User:Jnelson09|Jnelson09]] 00:42, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I would doubt that Vinnie's was the only email that misspelled Homestar's name; TBC probably picked his from a handful of emails containing mispellings, like "Homstar", "Hometar", etc. (this is somewhat speculative, though) {{User:Trey56/sig}} 20:40, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I still think his foil ought to be Stong Bad

== Strong Sad's Blog And An Email ==

What about in Strong Sad's Blog where Strong Sad writes that one day when he was talking to Homsar, Homsar kept saying, "When can we start the Jeffersons?"  In the blog it's also mentioned that at a party Homsar told Strong Sad to hug a tree.  While no quotes, it would be interesting to point out in summary that Homsar's language skills seem to let him organize a party.  And finally, Strong Sad in [[2 emails]] tells Strong Bad that Homsar called and said he was a million ladies tall. -[[User:WarthogDemon|WarthogDemon]] 07:02, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Cleanup ==

I propose we have another look at this article for the sake of improving it. Last time people were regularly discussing it, there were some serious concerns as to its merit. I find this article to be very useful, but like some who have raised objections above, I am concerned about some sections of it. Quite simply, I think sometimes this article tries too hard to make sense of Homsar's sentences. As an example, this explanation of the phrase "I'm a million ladies tall":
<blockquote>
Not really a word salad as Homsar's statement could be interpreted as, "I'm as tall as any of those ladies."
</blockquote>
seems to me to be sretching it to the breaking point. I realise that part of this is because this study was originally made in order to refute the notion that Homsar speaks in word salads, but now that this point has been effectively made, I think the article needs to be reworked to a more neutral perspective. I intend to start work on this soon, and would value any help and input anyone would like to give. {{User:Heimstern Läufer/sig}} 03:41, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
:OK, finally trying to do this. So, I made that last edit in the hopes of preserving the original analysis while changing the tone a bit so it doesn't sound as much like it's fishing for sense in Homsar's statements but rather acknowledges both what sense there is and that it still doesn't really fit the context. {{User:Heimstern Läufer/sig}} 23:59, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

==I'll pay you tuesday==
This is a rephrasing of a quote from J. Wellington Wimpy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Wellington_Wimpy)
"I'd gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today"
So this puts Homsars quote into even more context.
--[[User:Gerkuman|Gerkuman]] 12:01, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
:We've always noted this quote as a Real World Reference, so I don't unstand the point that you are making. {{User:Invisible_Robot_Fish/sig}} 12:44, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
:: <s>That it's not mentioned on THIS page. The page implies that the comment was only slightly in context.</s> Oops, big mistake. Sorry Guys. --[[User:Gerkuman|Gerkuman]] 13:08, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

==Dinner Party==

Couldn't we also say that it's possible Strong Bad tricked our strange friend, by saying there was a dinner party, but it was just a "cliffhanger?" [[User: Dusk|Dusk]]
:No, that would be conjecture since noting backs that up. -[[User:WarthogDemon|WarthogDemon]] 00:40, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

==Thripshaw's Disease?==
Homsar's speech patterns seem to me to be inspired by a fictional disease: Thripshaw's Disease, from a Monty Python sketch. "Well as I say, you'd just be talking and out'll pudenda the wrong word and ashtray's your uncle. So I'm really strawberry about it." It's not identical, but it did seem very similar to me. -- [[User:Cronocke|Cronocke]] 10:07, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

== Accurate? ==
Is this article actually accurate? Some of these patterns are just what users believe in their opinion, and are not really facts, which means users might disagree with some of the descriptions in this, and may break out into an edit war. Is there any evidence on these 
speech patterns? --{{User:AAA!/sig}} 10:20, 11 April 2007 (UTC)


==Homsar's Main Page ==
You don't have to include this, but it is an expansion on why Homsar may have chosen to say what he said on each button. (Note: some are pretty obvious)

Toons: "ToOoOoOons!" (This is just a Homsar-esque exageration of the actual word) 

Games: "James!" (Words beging with a hard "G" have ocasionally been pronounced with a soft "G", which sounds like a "J" on H*R. This is just contiuing that joke as "Games" with a soft "G" would sound like "James")

Characters: "Kelsey Grammer!" (No idea about this one)

Downloads: "Thank youuuuu." (He could be thanking you for downloading from H*R.)

Store: "Legitimate business." (Possibly stating that the store's "business" is "legitimate")

Email: "AaAaAaAaAaAaA!" (This is just Homsar, being Homsar. He is quite well known for suddenly going "Aaahaaa" so it makes sense he said it on his main page)

[[User:MJN SEIFER|MJN SEIFER]] 14:28, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

:"Legitimate business" is one case where it's really difficult to tell exactly what he said.  I keep hearing "Legitimate Beer-beer" or something similar to that, and apparently someone else hears "Legimitate Menu".  Anyone got anything for sure on this one? {{User:KieferSkunk/sig}} 18:01, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

There was a time when I too thought he said "Legitimate Beer-beer" and admitidly Strong Sad talking over the last sylible didn't help.  However I rechecked this very clearfuly. It is deffinetly "Legitimare Business". [[User:MJN SEIFER|MJN SEIFER]] 21:23, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

I THINK that it's starnge nobody noticed that the boat was going backwards, adn it was on dry land.  He might of said thank you as a reference to the sign that said wear a bikini!.[[User:Runstar Homer|Runstar Homer]] 22:26, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Kelsey Grammer is an Actor so Homsar might be saying that he plays a "Character" on T.V.--[[User:Stinkodeuce|Stinkodeuce]] 19:59, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

==These Easter Pants Are Way Too Tight==

When Homsar's most recent line (from DNA Evidence) was added, I think the explanation was really grasping at straws. Furthermore, the context (Strong Sad reveals secret by accident - Homsar speaks - suspenseful music) seems to suggest, at least to me, that Homsar "said" something that made sense to Strong Sad; perhaps he revealed that he wouldn't keep the secret in Homsaric. It wouldn't be the first time that Homsar said something that is nonsense to the audience but appears to have a clear meaning to the other characters. [[User:Almsfothepudgy|Almsfothepudgy]] 10:43, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

:I dunno, sounds like a threat to me... seems like Homsar thinks being a secret character is too restricting. That makes the most sense from what he said. Perhaps he will use his knowledge as a leverage against Strong Sad to gain main character status. Of course, this is a cartoon where nothing much has happened for... well 11 years now, other than artwork improvement. But its fun to pretend. --[[User:Sines|Sines]] 15:41, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

::That's the problem. It's ''so'' fun to pretend that the other users have built up a mountain of pure speculation over this small phrase. ¤ {{User:The Mu/sig}} 20:43, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

: To Almsfothepudgy: Wouldn't be the first time this page gasped at straws. 9_9 --{{User:Jay/sig}} 21:13, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

I think he means by "Easter Pants" Easter Eggs...as in secrets and "way to tight" as in unbearible, so "Keeping all these Secrets is Unbearable".{{User:Slipstream/sig}}

I really feel that this meant Homsar completely wasn't listening the entire time, and Strong Sad was giving him too much credit. IE: Homsar was too busy being bothered by imaginary "Easter Pants". Know what I mean? -- [[User:208.60.233.12|208.60.233.12]] 04:54, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

I think that Homsar meant "I think these Easter Eggs I'm in are getting way too short!" {{User:Haldo/sig}}

It's possible that Homsar's phrase was more a message from TBC.  Saying "even the easter eggs seem to need some sort of story" now.  [[User:Stribbs|Stribbs]] 07:51, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Cheese ==

For the [[Who Said What Now?]], couldn't it be a reference to 50 Cent? -[[User:WarthogDemon|WarthogDemon]] 19:28, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

== um ==

couldn't i put my best foot flowered be a mix up of i put my best foot forward? [[User:Foogs|Plain ol&#39; Foogs ya&#39;ll biscutheads]] 00:06, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
:Yes, and it's noted in the article. {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 00:11, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

== Kind of a stretch? ==
Some of these explanations are a bit of a stretch, aren't they? for example:
*"Sing a song of Pennzoil" Explanation: Possibly a Product Endorsement. Why would someone like Homsar do product endorsements?
*"Caramel corn for president, please." Explanation: Kernel/Colonel Corn joke. Why would someone like Homsar A: ever hear that joke, B: remember it long enough to tell it again, C: use it as praise for Strong Sad, and D: even understand the mechanics of a joke?
*"I'm a million ladies tall." Explanation: Either he's saying he's as tall as any of those ladies, or he has a million ladies with him. A big stretch, since homsar is not as tall as any of those ladies (He barely tops 3 feet tall) and would DEFINITELY not have a million ladies with him. He probably is relating the discussed topic (ladies) into his word salad.
The explanation for his character video also focuses on the "Best foot flowered" line and downplays the other completely nonsensical sentences, especially the "gravy train" line.

Other supporting evidence of word salads: Email [[suntan]]: his testimonial for the Ab-Abber 2000: He uses it to draw a calculator with the word SALAd on it.
Now, while some of his sentences aren't word salads, such as his first ever line and the "I do what I'm told" line, many of them are word salads. [[User:Jedibob5|Jedibob5]] 21:34, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

:I'm a little late to the party on this one, but having done a fair amount of research into the subject of Word Salad ([[Wikipedia:Psychophasia|psychophasia]]), here's my reply:

* "Pennzoil": It makes sense in the context of the cartoon (Fall Float Parade) - big-name Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Year's parades are chock full of product endorsements, whether seen in the parade or heard by a commentator.  I think this was just a fun way for TBC to poke fun at the product-endorsement shtick while also giving Homsar a reason to exist in the cartoon.

* "Caramel Corn": I believe the quote originally was "Colonel/Kernel Corn", not "Caramel".  (I may be wrong.)  And as explained, Colonel/Kernel Corn is a common joke.  Beyond that, it's pretty nonsensical, but it's grammatically correct and stands up on its own syntactically.

* "I'm a million ladies tall": Not grammatically correct, pretty nonsensical, but semi-related to the scene.  Also recall that this was Strong Sad quoting Homsar, not Homsar himself, thus it can't really even be counted properly in this analysis.  We didn't hear Homsar say it, so we'd have to take Strong Sad's word for it that that was what Homsar actually said.  (Homsar could have said "I'm as tall as a million ladies!" and SS might have just condensed it.)  I'd probably just remove that line entirely.

* "Captain of the Gravy Train": Again, nonsensical but grammatically correct, and it stands up on its own.  As noted in the analysis, Homsar's bio is pretty much complete randomness, so you can't really get much context from it at all.  But "I'm Homsar, the captain of the Gravy Train" seems like a pretty decent introduction, even if the content doesn't make much sense.

:The point in all of this is that Homsar is random and nonsensical, but he doesn't display the kind of symptoms that one would expect to see if he were actually suffering from psychophasia.  You can discern a meaning from his response, whereas with patients with psychophasia, you really can't most of the time.  And, as noted, if he has something specific to say to someone, he says it in a way that usually gets his point across. {{User:KieferSkunk/sig}} 23:33, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

I'd say this whole article is a stretch. I don't believe there's any meaning at all behind anything he says, & SBCG4AP episode 2 suggests outright that he's speaking perfect sence but without a tranlator, one will only hear jibberish.

I think the translations are, by and large, pretty interesting and fun, whether or not they reflect the original intent of the Bros. Chaps.  But, uh, why is, "You're a real state trooper" described as an odd way to say "thank you," after Homestar *spits* in the donation can.  I think it's more of an odd way to say, "You're a real jerk."  Of course, I... uh... hate cops... so... there you go.
:I always thought that line was based on "you're a real trooper", something parents say to their kids for being brave when they go to the doctor's or something. [[User:Hagurumon|Hagurumon]] 02:55, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

==Sense==

Well, let's look at all of them that have trouble:

*"Caramel corn for president, please." '''That''' is a word salad or random

*"I'm a million ladies tall." '''That''' is ''also'' a word salad.

*"I'm the Captain of the Gravy Train." That is yet ''also'' a word salad.

Case ''co''-''losed.'' {{User:KlingOnMyDreams/sig}} 19:21, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

More word salads:
*"Let's sing a song of penzoil.",
*"My cheese is 50 Cent.",
*"When can we start the Jeffersons?",
*"AaAaAaAaAaAaA!!! I'm saving the best for last.",
*"I'm the ghost of Christmas past.",
*"And also with you."
& "I do as I'm tooolld." Case closed. {{User:KlingOnMyDreams/sig}} 19:21, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Sorry,Person,Dreams,My,Whatever.All Of Those Make Perfect Sence,Plus It Not If It Makes Sence With The Scene,It's If It Is A Full Sentance,Plus,How Would I Do As I'm Told Not Make Sence!!!!And I Think The Part About The Cheese Might Be A Referance To 50 Cent {{unsigned|99.224.229.97|2:21, 16 February 2008 (UTC}}

: First, captain of the gravy train: Homsar is just giving himself a title. It could also mean that he has everything '''very easy''' for him, which could make sense. (he defies the laws of physics) Second, I do as i'm told: Strong Bad just '''told''' Homsar to get out of his house. Duh. Third, AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaam savin the best for last!: maybe he ''likes'' eating scorpions. I like eating some really weird stuff. [[User:DrPepper42|DrPepper42]] 12:50, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
::All those last 4 "salads" make perfect sense, and at least 2 of them are common quotes. [[User:Bad Bad Guy|Bad Bad Guy]] 20:07, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

== SBCG4AP Episode 2. ==

Well, that connon piece is deffinately going to effect this page, a complete overhaul perhaps? Maybe even an article deletion. Possibly a lot of deleting, rewriting, & even more rethinking.
:Or maybe we could just add a paragraph to the end of the article mentioning that he speaks his own language. {{User:The Chort/sig}} 16:43, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

hey, you forgot a quote.  from sbcg4ap episode 2.  strong badia the free.  

*ahem*

"my base boards are filled with chicken sticks"

put it in.  because i'm not syntax knowing enough to add it myself.  

{{User:Homsarstrongbad150/sig}} 23:41, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

I was thinking, after watching videos of the game on YouTube, that we really don't need to rethink this article. I would imagine that when Homsar got the Heavy Lourde dropped on him, he suffered some head injuries and could no longer communicate properly. I think he intends to speak normal English, but it all comes out mangled. When Strong Bad puts all the artifacts into the pylon, he can understand what Homsar is actually trying to say. - [[User:Tymime|Tymime]] 19:28, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Good point up there/\ but he could talk while in the hospital.................................


New "post". You know, I'm really surprised there was so little discussion on this. SBCG4AP Episode 2 really seems to throw this whole page and its content right out the window... none of what Homsar says in that game, "untranslated", matches, even in the slightest, with the most vivid of imaginations, what comes out after it's *translated*. Also, unlike all the other examples on this page, these aren't even *attempted* to be rationalized as-is; it just lists what it was a response to, and what it was "translated" as. Ok, yeah, so it's just one instance amidst many others, and there *are* a few instances in which he makes some slight bit of sense in context, but still, it almost comes across as TBC saying "Huh? Uh, no... there's no hidden meaning. We just have him say whatever random stuff we can think of at the moment." (which is, frankly, what I figure they do anyhow). Eh, I know this won't change anyone's mind about this page, but if you ask me, we tend to go *way* overboard on this Wiki trying to rationalize a character who seems to be the personification of randomness, and is much *funnier* if you don't try to analyze him. Just my two cents. -{{User:YK/sig}} 07:17, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
:I tend to agree with most of what you say. For a time, I thought this would make an OK article, but I no longer think so, and stopped thinking so even before SBdia the Free was released. It's an interesting thought exercise, and probably does make one interesting point: Homsar's speech has no clear rules (sometimes, such as "best foot flowered", it's a corruption of a relatively normal phrase; other times, such as "I do what I'm told", it actually makes reasonable sense; in most, particularly obviously in SBdia the Free, it's just a lot of nonsense). Still, this whole article seems to me to be more the stuff of essays than encyclopedia articles. {{User:Heimstern Läufer/sig}} 07:29, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
::Well, you all should know [[User:Jay#Things I don't agree with the pfargtling consensus about|my take on this article]] by now. Only reason I didn't bring up discussion on this Talk page was because I'd had discussions on the subject before, which didn't go my way, so I was waiting for someone else. My position remains unchanged (even if Homsar ''did'' say something relatively relevant in his last appearance, albeit not COMPLETELY coherent, it's neither the rule nor truly notable, in my eyes.) --{{User:Jay/sig}} 09:18, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
:::Having read the original discussion regarding this page, I have noticed several things:
:::#It was never actually put up for deletion.
:::#The original idea of objective analysis is good in theory, but practically, I'm just seeing this talk page covered with comments about how one analysis or another is a stretch.
:::#There is far more speculation and POV on this page than there is anywhere else.
:::It also seems clear to me that the attempt is usually to have Homsar say word salads, non-sequiturs, or other random, unintelligible phrases. Every so often, he does say a few things that are closer to sensical in context than usual, such as "That's a real popular song! Who wants to hear of it fifty times more?", which is probably the most sensical thing he's ever said aside from his first two appearances in which it's clear TBC had not yet decided to make him a random nutjob. It can be said that sometimes he says things that make enough sense to be interpreted. However, he doesn't make nearly as much sense as this page tries to give him credit for. For example: "I left my bacon at the tennis patch." currently has an explanation of "This sentence could possibly mean that he surrendered and left for important reasons." What?! Really? In what language does "leaving one's bacon" mean "surrender", and "at the tennis patch" mean "for important reasons"? Not in any language I speak, that's for sure... And around 95% of the explanations are like this. My point is, this page would make a great essay, but not so good as a comprehensive list of trying to explain every one of Homsar's lines rationally. This page tries to create the false impression that the bulk of his lines are intelligible in some way or another, while in reality, the overwhelming majority of his lines are simply random. {{User:DeFender1031/sig}} 19:56, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
::::Yeah, I think it's high time the serious merits of this page are discussed. Nearest I can figure from the old discussions, the point of it was originally to disprove the widely-believed notion that Homsar speaks in "word salads". I think it's safe to say that most of his lines *aren't*, and *are* gramatically *correct* (if often a bit oddly put together)... they just...tend not to mean anything in context for the most part. The real problem with this page is that it seemed to "evolve" in such a way that now it's just attempting to make perfect sense of a something that was *designed* *not* to make any. In addition to the example DeFender offered (which I agree is an *unbelievable* stretch), the needlessly long-winded "rationalization" of "These Easter pants are *way* too tight!", is another good one. Sure, I *suppose* it could mean any of the things listed... but why are *any* of them somehow more logical and likely than the much simpler concept: "TBC just had him say something weird and random"? Even for us, obsessive as we all are, this is too much. More, it doesn't fit the scope of the overall project; while not a hard-and-fast rule, per se, we tend to frown on speculation and personal opinion everywhere else. What makes this article exempt from that, barring a few people having cited it "their favorite page on the Wiki"? -{{User:YK/sig}} 20:53, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

== "Daaaahhhh, I'm the local Leroy!" ==

This quote could be in reference to the old "Leroy Jenkins" videos from World of Warcraft (IE. Homsar is in the group and, possibly, planning on running on ahead first.).
:As I've [[Talk:Strong Badia the Free#Leeroy Jenkins Reference?|stated before]], this is a big stretch (and the "possibly" makes it border even further on speculation). --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]] 05:03, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

== You bring the tip... ==

this could meen that when he forks over the suvenires (pencils, sticker, exet) he will listen

== More ideas ==

IM SAVIN THE BES FOR LAST= he is savng the mos apeeling scorpen for last
The gost of crismas thing is also a confsen of the to weens

== "I'm the local Leroy" ==

It seems odd that nobody thought of this: The quote was used in the game Strong Badia the Free, and so anyone who's playing it is likely a gamer. Nowadays, I think most gamers who use the internet would likely have herd of Leeroy Jenkins, that WoW celebrity? Because if he was comparing himself to the battle-ready barbarian Leeroy Jenkins, the quote would make perfect sense, because that character description fits perfectly. I think this should be mentioned in the article for sure. BTW, here's sme source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zll_jAKvarw
:I think this is too speculatory. There's just no good reason to assume this is anything but a random name, in typical Homsar style. (For that matter, I think most of what Homsar says is just random nonsense and that most of this article is rubbish.) {{User:Heimstern Läufer/sig}} 13:43, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

== I left my bacon at the tennis patch ==

{| border=1 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2 width="100%" style="border-collapse:collapse"
|-------------------------------------------------- bgcolor=#ffffff
| "I left my bacon at the tennis patch."
| [[Strong Badia the Free]] (Sept. 15, 2008)
| Homsar says this after being defeated by Homestar.
| This sentence could possibly mean that he surrendered and left for important reasons.
|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- valign=top
|}

This was reverted by [[User:DeFender1031|Defender1031]]; but I think it sounds valid. He asks, "what part of 'Bacon' or 'tennis patch' implies 'surrender' or 'important reasons?'"

Like I said, I believe this sounds perfectly valid--hence the word '''possibly'''. It just sounds like that's what it means, to me. I'm not sure why, though...

Thoughts? {{User:Religious Corn/sig}} 00:42, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
:I can't make a logical rebuttal to an argument that says "it just sounds valid even though the two sentences don't mean the same thing". This is indicative of the general problem that exists with this page, which we have been discussing up above. Homsar says something totally crazy, someone comes up with some metaphorical-esque interpretation, and everyone else looks at it and goes "oh, that makes sense". It reminds me of modern art. Throw a bunch of paint-filled balloons at a canvas, then tell everyone the picture represents "the chaos within" or some such, and people will buy it. Well I don't buy it, and i seriously think the concept of this page needs revisiting. {{User:DeFender1031/sig}} 04:49, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

== Let's take this in another direction ==

The discussions up above didn't really go anywhere, even though we seem to have a strong opposition to this page as it stands now. So it seems to me, the time has come to discuss its future. The arguments are that it has become a forum for taking every one of Homsar's lines and trying to rationalize it. True, many of his earlier phrases had some contextual sense, and occasionally in recent toons he says something that sort of fits, but overall, he tends to speak in word salads. Yes, I am contradicting the conclusions of this page. He does speak in word salads, and you can rationalize all you want and define "bacon" as "surrender" and "tennis patch" as "important reasons" from today till tomorrow, but it isn't going to change the fact that this little weirdo just doesn't make sense the vast majority of the time.

So, instead of continuing this farce, I propose that we make a page, from scratch, of times that what Homsar says makes sense in context. No rationalization, no forced definition, we take what he says at face value. What do you all think? {{User:DeFender1031/sig}} 05:03, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
: Oooh! Oooh! Reason! Yeah, I have hated this page from day 1, but I could easily get behind a [[Homsar Making Sense]] page. So long as we keep it limited to those instances where he actually does, and not rationalize his more random lines with "This could make sense if you look at it in this completely counterintuitive fashion!" --{{User:Jay/sig}} 05:18, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
::I'm not in favour of retaining this article as is, either. As it is, it just doesn't act like an encyclopedia article; it acts like a big collection of original ideas. An encyclopedia has the job of reporting facts, not establishing new thought on a matter.
::As for what to do, a couple of thoughts: First, I'd hate to see this page deleted completely, even with all its speculation, as it sometimes can be intellectually interesting speculation. As I also don't agree with its presence in the main namespace, I'd like to see this page preserved somewhere else, perhaps in the userspace like DorianGray's Senor Cardgage subpage or even in the project space.
::As for the idea of a Homsar Maketh Sense article, I'd like to see an example before I pass judgment. For now I'll waffle by saying the idea merits further investigation. {{User:Heimstern Läufer/sig}} 07:26, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
:::Some examples would include things like "I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for some candy today!", "I do what I'm told...", "I'm crying on the inside...", "That's a real popular song! Who wants to hear of it fifty times more?". I'd even hear the argument for including out-of-context references to in-context occurrences, such as his reference to punjab. {{User:DeFender1031/sig}} 07:41, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
::::And let's not forget that one segment of [[Strong Badia the Free]]. Those who played the game need no further explanation; I'll avoid spoilers for the rest. :) --{{User:Jay/sig}} 07:58, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
::::I see this page as a case that is close to what's going on in [[Strong Bad Smiling]]: A page was made with good intentions, spiraled out of control, and now we need to figure out how to separate the factual wheat from the speculative chaff. I really like DeFender's suggestion: When this page was created, Homsar said semi-understandable lines. But more recently, his sentences stopped making sense at all, and we were stuck with nothing to do but document it. Well, now we reached a stage where we can't rationalize it anymore. It's time to cut this article down, and redefine it's scope.
::::As for archival - I suggest moving this page in order to preserve it's history, and only then rewrite it. And maybe a link to the last old version of the page somewhere. {{User:Elcool/sig}} 08:02, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
:::::If this page is to be removed, I think there should be a more accessible place to archive it than a revision history.  How about moving it to the HRWiki space and putting it in the history category, or something.  As for the proposed replacement, I worry that "making sense" would also be somewhat subjective.  For example, does "Reggie, is that rhinocerous around?" make sense?  At face value, not so much, but Strong Bad interprets the context well enough, (or dare say I, "analyzes the speech pattern"). -[[Special:Contributions/132.183.138.33|132.183.138.33]] 17:18, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
::::::I agree. If we are going to create a page on Homsar making sense, I feel we should also create a section of the page where he doesn't make complete sense, but a logical sentence is able to be formed from his line.

Or maybe we could divide this page into four sections:

* '''Lines Making Perfect Sense'''
* '''Lines Making Some Sense'''
* '''Lines Making Sense By Themselves'''
* '''True Word Salads'''

{{User:Religious Corn/sig}} 03:13, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
:Religious Corn - I like you idea. It means that we can keep the current article, and just split the table and rearrange its contents. The first and last categories are clear cut, but the two middle ones are might cause arguments. Do you have any prime example for each category? {{User:Elcool/sig}} 05:19, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
::I'm going to have to speak out against this idea... but if anyone didn't see that coming, they haven't been paying attention to my comments on this page thus far. No, I do not like that idea. It's really just the same as the page we have now ''organized differently'', and every bit as open to obtuse illogical "translations" that really don't make any sense. --{{User:Jay/sig}} 05:33, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
:::I'm with Jay. This solution is just the problem reorganized. Mind you, I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to doing something like this if we move the current article to another namespace (which I continue to support doing), but not in the article space. {{User:Heimstern Läufer/sig}} 05:37, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
::::Yeah, I have to go with Jay. I can easily see this idea devolving into massive edit wars or pointlessly long talk page threads regarding "this line does so make sense!". Besides, if you go with [[Strong Badia the Free]], *everything* he says "makes sense", if just to *him*. As an aside, I now officially declare "Leaving my bacon" to be acceptable slang for surrender. At least on the HRWiki. Are you losing an argument? Maybe it's time to leave your bacon! (All right, all right. End joke.) -{{User:YK/sig}} 08:59, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
:As per Elcool's suggestion:

{| border=1 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2 width="100%" style="border-collapse:collapse"
|-------------------------------------------------- bgcolor=#eeeeee
! Type !! Quote !! Toon !! Context !! Comments or Possible Translation
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- valign=top
| '''Lines Making Perfect Sense'''
| "That's a real popular song! Who wants to hear of it fifty times more?"
| Email [[for kids]] (August 9, 2004)
| Homsar on his kids' show, ''[[Whaddaya Know, Haddi-Man?]]''
| No translation necessary.
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- valign=top
| '''Lines Making Some Sense in Context'''
| "YaAaAaAh, I'm the original ladies' man!"
| [[The House That Gave Sucky Treats]] (October 27, 2001)
| Homsar's line after being handed Shavin' Creem. 
| Homsar might be saying that he can appeal better to the ladies if he shaved.

''(This is my own interpretation. He is [[3 Times Halloween Funjob|open for interpretation]].)''
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- valign=top
| '''Lines Making Sens By Themselves'''
| "AAAaaaAAAaaa-I'm just in time for the murder mystery!"
| Email [[suntan]] (June 16, 2003)
| A "Celebrity(?) Testimonial" of Strong Bad's Ab-Abber 2000. Homsar had used it to draw a calculator with the word "SALAd" on his shirt.
| Homsar's line does not make sense in this scene, but the sentence itself is coherent.

''(a suggested addition)''

The SALAd drawn on Homsar's shirt may reference that this could be a word salad.
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- valign=top
| '''True Word Salads'''
| "Caramel corn for president, please."
| Email [[rampage]] (April 11, 2005)
| Homsar gives "praise" to Strong Sad at his Poetry Slam.
| As praise, this sentence makes little sense. On its own, it also doesn't make much sense, though it is fairly close to "Kernel/Colonel Corn", which is a common joke.
|}

{{User:Religious Corn/sig}} 23:25, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
:Somehow, that strikes me as... exactly the same thing. Moreover, everything is *still* open to interpretation; what may "make sense" to one person, may not to another. Hence the conflicts we're having. Somehow, I can't see this setup placating Jay, either. -{{User:YK/sig}} 03:20, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
::This is just a rearrangement of the same content. Reorganization is not a solution if the problem is with the content itself rather than the organization of the content. {{User:Heimstern Läufer/sig}} 23:48, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
:::The first, like, six entries in this discussion are largely my opinion, so I don't really have anything to add besides "let's get rid of this thing already ._.". --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]] 07:43, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
:::: I personally find this article very useful. It is interesting, in-depth, too long to merged and well researched. While some sentances that are entire word salads are explained by Wild Mass Guessings, I feel that the article as a whole is worthwhile and good the way it is. I'm not ready to leave my bacon on this yet.
:::: A solution: narrow our scope of "intelligible". If it makes sense in context, it is intelligeble. If it involves coherent nicknames, like That Rhinorsorus, it is intelligible. If we assume that being the local leeroy means being ready to fight, I say we hit ourselves with a brick. Therefore, I conclude that this page needs to '''narrow the scope of "sense-make"''', as that would make this the facts and only the facts.--[[User:Jellote|Jellote wuz here]] 00:57, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
::::: But to do that would either necessitate a name change or leave a lot of blank/generic "irrelevant" entries. Fortunately, I've already said that I'd be fine with a scaled-down-to-reasonable [[Homsar making sense]], which is basically what you're suggesting (correct me if I'm wrong). --{{User:Jay/sig}} 02:15, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
:::: Jellote and Jay, I like your ideas. They make sense to me. Maybe we could split this page up into Homsar Making Sense, using Jellote's idea, and then we could still leave this page and organize the rest of the entries according to how much they make sense. {{User:Religious Corn/sig}} 18:25, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
:::::No, you basically just suggested the same thing. Once again, how much sense his lines make is entirely debatable. What was suggested is not simply to reorganize the page based on "how much Homsar's lines make sense"; it's been noted already that some people think it "makes sense" that "leaving one's bacon in the tennis patch" means "surrendered and left for important reasons", despite having *no* connection to that concept whatsoever. No, the idea here is to get *rid* of all the baseless speculation, and simply narrow it down to the few times in which Homsar has made *complete* sense. As it stands, this page is entirely un-encyclopedic, and frankly, borders on fanstuff. It basically boils down to the fact that this page has only been allowed to exist as long as it has because Homsar is everyone's favorite character; he seems to get a surprising amount of leeway on this wiki, on the whole, I've noticed. I don't like this. He's weird, he's funny, he's awesome, but he's not the central focus of Homestar Runner, and I do not think he deserves the special treatment we've been giving him. -{{User:YK/sig}} 19:41, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

So, after all this discussion: here's what's come out of this: Consensus is decidedly against this article remaining as is. More than one person has spoken favourably of the idea of an article about Homsar making complete sense, though. Others have spoken of not wanting this article to completely die. And in fact, this article actually originated in the userspace, and a [[User:DorianGray/Analysis_of_Senor_Cardgage%27s_Speech_Patterns|strikingly similar page]] is still in userspace today drawing no real objections. It seems to me, therefore, that the proper solution for this article is to put it in the userspace as well. DorianGray has told me he's willing to host this page in his userspace, so I am moving it there. In light of the discussion, it would be appropriate to make the [[Homsar Making Sense]] page some have supported, but I'll leave that to others, since I'm not really sure how this page would go down. {{User:Heimstern Läufer/sig}} 09:27, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
:Finally not in the main namespace, and if it has to be in my userspace for that to happen, that's okay. =3 Thanks for moving it for me. And don't think I'm locking it or anything, <strike>ladies and gentlemen</strike> [[Flashforward|gentlemen and, like, two ladies]]. It's still totally open for anyone to edit it whenever you like. ''I'' sure won't be keeping it up-to-date very often. =3 --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]] 09:38, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

== Well, here is my opinion ==

On the one hand, I could see how it would make sense to add this to Homsar's Page. But I for one think its just a bit too long to be added to Homsar's Page. So, maybe we should keep it. {{User:Crab Attack1999/sig}} 02:41, 6 December 2009 (UTC)