Talk:games
From Homestar Runner Wiki
[edit] Rename
Should we rename to Games (disambiguation)? By 45.78.217.4
- No. The reason this exists is because there are two different files on the site which use the name "games". This used to be a filename redirect, but it made more sense as a disambig. The Games page itself has all the information that would be necessary anyway, so "Games (disambiguation)" would be superfluous. Basically, this page only exists because of filenames. — Defender1031*Talk 15:23, 4 November 2015 (UTC)
[edit] Handheld Games Menu
In response to recent edits to this page:
- Per this undo edit all my previous edits were undone with the edit summary '(undid revision 833857; ...except that the HGM's filename isn't/wasn't "games"'.
- At first this explanation did not make sense to me until I came to this talk page to create a new discussion. Above @Defender1031 explained that this used to be a filename redirect to the games menu. But it has since become a disambiguation.
- I stress again, the fact that this page has become a disambiguation page and the reason the Handheld Games Menu was added in order to disambiguate the "games" term.
- In my edit I had also removed mention of the filename Third Games Menu because it didn't make much sense to me for it to be in disambiguation page without appropriate context. Reading the original text, it does mention of the "games directory" but both explanations were poorly worded. ("games" isn't part of the "directory" name, it's part of its filename.) I think this portion of the fact needs to be improved, although that information should go on the article instead of the disambiguation. The undo also reverted other helpful edits which were subsequently improved by Blue Ninja.
- --Stux 17:00, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
Update: I've updated the page so that the mentions of the filename are clearer. --Stux 17:09, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- I actually agree with RickTommy on not listing the Handheld Games Menu. Unless I'm mistaken, lowercase article names on this wiki usually indicate a filename (that is, when it's not something that has an official lowercase title on the website, usually a Strong Bad Email). Given the existence of Games Menu (which already has the Handheld Menu) as a separate disambiguation from games, along with Stux recently adding a new "See Also" section that links to it, I find it odd and inaccurate to list a menu that never had the "games" filename on this page. DEI
DAT
VM
┌datvm center\super contra┘ 21:15, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- The lowercase articles do indeed refer to filenames, and typically, we redirect those filenames to their targets. The situation here is that the term "games" in ambiguous and thus this page now serves for disambiguation. The Handheld Games Menu, I believe falls under the scope of disambiguation. Otherwise, by the filenames logic we'd also have to remove the link to Games from this page! It was that ambiguity that led to the transformation of this page anyway.
- I had added the "see also" sections to both this and the Games Menu page rather hurriedly in retrospect: I'm starting to think that the remaining items from Games Menu should instead be copied here and Games Menu itself turned into a redirect to this disambiguation. Essentially merging them into one. What do you guys think? --Stux 21:49, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- That is true that this is a special case: almost every other filename is unambigious, and the two that aren't (sbemail100 and sbemail200) are only ambiguous because of how the sbemail naming scheme works. I'm reticent to merge the Games Menu page here though, since they seem to serve separate purposes: this one for the filename, the other for things that can be called "menus listing games". I notice that there's also a lot of pages that link to games where they should probably link to Games Menu. (As a side note, I just noticed that the current page that "homestarrunner.com/games" directs to is the Videlectrix site, which isn't listed here. I'mma add that one.) DEI
DAT
VM┌datvm center\super contra┘ 22:57, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- I think part of the issue we're having is that the itch.io page (despite mentions in Games and videlectrix.com) has no "real" article of its own. As it has taken over homestarrunner.com/games and homestarrunner.com/games.html (and therefore the Main Page "games" button), the SSGM has been moved to homestarrunner.com/viderogames, and itch includes multiple 2020s browser games that aren't on the SSGM, it's pretty obviously the main focus for the "games" filename. I don't think "games.swf" (especially in the post-flash era) has a strong enough claim to being the target of "games" to be placed on equal footing in 2024. With that in mind, making an article for that page would allow us to turn this disambig into a redirect like so:
- games: redirects to Videlectrix itch.io article
- Videlectrix itch.io article: "games" redirects here. For a list of all games, see Games. For the page at games.swf, see Third Games Menu.
- Third Games Menu: This page's filename is "games.swf". For a list of all games, see Games. For the page at homestarrunner.com/games, see Videlectrix itch.io.
- Compare how "store" just directs to Store, without confusingly redirecting to a disambig that points out the Flash Store was at "store.swf" back in '01. -- Bleu Ninja
00:26, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- Hmm, that is true that perhaps we should prioritize the current thing that's occupying the most prominent "games" filename. The hatnote on the itch.io page would need to list Games, Scrolling Shooter Games Menu, and Third Games Menu, which I think would be fine, though it might be on the edge of whether a hatnote or a disambiguation page would be more appropriate. If it'd be too long a hatnote then maybe the current content of games could be relocated to games (disambiguation)? DEI
DAT
VM┌datvm center\super contra┘ 22:41, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- Hmm, that is true that perhaps we should prioritize the current thing that's occupying the most prominent "games" filename. The hatnote on the itch.io page would need to list Games, Scrolling Shooter Games Menu, and Third Games Menu, which I think would be fine, though it might be on the edge of whether a hatnote or a disambiguation page would be more appropriate. If it'd be too long a hatnote then maybe the current content of games could be relocated to games (disambiguation)? DEI
DAT
VM
- I think part of the issue we're having is that the itch.io page (despite mentions in Games and videlectrix.com) has no "real" article of its own. As it has taken over homestarrunner.com/games and homestarrunner.com/games.html (and therefore the Main Page "games" button), the SSGM has been moved to homestarrunner.com/viderogames, and itch includes multiple 2020s browser games that aren't on the SSGM, it's pretty obviously the main focus for the "games" filename. I don't think "games.swf" (especially in the post-flash era) has a strong enough claim to being the target of "games" to be placed on equal footing in 2024. With that in mind, making an article for that page would allow us to turn this disambig into a redirect like so:
- That is true that this is a special case: almost every other filename is unambigious, and the two that aren't (sbemail100 and sbemail200) are only ambiguous because of how the sbemail naming scheme works. I'm reticent to merge the Games Menu page here though, since they seem to serve separate purposes: this one for the filename, the other for things that can be called "menus listing games". I notice that there's also a lot of pages that link to games where they should probably link to Games Menu. (As a side note, I just noticed that the current page that "homestarrunner.com/games" directs to is the Videlectrix site, which isn't listed here. I'mma add that one.) DEI
DAT
VM
- I think Blue Ninja's makes a good point that it's confusing that the itch.io web page doesn't have its own article, but part of that may be because it overlaps with the new videlectrix.com page.
- Now, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, I think most of the discussion here has centered around the "games" filename at the cost of ignoring the disambiguation portion of the page. The aim of disambiguation links are to resolve ambiguity in terminology. An editor familiar with the site will know that the Games page lists all the games, and perhaps know that "games" is a filename in three different concepts. But a new editor, one who isn't as familiar with the wiki and/or might be new to Homestar Runner, will likely be confused if they are looking for games in general when they type "games" in the search bar on the left and end up being redirected to an itch.io page (or in the past, one of the games menus). Games would be more appropriate in that situation but doesn't cover all scenarios for games.
- So, between making this page a redirect again and keeping it as a disambiguation, I, personally, prefer keeping this as a disambiguation in the name of usability.
- AS for DEIDATVM's suggestion to have a "games (disambiguation)" page, I think that would be a good idea, except that I now think that both "games" and "Games" should point to the same content! This goes back to my earlier comment about typing the word "games" in the search in order to find related content (which may or may not be "Games"). The "Games" page would be renamed to something less ambiguous such as "Homestar Runner Games".
- This would then mean that all links to "games" or "Games" would point to a disambiguation page and force us to review all links to make sure that they're pointing to the correct page. It is extra work but I think it would leave the wiki in an overall cleaner state.
- Looking back, I think the wiki sort of painted itself into a corner with the games thing but I think this is a good opportunity to try to clean this up as neatly as possible while keeping the content as useful as possible.
- I'd also like to point out that this specific topic was previously discussed in this project page: HRWiki:Projects/Possible Page Disambiguations. I think this discussion helps towards completing that project. --Stux 16:21, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
