HRWiki talk:Favicon

From Homestar Runner Wiki

Revision as of 01:11, 8 May 2008

This discussion was originally on HRWiki talk:Logo redesign 2006

There have been strong objects to using anything a logo that resembles the offical Homestar Runner site logo. Here is a screen print of the QOTW page. You will notice 4 times where we've used the official h*r logo. #'s 2, 3, and 4 can be argued as legit because they do link the official site, but #1 (the icon at the top which also appears in your bookmarks) doesn't have anything to do with the official but our site. I propose that if so many people feel that we shouldn't be using the h*r logo, we also shouldn't be using it in the address bar of the browser. I R F 14:29, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, the favicon doesn't stick out as much as the logo, and as you said, the rest are links to the official site. If we adopted the Homestarrunner logo as our logo, I think that that would just be intense copycatting. - The Joe^(Talk) 14:38, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Although I certainly don't see any reason that, once we get done with this, we don't turn our attention to a new favicon. —AbdiViklas 14:44, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Definitely. We already addressed this briefly at the original discussion. Loafing 20:33, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

What's a favicon? -Brightstar Shiner 23:00, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

A favicon is what IRF circled a 1) in his screenshot. Loafing 23:02, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Ah, I see. But that'll probably just change with whatever logo we end up picking, right? What's the use of having a logo and a favicon that look completely different from each other? -Brightstar Shiner 23:11, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

I guess that's hard to answer until we've picked one, but the size differences might matter. A favicon has to be able to look good and be recognizable in very small dimensions. —AbdiViklas 23:19, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

The favicon has doesn't match our current logo so it doesn't logically follow that it would change too. I think the onyl reason that it would change is all the recent discussion about the official logo. I R F 04:20, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

It would be, in my opinion, hypocritical not to change the favicon after the discussion about the official logo not being used in the logo. The favicon uses the H*R logo, which, according to many user's opinion's here, would be immoral. If you can't use it in the logo, then you shouldn't be able to associate the official logo with any other part of the Wiki itself, including the favicon. So I think it HAS to be changed if the majority of user's believe you can't use the H*R logo in the Wiki logo. I'd find it hard to argue that point. »Bleed0range« 18:33, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

So everybody stop talking and make something. It need not match whatever we go with for our big logo. Also, we will use variations of it at the fanstuff and forum, so keep that in mind. — It's dot com 18:51, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Idc, I tried for an hour last friday to find the actual graphic for the favicon, so that I could study it in terms of dimensions, pixel size, and how it look when enlarged. If I could find the graphic file, I would be glad to propose favicons. I R F 19:43, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

The file is at favicon.ico for nearly all websites. - The Joe^(Talk) 19:47, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

The image displayed by most browsers is 16×16 pixels. Ideas do not need to be in any particular format. We'll handle the technical details of converting it and whatnot. — It's dot com 19:51, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Some ideas are as follows. Homestar's Head looks nice as an icon. Also, With a background color and starshirt red. It's rather difficult to accomplish written text in a 16x16 space, these are the most legible and pleasing designs I could come up with.-- »Bleed0range« 05:17, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I like the idea of the favicon matching the logo in style. If we pick either of my two favorite logos, Current Updated or World, then I would suggest that we use for the favicon Homestar's head against the blue Kamikaze background or Homestar standing against the globe, respectively (no words in either case). Trey56 18:46, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Trey I'm not sure that you realize how hard that is to do in 16x16. I'm surprised that we can read hrw in our current favicon. I tried to make a few but even the simple were very non-readable. If we are to make a favicon that matches the logo that will have to be on talented dude or dudett. I R F 04:19, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, I had actually done a couple very rough mock-ups before I posed the above comment; and while they looked small, those things always look small, unless you have an exceedingly simple graphic... I hear you though. Trey56 04:27, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

How about just a W a-la Wikipedia, but in the same font of the chosen logo? — Elcool ^(talk)_(contribs) 06:09, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Now that we're zeroing in on the "Current Updated" ideas for the logo, I propose that the favicon be Homestar's torso and head in front of the kamikaze background, like the following one: (perhaps with some formatting). Trey56 14:13, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Discussion of specific options

Current

The only problem with this one (to many users) is that it includes the Homesar Runner official logo. (see here for a representive snapshot of some objections to this.) Trey56 17:52, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Homestar Head

Homestar Head Blue

Kamikaze

A FireFox window with several tabs open

A Safari window with favicons in a drop-down menu

This one was made with the intention of matching the two likely replacements for our current logo: Current Updated B and Current Updated C. Trey56 17:52, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

I kind of like this one. And since our logo is definitely going to resemble this anyway, I say we should go for it. — Lapper (talk) 20:19, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I really like this one, it, like Lapper said, it is what the logo is going to look like.--H*Bad 20:23, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

To be honest, I don't have any problems with our current icon. But if we're going to change, the blue Homestar kamikaze has my vote.
— ^Sam_{Fisher (Come in, Lambert.)} 15:32, 2 December 2006

If we were to use this for the regular wiki, then, as the project page indicates, we should change the Fanstuff Wiki and Forum favicons as well. Posted below the heading are analogous favicons that could be used for the Forum and Fanstuff. Trey56 21:56, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

I truly like all of these, but, if we're choosing one of the three for the knowledge base, I'd choose one of the Homestars. Bluebry 02:15, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Is it possible to have a different favicon for the forum and fanstuff? I think that you set one for the entire website and then all of the sub-whatevers get it too. - The Joe^(Talk) 02:18, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

It's possible to have different favicons for each page. Bluebry 02:21, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

To clarify, these icons are being presented as a set, not individually. If we don't go with this idea, then anything else we do go with needs to be a set. And yes, as mentioned, we can have different favicons for different subdomains. Oh, and I remembered two other subdomains we have that could be in the set: old.hrwiki.org (perhaps The Homestar Runner against a gray kamakazi background) and chat.hrwiki.org. — It's dot com 03:06, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

I made up favicons with a few different backgrounds (see above) in case they're wanted for various different subdomains. Trey56 13:33, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Oh, you said The Homestar Runner...I'll try that...(see above) Trey56 19:07, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Great work Trey, any chance you can do one with an open mouth Homestar? Just interested to see what it would look like that small, I'd rather have the Favicon match the chosen logo if possible (so lets see what both options look like. The only other one I would try if I had the software would be one of these with a W included within the design. All that said, I think the various colors (and The Homestar Runner) all work really well. - Ilko Skevüld's Teh C 23:51, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Sure: . I'm not sure if I like it, for some reason it looks like he's swallowing scorpions or something when it's that small... anyway, thanks for the feedback :) Trey56 04:21, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

I concur, Last Place *ding* . . . at that size it's not clear enough. Thanks for humoring me, I figured someone sometime would bring it up, so figured I might just as well ask now. - Ilko Skevüld's Teh C 13:27, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, if the "grinning Homestar" logo is ultimately chosen, then it sure would make sense to have the favicon match that one. Maybe I can try again, this time with less scorpion... Trey56 14:19, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

If you have too much "scorpion" in there, you might as well just pick the one with his mouth closed, seeing as the logo might permanently alternate. -Brightstar Shiner 13:42, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm waiting to see how the logo discussion turns out before doing anything else. In my opinion, the only reason we'd have to worry about making an open-mouthed favicon is if C alone is chosen (which is a very realistic possibility). Trey56 21:03, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I personally don't like either [the open- or closed-mouth choices] as a favicon. I think the favicon could do without the kamikaze background. Salty^Talk! 04:45, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Here's a comparison of different background brightnesses for some proposed favicons. The top row is the B-style, the second row is the C-style, and the third row is the SB-style. The first column matches the background of the proposed logos, and as you move right, the brightness of the background increases. Any preferences? Trey56 06:30, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

I like closed-mouth Homestar, second from the left. I like the Strong Bad that's second from the right. — It's dot com 19:51, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree and updated Image:Homestar Kamikaze Favicon.png and Image:SB Kamikaze Favicon.png accordingly. Trey56 18:15, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Homestar Mouth Open, No Background

I think the favicon would look better without the background. Salty^Talk! 20:56, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

I uploaded a version with the background removed around Homestar's edges — I think this one suffers from the same clarity issues as the open-mouthed favicon above. Also, I think it's good to have a background for Homestar's white head to stand out against in the address bar. Trey56 21:39, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Star Shirt

Other Ideas

Like I suggested above, can someone please create a W favicon in the same font as the new logo? — Elcool ^(talk)_(contribs) 20:20, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Will It Change?

Is this discussion still going on? The logo is now C, but the favicon hasn't changed. Are we still going to change it? -Brightstar Shiner 12:58, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I still think that we should change it to match the new logo — but whether we change will probably depend on other users giving input. If everybody's okay with the status quo, then by default we'll probably just stick with the current favicon. Trey56 23:32, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

This thing got like no publicity at all. Everyone knew about the logo thing because the template came up every time they went to Recent Changes. If we could make this known, maybe more people would give us some input. The only problem is that...aren't we all kind of tired of this? We just had the whole logo discussion and I don't think everyone's up to another big ordeal, though this wouldn't have to be as much of one. Maybe we should just inform the admins and let them decide? -Brightstar Shiner 04:08, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I think you hit the nail on the head, Brightstar — after the logo redesign and the Halloween and Decemberween skin changes, I think everybody (myself included) had their fill of site design deliberations for a while. Despite this ambivalence, it looks like the above Kamikaze option has about 6 1/2 supporters, 1/2 neutral users, and 1 opponent. Hardly an overwhelming response from all the registered users who would see the favicon, but certainly the majority of those that both were aware of this discussion and cared enough to comment.

So, we could let this discussion fade like others, but I think it's worth completing for the following reasons: (a) at one point, there were quite a few users who strongly believed that we shouldn't use the official logo as part of our own, (b) it makes sense to have the big logo and favicon match each other, at least in style, and (c) it would be a nice tool to have different icons representing the different subdomains for users who have several tabs open at once.

If we're going to complete the discussion, here are the main questions that I think need to be answered (I'm operating under the assumption that the Kamikaze icon set is the only widely supported option right now):

1. How much more awareness of this conversation does the general population need to have before a change is made?
2. How many more users' agreement does this decision require before a change is made?

If those two questions are answered and the corresponding quotas satisfied, then I think that all that remains is to make minor tweaks to the proposed set and then implement them. But if there are enough users who are satisfied with the status quo, having that on record would be a fine outcome to this discussion as well. Trey56 00:37, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

I think that some key users, such as the sysops and people at the forum and fanstuff, should absolutely be notified of the issue here as well as most of the general public via a message at the main page. If we changed the favicon and almost nobody knew about it, it would cause an uproar of posts such as, "Wut happend 2 teh thing in duh browzer?!?!!!!111!!one", and we don't want that. As for how many users we need input from, well it certainly needs to be more than eight people, but I'm thinking about twenty or so. That includes the forum and fanstuff. -Brightstar Shiner 17:31, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

The Other One That Needs To Be Revisited

Now that HRWiki:Article cleanup is rolling and other people are starting to take an interest in it, I think I'll come over here and kickstart this long-forgotten project. As you guys should know, the favicon (that little picture to the left of the URL in your browser) needs to be changed because of legal reasons (it resembles the H*R official logo too much). This discussion came up during the long and hectic logo redesign period, where it was quickly forgotten. I think we have everything we need to carry this out; all that has to happen is decide whether the choices above are truly the right favicons, inform the people at the forum and fantuff and get their approval, then go for it! What do you say? -Brightstar Shiner 22:09, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

(Note, it's more of an ethical issue, rather than a legal one. Legally, this wiki doesn't have much of a leg to stand on—we are allowed to operate only at The Brothers Chaps' pleasure.) — It's dot com 22:25, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

*ahem* I knew that... -Brightstar Shiner 22:49, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Should We Deal With This?

I guess I've sort of gotten a reputation for not letting projects die. If something fades into the distance, I like to give it a shove into the limelight again, which sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. The underlying themes behind this particular project were to make the favicon look more like the new HRWiki logo (which, at the time, was still in discussion) and to avoid potential lawsuits from using the official H*R logo. The latter hasn't happened, so the only real reason to change the favicon now is to match the new logo. No giant debates are going on, everybody's had a break from Recent Changes overflowing, and I've come back to the wiki one year older and wiser. Changing the favicon would in no way be a huge deal or flood RC, but I wonder: Does it matter? I know not many users are on the wiki right now and those that are might not care about such a small matter, so I may be talking to the wall. But if it would benefit the wiki to change the favicon, I'd be ready and willing to go through with it. I wouldn't be happy just letting it die. -Brightstar Shiner 22:02, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Let me try to be civil about this. Currently, I am talking to the wall. I have waited for four days and have left a note on Dot Com's talk page concerning this matter. Neither of the times have I received a reply. I don't necessarily need to restart this project, all I want to know is if it matters to do so. -Brightstar Shiner 21:11, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

I think it's fine how it is. — Defender1031*Talk 23:16, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Interesting. However, the fanstuff wiki and the forum's favicons are the same as ours. It would be easier at least to modify the three so that they are easy to tell from one another when a user has many tabs open or is looking at History in Safari, don't you think? -Brightstar Shiner 23:57, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I really don't like the current Favicon. But I'm not discouraged that four days hasn't resulted in anything; this just hasn't had enough visibility, maybe. OptimisticFool 00:07, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't like the favicon either. And it seems like repeated posting has been the only way for this page to get noticed so far. This project would benefit from more voices so it doesn't get abandoned again, but how do we know if anyone really cares? -Brightstar Shiner 00:23, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

It's usually kinda hard to motivate a change in status quo for a significant change (see my thread at History According to Strong Bad). But if people care enough, they'll post. Anyway, I'm with DeF here in that I don't see a compelling reason for change. (And fwiw, I like the current icon more than any of the alternatives proposed so far). -DAGRON 01:11, 8 May 2008 (UTC)