HRWiki talk:Favicon

From Homestar Runner Wiki

Contents 1 Background 2 Discussion of specific options 2.1 Current 2.2 Homestar Head 2.3 Homestar Head Blue 2.4 Kamikaze 2.5 Homestar Mouth Open, No Background 2.6 Star Shirt 3 Other Ideas 4 Will It Change? 5 The Other One That Needs To Be Revisited 6 Should We Deal With This? 7 Ideas 8 Two options: which one is the jenga jam? 9 The Other Favicons

[edit] Background

This discussion was originally on HRWiki talk:Logo redesign 2006

There have been strong objects to using anything a logo that resembles the offical Homestar Runner site logo. Here is a screen print of the QOTW page. You will notice 4 times where we've used the official h*r logo. #'s 2, 3, and 4 can be argued as legit because they do link the official site, but #1 (the icon at the top which also appears in your bookmarks) doesn't have anything to do with the official but our site. I propose that if so many people feel that we shouldn't be using the h*r logo, we also shouldn't be using it in the address bar of the browser. I R F 14:29, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, the favicon doesn't stick out as much as the logo, and as you said, the rest are links to the official site. If we adopted the Homestarrunner logo as our logo, I think that that would just be intense copycatting. - The Joe^(Talk) 14:38, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Although I certainly don't see any reason that, once we get done with this, we don't turn our attention to a new favicon. —AbdiViklas 14:44, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Definitely. We already addressed this briefly at the original discussion. Loafing 20:33, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

What's a favicon? -Brightstar Shiner 23:00, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

A favicon is what IRF circled a 1) in his screenshot. Loafing 23:02, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Ah, I see. But that'll probably just change with whatever logo we end up picking, right? What's the use of having a logo and a favicon that look completely different from each other? -Brightstar Shiner 23:11, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

I guess that's hard to answer until we've picked one, but the size differences might matter. A favicon has to be able to look good and be recognizable in very small dimensions. —AbdiViklas 23:19, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

The favicon has doesn't match our current logo so it doesn't logically follow that it would change too. I think the onyl reason that it would change is all the recent discussion about the official logo. I R F 04:20, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

It would be, in my opinion, hypocritical not to change the favicon after the discussion about the official logo not being used in the logo. The favicon uses the H*R logo, which, according to many user's opinion's here, would be immoral. If you can't use it in the logo, then you shouldn't be able to associate the official logo with any other part of the Wiki itself, including the favicon. So I think it HAS to be changed if the majority of user's believe you can't use the H*R logo in the Wiki logo. I'd find it hard to argue that point. »Bleed0range« 18:33, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

So everybody stop talking and make something. It need not match whatever we go with for our big logo. Also, we will use variations of it at the fanstuff and forum, so keep that in mind. — It's dot com 18:51, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Idc, I tried for an hour last friday to find the actual graphic for the favicon, so that I could study it in terms of dimensions, pixel size, and how it look when enlarged. If I could find the graphic file, I would be glad to propose favicons. I R F 19:43, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

The file is at favicon.ico for nearly all websites. - The Joe^(Talk) 19:47, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

The image displayed by most browsers is 16×16 pixels. Ideas do not need to be in any particular format. We'll handle the technical details of converting it and whatnot. — It's dot com 19:51, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Some ideas are as follows. Homestar's Head looks nice as an icon. Also, With a background color and starshirt red. It's rather difficult to accomplish written text in a 16x16 space, these are the most legible and pleasing designs I could come up with.-- »Bleed0range« 05:17, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I like the idea of the favicon matching the logo in style. If we pick either of my two favorite logos, Current Updated or World, then I would suggest that we use for the favicon Homestar's head against the blue Kamikaze background or Homestar standing against the globe, respectively (no words in either case). Trey56 18:46, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Trey I'm not sure that you realize how hard that is to do in 16x16. I'm surprised that we can read hrw in our current favicon. I tried to make a few but even the simple were very non-readable. If we are to make a favicon that matches the logo that will have to be on talented dude or dudett. I R F 04:19, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, I had actually done a couple very rough mock-ups before I posed the above comment; and while they looked small, those things always look small, unless you have an exceedingly simple graphic... I hear you though. Trey56 04:27, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

How about just a W a-la Wikipedia, but in the same font of the chosen logo? — Elcool ^(talk)_(contribs) 06:09, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Now that we're zeroing in on the "Current Updated" ideas for the logo, I propose that the favicon be Homestar's torso and head in front of the kamikaze background, like the following one: (perhaps with some formatting). Trey56 14:13, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion of specific options

[edit] Current

The only problem with this one (to many users) is that it includes the Homesar Runner official logo. (see here for a representive snapshot of some objections to this.) Trey56 17:52, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Homestar Head

[edit] Homestar Head Blue

[edit] Kamikaze

(spares: )

This one was made with the intention of matching the two likely replacements for our current logo: Current Updated B and Current Updated C. Trey56 17:52, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

I kind of like this one. And since our logo is definitely going to resemble this anyway, I say we should go for it. — Lapper (talk) 20:19, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I really like this one, it, like Lapper said, it is what the logo is going to look like.--H*Bad 20:23, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

To be honest, I don't have any problems with our current icon. But if we're going to change, the blue Homestar kamikaze has my vote.
— ^Sam_{Fisher (Come in, Lambert.)} 15:32, 2 December 2006

If we were to use this for the regular wiki, then, as the project page indicates, we should change the Fanstuff Wiki and Forum favicons as well. Posted below the heading are analogous favicons that could be used for the Forum and Fanstuff. Trey56 21:56, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

I truly like all of these, but, if we're choosing one of the three for the knowledge base, I'd choose one of the Homestars. Bluebry 02:15, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Is it possible to have a different favicon for the forum and fanstuff? I think that you set one for the entire website and then all of the sub-whatevers get it too. - The Joe^(Talk) 02:18, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

It's possible to have different favicons for each page. Bluebry 02:21, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

To clarify, these icons are being presented as a set, not individually. If we don't go with this idea, then anything else we do go with needs to be a set. And yes, as mentioned, we can have different favicons for different subdomains. Oh, and I remembered two other subdomains we have that could be in the set: old.hrwiki.org (perhaps The Homestar Runner against a gray kamakazi background) and chat.hrwiki.org. — It's dot com 03:06, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

I made up favicons with a few different backgrounds (see above) in case they're wanted for various different subdomains. Trey56 13:33, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Oh, you said The Homestar Runner...I'll try that...(see above) Trey56 19:07, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Great work Trey, any chance you can do one with an open mouth Homestar? Just interested to see what it would look like that small, I'd rather have the Favicon match the chosen logo if possible (so lets see what both options look like. The only other one I would try if I had the software would be one of these with a W included within the design. All that said, I think the various colors (and The Homestar Runner) all work really well. - Ilko Skevüld's Teh C 23:51, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Sure: . I'm not sure if I like it, for some reason it looks like he's swallowing scorpions or something when it's that small... anyway, thanks for the feedback :) Trey56 04:21, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

I concur, Last Place *ding* . . . at that size it's not clear enough. Thanks for humoring me, I figured someone sometime would bring it up, so figured I might just as well ask now. - Ilko Skevüld's Teh C 13:27, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, if the "grinning Homestar" logo is ultimately chosen, then it sure would make sense to have the favicon match that one. Maybe I can try again, this time with less scorpion... Trey56 14:19, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

If you have too much "scorpion" in there, you might as well just pick the one with his mouth closed, seeing as the logo might permanently alternate. -Brightstar Shiner 13:42, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm waiting to see how the logo discussion turns out before doing anything else. In my opinion, the only reason we'd have to worry about making an open-mouthed favicon is if C alone is chosen (which is a very realistic possibility). Trey56 21:03, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I personally don't like either [the open- or closed-mouth choices] as a favicon. I think the favicon could do without the kamikaze background. Salty^Talk! 04:45, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Here's a comparison of different background brightnesses for some proposed favicons. The top row is the B-style, the second row is the C-style, and the third row is the SB-style. The first column matches the background of the proposed logos, and as you move right, the brightness of the background increases. Any preferences? Trey56 06:30, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

I like closed-mouth Homestar, second from the left. I like the Strong Bad that's second from the right. — It's dot com 19:51, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree and updated Image:Homestar Kamikaze Favicon.png and Image:SB Kamikaze Favicon.png accordingly. Trey56 18:15, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Homestar Mouth Open, No Background

I think the favicon would look better without the background. Salty^Talk! 20:56, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

I uploaded a version with the background removed around Homestar's edges — I think this one suffers from the same clarity issues as the open-mouthed favicon above. Also, I think it's good to have a background for Homestar's white head to stand out against in the address bar. Trey56 21:39, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Star Shirt

[edit] Other Ideas

Like I suggested above, can someone please create a W favicon in the same font as the new logo? — Elcool ^(talk)_(contribs) 20:20, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Will It Change?

Is this discussion still going on? The logo is now C, but the favicon hasn't changed. Are we still going to change it? -Brightstar Shiner 12:58, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I still think that we should change it to match the new logo — but whether we change will probably depend on other users giving input. If everybody's okay with the status quo, then by default we'll probably just stick with the current favicon. Trey56 23:32, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

This thing got like no publicity at all. Everyone knew about the logo thing because the template came up every time they went to Recent Changes. If we could make this known, maybe more people would give us some input. The only problem is that...aren't we all kind of tired of this? We just had the whole logo discussion and I don't think everyone's up to another big ordeal, though this wouldn't have to be as much of one. Maybe we should just inform the admins and let them decide? -Brightstar Shiner 04:08, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I think you hit the nail on the head, Brightstar — after the logo redesign and the Halloween and Decemberween skin changes, I think everybody (myself included) had their fill of site design deliberations for a while. Despite this ambivalence, it looks like the above Kamikaze option has about 6 1/2 supporters, 1/2 neutral users, and 1 opponent. Hardly an overwhelming response from all the registered users who would see the favicon, but certainly the majority of those that both were aware of this discussion and cared enough to comment.

So, we could let this discussion fade like others, but I think it's worth completing for the following reasons: (a) at one point, there were quite a few users who strongly believed that we shouldn't use the official logo as part of our own, (b) it makes sense to have the big logo and favicon match each other, at least in style, and (c) it would be a nice tool to have different icons representing the different subdomains for users who have several tabs open at once.

If we're going to complete the discussion, here are the main questions that I think need to be answered (I'm operating under the assumption that the Kamikaze icon set is the only widely supported option right now):

1. How much more awareness of this conversation does the general population need to have before a change is made?
2. How many more users' agreement does this decision require before a change is made?

If those two questions are answered and the corresponding quotas satisfied, then I think that all that remains is to make minor tweaks to the proposed set and then implement them. But if there are enough users who are satisfied with the status quo, having that on record would be a fine outcome to this discussion as well. Trey56 00:37, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

I think that some key users, such as the sysops and people at the forum and fanstuff, should absolutely be notified of the issue here as well as most of the general public via a message at the main page. If we changed the favicon and almost nobody knew about it, it would cause an uproar of posts such as, "Wut happend 2 teh thing in duh browzer?!?!!!!111!!one", and we don't want that. As for how many users we need input from, well it certainly needs to be more than eight people, but I'm thinking about twenty or so. That includes the forum and fanstuff. -Brightstar Shiner 17:31, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Other One That Needs To Be Revisited

Now that HRWiki:Article cleanup is rolling and other people are starting to take an interest in it, I think I'll come over here and kickstart this long-forgotten project. As you guys should know, the favicon (that little picture to the left of the URL in your browser) needs to be changed because of legal reasons (it resembles the H*R official logo too much). This discussion came up during the long and hectic logo redesign period, where it was quickly forgotten. I think we have everything we need to carry this out; all that has to happen is decide whether the choices above are truly the right favicons, inform the people at the forum and fantuff and get their approval, then go for it! What do you say? -Brightstar Shiner 22:09, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

(Note, it's more of an ethical issue, rather than a legal one. Legally, this wiki doesn't have much of a leg to stand on—we are allowed to operate only at The Brothers Chaps' pleasure.) — It's dot com 22:25, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

*ahem* I knew that... -Brightstar Shiner 22:49, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Should We Deal With This?

I guess I've sort of gotten a reputation for not letting projects die. If something fades into the distance, I like to give it a shove into the limelight again, which sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. The underlying themes behind this particular project were to make the favicon look more like the new HRWiki logo (which, at the time, was still in discussion) and to avoid potential lawsuits from using the official H*R logo. The latter hasn't happened, so the only real reason to change the favicon now is to match the new logo. No giant debates are going on, everybody's had a break from Recent Changes overflowing, and I've come back to the wiki one year older and wiser. Changing the favicon would in no way be a huge deal or flood RC, but I wonder: Does it matter? I know not many users are on the wiki right now and those that are might not care about such a small matter, so I may be talking to the wall. But if it would benefit the wiki to change the favicon, I'd be ready and willing to go through with it. I wouldn't be happy just letting it die. -Brightstar Shiner 22:02, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Let me try to be civil about this. Currently, I am talking to the wall. I have waited for four days and have left a note on Dot Com's talk page concerning this matter. Neither of the times have I received a reply. I don't necessarily need to restart this project, all I want to know is if it matters to do so. -Brightstar Shiner 21:11, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

I think it's fine how it is. — Defender1031*Talk 23:16, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Interesting. However, the fanstuff wiki and the forum's favicons are the same as ours. It would be easier at least to modify the three so that they are easy to tell from one another when a user has many tabs open or is looking at History in Safari, don't you think? -Brightstar Shiner 23:57, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I really don't like the current Favicon. But I'm not discouraged that four days hasn't resulted in anything; this just hasn't had enough visibility, maybe. OptimisticFool 00:07, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't like the favicon either. And it seems like repeated posting has been the only way for this page to get noticed so far. This project would benefit from more voices so it doesn't get abandoned again, but how do we know if anyone really cares? -Brightstar Shiner 00:23, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

It's usually kinda hard to motivate a change in status quo for a significant change (see my thread at History According to Strong Bad). But if people care enough, they'll post. Anyway, I'm with DeF here in that I don't see a compelling reason for change. (And fwiw, I like the current icon more than any of the alternatives proposed so far). -DAGRON 01:11, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

In my opinion, the kamikazes are cool...and if we get the HRFWiki, the Forum...etc., to use it, then it'll have a cool "sequence" vibe. DevonM(talk·cont-ribs) 01:15, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

People seemed to like the kamikazes when this topic was first brought up. I like them, and since they match the logo in different colors, the three sites could be like Power Rangers or something! ^_^ -Brightstar Shiner 02:11, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

I would support a change in favicons, though I am ambivolent whether we do it or not. I'm fine if we do. - Qermaq - (^T/C)  21:56, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

I like the Kamikaze favicon for the main wiki. Then we should do an orange SB kamikaze favicon for the fanstuff. It's a good idea to have the favicon match the icon. That's all I have to say. The wiki deserves better than the fanstuff's current favicon, which is why i support the favicon change. DrPepper42 12:56, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Ideas

Okay. After waiting for a while and asking people's opinions on IRC, I have a very rough estimate of what to do. First of all, we should change the favicon. It's due for a change because of the new(ish) wiki logo. Also, we don't know when we might get in trouble for using the official logo of the site. The most favored candidates right now are:

• The Star Shirt. Identifiable for a wiki about Homestar Runner, but doesn't look like the logo. It doesn't have to, but we may want the logo and favicon to be similar at least.
• The Kamikaze. Looks the most like our new logo, but some complain that Homestar doesn't look good when he's that small.
• The W. A simpler picture that looks better when it's small, but it doesn't really say "Homestar Runner Wiki" (at least to me). The font is the same as on Homsar's shirt.
  

Please place your comments below. And remember, new suggestions are always welcome! -Brightstar Shiner 21:56, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Ok, what I think? We should use The W. Why? well, like many wikis, we use W to represent that we are an encyclopedic site that use wiki software. The Kamikaze background is the connection to Homestar Runner. The font and color of the W suggest our large logo. If have all the right ingredients, and it looks good in a small size. The two others each lack something I mentioned, mostly, that we are a wiki. — Elcool ^(talk)_(contribs) 21:33, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

W or Kamikaze, preference in that order. OptimisticFool 21:56, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

I prefer Kamikaze, then W'. I wonder if what makes the Kamikaze one look odd is the lack of Homestar's mouth at that scale? I wonder if a few grey pixels would help. -- Mithent 22:06, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm totally hearting the W. It's simple enough to see at such a small resolution, but it still has to do with Homestar. Also, it looks cool. Bluebry 22:11, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

I prefer Kamikaze (I think it's good to have Homestar to make the icon recognizably HSR-themed), but I'd be happy with W (reminds me of Creme Savers for some reason). I like 'em both though. Trey56 22:27, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Do you think it would be a good idea to put a template on RC for this in lieu of the logo discussion? After all, it affects the whole wiki and we don't want anyone to be surprised if and when we change it. -Brightstar Shiner 22:41, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

In response to the call for comment, I'll basically restate what I said above. I like the current icon more than any of the proposed alternatives. I don't think there's any danger of someone mistaking us as having an official connection with HR because of it, nor do I think TBC will suddenly develop a serious grievance with it. To me, the W says "Wilson Sporting Goods" more than it says "Homestar Runner Wiki", the red star is way generic, and the kamikaze homestar doesn't really look good at that size, to me. (Again, just stating my opinions). -DAGRON 20:32, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

You have every right to your own opinion, but you don't seem to be taking into account the other reasons why we want to change the favicon. Visually separating the knowledge base, fanstuff, forum, IRC, and old wiki archives from one another would be greatly beneficial to those keeping multiple tabs open in Firefox or looking at History or Bookmarks in any other web browser. Also, we might want to give our wiki a fresh new touch after updating the logo two years ago. Dagron, do you strongly prefer our current logo, or do you just not like the choices we have? If it's the latter, we can still think of more ideas for new favicons other than the ones we have now. In fact, would you like to suggest something yourself? We're always open to new ideas. -Brightstar Shiner 20:47, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Oh, but I do use tabbed browsing in Firefox. :P And to answer your question, it's kind of both. I do happen to strongly like the current logo, but I'd be open to another idea if a better one was presented.

To clarify, I'm not saying there's not merit in visually distinguishing the different branches. And admittedly, as you say, I may be understating that merit, especially since I rarely use the forum/fanstuff wiki. But I just wanted to present an opinion about the actual icons themselves, to consider. -DAGRON 20:55, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Awesome. So what kind of favicon are you looking for? -Brightstar Shiner 20:59, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

*shrug* I dunno. As long as it looks good. I don't really have any suggestions at the moment. I'll give it some thought. -DAGRON 21:04, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

The trouble I have with the current icon is that, to me, it looks like "some garglemesh and a W". It just ain't good. Yes, the new W has reminded me of the Wilson logo, but I have since come around to E.L. Cool's point of view. And it's designed with one of the most extenstively fonts (Bauhaus 93) on homestarrunner.com which happens to be the same font used in the logo of the hrwiki. OptimisticFool 22:35, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, but similar font =/= instantly recognizable connection. No one unfamiliar with the HRWiki would see the W and connect it to the project. The other one has Homestar in it, at least. -DAGRON 23:33, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it's crappy, but I think it'll work. I don't have Flash w/ me, so I can't resize to a 20x20 or 10x10 or whatever the favicon would need to be, but knowing about pixel art, it doesn't worsen a lot when resized. This might mean Homestar could be less blurry than he is in the other kamikaze favicon. Please don't edit the pic, I'll remake it tomorrow or something when I have access to Flash again (ps. I made the image in paint |:( Blehh!), and I'll be able to make it proportionally and vector-ally (meaning the viewing will hopefully be better when resized to the regular favicon size) correct. DevonM(talk·cont-ribs) 00:09, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Hm, that's a good idea — when I made the above Kamikaze favicons, I just took large images with normal resolution and shrunk them down. Maybe that's not the best way to do it, though. I'm no good graphicsman, but here's my attempt at removing some of the blurriness that resulted from my resizing: (old/new). Not sure if it makes Homestar any more clear... Trey56 00:41, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

That looks prooty good, Trey. It look's WAAAAY more appropriate for the address bar of a champion browser than the first one. Way less fuzzy. Maybe we can try that method with the other Kamikazes. DevonM(talk·cont-ribs) 00:44, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Here are some screenshots of the W in action. It's okay, but it just seems to be missing something. (Even though I made the set of Ws, I never posted them on the talk page until now because they've never quite hit home for me.) — It's dot com 02:09, 15 May 2008 (UTC

The only trouble I have with the "W" is that I don't think it really explains a lot about the wiki and H*R. For instance, the kamikazes have Homestar, Strong Bad, etc...the "star shirt" has an easily recognizable symbol from the H*R universe. The "W", although I disagree with the people who say it looks like the Wilson logo, doesn't symbolize a whole lot besides the "Intro" background. I feel that the favicon should say something 'bout the site it's on. Most sites use their logo (H*R, Doogtoons, Myspace, just to name a few) as their favicon. Since our actual logo is too big, we need to resort to something that fits the site. And I'm not yet convinced the "W" does that. --DevonM(talk·cont-ribs) 02:16, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

{Edit conflicts are good when a project needs attention, right?} I wholeheartedly agree with Devon. And seeing as the only complaint for the kamikaze is that it looks fuzzy, if we can tinker with it until it looks good, I think we could have something to agree on. And once again, should we have a template on RC? I don't know if we need one, but it might allow more users to know what's going on. -Brightstar Shiner 02:19, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Can we make non-blurry versions of the other kamikazes? -DAGRON 02:25, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

I've noticed that the favicon has been switched. Please inform me if this is a test, because permanently changing the favicon before a consensus has been reached is not a good idea. Thanks, -Brightstar Shiner 01:48, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Not to mention, its the "blurry" kamikaze, not the uh..."less blurry" one. Plus, the favicon's been changed for like, a day now...is it a test? Who changed it? DevonM(talk·cont-ribs) 01:50, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm guessing Dot Com or another admin, just to try it out, but I don't think testing favicons is right at this stage in the game. -Brightstar Shiner 01:54, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

At some late point in the huge logo discussion, when we narrowed it to 3 or 4 logs, we put the new ones in rotation. I think it switched every hour or so. Like the logo redesign, we at this point have 3 or 4 favicons, so I don't think we need as a lengthy discussion as we had two years ago. Going right to the decision making and evaluating in fine. Now, I don't think it's technically feasible to switch the favicon every hour, (maybe it is, but from what I understand, you need a full browser restart/cache clear/computer reboot to see a new favicon. Or something else that's uncomfortable) so how about we try this one for a couple of days, get feedback and switch to another one?

At any rate, I would like to see the W used before I decide if the current one looks better or not. (I'm sorry, but the sample images do not reflect my monitor...) — Elcool ^(talk)_(contribs) 08:12, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

That's fine, but just tell us before you test more, okay? -Brightstar Shiner 10:26, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

I guess the telling part was not indented for me, as i think Dot com changed it. — Elcool ^(talk)_(contribs) 11:34, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Two options: which one is the jenga jam?

This issue has been open for too long. If we're ever going to do it, we need to just do it. I've started us on a rotating favicon between the Kamikaze Homestar and the Kamikaze W. Do not stress about the details. We are still tweaking the actual designs, but what we have so far is good enough to get a general idea. We know that we're not going to make 100% of the people 100% happy, so that isn't our goal. The question you need to ask yourself as you look at these two choices is, can I live with this? Does this fit with the overall theme of the wiki? How will it look on the sister sites? Also, all the active Admins have to be convinced it's a good idea to switch. — It's dot com 22:17, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Kinda goin' off subject here, but I don't really like the PBTC Homestar as much as Strong Bad for the Fanstuff Wiki (that is what it's for, right?). If we needed them all to be H*Rs, then we should probably change the Fanstuff Wiki's logo to some type of Homestar. DevonM(talk·cont-ribs) 22:36, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

You're getting ahead of yourself there. We haven't formally decided to go with the Homestars yet. But yes, if we go with them, then there will be some kind of discussion about what to do with that logo. — It's dot com 22:43, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

K. Getting back to one of my previous posts, I made a set of these pixel kamikazes (all of the regular ones, excluding the Ol' Timey version) that I think make Homestar a lot more identifiable:

DevonM(talk·cont-ribs) 23:05, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

I think those look cool! Personally, I think they're a bit cartoony (for lack of a better word) for the favicon — even the one I tried to edit by hand above seems inauthentic, I think — but I really like your graphics styles... Trey56 23:28, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

I've already said that the Homestar will be tweaked if we go with it, and not to stress about the details at this point. Focus instead on which of the two designs best fits the wiki. — It's dot com 23:58, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

When did we decide against the Strong Bad one? Did I miss a discussion? -DAGRON 00:06, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't think we're necessarily "stressing" about the favicons, IDC. I just posted some alternatives to the Homestar Kamikaze. I know that we're trying to get some stuff done...but what's the problem with looking ahead too much? Oh, and my vote's for the Kamikazes! DevonM(talk·cont-ribs) 00:28, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

That's great, but this isn't a vote. It's more important to know why do you think the way you do. DAGRON: We the administrators want the favicons to be a unifying theme across the sister sites, and frankly the way the Strong Bad icon doesn't fit in with the rest has prevented action being taken on this sooner. Recently we had the idea to use another version of Homestar instead, and it was that decision, not recent discussion per se, that became the impetus for finally moving forward after all this time. — It's dot com 00:44, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Now that I've had a chance to see these favicons in action, I feel more strongly than ever that the Homestar Kamikaze series is the way to go. It just feels right to have the big icon and favicon matching so well: I think it looks really sharp. Trey56 00:49, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

I also like the kamikaze icons the best. Although, I think that the forum one should be 1-Up instead. JCM 00:57, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Nah, the forum should be the good ol' H-star-R. But that might be an excellent idea for the fanstuff. Conceptually, I think still PbTC fits better, but they do love Stinkoman over there. We'll try it out and give it some thought. — It's dot com 01:26, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

I second Trey's reason. And I just think it: A. Draws more attention (not that we want too much) to the favicon than the current one does. B. Tells people right away (as does the logo) that we're a wiki about Homestar Runner, and C. ...I just think it looks better than the current. DevonM(talk·cont-ribs) 00:58, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Favicons aren't supposed to draw attention, they are mainly used you quickly identify the target of a link/bookmark. For me, the kamikaze version works extremely well due to the similarity to our logo. I was skeptical about a change, but seeing the kamikaze icon in action convinced me. It's very efficient, and it looks great. Loafing 01:20, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Oh my gosh! I was gone for a few hours and this whole discussion roars into motion! Is Dot Com a magnet or something?Thanks everyone for giving us your opinions. After seeing the favis in action, I'm really leaning towards the kamikazes. I agree with everything Loafing just said and love Devon's improvements, so if we can get the information across to the fanstuff, forum, and IRC, and they all can live with it, we'll be set! -Brightstar Shiner 01:58, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

After seeing both, I do agree that the W leaves me scratching my head wondering what it could mean. The background and font just aren't enough. Homestar Kamikaze (why is it called that, anyway?) seems to be the winner though I don't like Devon's changes. I'm far too picky to try anything on my own, though. And no matter what we end up with, I think I'll be disappointed with the limitations of the 16x16 size. <sigh> OptimisticFool 02:06, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, it looks like the favicon's up (I hope its not another test...). It looks way better up in my address bar than on the wiki page, I'm surprised to say. DevonM(talk·cont-ribs) 02:10, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Kamikaze refers to the bold sun ray design of the Japanese war flags during WWII, which our logo's background resembles, btw. -Brightstar Shiner 02:11, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

The Homestar Kamikaze seems to be the favorite so far. Before we make our final determination, everyone should open up about a dozen or so tabs of wiki pages so you can get the full effect of how it looks when you're actually working on something. For the Homestar version, it's a lot of Homestar, and I just want to make sure we're cool with that. — It's dot com 20:13, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

I still prefer the W favicon, as I think it looks more professional, but I wouldn't protest if the Homestar one would be chosen. — Elcool ^(talk)_(contribs) 20:30, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

I have looked a little into the new favicons, and here's what I think: E.L. Cool has a point, the "W" looks cleaner and a little more professional. However, the Kamikaze one has more personality, and expresses more what this wiki is about. Not only that, seeing a whole bunch of Kamikaze Icons in a list of tabs looks much more pleasing to the eyes than tabs full of W icons. --Stux 20:38, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

I'd like to float around a bunch of the different colors/designs to really see how I feel about the whole set.. (the screenshots are of a browser I've never used and they don't quite have that "live" feel). But since I really only bother with the main wiki, I guess I don't know why that would make a difference for me. I've seen the flood of Homestars b/w blue on my tabs in IE and it doesn't bother me a bit. One question I have, though.. do the users of the forum, the fanstuff wiki, etc. know about this conversation? OptimisticFool 20:56, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

I talked to to the fanstuff people a bit, but it's still too early to inform everyone since we haven't decided yet. -Brightstar Shiner 21:02, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

[Edit conflict] Some of them do. This decision is being made by the Admins overseeing all of hrwiki.org, not by the knowledge base per se. Incidentally, the forum doesn't even have a favicon at the moment. — It's dot com 21:05, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Oh yeah, I was wondering. Are we strongly opposed to having variations on the kamikaze for the sister sites? I'm not sure if we want so much of one image (albeit with color differences) and the fanstuff has Strong Bad in their logo and they've tossed around the idea of 1-up instead of Homestar. There seem to be contradicting opinions about this, but I think we could go through with it in some shape or form. -Brightstar Shiner 22:07, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

So, are we done here? And if so, do we move on to talking about the future of the Fanstuff's logo? And if so, what kind of powers do you have? OptimisticFool 01:56, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

I believe so. Wow...yeah, where do we go next? Should we change the fanstuff, forum, and IRC favicons to the blue H*R, or are we gonna' go with the quadruple-threat of the different colored favicons? I think we should open up a new "thread" (for lack of wiki definitions) about this. DevonM(talk·cont-ribs) 02:40, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

The other favicons will be taken care of in time, and decided upon by the people who need to do so. In other words, we don't need another thread. — It's dot com 21:02, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The Other Favicons

As far as I know, the favicon issue for the Knowledge Base is over. We should change the ones for the fanstuff, forum, and IRC, but there seem to be more pressing problems than this, so it can happen whenever, I suppose. When we do change them, I think they should be of different colors, since trouble telling the sites apart was one of the reasons we switched the favicon here in the first place. -Brightstar Shiner 15:46, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, when the new fanstuff wiki opens in August, it'll have the different icon. JCM 14:37, 26 June 2008 (UTC)