Talk:Decemberweenvent Calendar

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Revision as of 07:21, 15 December 2022 by 135.180.110.139 (Talk)
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New picture every day

  1. Keep it up to date
  2. That was not the same picture, but lower quality, it was lower quality, but the 2 was lit up as well as the 1.

So with those 2 reasons, that's why we should update the picture every day. ----J∃ffJMan 17:17, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

Ah, I missed the 2 lit up. You should try again with a better file. The size should not be smaller than its appearance on the official site as shown on desktop, and it needs a real filename. If there are going to be 24 of these, "TwitterDay2" isn't descriptive enough. I also notice you upload a lot of files that are all lowercase and have no spaces, which are hard to read. There's no reason to put that kind of limitation on uploaded files. I suggest something easy to read like "Decemberweenvent Calendar Cover Day 2". — It's dot com 20:51, 2 December 2022 (UTC)
Or we could just use that handy "Upload new version of file" button, and, well, upload new version of file every day, instead of uploading new files. That's what I did. - HoveringSombrero (talk) File:Shoulder shoomps.jpg
If the only goal is to have the image display the latest version (which it may be), then that works, but that's not a good solution if we ever intend to refer to any version other than the current one. I'm not saying we shouldn't overwrite the image each day, just that we should consider whether overwriting or uploading new images makes the most sense before we get too far into the month. — It's dot com 23:27, 2 December 2022 (UTC)
Upload each image separately, and then update the page each day. When the calendar month is over, create a gallery of all images. (Do you think by the time the calendar is finished, an archive of all the days will be made available?) -- 68.37.43.131 00:14, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
We could do that, but would it be worthwhile? I'm thinking no. I'm betting the only difference between the images from day to day will be that the next number is lit up. — It's dot com 01:52, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
Each sheet music page should be uploaded in my opinion, but to be clear, the image we're talking about is this image that shows the cover. The numbers being lit up is a very minor difference and new versions of the cover being uploaded under the same filename should suffice. DEI DAT VM┌datvm center\super contra┘ 15:10, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

Peanuts-style Jazz Version

For those who may not be aware, @StrongBadActual has been promoting a fan-made smooth jazz version of the advent songs. I think these should be documented somewhere but I'm not quite sure where and how. For now I'm documenting them here. Please feel free to add to the list as more gets published and/or copy them to an appropriate location. --Stux 17:18, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

Here is the list (user info: @trott, mastodon via 1):

There are now other renditions promoted by @StrongBadActual:

Hi. I'm the person making those jazz versions. Thanks for caring enough to track them! "Smooth jazz" probably isn't the right label. Smooth jazz refers to artists like Kenny G and Grover Washington Jr., but this is (I hope, at least) more like West Coast jazz generally and Vince Guaraldi and the Peanuts soundtracks specifically. Would it be too awkward to label it "Vince Guaraldi-style versions" or "Peanuts-style version" or "Charlie Brown-style version" something like that? — 135.180.110.139 (Talk | contribs) 18:30, 4 December 2022 (left unsigned)
Section headers are editable by anyone, so feel free to make it whatever you think best fits. — It's dot com 20:14, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
Wow, I think it's pretty cool that I'm having a direct conversation with the composer! These interpretations are pretty neat and enjoyable. I actually called it "Smooth Jazz" rather carelessly, not realizing it's an actual style. I've updated the topic to "Peanuts-style" per your comment above; primarily because your Day 4 rendition brought the Peanuts style theme front-and-center. Unfortunately, I think it sort of overshadowed the Caleb Rentpayer theme itself a little. Nevertheless, I hope you're planning to keep these up. If so, I'm looking forward to the rest! --Stux 20:49, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
@Gfdgsgxgzgdrc can indeed verify that he is User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc. (I posted the remix in the HRWiki Discord before Twitter, if that helps) Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 01:51, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
Unfortunately, I don't have discord installed for various reasons so I don't have access to that channel and I don't know anything about that. But others do. That should be enough if others can confirm. --Stux 12:18, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

What is the KOT doing on day 1

When I originally described the visual for day 1, I said that the King of Town was crying. I chose that because the song is literally about Everybody and they're all shown palling around in groups, except for the king, who is alone. This fits with his general character. It's also been suggested that that he's holding his belly in laughter. A third choice is that he's sweating or something. I don't know what the deal is with his tongue. — It's dot com 01:23, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

I see it a hearty laughter personally Guybrush20X6 01:52, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
I would agree with DC's interpretation that he's crying as it does fit with his general character. I might go a step further and suggest that he's doing his usual sad laughter "oooo hooo hooo!" kind of thing. A problem I see is that he's sticking his tongue out, which is unusual for crying, but it's also sort of unusual for laughter. For all we know, he could be having some sort of medical emergency? Okay, now I'm somewhat stumped. Perhaps the visual should just describe what we see and maybe note the uncertainty in interpretation? --Stux 09:01, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
”The King of Town stands alone with his arms across his chest, with what are presumably droplets of liquid of some sort emanating from his general head area”.-113.37.226.89 10:59, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
Perfect.
I updated it to say that he's "moved to tears with some emotion." That seemed descriptive without taking a firm stance on whether he's happy or sad. — It's dot com 16:46, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

Far side

Far side has at least 3 direct references. Should it get a page? -126.254.213.245 08:10, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

A quick search seems to indicate that it might indeed warrant a page. --Stux 11:47, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

Soup can The Homestar Runner - possible Original Book reference?

The Homestar Runner's "soup" shirt on day 5 is most obviously a reference to Can of Water Soup. I think it could also be a reference to the final page of the Original Book. In the Strongest Man in the World DVD commentary, they remark that the drawing "make[s] Homestar's body look like a soup can", referring to how the angle shows the 'inside' of his torso - much like the drawing of The Homestar Runner. In addition, the illustration shows THR crossing his legs like in the storybook while his dance in 20X6 vs. 1936 does not include crossing his legs. Worth mentioning, or too much of a reach? -- Bleu Ninja 01:13, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

Something different every day

When Strong Bad says "Just so you know, I'm not gonna, like, say something different every day" on days 7 and 8, I could swear the inflection is slightly different, especially on the word "something." Maybe it'll be a running gag that will be really obvious tomorrow, or maybe I'm imagining it. I didn't want to mention it in the article unless somebody else agreed they could hear a difference. — It's dot com 06:25, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

That's what I heard. —203.109.222.90 06:38, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
It’s definitely meant to be a gag.-113.37.226.89 07:24, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
Yeah, he's saying the exact word "something" different every day. 22 years later and his troll game is still on point. Guybrush20X6 10:14, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
Aaaand just to put a bow on it, it's really obvious today. — It's dot com 05:48, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Calendar Template

Hi everyone, I created the following calendar template: {{DecemberweenventEntry}} for use in the Calendar table in this page as seen here. I made this for two reasons:

  1. Ease of maintenance of table items and the table as whole.
  2. maintain consistency across each table row.
  3. Bundle up more complex items (such as {{hcount}}) which will be necessary once day 10 comes around.
  4. Add links to related twitter posts.

I probably could've converted the whole table but so far I only converted the first row (Day 1) to use the template. I wanted to gauge its reception. Please let me know what you think! --Stux 00:03, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Lol, by the time I typed all this, table was already converted. I'll take that as positive response ;). --Stux 00:05, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
Yeah I tested the template on all the days to make sure it could handle the extra line breaks and links that some days have, and when I was done, I was like, well, I've got all this code converted, I might as well save it. Good thinking on the template! — It's dot com 00:40, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
Is there any way to make the layout of the table itself display a bit better? I don't have any good ideas offhand, but it seems like a lot of the columns, especially on the left side, have a bunch of top and bottom white space, while some, like description, are kind of vertically packed. Is there a way to have each day have two rows, maybe? Just thinking out loud.
We could do separate rows, but then it wouldn't be sortable. Despite the whitespace, I think one row per day is visually clean and easy to scan. I think it's fine how it is. — It's dot com 06:07, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Art-Style

What is the style of the art in the little pictures based off of? Generic kid stuff or something specific? --Cy4nIsN0tB1u3 01:30, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

According to the description on our Calendar section, it loosely resembles Alfred's Basic Piano. — It's dot com 01:33, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
I added that! Someone on twitter pointed it out, and my sister sort of confirmed it when she also pointed out it resembled some weird piano books she used to play. ----J∃ffJMan 10:34, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
The style is very clearly based on the Bastien series. / see here.
That makes way more sense, I'll add it. ----J∃ffJMan 12:57, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
With regards to this edit, User:Jeffjman originally mentioned that the art style originally resembled Alfred's Basic Piano. How close was the resemblance? Is it possible that this is more of a generic art style for beginner's/children's piano books or does Bastien much more closely resemble the Dweenvent Calendar than Alfred's? Are there samples of Alfred's online we can use for comparison? It would be ideal to state this as accurately as possible. --Stux 13:13, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
I think that it more resembles Bastien's. It's a bit more unhinged than Alfred's. However, I am not super familiar with either, so really someone who is should add to this discussion. ----J∃ffJMan 18:47, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

Smells Like Peanut Key

The key of the "Smells Like Peanut Action" sheet music is actually somewhat ambiguous, having none of the pitches that distinguish C major from C minor. Should this be noted as "C major" anyway (since there are no flats given), or just as "C" because of the ambiguity (since no other sheet music has key signatures regardless of their key)? DEI DAT VM┌datvm center\super contra┘ 19:06, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

It's not C minor. If you play chords along with it, E-flat just doesn't seem to work. That said, I think it may actually be F major, especially after listening to the jazz version. I'm gonna go ahead and update the article, because I'm pretty sure C major is wrong, but I'd welcome corrections by active musicians, as it has been many years since I took theory. — It's dot com 19:44, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
And now I see that I actually thought it was F major when I originally added it yesterday. I stand by that. Even if it's not, I definitely don't think the tonic is C. — It's dot com 19:51, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
Hmm, I'm having a difficult time hearing the tonic as F even in the jazz version; I hear it more as modulating between F for the Smells Like Teen Spirit sections and C for the Smells Like Peanut Action parts. The melody of Peanut Action beginning and ending on C makes me lean towards that as the tonic as well. But I am definitely not a music major and I'd welcome others' opinions as well. DEI DAT VM┌datvm center\super contra┘ 21:04, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
I think that last bit is just a riff. Listen to Strong Bad's intro music in action figure. That ends on an F. Also, if the song were just four bars long, I can feel the G wanting to resolve to an F to finish the phrase.
I propose removing the key column entirely. My thinking is that the information it provides is not particularly useful. Furthermore, a lot of the current entries are subject to low-value nit-picking. (For example, "Lydian" and "melodic minor" are not keys. They are scales. But for the purposes of this wiki, do we care?) But most importantly, the key for some melodies here is ambiguous and we shouldn't try to provide an answer, at least in those cases. "Smells Like Peanut Action" is a good example. It's a melody that could be harmonized in different keys or even given a harmonization that is itself ambiguous. Without more chords, it's hard to say what key it's in. And even if we do manage to come to consensus on that, what is the value of that information? Anyone who wants to know the key can look at the music and make their own determination. Anyone who can't do that probably isn't going to be helped by a column that says "F major" or whatever. (FWIW, I'm the person that created the jazz version, and that version is indeed F major, although it switches to F minor at the end for the Nirvana melody and piano solo, but F major was a choice I made and not something that is inherent in that melody, at least in my opinion. D minor would have been a good choice too. C major is possible. Even G major could be made to work. The melody alone just doesn't carry sufficient information to say it inherently has a key.)

Links

I split the Song column into the Title and Origin columns to avoid piped links (or nearly so). The links were never strictly origins; each one was just the page that gave info on the song, and in a lot of cases there was no specific article and so it defaulted to the song's origin. I later changed the header to Origin/Info to reflect this. We could make them all origins (although I would point out that "Everybody, Everybody" did not originate in the Old New Intro), but we should consider what the point of the links are. Also I don't think there should be links in the titles, because that's a display column. — It's dot com 04:52, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

yeah the current links are more informative than strictly the originating toons.-126.254.150.125 05:04, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
Wouldn’t it make sense to have both though? Having a single column that only has some of the origins seems kind of strange, to me at least. I don’t see much of a problem with having links in the titles, it seems more intuitive. TheOneAndOnlyDanky 16:14, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
I think it took me a good night's sleep to properly understand the intent behind the split and why the links are what they are. This might be obvious to some but just in case: the "Title" field simply repeats the title found in the music sheet (which can be easily seen in the sheet's image). While the "origin/info" field presents and links to information related to the song itself and its origin.
Originally the link was embedded into the title but it kinda went against the principle of least astonishment, where the link and text should align closely. While not official HRWiki policy, this idea is reflected on the big wiki here: MOS:EGG and here WP:PLA and I think this had been referenced recently. So, splitting the title and links allows us to just present the title of the song and keep information about the song itself in a separate column where the link and the text closely match each other.
Now, I think this covers the "why", which if I hadn't made it clear before, with this perspective I now support the split. What remains is the "How" and I think this is where a part of the disagreement lies and is an important topic of discussion. From the first few days I felt one of the links was lacking, specifically Day two (Stave it off) linked to the Stave It Off Guy page instead of for kids where it now links. I think the issue is that we're lacking in specific articles and/or sections for these songs!
This can be clearly seen in the difference between the links for Day 1 and Day 2. As illustrated above, the Stave It Off Guy page makes no mention of the song itself. For that you need to read the for kids page where the song is buried in the transcript. Contrast that with Day 1, which links to Everybody Everybody#The song which is an anchor link but at least provides information about the song (and while not obvious, links to Old New Intro on the first bullet point).
So, to summarize this second item: I think we need to either create pages for these songs or add sections describing these songs where appropriate and link to that in the origin section. Moreover, already-existing sections should be proofread and fleshed out as necessary: such as adding explicit origin information for Everybody Everybody since the first bullet point lists four different intros first. They seem to be listed chronologically but that's not obvious at a glance. Not even by visiting their respective pages.
This is probably a somewhat significant undertaking, and it's not work I typically perform myself, but I think this would be the better approach towards this issue. --Stux 17:27, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
It's really obvious when you put it like that. We should make articles for every song. Once that's done, the title and info columns can be re-merged and the links put back on the titles. (The principle of least astonishment was indeed what I was wanting to achieve with the split; I just didn't know it had a name.) — It's dot com 18:11, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
Thank you very much DC for creating the new pages! I think this page and its related topics are shaping up nicely! :) (I was already familiar with the principle of least astonishment but in the context of wiki links, I only ran into it recently. I was lucky enough to find the relevant pages due to that.) --Stux 22:58, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
There's a similar (and, coincidentally, more relevant to the theme) Wikipedia project page that's recently been a favourite of mine: WP:EASTEREGG. RickTommy (edits) 23:12, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
Ah! So there were two similar topics! I think I've seen the EASTEREGG one before but I found MOS:EGG instead. The former linked to the latter but not vice-versa. I went ahead and fixed that there. Thanks for this new link! --Stux 13:27, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

Everyday vs Every day

"Everyday" means daily while "every day" means "each day" and is usually followed by something like "of the week". The grammar is correct. Wolf O'Donnel 08:15, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

"Everyday" is an adjective, and it's not being used as such in this context. Its usage here is equivalent to "New H*R sheet music frequent!". Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 09:07, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
And just to complete the thought, "every day" is an adverb. Here it answers the question when. When will there be new sheet music? Every day. — It's dot com 18:19, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Running time

Hey how is the running time being determined, both for the individual days and the total running time? Is an individual day's time the amount of time it would take to listen to the intro, the song for that day, or both? Is the total running time the amount of time it would take to watch all the intros and listen to all the songs, or is it the amount of time it would take to watch the entire SWF file for only the most recent day, or something else? The total running time was updated twice today, and neither value corresponds to the sum of the individual days. (As a reader I think I'd expect the individual day's time to represent both the intro and that day's song, and the total time to be the sum of the individual days.) — It's dot com 23:35, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

I think things got a bit confused when the intros and songs were split and there was only one intro per day, but now they're all together it should be easier to compile them as a grand total, one that can include the extra asides like Strong Sad appreciating the one song in Minor key and the Snagglepuss Commandos. Guybrush20X6 12:48, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
I've been wondering if the total would remain accurate and considered having the template add up the total automatically (at least for verification). I thought we'd dome something similar elsewhere but I don't remember where. I was also thinking that perhaps the time information could be split by category (and again summed up automatically), but Guybrush20X6 makes a good point that it's okay to sum up everything together. Still, a split might not be a bad idea either. --Stux 13:09, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

What's under the chocolate smudge?

I was watching the retweet of Day 11 when it dawned on me: What's under the chocolate smudge? There's obviously red stuff but I thought those were pieces of strawberry. But if you look closely near the bottom, there seems to be something drawn there, colored in red crayon I think. --Stux 12:19, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

Maybe it's the shell of an M & M? Guybrush20X6 12:31, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
I’m pretty sure it’s just pieces of a red foil wrapper. As in, the chocolate was still in the wrapper when it was smashed. -113.37.226.89 15:45, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
That actually makes sense, 113.37.226.89! Near the bottom I saw what looked like a drawn tail that wasn't colored but looking at it again it seems to be the silver-colored inside of the foil! While the outside is red. Excellent Detective work! Now to figure out what brand and kind of candy it was! (j/k ;) ). Okay maybe not so much kidding: the foil reminds me of a hershey's kiss, but it's too big for that relative to what I expect to be the size of the paper. So I think the picture is digitally added. I don't suppose the decompile would reveal a pristine page of sheet music? --Stux 15:59, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
When I wrote the image description, I called it a wrapper. I also think it's a milk chocolate red Christmas Hershey's kiss but I didn't want to speculate in the article. — It's dot com 17:25, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
Decompiled it out of curiosity - it does in fact have a pristine page of sheet music underneath, but the obscured measure only has a four-beat rest so technically "nothing" is being obscured. Looking a little more closely there does appear to be something besides just chocolate (it's lighter/golden brown... caramel? nougat?) but nothing clear enough to determine what the candy is. My guess is it's just a generic-brand Christmas candy. -- Bleu Ninja 18:28, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
Nice. As long as we've got that image, we'd might as well use it in the article. I added it to the relevant remark. — It's dot com 19:49, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
This is all kinds of awesome :). Nice job with the Decompile Bleu Ninja! Now, as for the lighter/golden brown stuff I think that's just a thinner coating of chocolate letting some of the silver foil shine through. So I think chocolate is the only candy ingredient. With that in mind, I'm still inclined to believe DC's theory that it's a milk chocolate red Christmas Hershey's kiss. Too bad it's not a red Trogador with a beefy chocolate arm! That's where I'd fail my Rorschach test. --Stux 22:53, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

TGS page images

This TGS page could actually have 3 images. The main one, the Gregs one, and the initial, normal style one. -113.37.226.89 15:24, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

You're right. I added it. Thanks for pointing it out. — It's dot com 18:38, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

Melodies and harmonies

I'm not exactly sure how to address it in the article but I want to go ahead and note it here so we can think about it. Several (most? all?) of the songs without lyrics don't include the melody. "Everybody, Everybody" for sure is just the counterpoint. I haven't gone through all of them methodically yet to say exactly what's going on (someone else would be better qualified to do that anyway), but this should be noted somewhere, probably as a remark. It also means that in at least a couple of cases we're being too hard on them in the goofs. For example, the item where it says that the word "and" doesn't correspond to a note—that is true, but also the lyrics are for the melody, which isn't being played (as opposed to the harmony, which is), so it's not really a goof. — It's dot com 01:04, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, none of the “these lyrics don’t line up with notes” ones are goofs. -113.37.226.89 05:31, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
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