HRWiki talk:Subtitles/Archive 2

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Current | Archive 1 (1-20) | Archive 2 (21-40) | Archive 3 (41-60)

Contents 1 Cleanup Templates 2 Problematic 3 Subtitle Template 4 Bravo 5 Volunteer? 6 200! 7 Broke? 8 Anyone else having a problem? 9 Question about the translations 10 XML feed tech question/proposal 11 300! 12 External Viewer 13 Syncronisation 14 Is the Progress Count Off? 15 100% 16 To Preeeeoow or not to Preeeeoow? 17 External Viewer — New Version 18 Answering Machine Ver. 5 ain't done yet! 19 Adding Subtitles section and other Issues 20 Uhh...

[edit] Cleanup Templates

It seems many subtitle pages are being created with a cleanup template from the get-go. According to Category:Articles needing cleanup, "After adding this template to the beginning of the article, add a clear comment on the corresponding talk page indicating what you think should be done." But invariably, there are no comments whatsoever on the Talk page. This makes it unclear to anyone else what precisely needs the cleanup. It could be grammar, it could be framecounts, it could be a number of things, and it's a little unhelpful to expect someone to comb through it later to see what's needing cleanup. Can we all agree to take this extra step when using the template? - Qermaq - (^T/C)  14:43, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, but we don't need them on the subtitles page. I mean if it's just grammar, then they can fix it, right?--H*Bad 14:57, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, if it just a grammatical error, then the person who noticed it clearly has some fluency in the language. It's possible, I suppose, that someone might know it's wrong but not know how to fix it. If a person is fluent enough to fix it, the template is misused in that case. Then again, it's possible the template's misused in the first example - normally we use the cleanup template on articles which are a pretty big mess. In these cases, the language might be poorly translated, but it's likely at least intelligeable to a speaker of that language even if it's laughable. So perhaps this is an inappropriate use of the template; but if it is an appropriate usage, then it's still important to post on the Talk as to why you've placed it there. - Qermaq - (^T/C)  15:06, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Problematic

I encountered a problem while watching the english-subtitled different town. Despite the fact that their character names were all labeled correctly, subtitles for Homestar, Strong Mad, Strong Sad, and Coach Z all appeared white, as though they were labeled as "other". · · T²|_Things 23:42, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

This probably means that you have switched the colours off. In the settings of the All-In-One Greasemonkey script, there is an option "use colours" at the bottom. You need to check that. The name labels will disappear, and the colours will return. Loafing 09:03, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Subtitle Template

I think a template should be made that tells if a toon/game/etc. has subtitles, and tells which languages it is availiable in. - X On Fire (SSX) 23:07, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

We're 1 step ahead of you. Add {{subtitlesLinks|filename}} at the bottom of an article, and a list of available subtitles appears on the left hand menu column. Check the 1 step ahead article to see how it works. Loafing 23:13, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bravo

I've been third-party to this since it started, but I've been watching a few toons, and I really like what I see. As this project matures, I gotta say that this is definitely worthy of a Main Page service announcement and more to get the word out. Keep on building! —BazookaJoe 00:37, 25 September 2006 (UTC) (PS: Can somebody add a sfx line to Subtitles:sickday/en for SB's prolonged groan before calling for The Paper? I thought it needed it, but I'm too lazy to do this myself. Thanks.)

[edit] Volunteer?

I think we should set up some method of volunteering to do certain subtitles, because too often have I begun work on a subtitle, only to realize that it's already finished by someone else! If we set up some kind of volunteer board/thingy, then everyone would know what subtitles are in-the-making, which ones are done, and which ones need to be finished. If we do get it up, I volunteer for rock opera. · · T²|_Things 23:54, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

So like a pegboard? And we put our name in saying we got dibs on the toon? This would have the problem of being abused, you see. Consider the "in progress" template - people put it on and forget to take it off when they're done, while others freely edit even though it's there. I mean, so long as no one's paying attention to policy to begin with, what's the use of MORE red tape no one's going to pay attention to? - Qermaq - (^T/C)  00:06, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

(Edit Conflict) The problem with those volunteer boards is that people often don't stick to their promises and block a task for everybody else. The way we've done it so far, is the same it's being done everywhere else on the wiki: If you start working on a subtitle script, you add the {{inprogress}} template at the top, and when you finish, you remove the template. That way, we make sure, that only one person is subtitling the same toon at a time. Please note that you should only have that template on the page while you are actually working on it. If you take a longer break or go to bed, you should remove it. Loafing 00:15, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 200!

Wheee! We've reached 200 English subtitles scripts :-) 211 even! If I have counted correctly, there are 125 toons left to be subtitled, 27 of which are sbemails. We also have got 44 French scripts now. Way to go! You girls and guys rock! Keep it coming :-D Loafing 05:38, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Broke?

For some reason I can't view the subtitles when they're supposedly on. What's wrong? --Trogga 01:21, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Works for me. Did you clear your cache? Which toon did you try to watch? What's the last error messages on the Javscript Console (in Ffx's Tools menu) after it fails? Loafing 01:38, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

I also can't see the subtitle button. --Trogga 01:41, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

No problems here. --68.201.124.72 01:48, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Try the following: 1) Tools - Manage User Scripts - Uninstall Homestar All-In-One. 2) Restart Firefox. 3) Go to User:Phlip/Greasemonkey and reinstall the script. 4) Again, restart Firefox. 5) Check the Preferences. Be sure mission-critical things are checked, like "show seek bar", "shpw subtitles" etc. are checked. The only things I have unchecked are the full-screen option, upside-down, plain HTML, and test subtitles. If all that fails, leave a note on Phlip's Talk, he's sure to want to be aware of it. - Qermaq - (^T/C)  03:25, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but don't forget to include the answers to my questions, or he's not going to be able to help you. Loafing 04:04, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

To be more specific, go Tools→Javascript Console, and hit Clear. Then load up a page on Homestar Runner. If any error messages appear in the console, right-click→copy and paste them here. --phlip ^T_C 05:55, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Here's the error message I got:

Error: Node was not found
Source File: 
Line: 387
Source Code:
387

--Trogga 15:06, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Anyone else having a problem?

I can't get the subtitles to work again. Anybody else having the same problem? It says loading and then doesn't load them.-- »Bleed0range« 07:49, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

I thought the characters page was messed up so I tried to fix it, if it is then I couldn't figure out what was wrong or maybe this is just me.-- »Bleed0range« 07:55, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

I think the wiki went down briefly or something. It took a while to load for me, anyway. Shwoo 08:00, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, it works now. Oh well. I think it did need </speaker> in there that was missing. Don't know if that would make the entire thing go down.-- »Bleed0range« 08:02, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, if the characters page is broken — for example because of a missing closing tag — then the subtitles won't display. Loafing 08:23, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Question about the translations

I'm not sure why I'm asking this since I don't speak another language well enough to translate the subtitles, but shouldn't written things be subtitled as well? Written things that aren't spoken, I mean. Because I noticed that the Spanish subtitles for The Cheat's character just say "The Cheat noises" in Spanish, and I don't think that's hugely informative.—Shwoo 03:23, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Good point. The Cheat's character page is a special case... Loafing 22:10, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] XML feed tech question/proposal

From a content editors point of view, it would be convienent to omit the 'end' attribute on 'line' and allow such omission to indicate 'end = next.start'.

Looking at the userscript, it actually doesn't seem to complicate things too much. I think it can be taken care of in the transcriptLoaded() callback, while iterating over each line element, there is this existing code:

// ignore lines with missing start/end values
// so you can add all the lines and not worry about timing them until later
if (!lines[i].getAttribute("start") || !lines[i].getAttribute("end"))
	continue;
line.start = parseInt(lines[i].getAttribute("start"), 10);
line.end = parseInt(lines[i].getAttribute("end"), 10);

I think the 'end' attribute can be optional — if and only if the very next line element has a satisfactory 'start' attribute — with something like:

// ignore lines with missing start/end values
// so you can add all the lines and not worry about timing them until later
// allow undefined end values to look ahead to next siblings start value,
// if it exists
if (!lines[i].getAttribute("start"))
	continue;
line.start = parseInt(lines[i].getAttribute("start"), 10);
if (!lines[i].getAttribute("end"))
	if (i+1 < lines.length)
                if (!lines[i+1].getAttribute("start"))
		        continue;
                else
		        line.end = parseInt(lines[i+1].getAttribute("start"), 10);
	else
                continue;
else
	line.end = parseInt(lines[i].getAttribute("end"), 10);

End result, 'line.end' is sure to be defined (either explicitly as it is now, or inferred from the 'start' of the next line element), or the iteration continues (same as it did before).

I haven't tried this out yet (I will tomorrow). Wanted to throw the idea out while it was fresh in my mind though. —BryanCTC 10:33, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Dropping the end attribute where possible is a good idea. This should work especially well with Strong Bad's sbemail monologues. And it would force me to finally update the external viewer (which has been displaying subtitles differently from the official version for months now ;-). I'm not too sure about the possibility of having lines without a start attribute, though. We will at least have to display a warning that there are errors in the subtitles - which is basically what we do now. What do you think, Phlip? Loafing 11:01, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I'm not suggesting no start attribute, I think that's a must. But yeah, for the end attr, in the limited editing I've done I typically want to leave the subtitle up until the next one, giving people ample reading time... unless there is a very long silence (not often), or if the silence is a notable part of the composition/comedic effect (important sometimes).

Note that in my changes above - everything happens before any of the error detection is done.

Aside: The above change (presuming it works), could even allow for end attributes along the lines of "-2" (e.g. "end" 2 frames before the next "start"). I've not really wanted that, but it could be handy for tweaking timings. Anyway, one step at a time =) —BryanCTC 11:25, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

This seems to work ok hacked together for testing. —BryanCTC 01:25, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 300!

We're getting there! With over 300(!!) English subtitles scripts, we have so far subtitled 92% of all toons that can be subtitled. The gaps in the list are closing, and only the MAM toons seem to go slow. If we keep up the pace (Alas, Shwoo went back to school.), we should finish all toons before Decemberween. Good jorb, everybody! Loafing 10:43, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm going through MAM's and stubbing them. I was going to complete mam2, but it actually seems a lot easier to operate in "stub" mode and just make the transcripts XML'd! in one go, and then go back and break up the lines with timings in a second pass. Less switching mental gears.

—BryanCTC 11:38, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I stopped because exams are coming up. If there's any more subtitles left to do next week after exams finish, I'll do some more then. —Shwoo 05:10, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Double-yay! :-) Loafing 05:35, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] External Viewer

I have finally updated the external viewer so that it can handle the "new" subtitles format (the one we've been working with for the last few months). Could you folks please try it out and see if you can spot any bugs? It would also be good to know which browsers work and which don't. Post your results here, and I'll see if I can fix those bugs ;-) Loafing 09:25, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Hey Loafing. I was checking out the updated external viewer, and the sbemail menu doesn't load at all. :/ - The Joe^(Talk) 14:52, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Hey The Joe, the transcript element in the subtitles did not have a file attribute. I fixed it. Loafing 20:53, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

I could not make it work with Internet Explorer 7 Beta 3. Would be great if someone with an actual release version could try it out. Loafing 00:08, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

It won't work with Mozilla Firefox 1.0.7. Y2K () 06:16, 14 February 2007 (UTC) — 138.130.37.153 (Talk | contribs) 06:16, 14 February 2007 (left unsigned)

Hmm, is there a reason why you have such an old version? Loafing 06:51, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

I was using my dad's computer. Once he downloaded Firefox, he never upgraded. --144.136.124.15 05:40, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

None of them seem to load in SeaMonkey. If it matters, I'm using the 1.5 nightlies in Debian. I'll reboot into Windows (where I've got the latest release installed — random web pages would crash the Linux release hard for me) and report back on working state in a bit. — User:ACupOfCoffee@ 07:24, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

That's a no-go on SeaMonkey 1.1.1 on Win XP Pro. — User:ACupOfCoffee@ 07:39, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

I guess it's for the same reason it's broken for Firefox 2. :-/ Hopefully, SeaMonkey will be fixed when I fix Ffx2. Whenever that will be. Loafing 07:41, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Now if only there was a way to install Greasemonkey in SeaMonkey. — User:ACupOfCoffee@ 06:06, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

So what's the status on all the viewers? Are they all broken? Partially broken? I am curious to know, currently, what works with what? I think it would be useful to have some sort of informal survey as to what works with what. A table similar to:

Operating System / Browser	Greasemonkey	Loafing's Viewer
Firefox 1.5	Should work	Flawlessly
Firefox 2.0	Notta chance!	You'd like it if it did, wouldn't you?
Safari	Nope, sorry, try again	Perhaps
IE 6/7
Seamonkey in Linux
Seamonkey in Windows

Something like that. Anyway, the reason I bring it up is twofold: first it seems like both methods are broken and at least one of these methods should be up and running soon, and second I've noticed that we're trying to encourage people to use the GS script more than Loafing's Viewer. However, as I understanding, the viewer would only work with Firefox (and maybe mozilla?) thus limiting the audience that can view thes subtitles. I would prefer if we encouraged the platform-independent script to be used instead. I am sorry I can't help more with the technical aspects of getting either to work. --Stux 13:30, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Good idea, I like the survey. I'm curious about that myself ;-) We should wait another day or two, though. I'm currently re-writing the external viewer from scratch to make it compatible with more versions of more browsers. As for the question which viewer we should push, the Greasemonkey script wins hands-down. The external viewer is something extra that I'm keeping to make the subtitles more accessible, but it has several serious drawbacks. The main one being it relying on an external web server. One that will no longer be free once I release the new version of the external viewer. And more precisely one that I will pay for. Whole bunch of other reasons, but that's a big one right there. Loafing 13:51, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Waiting a few days sounds good. (Out of curiosity, I don't know if you noticed a request I'd made. Would that change be implemented into the viewer? As for relying on another server: I assume that your script still loads the original Flash file from HR.com, and all that you really host is the single web page with the JS itself (and no dynamic content). Since this has become a significant wiki project, wouldn't there be a way where your script could be hosted on the wiki (or on fellowsites even). I don't think the script would be a big resource hog in any way. (Open question: Does and/or should this wiki advertise fellowsites anywhere?) --Stux 16:10, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

It's a dynamic php script. And I'm currently not sure if the browser can load the Flash file from homestarrunner.com. The subtitles script may need to serve those as well to get around browser security restrictions. I'll know more after I've finished re-writing the viewer. Loafing 20:52, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Syncronisation

Could somebody else please look at the subtitles for The King of Town DVD Commentary and In Search of the Yello Dello Commentary? About half of the audio of both isn't synced to the video, and I didn't realise it would look different on different computers until just now. —Shwoo 10:10, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

They are fine for me. What seems to happen with these two is that each line (or each couple of lines) they say in the commentary is triggered at a set frame — which is the same for everybody on each computer. The last frame of each line will be different, but not by much, since the unsynched soundbytes are relatively short. So it seems you don't have to worry about those two, they are just fine :-) (yay!) Loafing 10:30, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Is the Progress Count Off?

Before I added the listing for what I want, the total count of toons on the progress meter was 348. However, based on the list of toons, I count 345 — 346 now that I added the newest sbemail. (I'm not counting things that could be subtitled but have no sound — there are six of those). I count 346 toons currently on the list, 22 of which do not exist yet, and there are none tagged stub at the moment. So anyway... what am I missing? (I didn't change the progress meter at all, since my count doesn't jive with what's already there.) —BryanCTC 03:30, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

I might have miscounted the toons. Wouldn't be the first time. I'll recount when I'm back later tonight. Feel free to fix the meter whenever you spot errors. Loafing 03:52, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually... instead of counting what's on the list, I just looked at the count of existing english subtitles (based on the category page which for some reason I can't link to) — it's 327. That would make the total 349 (based on 22 on the list with non-existant pages). Does that mean there are 3 existing subtitle pages that do not appear on that list? —BryanCTC 03:58, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Yep. Subtitles:boredgames/en, Subtitles:sbemail/en and Subtitles:tennis/en are (or, at least, were) all missing from the big list. Incidentally, you can link to a category by: [[:Category:English Subtitles]], which comes out like this. The extra colon tells MW not to handle the link specially (you can do the same thing to link to an image rather than including it in the page). --phlip ^T_C 04:21, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

You're too fast for me. I had just now figured out which 3 were missing and was about to fix it. Well done. —BryanCTC 04:38, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 100%

All the subtitles have been done! This calls for a celebration. Suudsu, anyone? —Shwoo 10:09, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Yay! We're at 100%. That's just amazing :-D Suudsus are on me! Good jorb, everybloody! Big kudos to the sub regulars like Mibluvr13, Shwoo, Bleedy, Bryanc etc. (sorry if I forgot your name, it's a huge project!) . I guess after our lavish party, we should think about cleaning up the subs and doing some quality control. But for now, I'll just run around with a huge smile on my face :-D (and now I'll do a little dance) Loafing 10:19, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Now let's get this freakin' party started! With a little match, and a little fire... I'm on a subtitle high. Is that even healthy? —Shwoo 10:50, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Yay! As someone who saw it grow from nothing (way back when it wasn't even on the Greasmonkey, Loafing hosted is all by himself and the only toon was Cheatar in English and German...) to this wiki-wide project. Wow! Well, I guess it's time to work on my Hebrew translating skills :) — Elcool ^(talk)_(contribs) 15:05, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] To Preeeeoow or not to Preeeeoow?

I've noticed that some subtitles have The Paper's sound effect subtitled, and some don't. I think one should be picked for consistancy. I vote for no sound effect. The Paper doesn't even sound like that. —Shwoo 11:50, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

"Preeeeow" is how TBC describe the sound, on several occasions.

I think that it should be included. It is a hallmark of the sbemails and sometimes jokes are made based on it. —BryanCTC 16:31, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Every important sound effect should be included, and the paper's coming down is definitely important. You have to assume that the person using the subtitles has no sound at all. — It's dot com 18:12, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Loafing 18:47, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

I've argued this before. As It's dot com said, you have to assume the viewer has no ability to hear the audio. This does not mean we include every sound heard in the toon in the subtitles, however. Sound effects essential to the narrative should be included. Sound effects which are not needed to understand the toon should not be included. The sound of The Paper offers no particular information to the reader. Therefore I argue no sound effect. In addition, even if one felt the sound effect was an essential part of the toon, it is accompanied by a visual every time, and as such the sound effect becomes even more unnecessary as the visual part of The Paper serves the same function as the sound. - Qermaq - (^T/C)  00:33, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree as well :-/ Loafing 00:57, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

There are other sound-effects that are even more relevant to some storylines, and we should discuss them here as well. The Geddup Noise and the Chairscoot, for example. I don't believe that it's helpful to include The Geddup Noise in every subtitles script except maybe one or two. The sfx would clutter. Including "preeeow!" is usually easier because nothing else happens when the paper comes down. However, I believe that we should have a common standard for those sound effects. In the end, it will be more helpful to only include them in an email when they are relevant for the story. While this might be perceived as an inconsistency across the subtitles by some viewers, it will keep the subtitles generally clean and easier to read. Loafing 00:57, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

I disagree. So long as actual dialogue doesn't interfere, the geddup noise and the paper noise are important to be included every time they occur (I feel more strongly about the paper). There is usually no other noise surrounding them anyway. If we include them somethetimes but not other times, then I think it would be reasonable for someone who can't hear the toon to conclude that there is silence when it isn't noted, and giving them that impression is inaccurate and unfair. — It's dot com 22:18, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

If someone cannot hear the toon, then the absence of a sfx in the subtitles might very well leave the impression that there is no sound. Is it a mistaken impression? Well, of course. I ask, though, that we consider whether it is relevant. Although these subtitles are not solely for the hearing impaired, let's ask whether a hearing-impaired person is misled substantially by its exclusion. I would suggest that its inclusion is not quite "unfair", as the sfx of The Paper adds nothing of substance to the plot. Additionally, its absence allows the line preceding to remain onscreen longer, which is at times essential for readability. Finally, hearing-impaired people certainly are aware that some things make sounds that they not only cannot perceive but do not really need to perceive. If a hearing-impaired person learned from a friend that The Paper makes this weird sound that isn't noted in the transcript, my assumption would be that they would simply shrug and say, "That's interesting." I doubt they would feel cheated that we failed to spell out the onomatapoea of a sound they cannot hear anyway. In summary, there are no compelling reasons I can see to suggest we need to include it, and at least a few compelling reasons not to. - Qermaq - (^T/C)  22:34, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

How then, we were to not include The Paper's noise, would you explain to a deaf person the "preeeeow" in part-time job and the "PREEEOW!!" in lady fan? I found those jokes funny because I've heard the noise so many times. This is a very compelling reason to include these types of sound in every instance. -- Tom 04:03, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

To clarify, I never said anything about anyone being hearing-impaired. I said someone who can't hear the toon, which includes anyone who has the sound off for whatever reason. When I watch a toon that's been muted, it is a palpable omission if certain sound effects are left out, including the paper. In short, in the back of my mind part of me is wondering if it really was silent, even if I consciously know that the paper must have made a sound because it always does. It seems empty. For the same reason, we subtitle the spoken parts of the email text themselves, even though it would be possible to conclude simply from the fact that the text is on the screen that Strong Bad is probably reading it. The subtitles let me know for sure. — It's dot com 05:02, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

So let me ask: if left to you, what would be the way we would decide which sfx were subtitled and which were not? - Qermaq - (^T/C)  08:24, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] External Viewer — New Version

I'm using Firefox 2.0.0.1 and the subtitles appear, but the Play/Pause buttons etc., don't. Or have you just removed those buttons? --{{User:Y2K/sig}} (forgetting to log in) — 86.212.35.218 (Talk | contribs) 07:39, 24 December 2006 (UTC) (left unsigned)

I'm running the same Firefox version and everything works fine, including pause. (I never had a button marked "play" but perhaps you were speaking generically.) I suggest uninstalling and reinstalling the script. See if that solves the issue. Further questions on it should probably go to the script's talk page. - Qermaq - (^T/C)  09:05, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

That's perfectly fine, the external viewer does no longer have controls for the Flash file. They're gone for several reasons, and people who want nice controls and a seekbar should use the greasemonkey script that Qermaq pointed out :-) Loafing 09:36, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

You see, I was thinking you were referring to the Greasemonkey script, not the external viewer which I doubted anyone using Firefox would even bother with. As Loafing points out, any user who uses Firefox should definitely be running the Greasemonkey script. Users of other browsers should seriously consider installing Firefox even if it's solely for the purpose of viewing H*R toons with the Greasemonkey script. (I have at least 5 browsers installed, and used to have more.) - Qermaq - (^T/C)  09:56, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Answering Machine Ver. 5 ain't done yet!

How come nobody's filling in the frame numbers for the 5th version of Marzipan's Answering Machine? Just one more and the subtitle project will finally be complete! Stop slackin' and get it over with already. There's nothing to it, really. (10 December 2006)

It's hard, it takes a long time... Actually, I was just logging on to do that now. Look at me, I'm working on Christmas Day! Everybody buy me stuff! Yeah, I'm joking. —Shwoo 05:19, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

You go, Shwoo! And as a reply to the anonny: If there's nothing to it, then do it yourself. The subtitles crew has done an amazing job, and nobody's in the position to call them lazy — especially an anonny who probably hasn't done any. Loafing 10:45, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Adding Subtitles section and other Issues

I was going to play around with adding subtitle links to other sections after not finding any but it turns out that you already have a template meant for that, but it doesn't seem to be working!? This section and apparently other sections too, but when I click on these pages the template does not even appear on the source wikicode. Anyway I'll look into that and see if the template can be fixed.

In another matter, I just finished fixing a Spanish translation made for the same aforementioned toon. The subtitles guidelines clearly state that native speakers (or near-native) should be the ones working on the translations, and we should find a way to stress that a little more. However, I really do appreciate having to make minor changes here and these instead of translating from scratch. To that end I want to create a notice for the subtitles that would tag a translation as "incomplete" or in need of verification. (I'll do that shortly.) My only concern is that the inclusion of the template would not allow the subtitling software read it (which I doubt since they all already have a template attached to them). --Stux 17:21, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Update: I have created the following category along with the appropriate templates for tagging translations. The category description itself describes what they are for: there needs to be a way to identify which translations are accurate and which still need a little work. Translators that are not fluent in the translated language must place this template on the translation. That way little things (such as idioms) can be translated correctly by a native speaker. There should be a section in the main page that alludes to this. I guess I should add that shortly. To that end, I plan on adding the template to all French and Spanish translations later in the day, so that, as they are verified, the template is removed from these and "marked off". I might also tag the German translations but I'm guessing E.L.Cool did the Hebrew ones and I know he is a native Hebrew speaker. That's all for now. Please tell me what you think! --Stux 19:00, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Good work with the template! No need to tag the German translations, they were done or proofread by native speakers. About the {{subtitlesLinks}} confusion: The links to the subtitles aren't displayed at the bottom of the page, but on the left hand menu column of each article, under the "external links" box. And you will often not find {{subtitlesLinks}} included directly in an article. For example, it's included in {{sbenav}} etc. It's working just fine, no need to fix it ;-) Loafing 20:20, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! Thanks for the reply! I was wondering what was going on! The code looked right. But I couldn't find the links anywhere, and i knew those had to be interwiki links but I could see the effect anywhere on the page! Like I said in the sandbox, the links are rather inconspicuous if you don't know what you're looking for. It would be nice if there was some way to offer them more prominence or at least mention somehow their existence. Sneaky on the {{sbenav}} inclusion ;) I'm out of practice! And thank you on the template stuff, now i just gotta tag all spanish and french stuff. --Stux 20:29, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Most (if not all) of the French subtitles were done or proofread by Meuhcoin, who is French, just so you know. — It's dot com 20:56, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Edit conflict x2 Okay I'm done for now. I added the template to all spanish translations (except the first one I proofread). I also noticed that almost all french Translations were created or proofread by User:Meuhcoin. It looks very much like he's a native French Speaker, and so I just made sure he had made edits to every single French Translation page out there (which he did). Eventually I will go through the Spanish translations. --Stux 21:00, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Oooh! That's great. Does that mean I can put the Swedish subtitles I translated up on the wiki? My Swedish isn't very good, but it was fun to translate. —Shwoo 01:01, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn't think so, because you just said yourself that your Swedish isn't very good. — It's dot com 01:03, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

One of the big differences between the subtitles and everything else on the wiki is that the people who actually use them will not see {{stub}}, {{cleanup}}, {{fixtranslation}} or other templates. Potentially bad translations or messy subtitles scripts should therefore be avoided. Loafing 01:04, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Oh, okay then. —Shwoo 01:06, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Uhh...

The External Viewer used to work a few days ago, but now it doesn't load anything. I haven't done anything to my computer...help! --Color Printer 12:08, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Same here. 76.184.188.124 16:44, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

This happens to me too! GRRRR! I WANT FIREFOX INSTALLED HERE!!! --Darkangel 21:45, 6 April 2007 (UTC)