HRWiki:STUFF/Archive/keep cool

[edit] Hey There, Dairy Queen

From: keep cool
Posted on: 21:15, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Arguments for:

• The bump (now called a "flip" for the first time) on Strong Sad's head looks a little like the curl on scoops of soft serve.
• Strong Bad called Strong Sad "Dairy Queen" before in Bug In Mouth Disease.
• The easter egg explains it all.

Arguments against:

• No need to mention Dairy Queen.
• Redundant
• We should not explain why Strong Bad calls The Cheat a "cheese" (because he's yellow like some types of cheese with black spots that look like holes in Swiss cheese), or why Homestar calls Pom Pom "roundy-man" (because he's spherical, and that shape is often described as round).
• I'ma have to say no to this fact, as that's the joke.

Additional comments:

• I would support this if Dairy Queen wasn't mentioned.
  • I removed the Dairy Queen reference in the fact.
    • Without the Dairy Queen bit this fact becomes pretty redundant (not that I think DQ should be in there).
• I do wonder if the shape of Strong Sad's head was the source of the "Dairy Queen" joke in Bug In Mouth Disease, though.
  • It's obviously a reference. Dairy Queen is known for it's soft serve ice cream having the "Curly Q," that is their trademark. They used to advertise that more often than they do now, back when Dairy Queen first opened. Strong Sad's head DOES resemble the DQ Vanilla Ice Cream with the Curly Q. This is why Strong Bad originally called him "Dairy Queen," and this is why he speaks of his head as ice cream like once again. So I vote to accept.
    • Perhaps this would be better in the Bug in Mouth page, then?
      • I think you might be right.
• This one completely passed me by. You might as well put it in.

Proposed revision:

Arguments for:

• Shifts the focus from explaining the joke to a connection to a previous toon.
• Implicitly points out SB's comparison of SS's head to ice cream for those who may have missed it.

Arguments against:

• The context is entirely different. In BIMD, Strong Sad earns the nickname because of something he did, not because of his head.

Additional comments:

• How does that explain Strong Sad saying "I made a mistake!" in Bug In Mouth Disease, though?
  • Maybe that mistake caused Strong Sad's head to look like the way it does today.
    • Complete speculation. Does not justify this fact.

  STRONG BAD: Hey, Dairy Queen.
  STRONG SAD: I already told you, I don't want to be called that any more! I made a mistake!

  • That is a very, very good point.
    • Upon reading the context, I'm changing my vote. Strong Sad's similarity to soft serve doesn't need to be pointed out, and apparently this has no relation, since when SB compares SS to soft-serve, DQ isn't mentioned at all.
• Re: arg against - that is irrelevent as the fact is worded.
  • No it's not--The fact says that by calling SS "Dairy Queen," SB was comparing him to soft-serve. Clearly, he was not; it had nothing do with his appearance. Frankly, I don't see how anyone can accept this fact. It is basically composed of two facts: "SB compares SS to soft-serve because he looks like soft-serve" (blatantly obvious and useless) and "SB called SS 'Dairy Queen' in another toon" (has no place here); which are only related because Dairy Queen happens to make soft-serve ice cream. It's not even the only place that makes soft-serve ice cream.
• I am torn about this revision, and have been torn about the fun-fact, because this is in fact following a vague pattern, but the arguments are accurate enough to warrant another rewrite: I'd suggest a rewrite that could read as follows: This is the second time Strong Bad has made a soft-serve related joke about Strong Sad. The first was in Bug In Mouth Disease where he called him "Dairy Queen".
  • To me, that sounds really, really awkward, and I think any suggested revision would sound awkward, because I don't think the instances are related at all.
    • Again, I personally, don't agree. The fact that DQ's main business is Soft-serve ice cream is itself a hint that there is some commonality between the two comments. I actually think that the original joke was intended to have a double meaning.
• Strong Bad's comment is all that is noted here. If the Internet went totally dead after that comment, you'd think the comment was in reference to Strong Sad's head. Strong Sad's response is not noted, and is irrelevent because it's a comedic response. It's supposed to be incongruous, that's an element of comedy. Here, again, Strong Bad makes a comparison to soft serve by mentioning a well-known purveyor of such treats. It's pretty cut and dried to me.
  • First, the power almost never goes out at that point (if only the Internet went dead, the toon would still keep playing because your browser loads the whole thing before beginning); therefore, Strong Sad's reaction can and should be taken into account. Second, I still fail to see why we're supposed to make the connection between what Strong Bad says and Strong Sad's head. I'm not saying the connection is impossible, but I am suggesting that it's not likely and certainly not automatic.
    • I can say with certainty that even if the cartoon stopped playing immediately after Strong Bad's "Hey Dairy Queen", I would not have thought it referred to Strong Sad's head. Furthermore, the very idea of the cartoon stopping at that point is a fabricated situation. TBC surely meant us to take Strong Bad's insult and Strong Sad's reaction together, and therefore it seems quite clear that Strong Bad calls him "Dairy Queen" because of a past incident (one about which we're supposed to wonder) and not because of the shape of his head.
      • Further, should we assume that every statement in HR universe is irrelevant simply because most of them are funny? Just because it's an element of comedy doesn't mean it's not a true statement. Strong Sad would not have said it because it was funny and incongruous; he would have said it because it was, in fact, in reference to a previous event. Just because it's a comedic response doesn't mean it's not evidence against the connection between the two toons.
• After nearly three weeks, we all still seem to be evenly divided on this one and are getting nowhere. Is there any way to hedge a little on the wording, perhaps with a "may be" or something? I could support it if it wasn't presented as absolute fact.

Proposed revision:

Arguments for:

• This revision is worded such that its factual accuracy cannot be called into dispute; it presents all the facts and reasonably suggests that they could be related.
• The Bug In Mouth Disease page has stated that Dairy Queen is best known for its line of soft-serve products since the fact added to the page two days after the toon was released (15½ months ago). This does not make the connection to this toon true, but it does mean that it's plausible.

Arguments against:

• Says basically the same as the above revision; it's just wordier.
• Yes, Strong Bad called Strong Sad Dairy Queen. Yes, he also called his head a soft-serve flip. There is no real relation between the two since Dairy Queen is not the only place that sell those.
• The connection is too uncertain: even the fact can only say that the two occurrences "could be related".
• The "Soft-serve flip" is refering to the little "folded" shape made from the way soft-serve ice cream comes out of its dispenser. Such shapes are common on almost all fast-food soft-serve treats (ie. McDonalds, Wendy's, etc). Strong Sad's . . . head folds over in a similar manner.

Additional comments:

• Even though this revision has the hint of speculation, I believe it is superior to the earlier revision. (Speculation is permitted when it's reasonable and likely.) The reader is given all the relevant information and can judge for him- or herself whether the connection is valid.
• Re first arg against: Yes, it is wordier, but that's a trade-off for making it factually accurate. The problem with the first revision is that we're not really voting on whether it's a reference; we're voting on whether the incident in Bug In Mouth Disease is even true. If the Bug In Mouth incident is true, then this item becomes a no-brainer. If it's not true, then this item would be automatically declined as patently false. Since we're so evenly split on the issue (to an unprecedented degree), it seemed a compromise was in order. As written, this new revision is definitely true, and it tries to take into account all of the objections raised above.
• Re second arg for: Here's a weird thought: Maybe TBC got the idea to call it a flip of soft-serve by reading the wiki page... nah (but you never know).
• This thing grew from an untrue fact into pure speculation. It now just seems like you guys are desparate to get anything that compares the two instances, which are totally unrelated, through STUFF.
  • If this fact is declined, this discussion should be included on the talk page. While I don't think the facts are hard enough to place in the article, this is an interesting possible connection. I think the talk page is the best place for this fact.

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[edit] SB gettin' his Game Boy on

From: keep cool
Posted on: 06:37, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Arguments for:

• It's another pretty clear recurrence of The Brothers Chaps' references to Nintendo.

Arguments against:

• There was already a similar fun fact on the page that was removed after discussion.
• This is too unspecific.
• I'm not convinced it's actually true. Sources?
• Which game?
• This is not Game Boy specific
• I don't really know what cheat codes he is talking about.

Additional comments:

• Can a Game Boy really be restarted in such a fashion? I've never heard of this; however, the only Game Boy I have is an Advance (where this does not work.)
  • It was how you restarted the original Game Boy; I wasn't aware they discontinued that feature on the later version. Maybe that should be clarified in the entry?
    • The modern GameBoy line is generally reset by pressing B, A, Select, and Start at the same time.
    • I'm looking for evidence that the original Game Boy could be reset in such a fashion; so far I haven't found it.
      • My GameFAQs search turned up empty, my Google search turned up empty, and I can't emulate this with my GBA. Sure you're not just misremembering? Can you repeat this with multiple different games?
      • Yeah, I'm starting to doubt myself now. It doesn't look like that's how you restart the thing. I am, however, still convinced this is a Nintendo reference, and pretty sure it's still about the Game Boy. I do know that you could enter codes or unlock features on the Game Boy by pressing combinations of A, B, Start, Select, and the directional pad. Maybe a revision is in order...
      • You can't restart a Nintendo DS this way.
        • Even on the original Game Boy, the reset code has always been B, A, Select, and Start at the same time.
          • Since the original wording ("by which you could restart the Nintendo Game Boy") looks to be patently false, to reduce clutter (and because there were no accept votes) I removed it and replaced it with the first revision.
• Re arg against: Ah, but if we can find a reference that's exactly the same and actually makes sense in context, I think it should be supported.
• It is not only a gameboy that has these cheat codes. DS, Gamecube, and others. still not plainly gameboy.
• It seems more like a cheat code.

Proposed revision:

Arguments for:

• Whether or not they had a specific game in mind, they're clearly referencing cheat codes.
• Hangs a link to Nintendo.
• It does sound like a cheat code.

Arguments against:

• This is too obvious, and not specific to Nintendo.
  • The problem was that you guys kept referring to Nintendo, and the revision didn't fix this.
    • Unless there's a specific game that uses this particular button configuration in such a way that fits the context in this toon, any Fun Fact about this line will inevitably fail.
• It's not even necessarily referring to cheat codes. It could be just a combination of buttons that does a particular move or attack.
  • I don't think that there are any games out there that uses the Start button as part of a move or attack. This button is only used to start, pause/unpause the game, or as part of cheat codes, which is what the reference is about.

Additional comments:

• I'm not sure if i will vote for this or not (I'd rather see a more specific revision) but when I saw the toon I immediately though of the original Super Mario continue code which was similar (but alas, not quite the same): this site gives "A+B+start" and "A+start" for a continue. However, I am pretty sure this is not SMB specific and there had to be SOME game that you had to press both up, A, and start for something.
  • I found this, but it is quite a stretch.
    • It's possible, but more obscure, I have a feeling this is more of a nintendo reference. I do like this anony addition a bit better, but I'm not sure if Metroid applies as I didn't find a quick cheat for it. (Professional gamers, anyone?) I'd like the version I pointed out if it mentioned SBM and Zelda.
      • Metroid does apply. This fact was voted down, but I agree that it's the most likely.
      • A couple other unlikely possibilities: Abadox and Ghouls 'n Ghosts use UP+A+START as part of codes to start at certain levels.
• Regardless, I think that it needs to be mentioned that this is a reference to console cheat codes. Unless you are using an out of game editing device (I.E. Gameshark) 99% of console codes involve the pressing of buttons in various orders. Here is a list for Grand Theft Auto. Here is a list for Tenchu. I don't think it's a crack at any particular game in general, but considering the brother's video game history, it is definetly a crack at games in generel. I propose a rewrite stating something along those lines.
  • But it's blatantly obvious that's it's a crack at games in general. Unless we know of a specific game, the fact would be utterly useless.
    • I don't think that, to non-gamers, the reference would be very obvious.
• It's one of Strong Bad's refrences to video games that he makes alot, such as the couch mumblings and being caught playing video games during emails, and it should be put in. Also, as a matter of fact, it would probably be referring to Nintendo. Nintendo is known most for using combonations like that in their video games, and are the most known for using a and b as buttons on a controller. The only other probability could be Sega or Microsoft, both who have never been before mentioned in an email.
  • That last part's not quite true: Sega Tapes, for example, have been mentioned before, and a lot of Sega Genesis games use codes similar to the "Up, A, and Start"; see Sonic the Hedgehog for a good example. It's not clearly just a Nintendo reference, unless someone comes up with a game that uses that exact code.
    • What? Sonic the Hedgehog uses just Up, Down, Left, Right, then A+Start for the level select; I remember no instance of Up, A, and Start together.
      • Yes. It's an example of the same kind of code. I'm not claiming that it's exactly the same; I'm just demonstrating that consoles other than the NES use this type of code.
• There was another revision below that was really just a rewording of this revision. I know they're the same because the rewording is what I was going for when I originally wrote this revision. I have replaced the wording of this revision with what was below and adjusted things accordingly.

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[edit] Marzipan's True Colors

From: keep cool
Posted on: 21:15, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Arguments for:

• Both references are specific.

Arguments against:

• It is unclear at best whether Marzipan was truly acknowledging that her hair color was non-natural.
• Some have suggested (see below) that pool chemicals affect natural hair color as well as artificial hair color.
  • If we accept that natural blondes (or other hair colors) can experience discoloration, then the whole fact is shot.
• No matter what color her hair is naturally, the chemicals in the pool aren't exactly standard pool chemicals anyway. Who knows what effects Strong Bad's cocktail could have on hair?

Additional comments:

• The last version of this item had this after: "However, blonde hair reacting with chemicals is a common problem for natural as well as non-natural blondes." Are we voting on the fact above, or the whole fact as removed?
  • If naturally blonde hair reacts with chemicals as well, then this fact does not make much sense. Does anybody have any links to confirm this?
    • No links, but I have a friend with naturally dark hair that turns blond after repeated swimming in a pool. It's very feasible that pool chemicals affect the color of naturally blonde hair as well.
    • There are some helpful comments on the talk page. But no independent source yet.
    • Here's a link: the last question on this page is from a mother with blonde highlights and a daughter with naturally blonde hair: both heads of hair turned green.
    • change it to reflect the fact that ALL blonde hair turns green in pools...
• The chemicals in pools usually don't include pesticide, bleach, or industrial cleaning chemicals PH balanced for women, do they? I wouldn't be surprised if my hair turned green and caught fire if I had been swimming in that cocktail. Maybe this fact should be rewritten "Marzipan's hair turning green, 'tingling' and catching on fire is a reference to how swimming in bug poison and cleaning chemicals can kill you. It's also a reference to how Strong Bad has no idea what he's doing." Except that would be really lame because that's the joke.
  • Since nobody is able to agree on this, perhaps the best approach would just be to acknowledge that the joke is about Strong Bad's incompetence, but to mention that it is a second piece of possible evidence for Marzipan not being a natural blonde.

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[edit] Chemical SB

From: keep cool
Posted on: 04:39, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Arguments for:

Arguments against:

• That's the joke, too obvious, etc.
• There are quite a few chemicals used for cleaning pools.
• Not really necessary to explain this; most people are aware that pool water is treated with chemicals.

Additional comments:

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[edit] Welcome to our tuff. Notice there's no S in it.

From: keep cool
Posted on: 22:06, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Arguments for:

• Re arg against: It's relatively obscure.
• Re arg against: It's not likely that this would be inferred.
• I certainly didn't get the joke until it was explained. Keep it.
• There's no other reason why the P would be missing.

Arguments against:

• This fact explains the joke too much.
• Re arg for: It's a pretty common sight at pools.
• Re arg for: While people may not know about the existence of the sign in real life, they could reasonably infer this.

Additional comments:

• At least, it's obscure enough that I'd never heard it before.
• I've swum and a lot of pools, and I've never seen it.
  • Just because you've never seen it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. MY own pool used to have that very same sign spoke of here, and it's OBVIOUSLY a reference. Plus, I worked in a Pool Store and we sold a few that had jokes like that on it.
    • I mean that since I've never seen it, I don't think it's a common sight and should therefore be explained.
• I'm hesitant to vote to accept not because the sign isn't real (it's definitely real), but because it explains the joke.
  • On the other hand, it is a bona-fide real-world reference, as the sign existed long before this email, and therefore should be mentioned.
• Explaining the joke is very necessary, trust me. And it didn't make it any less funny, at least not for me.
• Can someone explain the original joke to me? I don't understand what's the significance of 'P'.
  • Well, you asked for it. "P" = "pee" = "to urinate". Get it? Like, don't pee in our pool, man. After all, we don't swim in your toilet.
• For those who live in countries where english isn´t the native language it is a good reference since we don't have this sign around. (Altough we get the word play of P=pee without having it explained to us.)
  • I'm not suggesting we explain it, but the person who asked the question right above you apparently didn't get it.

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