HRWiki:STUFF/Archive/Marzipan's Answering Machine Version 14.2

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[edit] Harvested, not stirred

"Wheatgrasstini" and "Wheatgrasskini" are portmanteaus of "wheatgrass" and "martini", and "wheatgrass" and "bikini", respectively.

From: Marzipan's Answering Machine Version 14.2
Posted on: 20:40, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Arguments for:

  1. This is Mentioned in Portmanteaus

Arguments against:

  1. Re: Arg For #1: It should be mentioned on the portmanteaus page, since that page is just an all-inclusive list. It should not be mentioned on the article page because the reference is obvious, and it explains the joke too much.

Additional comments:

  • The version that was actually removed from the article read, "Wheatgrass-tini is an obvious reference to a martini, which is an alcholic drink," which had no links and is what I was basing my arguments on. It has since been reworded above. Do we usually have facts like these to use for hanging links, regardless of how obvious they are? Do we always have links back to such pages such as Portmanteaus and Alcohol? Should we?
    • I've noticed more we like to use just "This is another reference to whatever." But that's still similar. Anything to keep it out of the transcript, I guess.
    • The fact that a Wheatgrasstini is (or might be) alcoholic should be put on a seperate fact, and it shouldn't be part of this fact since is has little relevance.
  • Yet this is true, it shouldn't be listed in thy article.


Votes to accept: Votes to decline:
  1. TheThin
  1. Totally not an S
  2. It's dot com
  3. BryanCTC
  4. TheYellowDart(t/c)
  5. Zerlock1124
  6. Mycroft Holmes
  7. EYanyo
  8.  Loafing
  9. Crazyswordsman
  10. Dangeresque, too?
  11. Yadaman

Proposed revision:

"Wheatgrasstini" and "Wheatgrasskini" are examples of portmanteaus.

Arguments for:

  • I think this revision will remove the explaination of the joke and leave it to the reader to check the portmanteaus page

Arguments against:

  • The same arguments as above still hold. This explains the joke.

Additional comments:

  • Right now, the de facto standard is to include a link to the running gag in the Inside References section; if we want to change this policy, I think that discussion needs to occur separately (on Talk:Running Gags perhaps). Until then, I think it makes sense to accept this fact per our usual practice.
    • Not true. If we would really link everything in the fun facts, they would be twice as long.


Votes to accept: Votes to decline:
  1. Zerlock1124
  2. Mycroft Holmes
  3. גשמלדרברגן (Geshmalder)
  4. Ang the Ephemeral
  5. Some kind of scientist
  6. Point7Q
  7. Trey56
  8. Totally not an S
  9. EYanyo
  10. CompGrl323
  11. Zephiel
  12. Mario2.PNG Super Martyo boing!
  13. Crazyswordsman
  14. Collin Diver
  15. Homestar-winner
  16. Yadaman
  1.  Loafing
  2. Dangeresque, too?

[ Back to STUFF index ]

[edit] From my cold, dead panda!

Crack Stuntman, the celebrity spokesman for Pistols for Pandas, is most likely a reference to Charlton Heston, spokesman for the National Rifle Association.

From: Marzipan's Answering Machine Version 14.2
Posted on: 21:13, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Arguments for:

  1. Charlton Heston was the long-time and very prolific spokesman of and president of the NRA, and they're unique in that there are no other gun associations or corresponding celebrity spokespeople that come near to the fame of the two.
  2. Heston and the NRA faced well-known opposition, for example from Michael Moore in Bowling for Columbine.
  3. It would be extremely difficult for TBC to create a celebrity spokesman for a gun organization and have Marzipan be protesting it without thinking of Heston and the NRA.
  4. Re: arg against #1: "charitable wildlife organization" is a euphemism for what the group really is—a guns rights organization intent on defending the right for bears to bear arms.

Arguments against:

  1. Crack Stuntman is a spokesman for a charitable wildlife organization, not a gun association. The gun element is just the joke.
  2. The message is not a specific reference to anything.
  3. Re: arg for #2: Nearly all prominent groups have some kind of strong opposition to them. Heston and the NRA are not unique in this respect.
  4. Re: arg for #3: It's already been stated that Stuntman is not directly a spokesman for a gun organization. Furthermore, this is not a case where it's reasonable to speculate on what TBC are thinking.
  5. Re: arg for #4: That is pure speculation.
  6. Stuntman doesn't sound like Heston or say anything that would relate him to Heston.
  7. It sounds more like a mixture of many different organizations that certain celebrities often back; ONE, NRA, and others. It doesn't simply deal with guns, but also about the supposedly underprivileged and animal rights.
  8. TBC would have used a name that sounded more like that of the person they're referencing.

Additional comments:

  • I highly disagree with the "most likely" part of the wording. This whole thing is nothing but speculation.
  • Is arg for #4 really speculation? I don't think there's anything in there that goes beyond what Crack Stuntman says: he clearly indicates that he wants to make guns available to pandas. Where the euphemism comes in is that it's questionable that this is in the best interests of pandas.
    • First, I don't see how that makes his organization a direct reference to Heston and the NRA. Speaking to your question, it is speculation to state that PFP is really a guns-rights organization and that the "charitable wildlife organization" is euphemistic for anything. Whether or not this is implied by what Stuntman says is open to the viewer, but there is nothing in the acutal message to indicate he is anything more than he says he is.
      • What is the charity for an organization called "Pistols For Pandas" almost certainly going to be giving out? Bamboo sticks? The only way I can see the "charitable wildlife organization" NOT being a euphemism is if he's not actually referring to PFP when he says it, or if PFP is a misnomer, both of which strike me as more speculation than anything in the arguments for (especially since Stuntman actually says they're putting guns in the hands of pandas).
        • All of that is fine and good, but still no one has provided a satisfactory explanation of how this rises to the level of a direct reference. Other than the fact that they both mention a firearm, PFP's and NRA's names are not similar at all. Neither Charleton Heston nor the NRA are in the business of putting guns in "underprivileged and unarmed" people's hands. All you have are two organizations whose themes are kinda sorta similar, but there is no reference here.
          • I agree that it's not enough to prove a specific reference. Lots of groups have a celebrity spokesperson, and the only thing that links Crack Stuntman to Heston is that they're both in the entertainment industry. If Crack had a Heston-like voice or referenced working in a Heston-like movie, or if Heston was know for doing voiceover work, then maybe I'd see it. I think this is a case of TTATOT.
          • I think what you've just brought up is where the heart of the debate should lie. If this truly is a reference, then it is a more clever one than the usual sort in which a phrase or part of the name of a real-world person, place or thing is explicitly mentioned by a Homestar Runner character. Since TBC didn't choose to bludgeon us over the head with the blunt end of Moses's staff or Ben-Hur's chariot, we've got to decide whether the parallels are strong enough to eliminate the possibility of accidental resemblance.
            • I believe it's accidental. It only seems natural that an actor who portrays a character of a war-themed cartoon show would be interested in guns in "real life". Guns are a pretty common item, and I don't think any mention of them has to automatically invoke the NRA. Nearly all organizations have spokespeople as well, so it's a stretch to say conclusively that they meant to refer to Heston, when there are no supporting details.
  • New thread for a separate comment made above: "Neither Charleton Heston nor the NRA are in the business of putting guns in 'underprivileged and unarmed' people's hands." If this really is a reference, it shouldn't be taken as an insult to Heston or the NRA, anymore than TBC's depictions of Marzipan are intended to insult vegetarians, hippies, etc. If anything, Pistols for Pandas is a caricature of gun rights advocates, just as Marzipan is a caricature of gun rights protesters, hippies, etc. etc. Both take a couple real-life ideas from those groups and then distort them to a ridiculous extreme.
  • I believe the PFP is a cross between the NRA and the WWF, which would make Crack Stuntman some kind of Charton Heston Corollary.
    • I agree, and I think there needs to be some sort of mention of that. Something along the lines of: Pistols for Pandas is apparently an organization in the same vein as the National Rifle Association. Its logo is similar to the World Wildlife Fund's logo.' The logos may not be exact, but pandas are the mascots for both.
      • I feel that this argument just proves that it is a case of TTATOT. The logos are NOT exact, in fact they aren't even close to similar other than the use of a panda. A quick google image search will show you that pandas are also used in the logo for a software company, a hotel chain (both of which are far closer to the PFP logo), the city of Palo Alto, a movie studio, some french company called Dijon, an antivirus program, an online golf simulator, a Fiat model, and a chain of athletic clubs. In fact, most of these logos are much closer to PFP's panda face than the WWF stylized drawing of a whole panda. I'm not saying TBC were referencing any of these companies when they made the cartoon, I'm just pointing out that a panda logo is not unique.
      • It is not 'in the same vein' as the NRA in any case. The NRA is a group for people who already own guns and go to great lengths to preserve their right to keep them. Giving guns to someone else is, therefore, the exact OPPOSITE of what the NRA stands for.
        • Do you have any proof of that last statement? I would think the NRA could care less whether guns are given to people.
          • Exactly. They could care less whether guns are given to people, in fact they'd probably be overjoyed if more people got guns, but the NRA itself is in no way associated with giving out guns themselves, and therefore I don't think the PFP (whose sole function is to hand out guns) is similar enough to be declared a direct reference.


Votes to accept: Votes to decline:
  1. Trey56
  2. DorianGray
  3. TotalSpaceshipGirl3
  4. Kahteh
  5. Jay (Talk)
  6. TheYellowDart(t/c)
  7. -Brightstar Shiner
  8. Qermaq - (T/C) Image:Qermaqsigpic.png
  9. Shwoo
  10. EYanyo
  11. racerx_is_alive
  12. Elcool (talk)(contribs)
  1. It's dot com
  2. Some kind of scientist
  3. Daniel
  4. pensivepoet.babblingbard
  5. I R F
  6. Heimstern Läufer
  7. BigScaryMike
  8. JamesDean
  9. Syphax
  10. Lapper (talk)
  11.  Loafing
  12. FormerBSM
  13. MNGoldenEagle
  14. The Lyrical Wondermind
  15. D2htornado
  16. Grayson
  17. Addict 2006
  18. Mycroft Holmes
  19. YKHi. I'm Ayjo!
  20. Hrjogger
  21. The blinking!
  22. 0rion
  23. The Chort
  24. Wartortle
  25. DeFender1031
  26. SamSF%20sig.jpgFisher (Come in, Lambert.)

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