Talk:Non-English Pronunciations

From Homestar Runner Wiki

Thought this merited a page. I'm not sure what category this belongs to, though; had some trouble distinguishing some of the contents of "Lists" from "Running Gags". -- Minivet 02:09, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Lists are usually long strings of items or names. Running Gags are jokes that are repeated several times throughout toons. — Lapper (talk) 02:11, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 Order 2 Ukelele 3 You're supposed to be our SHA-PAH-RONE! 4 Magna 5 Anime 6 Standard / Correct 7 Macabre 8 Lasagne 9 New name? 10 Foreign names

[edit] Order

These things really need to be put in chronological order or something. Salty^Talk! 03:31, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

I think they're fine the way they are. You can do it if you want to. — _talk Bubsty _edits 21:44, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Actually, they're in alphabetical order already. Which makes sense for a list of words. --DorianGray

[edit] Ukelele

Actually, the correct Hawaiian prononciation of Ukulele is oo·koo·lay·lay.

the "Yoo·ka·lay·lee" pronounciation is a Americanized mispronounciation that is accepted cause of common use. Marzipan and Strong Sad seem to be the type that would prefer the original "correct" pronounciation.

(there are also spelling variations: Ukulele or Ukelele)

So... should this word be removed from the list? im a new user so i dont wanna anger too many people right away.

Del Taco? 20:22, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, I'd merit it a removal, and have been debating it myself. I like the correct pronounciations of things. --DorianGray

A note can be left on the page concerning both pronunciations. — Elcool ^(talk)_(contribs) 20:34, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Whether the pronunciation is correct or not, this page also addresses exaggerated pronunciations. I think Marzipan's pronunciation in The Luau is exaggerated enough to warrant keeping it on the page. —  KieferSkunk (talk) — 21:06, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

I say remove it, or make a note that it was correct. --Jnelson09 02:42, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] You're supposed to be our SHA-PAH-RONE!

There seems to be some debate about which form of "chaperon" (masculine, or feminine "chaperone") should appear on this page and in senior prom. Coach Z is a male character, but he's referred to himself as a "mom" in the past (see garage sale) and seemed to have other identity issues, so I posit that "chaperone" (feminine) can be appropriate for him - at least in a sort of tongue-in-cheek sense. —  KieferSkunk (talk) — 18:21, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Why, though? He is clearly male; any delusions he has are simply delusions. "Chaperon" is correct, let's stick to that. - Qermaq - (^T/C)  18:29, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

KieferSkunk, you do realize that neither "chaperone" and "chaperon" have any gender connotation, right? They're both used to define someone who "attends and supervises a social gathering for young people." ~ CoachZ(talk · contribs)~ 22:08, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Magna

Could somebody please provide the correct pronunciation for "magna". I assume it's "mawn-ya", it looking Italian, but I could be wrong. Retromaniac 22:30, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

It's Japanese, actually. Pronounced 'zactly as spelt, "mahn-gah". --DorianGray

And, for the records, "magna" (as opposed to "manga") is Latin, and therefore pronounced exactly as spelt: "mahg-nah". Loafing 23:33, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Dorian mayt be confusing it with manga. - Qermaq - (^T/C)  23:43, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

No, Retromaniac was confusing it. [1]  Loafing 03:21, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

My assumption was we were looking for a pronunciation for "magna"... - Qermaq - (^T/C)  03:24, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Anime

I'm not sure how Americans expect "anime" to be pronounced, but the actual Japanese word (アニメ) is pronounced as 'ah' (ア, 'a' as in father) + 'ni' (ニ, 'ni' as in knee) + 'me' (メ, 'me' as in men, or possibly may if you consider that it's shortened from アニメーション ['animation', where the メ is held out longer and pronounced differently]). --Quietust 03:08, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Your special characters came out as gibberish, bnut I gather we agree - that "anime" is pronounced "ann-ih-may" with stress on the "ann" part, and secondary stress on the "may" part. - Qermaq - (^T/C)  03:17, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

My "special characters" are just Japanese katakana - install Asian fonts and you'll be able to see them. Also, we don't agree - to me, "anime" is not pronounced as "ann-ih-may", the first half of the English word "animation", but as "ahh-ni-[meh/may]" with stress on the first syllable only, the Japanese word "アニメ". If absolutely necessary, I'll get a recording of the proper pronunciation, though somehow I don't think you guys care about it quite that much. My implication, in this case, is that Strong Sad pronounced it correctly, albeit with rather odd inflection. --Quietust 03:41, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Oh, we do care about this on the wiki. And I agree with you regarding the pronuciation. But I'm not a native speaker of either of the two languages. Loafing 03:47, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Uh, we DO agree, as I indicated the stress was on the first syllable. I even said that. Stress on "ann". But feel free to blather on. And I don't plan on installing anything I don't require, thanks. - Qermaq - (^T/C)  03:50, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

The question was whether the first syllable was "ah" or "ann". Loafing 03:55, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

...and whether the second syllable was "ih" or "[n]ee" (IPA "ɪ" versus "iː", "bid" versus "bead"), the latter of which is how the word is pronounced in Japanese. --Quietust 03:58, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Anime gives it as "ah-ni-meh" in Japanese (where the i is like the one in bead but shorter... but not as short as the one in bid), which agrees with what I remember from my Japanese class back in highschool, but typically in English it's pronounced "an-i-may" (with the i as in bid) or "an-eh-may". Anyways, I put the former (the Japanese one) in the article, I think it fits better. --phlip ^T_C 15:45, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Is there really stress on any of the syllables? In Japanese, no particular syllable gets stressed. ~BT

[edit] Standard / Correct

[2] I'd actually consider the label "Standard" to be more appropriate than "Correct" here anyway, but I didn't want to just flip/flop the edit again. Given differing dialects and the fact that languages are mutable. Sentence fragment. —BryanCTC 06:15, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

The main reason I changed this is that, as DorianGray has pointed out, "ookoolaylay" is actually the correct pronunciation in Hawaiian, while it sounds exaggerated to us because we're used to "you-kuh-lay-lee". Therefore, "correct pronunciation" seems wrong to me. "Standard pronunciation" doen't seem great, but it's a lot better than what we've got. Heimstern Läufer 06:20, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't mean to revert that... I only meant to revert the pronounciation of "haiku", and accidentally caught yours in the process... --phlip ^T_C 06:26, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

It depends on your accent how you pronounce some things. You may want to put this into consideration when this topic is being edited. --86.12.232.113 19:25, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Macabre

"Ma-cahb-ruh" is correct. 134.153.100.196 19:42, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

[edit] Lasagne

I reverted the addition of "lasagne" being pronounced "la-ZAN-ya" as a mispronunciation because, according to Cambridge [3], this is standard in UK English. Still, I wanted to throw this up here because there might be a case for including it since UK English isn't exactly Homestar's normal pattern. Heimstern Läufer 14:30, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Also, that's exactly how Coach Z pronounces it in DNA Evidence. Not sure if that does anything for your opinion on what should be done here The Knights Who Say Ni 21:13, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

I think lasagne should be included. It’s FCUSA, not FCUK. -50.234.189.45 02:58, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

[edit] New name?

It's clear there's a gag of characters over-pronouncing words, even if they're English and the current title's a bit misleading as it could mean any time a character using a foreign word. I'm thinking "Incorrect Pronunciation" or "Strained Pronunciation". Guybrush20X6 00:49, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

We do have an article for -èd. Same idea, but broader in scope. -- 68.37.43.131 01:13, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

"Strained Pronunciations" generally fits the scope of this article before the recent removal of some entries, but I would hesitate to use such an open-ended name while Coach Z's Accent is such a prominent running gag. Perhaps "Strained Loanwords" would be a more precise alternative. This would accomodate for words like "subpoena," which are loaned from Latin, as well as words like "baklava" and "ukelele," where the joke is that the term is exaggeratedly authentic. --Jellote (talk, edits) 01:25, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

Not entirely sure on the "strained" phrasing. Given the article is already titled simply "Foreign Words", perhaps just "Loanwords" could fit as a title. Or perhaps "Mispronounced Loanwords"? DEI DAT VM^┌_{datvm center}\^{super contra}_┘ 20:30, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

"Mispronounced Loanwords" sounds like a good Commando name. Guybrush20X6 15:00, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

That seems good enough to me. Better than the current. -50.234.189.45 02:57, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

What about Fake Foreign Words? Is that good? -A user without a name, 12:59, 9 January 2020

Not really, since most of the examples on the page are real foreign words. We need a title that's broad enough to encompass the page's entire scope (especially if we include examples like antimacassar, Tove Jansson, and Champeeni Loongstrump that aren't necessarily loanwords or mispronounced), yet specific enough to not be unhelpfully vague, and preferrably short and simple. Something like "Trying Too Hard (and Often Failing) to Authentically Pronounce Ambiguously-Pronounced (Usually Foreign or Loaned) Words and Names" but more succinct. Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 23:20, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Some more ideas Bungled Pronunciations (I like that one), Butchered Pronunciation, Wrongly Accented Words (would also cover the "-ed" words the series is known for) and Terrible Foreign Accents. (Maybe a bit too broad). Guybrush20X6 10:50, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

"Overly Authentic Pronunciation" is the best name I can think of. Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 17:55, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

I think part of the reason this page is so hard to name is because it covers two separate but related running gags. First, there's what Strong Bad describes as "try-to-pronounce-foreign-words-authentically-but-not-do-a-very-good-job-of-it"; I think the scope of this gag could be expanded beyond foreign words, to include instances like the French pronunciation of "instrument" or Italian pronunciation of "menace" (both from Strong Badia the Free). Second, there's the opposite of this; characters not caring how foreign words are pronounced and saying them phonetically, as they would be spoken in English based on the spelling. Ideally, the title should encompass both of these gags (pronouncing words in a more foreign way, and in a less foreign way) without broadening the scope to mispronounced words in general. Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 22:26, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

Good point that these seem to be two different gags, in my opinion they're closely related enough to keep 'em all in this one article. Maybe something intentionally ambiguous like "Non-English Pronunciations"? That way it can cover both "pronouncing words that are not in English" and "using a non-English pronunciation of an English word (or foreign loanword with an English pronunciation)". -- Bleu Ninja 04:52, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

I'm kind of considering Pretentious Pronunciation as a page title since you linked to the trope on Talk:senior prom. It has the advantage of being a pre-existing name for the gag (the TVTropes page even lists some examples from this page), but the disadvantage of only covering about half of the page's scope... So it's an option, but probably not a very good one. "Non-English Pronunciations" seems like an appropriate balance of vague and specific... I'd prefer if it described how these gags involve non-English pronunciations (like "Words Pronounced In A More Or Less English Way Than The Correct Pronunciation"), but I can't think of a succinct way to phrase that. It's not a huge problem anyway, since we can divide the page into sections for further specificity. Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 08:03, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Maybe there needs to be two pages. -126.166.205.203 08:21, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

[edit] Foreign names

I think maybe we should have a new, separate section for strong sad pronouncing foreign names. They’re not really loan words.