Template talk:Trogdor
From Homestar Runner Wiki
Template Expansion
- This discussion was moved from its original location at Talk:Peasantry# Template.
I made a template in the Sandbox that covers everything Trogdor/Peasantry-related. I'm thinking it would replace {{Peasant's Quest}}. 
Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 03:02, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
- What do you think? It would be a more convenient way to navigate related pages. Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 07:52, 9 March 2019 (UTC)
Any objections before I replace {{Peasant's Quest}} and move it to {{Trogdor}}? Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 19:20, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
- Generally speaking, I'm fine with the rename and revamp. (I'm guessing you were planning on moving the template?) But I think there's probably severeal things or maybe even a lot of stuff missing from the template: (Trogdor Character variations should be separated from Peasant's quest characters, PQ Locations should be its own section, same for Trogador maybe. Also, I don't see Peasant's Quest Proposed Sequels above.) Section order should also be discussed: I think Toons should go first, then Peasant's Quest, then Games, then the Board Game and then Characters. But that's my personal preference mainly since the template will focus on Trogdor followed by Peasant's Quest a close second. Nevertheless, these can be updated after the move I think. But I'm expecting the template to grow a little bit. --Stux 20:06, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks! I didn't realize so much stuff was missing. I don't think Trogador needs his own section; there are no pages about Trogador except, well, Trogador. Here are my thoughts regarding the order:
- I think Peasant's Quest and the board game should stay together. Both of these games prominently feature Trogdor and his world, and there are numerous pages about them both, so they're similar in that sense.
- I'd like to keep toons, games, and characters together, in that order, just 'cause I think it's kinda funny, but it's not a requirement I suppose. Variations should be right below characters for obvious reasons, with places nearby as well.
- While I prefer the current order, I also wouldn't object to moving Peasant's Quest and the board game between places and other. That way, everything is still grouped together nicely.
- But you're right, that can all be discussed once the template is moved. I'll get on that at some point. Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 00:08, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks! I didn't realize so much stuff was missing. I don't think Trogador needs his own section; there are no pages about Trogador except, well, Trogador. Here are my thoughts regarding the order:
Section Order
Now that we have template discussion in one place, I'd like to continue the discussion on section ordering originally mentioned above:
- Taking Gfd's suggestions into consideration, I've kept the Board Game and Peasant's Quest together and only moved Toons and Games up to the top.
- I like this new setup because the very first item we see on the top left is dragon where everything started! You then go to Games, followed by more specific Game sections and then everything else.
Sorry but I ended up having to break your (Gfd's) Toons/Games/Characters ordering in this case. Everyone, please let me know what you think! --Stux
- I like it! It makes sense to have the games grouped together with "Games", and in a way, it means we get to keep the Toons/Games/Characters ordering (albeit split up into multiple game-related sections). I also like that it starts with dragon. Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 22:23, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
Additions
I don't really agree with some of the links that have been added. 8-Bit is Enough Character Variations is not related to Trogdor/Peasantry except for the inclusion of Munchox and Sluushfuund, who are already linked to. Also, NYU Talk - 1 Mar 2005 and Stinkoman Level 10 Launch Trailer both feature brief cameos of a variation of Trogdor, but they're not really Trogdor-related pages. (Also, this is kind of nitpicking, but why link to the launch trailer and not the level itself, where Trogador actually appears?) I would definitely support a Mecha-Trogador link next to Trogador, though. Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 22:23, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
- Oh! Regarding 8-Bit is Enough Character Variations, I had kinda noticed earlier today that Munchox and Sluushfuund were from the same page but somehow it didn't click that it would make 8-Bit is Enough Character Variations redundant. It makes sense to remove 8-Bit is Enough Character Variations from the template (but not the other way around). I'll at least do that shortly.
- Also, about NYU Talk - 1 Mar 2005, I consider it important since it's the debut of Trogador. There's even a picture and all (no longer present in the latter page), so I think it's relevant to some degree. In the Stinkoman Level 10 Launch Trailer, Mecha-Trogador's screen time is short but quite impactful. When I first saw the video I went "Ahhh! I know what that is!" Best. Trailer. ending. Ever. But I digress. I think adding level 10 proper in addition to the trailer would be better.
- And a Mecha-Trogador also should be there too! I'll try to work something out tonight before I pass out ;). Thanks for your feedback! --Stux 02:44, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
- Done. Let me know what you think. --Stux 02:51, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
- It's better. I was initially opposed to including level 10 at all, but after thinking about it some more, it does make some sense. Trogador does play a major role in that level, so it could be considered a Trogdor-related thing. I'm still not sure about the NYU Talk though. My idea was that this template would compile all the Trogdor/Peasantry-themed pages, and that is very much not one. It's not even that significant — it's not really the debut of Trogador, it's just the time he was shown to a few people because they didn't know what else to do with him. As for the level 10 trailer, it does make more sense to include it in parentheses, but I still don't know if it should be included at all. The level 10 trailer is about as close to a Trogdor-themed page as, say, the Everybody Everybody Poster — Trogador is there, and his appearance is impactful, but the page is by no means about Trogador. Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 18:36, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
- Hmmmm? I'm confused. What do you mean the NYU article is not the debut? The Trogador article clearly mentions twice that it's the debut of trogador, doesn't it? I understand that sometimes articles only touch on certain topics but that doesn't mean that the articles don't contain important information about the topic that can be made more easily accessible via template. That's my rationale for keeping links to these items. Much like the Walkthrough link you added, we could add an anchor to the relevant portion of the NYU talk to make the relevant information clearer. --Stux 23:52, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
- The NYU Talk was indeed the first time Trogador was shown publicly, but it was really only public because someone happened to record it. At the time, they were just showing off a file on their computer to a room of around fifty people. It was neither the birth of Trogador (as he was created prior to this appearance) nor the toon in which he was introduced to the general public (that would be Happy Trogday), so I see Trogador's appearance during the NYU Talk as being relatively insignificant. When Trogador appears, I don't think of it as a reference to the NYU Talk, but as a reference to his official debut as a canonical character in Happy Trogday. I see your point, though, and while I don't think the link is necessary, I understand that others may have different viewpoints, so I'm fine keeping it there (and I definitely approve of adding an anchor if the link is to be kept). Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 21:41, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
- Let's do the anchor thing then, methinks. I understand that, on the surface the NYU talk seems insignificant, but in general, to the world at large, the first public reveal of something always carries some meaning. Think of it this way: Homestar Runner as a character was conceived long before the birth of the website. And we know it because we have some historical information about it and bits and pieces of early media (or mentions thereof) but the launch of the site remains an important event. Similarly other characters (such as xeriously force for example) were conceived long before their first publication, but we never see that process. Instead we see their debut as our first exposure, and sometimes that first exposure is as a no-name background character in some toon (Large Bean iirc), gag or easter egg. Yet we normally treat that its debut and first exposure, no matter how insignificant. So why should this be any different? We can definitely make the information easier to reach by making an anchor and linking to that instead. I think that would make access to information easier and would provide a clearer picture of the character's history. --Stux 08:59, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
- The NYU Talk was indeed the first time Trogador was shown publicly, but it was really only public because someone happened to record it. At the time, they were just showing off a file on their computer to a room of around fifty people. It was neither the birth of Trogador (as he was created prior to this appearance) nor the toon in which he was introduced to the general public (that would be Happy Trogday), so I see Trogador's appearance during the NYU Talk as being relatively insignificant. When Trogador appears, I don't think of it as a reference to the NYU Talk, but as a reference to his official debut as a canonical character in Happy Trogday. I see your point, though, and while I don't think the link is necessary, I understand that others may have different viewpoints, so I'm fine keeping it there (and I definitely approve of adding an anchor if the link is to be kept).
- Hmmmm? I'm confused. What do you mean the NYU article is not the debut? The Trogador article clearly mentions twice that it's the debut of trogador, doesn't it? I understand that sometimes articles only touch on certain topics but that doesn't mean that the articles don't contain important information about the topic that can be made more easily accessible via template. That's my rationale for keeping links to these items. Much like the Walkthrough link you added, we could add an anchor to the relevant portion of the NYU talk to make the relevant information clearer. --Stux 23:52, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
- It's better. I was initially opposed to including level 10 at all, but after thinking about it some more, it does make some sense. Trogador does play a major role in that level, so it could be considered a Trogdor-related thing. I'm still not sure about the NYU Talk though. My idea was that this template would compile all the Trogdor/Peasantry-themed pages, and that is very much not one. It's not even that significant — it's not really the debut of Trogador, it's just the time he was shown to a few people because they didn't know what else to do with him. As for the level 10 trailer, it does make more sense to include it in parentheses, but I still don't know if it should be included at all. The level 10 trailer is about as close to a Trogdor-themed page as, say, the Everybody Everybody Poster — Trogador is there, and his appearance is impactful, but the page is by no means about Trogador.
