HRWiki:Da Basement

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[[Image:The_Basement.PNG|thumb|300px|Where all the cool guys hang out]]Welcome to Da Basement!  This is a messageboard for coordinating and discussing administrative tasks on the Homestar Runner Wiki. Although it is aimed mostly at sysops, ''any user'' is welcome to leave a message or join the discussion here.<br />
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__NEWSECTIONLINK__
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{{Da Basement Archive}}
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:''This is the administrative message board.'' {{for|basement featured in Homestar Runner toons|Basement of the Brothers Strong}}
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[[Image:The_Basement.PNG|thumb|300px|Where all the cool guys hang out]]
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{{shortcut|DB}}
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Welcome to Da Basement!  This is a messageboard for coordinating and discussing administrative tasks on the Homestar Runner Wiki. Although it is aimed mostly at sysops, ''any user'' is welcome to leave a message or join the discussion here.<br />
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== Template Overload ==
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If you have a question regarding how to become a sysop, please read through [[HRWiki:FAQ#How do I become an admin or sysop?|the FAQ]] beforehand.
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the [[Stinkoman 20X6]] game has its own [[Template:Stinkoman_20X6|template]], and much more recently [[Old-Timey]] got its own [[Template:OldTimey|template]] thanks to [[User:bkmlb|bkmlb]], which is looking good... shouldn't the 20X6 world (not the game) have its own Navigation Template as well?  I think it's big enough it deserves one. --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 04:00, 5 Oct 2005 (UTC)
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{{clear}}
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:I think we may be going overboard with the templates. Some of them are too big (this one would be), and when pages have two templates it looks odd. That's what I think anyway. {{User:Some HSR themed username/sig}} 04:05, 5 Oct 2005 (UTC)
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{{Da Basement Archive}}
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::I agree with HSRUsername, we have some templates that are flat out useless in my view.  20X6 would be to big, like Old-Timey is. {{User:Rogue Leader/sig}} 04:07, 5 Oct 2005 (UTC)
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<div class="plainlinks" style="font-family: georgia; border: 1px dashed #06f; background: #eef; padding: 0.5em; margin: 0.5em 0.5em 1em; text-align: center; font-size: 18px;">[http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=HRWiki:Da_Basement&action=edit&section=new Start a new thread &raquo;]</div>
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{{clear}}
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{{Projects Navigation}}
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__TOC__
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:::Heh, you think pages get big with all the templates, check out some of the longer Wikipedia ones, like [[Wikipedia:George H.W. Bush#External links|some politicians]].[[User:Tom|<nowiki></nowiki>]]  --  [[User:Tom|Tom]] 04:16, 5 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 
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::I don't know if this is the right place for my comment, or if a more central location would be better, but I think we're going a little overboard on nav templates here. For example, the only common thing about the Shorts is that TBC call them all that. I think we should consider removing some of the new templates from pages that don't really need them. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 06:21, 6 Oct 2005 (UTC)
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== Licensing drop-down list ==
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:::I not... not, not... not! not! not! not second that.  You do like me! Eh, I find them rather helpful when I want to randomly jump around or see what's related. Sometimes it can help when you're looking for a certain something related to so-and-so, but don't know what that first thing is ... called? I dunno. But yeah moderation is not, not... er I mean definitely a good thing. --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 18:46, 6 Oct 2005 (UTC)
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::::I'm not sure I'm reading your comments correctly, but if I am, then you're right: I don't not dislike not you. Seriously, I think you're doing a good job around here. These templates, however, ''do'' need to be examined more closely, and we need some more feedback. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 19:26, 6 Oct 2005 (UTC)
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:::::Gah! The templates! They're- they're attacking! O_O It's the gallery thing all over again. The way I see it: Use them where it's logical, such as SBemails and Stinkoman 20X6, but don't use them just to use them, like Shorts and Old-Timey. - {{User:Joshua/sig}} 19:29, 6 Oct 2005 (UTC)
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::::::I think that templates should be used for things like games, where we would have to list them at the bottom of the page.  Like at Stinkoman 20X6, we would be listing all of the related articles at the bottom of the page is it wasn't for the template.  We don't say <blockquote>See Also: <br>Short <br>Short</blockquote>On another short, do we? {{User:Rogue Leader/sig}} 19:34, 6 Oct 2005 (UTC)
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:::::::I personally don't like the sudden onslaught of templates either... I think we're kinda pushing it a bit. Some things make good logical sense to group together, like Joshua said. Others... I don't think so. It seems we ARE using some, just coz we can. There are already lists for some of these things, too. Shorts, for example, are all already listed on the [[Toons]] page. Seems to me like the templates are really just trying to do the job that the categories already do... I just think they're getting a little clunky is all. Un...settling. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
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Could a sysop or admin kindly populate [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] with the [[:Category:Image copyright tags|image copyright tags]] that have been created over the past few years? It would aid in choosing {{p|l={{fullurl:File:aquashot.png|diff=prev&oldid=717137}} the right license when uploading}}. Please and thanks, {{User:Soiled Bargains/sig|nodash=nodash}} 22:07, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
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:::::::::2 cents: We are going overboard with the templates. I don't mind the SBEmail, PQ, Stinkoman 20X6 (game), and Sightings templates; but things like CC, Old-Timey, and 20X6 are best left to the '''Categories'''. &mdash;[[User:BazookaJoe|BazookaJoe]] 19:43, 6 Oct 2005 (UTC)
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== MediaWiki system messages ==
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Ok, I will let you in on a little secret page of mine (one of two that i keep) with all those [[User:E.L. Cool/templates|teplates]]. Just make a list of which one are fine and which need to hit the road. {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 20:13, 6 Oct 2005 (UTC)
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I had a few concerns for the [[HRWiki:Sysops|sysops]] regarding some of the '''MediaWiki system messages'''. Please delete/modify or just comment on the following:
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:I don't mind templates all over the place, but can we at least keep them one color? They look so inconsistent in green, orange, purple, etc. They should all be the same blue as the Strong Bad Emails one. That's just my 2 cents. &mdash; {{User:JoeyDay/sig}} 19:44, 8 Oct 2005 (UTC)
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{| class="wikitable"
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! Message
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!
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* Default
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* Current
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! Concern
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! Decision / remark
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|- style="background:#CCC;"
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| [[MediaWiki:Anononlyblock]]
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|
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* anon. only
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* anonnies only
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| "anonnies"?
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| "Hey, [[HRW:G#A|anonny]], why don't you go... [[rock opera|brush up]] on [[anonny|your knowledge]] of the [[Homestar Runner (body of work)|Homestar Runner]] body of work or something and not attribute it to yourself!"
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|- style="background:#CCC;"
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| [[MediaWiki:Autoredircomment]]
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|
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* Redirected page to [[$1]]
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* redirect to [[$1]]
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| present tense? lowercase? also, why not just default?
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| rowspan=3 | preference
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|- style="background:#CCC;"
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| [[MediaWiki:Autosumm-blank]]
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|
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* Blanked the page
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* blanked the page
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| lowercase? why not just default?
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::I'm with Joey. There's been a recent influx, but I don't think they're a bad thing. As long as they're peacefully at the bottom, they don't affect scrolling or anything, and are a handy navigation tool. I wouldn't mind keeping them all. The colors could be uniformed, but I don't have much of an opinion on that. I'd be fine just leaving them be. {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 19:55, 8 Oct 2005 (UTC)
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|- style="background:#CCC;"
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| [[MediaWiki:Autosumm-replace]]
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|
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* Replaced content with '$1'
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* replaced the page with '$1'
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| lowercase?
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:::The problem I have with the CC and Limozeen temps is... if we use them, then why not follow the trend and make more templates like, say, Fluffy Puff and Dangeresque? Can't we leave such things like those to the categories? &mdash;[[User:BazookaJoe|BazookaJoe]] 16:42, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
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|- style="background:#CFC;"
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| [[MediaWiki:Clearyourcache]]
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|
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* '''Note - After saving, you may have to bypass your browser's cache to see the changes.''' '''Mozilla / Firefox / Safari:''' hold ''Shift'' while clicking ''Reload'', or press either ''Ctrl-F5'' or ''Ctrl-R'' (''Command-R'' on a Macintosh); '''Konqueror: '''click ''Reload'' or press ''F5''; '''Opera:''' clear the cache in ''Tools → Preferences''; '''Internet Explorer:''' hold ''Ctrl'' while clicking ''Refresh,'' or press ''Ctrl-F5''.
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* <nowiki>{{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Special:Preferences|'''See [[Help:User Preferences]] for help deciphering the options.''' <nowiki></nowiki>}}</nowiki> '''Note:''' After saving, you may have to bypass your browser's cache to see the changes. *'''Mozilla / Firefox:''' hold down ''Shift'' while clicking ''Reload'', or press ''Ctrl-Shift-R'' (''Cmd-Shift-R'' on Apple Mac) *'''Safari:''' press ''Cmd-Option-E'' *'''IE:''' hold ''Ctrl'' while clicking ''Refresh'', or press ''Ctrl-F5'' *'''Konqueror:''' simply click the ''Reload'' button, or press ''F5'' *'''Opera''' users may need to completely clear their cache in ''Tools&rarr;Preferences''.
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| I recommend we delete [[MediaWiki:Clearyourcache]] and move "See [[Help:User Preferences]] for help deciphering the options." onto [[MediaWiki:Preferences-summary]].
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| The entire preferences page was reworked beginning with the next version. This will need to be reviewed once we upgrade (whenever that is).
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|- style="background:#CFC;"
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| [[MediaWiki:Disambiguationspage]]
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|
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* Template:disambig
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* HRWiki:Links_to_disambiguating_pages
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| supposed to designate which template(s) are used to mark disambiguation pages. non-default setting breaks the functionality of [[Special:Disambiguations]]. also, [[HRWiki:Links to disambiguating pages]] is possibly pointless.
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| This was set in the earliest days of the wiki and should be reviewed and probably removed.
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|- style="background:#CCC;"
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| [[MediaWiki:History-title]]
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|
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* Revision history of "$1"
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* Revision history of $1
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| removal of quotes, just different for seemingly no reason - why not just default?
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| preference; likely inspired by the {{p|l=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:History-title&action=history same change}} at Wikipedia
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|- style="background:#CCC;"
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| [[MediaWiki:Mailmypassword]]
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|
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* E-mail new password
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* Email new password
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| <s>"Email" generally should be spelled "E-mail"</s> nevermind, but still why not just keep the default?
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| "{{p|l=http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/never Never mind}}" should be two words.
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:Never_mind, then ;-) -- I guess I figured out why we have non-default on this, anyway -- probably for consistency with the H*R spelling, which is usually (always?) non-hyphenated. {{User:LobStoR/sig}} 20:29, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
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|- style="background:#CFC;"
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| [[MediaWiki:Movenologintext]]
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|
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* You must be a registered user and [[Special:UserLogin|logged in]] to move a page.
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* You must be a registered user and [[Special:Userlogin|logged in]] to move a page, or this page may be [[HRWiki:Protected page|protected]] from page moves.
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| This message is not even displayed for protected page move attempts. (in that case, it displays [[MediaWiki:Protectedpagetext]], which is defaulted to "This page has been locked to prevent editing.")
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| This change was probably correct back when it was implemented but after various upgrades is now out of date. It should be reviewed and probably removed.
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|- style="background:#CFC;"
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| [[MediaWiki:Right-edit]]
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|
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* Edit pages
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* Edit this page
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| Incorrect grammar for the list at [[Special:ListGroupRights]]<br />
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''edit:'' also feeds [[MediaWiki:Permissionserrorstext-withaction]] "You do not have permission to $2, for the following {{PLURAL:$1|reason|reasons}}:"
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| We need to see where else this is used. Obviously it was changed for some reason, but the change could be out of date and may need to be removed. If it's still current, then the amount of ''sense'' made on the group rights page (''grammar'' is not a problem per se) is potentially a secondary concern, not a primary one
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:I think it's $2 in [[MediaWiki:Permissionserrorstext-withaction]] -- "You do not have permission to $2, for the following {{PLURAL:$1|reason|reasons}}:" {{User:LobStoR/sig}} 20:10, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
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|}
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::::I agree with BazookaJoe. It's what I said: some of the templates are trying to do the job of the categories. I like the categories better anyways. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
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Please check these out, and leave comments regarding any decisions on any of these. Thanks, {{User:LobStoR/sig}} 18:43, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
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:I replied to your, ahem, concerns. Thanks, Chaps, for not burdening us with more pressing matters, like toons, so we can take care of stuff like this. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 19:28, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
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::Yeah, really helps us... err... refine our wiki :-) {{User:LobStoR/sig}} 19:56, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
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:::I set the table row color by status -- green=pending, grey=no action. {{User:LobStoR/sig}} 20:29, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
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Since voting seems to have stopped, we have three templates that have a majority of people in favor of deleting them.  Shall we continue the voting, or delete these templates. {{User:Rogue Leader/sig}} 20:24, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
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== Use of <code>id</code> in templates ==
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As work was being done on [[sightings]] pages, I noticed that {{t|sightingslanguagewarning}} makes use of the <code>id</code> attribute for its box. Its value, which references another template that has the same thing, is "<code>[[Template:inprogress|inprogress]]</code>". The <code>id</code> attribute is, in part, the replacement for the <code>name</code> attribute, which creates an anchor: a "link" to a specific part of the page.
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:I think if no one else votes in the next day or so we could go ahead and start removing those three. We also need to discuss the ones where there was no clear consensus (Limozeen and Cheat Commandos) to see whether we can get a better majority (a one-vote difference is not very clear-cut, especially when I personally could change one of my neutral votes and either tie the vote or make the difference a little bigger). &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 00:24, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
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Two <code>id</code>s can never be the same on a page, as stated in this sentence from [http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/#C_8 section C.8 of the XHTML 1.0 specification]:
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::It has been approximately a day.  It seems like the templates will be deleted {{User:Rogue Leader/sig}} 22:37, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
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<blockquote>The values of these attributes must be unique within the document, valid, and any references to these fragment identifiers (both internal and external) must be updated should the values be changed during conversion.</blockquote>
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:::Adding delete temps to the templates themselves is problematic for the pages that contain them. Templates that have been voted for removal will be... removed from the pages that they occupy. Until all templates have been removed from pages, they will not be deleted (my main reason for not deleting the templates outright is for E.L. Cool to preserve [or not preserve] them in any manner he wishes). &mdash;[[User:BazookaJoe|BazookaJoe]] 02:41, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
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If a value for <code>id</code> is used more than once, it will invalidate the page, [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri={{urlencode:{{fullurl:HRWiki:Sandbox|oldid=731671}}|query}}&group=1 as demonstrated in this link] ({{p|l={{fullurl:HRWiki:Sandbox|oldid=731671&action=edit}} here's the code}}). Three errors are from multiple occurrences of the same <code>id</code> value. The remaining five demonstrate that there is a format to be followed, and an invalid format throw an error. In this example, headings that start with a number or special character generate invalid <code>id</code> values (see C.8). This is something MediaWiki does and it's practically out of our control. Note that headings with the same name are handled by MediaWiki to an extent.
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::::I noticed this and removed all references to <nowiki>{{Toons}}, {{Shorts}} and {{OldTimey}}</nowiki> from their respective pages. Even though the delete template is gone, it's something that would have to happen anyway, and it's easier to do while the templates are still there so you can use the "what links here" feature - currently only E.L. Cool's page links to these 3 templates. {{User:Phlip/sig}} 02:51, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
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Looking through [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] and [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], the only selection by <code>id</code> that's of concern is <code>#navbox</code>. However, those style rules are also applied to the class <code>navbox</code>, and I believe that most if not all navigation templates get their styles from using the <code>class</code> attribute.
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:::::I have no problem with E.L. keeping the templates. On the other hand, he could substitute the code if we wanted to be thourough and remove the pages themselves. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 02:54, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
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Lastly, if this rant seems familiar, I did go on about [[HRWiki talk:Standards#ids|the use of this attribute on table rows]] a year and so ago.
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::::::Also, I would be more inclined to keep the two that are on the bubble if, like Joey suggested, the colors were standardized (or at least toned ''way'' down). They could probably all use it. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 02:55, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
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''In summary'', I wish to recommend that users be cautious as to add <code>id</code> attributes to templates, or anything that may be used more than once on a page, and, likewise, using this attribute to apply styles. In addition, I wish to recommend that users who see an <code>id</code> attribute causing a ruckus  resolve it in some manner or remove it. {{User:Soiled Bargains/sig}} 21:09, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
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:::::Uh, so can we delete those templates?  They are now off the pages.  Oh, and no probablo with E.L. Cool keeping the temps.{{User:Rogue Leader/sig}} 22:36, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
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== Dropdown Menu Support ==
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===Template Voting===
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Will the HRWiki be compatible with dropdown menus sometime? Purple Wrench has a great idea for a restyling of the @StrongBadActual page, but a dropdown menu that would allow him to compact all the transcripts would benefit the page greatly. - {{User:Catjaz63/sig}} 03:54, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
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Due to the large number of [[User:E.L._Cool/templates|templates]], we are voting to see which we should keep and which should go.
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:To generalize, having '''''any''''' sort of hide/show functionality for a section of text would help. In addition, the page (both as it appears now ''and'' if my redesign is used instead) will appear broken unless the issues regarding automatic resizing of gifs are sorted out. I am aware that both of these tasks are not trivial, but they would be necessary for a page that has the potential to grow very quickly and be populated with gifs. --{{User:Purple Wrench/sig}} 12:28, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
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:: Sometime? Yes! Soon? Well... no promises, but I do intend to get back into active development for this site, and creating a better user experience for this day and age is tops on my list. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 22:58, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
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:::If you just configured the server to resize [[:File:twitter sillysoolnds.gif|twitter sillysoolnds.gif]] correctly, I thank you for doing so. There are a few more gifs I uploaded in August for [[@StrongBadActual]] that don't resize yet ([[:File:heavenstaxforreals.gif|this]] and [[:File:Casiostaxx.gif|this]]). --{{User:Purple Wrench/sig}} 12:27, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
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::::Looks like they're both working now too. Thanks! --{{User:Purple Wrench/sig}} 19:39, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
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<hr>
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== Personal info of real persons ==
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:{{User:Joshua/sig}} - Okay, going through your list from top to bottom, here's my opinion:
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* Strong Bad Email #1 - '''Delete''' These things don't really go together too well. They just aren't related closely enough. I.E, I don't really see Floppy Disc Container relating to SBEmails by Length enough to share a template. I know they were grouped together before, but then it was under "Additional Information," not "Strong Bad Emails." Am I making sense here?
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I did a little digging and couldn't find anything on this subject (if anyone knows where we've talked about it before, please link to it here). Lately there's been an uptick of personal information on articles about real people that seems a little... over the line. I can't say for sure because to my knowledge we've never actually defined a line (other than limiting certain information about minors). So what should the line be? Obviously anything mentioned directly on the official site is fair game, but thus far we haven't limited ourselves to that. We include information from interviews and the like. That said, just because a scrap of data can be found on an obscure website somewhere doesn't automatically mean it should be here. This is a bit unfocused, so I think I'll stop talking and open the floor for others' thoughts and concerns. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 17:03, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
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* Peasants Quest - '''Keep''' It has a purpose. Although I'm not sure if the "Scalding Lake" link is nessecary.
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:There's all sorts of information about practically everyone in the world which really ought to be private information, which most people would probably prefer if it would remain private information, but which, because of the age we live is, is now easily accessible to anyone on the internet. I think that the natural cutoff point here is probably that anything which has been deliberately publicized in relation to The Family Chaps's creative endeavors is fine, but that out of respect to their privacy, information from any other source which is not directly linked to their public lives as writers/producers should be off-limits. Practically, that would mean that we should avoid making use of things like phonebook databases, people search services, background check engines, etc. On the other hand, any information from the toons, DVD commentaries, interviews, press releases, Strong Bad's social network accounts, TBC's other projects, and even databases like IMDB which are specifically geared toward the video entertainment industry ought to be fair game. I think it's only common decency to say that we don't publish any information that TBC themselves haven't already indicated is intended to be in the public eye. {{User:DeFender1031/sig}} 17:43, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
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* Teen Girl Squad - '''Partial Delete''' At least the Characters part. The Issue section is actually okay.
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:::Please excuse my brevity, but I wholly agree with Defender's definition of "the line". Just because information can be found doesn't mean it should all be published. In addition to that, I believe that a new [[:Category:HRWiki Policy|Policy page]] be created to specifically explain what the line is and why we've drawn it. --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 13:31, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
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* Limozeen - '''Delete''' Not needed at all.
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::::I agree with DeFender and Stux. {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig‎}} 18:16, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
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* Sightings - '''Keep''' Useful.
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* Cheat Commandos - '''Delete''' Pushing the limits here...
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* Marzipan's Answering Machine - '''Keep''' A-okay. Although I don't like how the ''12.2'' hangs out like that.
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* Main Characters - '''Delete''' I know this one's been around a while, but I don't think we really need it.
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* Toons & Shorts - '''Delete''' For reasons stated above
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* Videlectrix Games - '''Keep''' I actually like this one. Many of these games are little known and closely connected.
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* Stinkoman 20X6 - '''Keep''' Very useful.
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* Main Pages - '''Neutral''' I don't know about this one. It's sort of like Shorts and Toons, but I like it for some reason.
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* Old Timey - '''Delete''' No. Just, no.
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* Strong Bad Emails #2 - '''Keep''' Probably the best template out there.
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<hr>
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== AFJAOBN ==
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:&mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 20:43, 6 Oct 2005 (UTC):
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* Strong Bad Email #1 - '''Keep.''' The different ways of organizing the information should be interlinked.
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I think that [[HRWiki:April Fools' Jokes and Other Baleeted Nonsense]] has run its course. The wiki hasn't done a proper gag in years, and every single "prank" done by users is lame. No offense, but changing your sig and your user page has been ''done''. I get the strong feeling some people come back once a year just so that they can do something that gets posted on that page. I'd really like to lock it, and unless somebody can make an extremely good case for why it needs to stay open, I plan do to so. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 02:16, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
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* Peasants Quest - '''Keep.'''
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:Well, I think some people enjoy it and it isn't harming anyone or anything soooo... I feel like that's a pretty good reason? {{User:The thing/sig}} 02:18, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
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* Teen Girl Squad - '''Keep.'''
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::For about five years running you did exactly what I was talking about. The harm is that it's disruption not to be clever or funny but for its own sake. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 02:32, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
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* Limozeen - '''Delete.''' I think the category would serve this one fine.
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:::Much as it pains me to do so, I have to agree with Dot com. It was total loads of fun back in the wiki's heyday when we had a lot of active users who would do April Fools' stuff, and then would continue to interact with each other in ways relating to their joke. Now that the wiki is pretty much dead save for a handful of people, that isn't really how it happens anymore. We're basically left with a few edited userpages that no one would even be looking at were it not for the edits being made to them, along with some other disruptive behaviors such as adding nonsense that no one cares about to talk pages that no one has looked at in years. At this point, it's all just become stale. Sadly, there's not enough of a userbase for it not to be stale. We had a good run, but until and unless TBC start updating weekly again and we get a huge influx of users which causes the wiki to return to its former glory, we need to put Apro Foo Day out to pasture. {{User:DeFender1031/sig}} 11:33, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
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* Sightings - '''Keep.'''
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::::I'm here in support of DC's and DeFender's position.  These days some users just simply want to one-up the previous year's or another user's randomness. I'm fine with just keeping this page locked for historical purposes.  --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 12:31, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
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* Cheat Commandos - '''Keep.'''
+
:::::Oppose. This particular April Fools' Day has had more participants than any of the previous four years - without coinciding with a H*R update, no less. {{User:RickTommy/sig}} 13:02, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
-
* Marzipan's Answering Machine - '''Keep.'''
+
::::::To be clear, I'm not suggesting a wholesale ban on users changing their sigs or whatever they've been doing; I just don't think we should keep a record of it anymore. (If we ever do a wiki-wide prank again, that can still be noted.) &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 14:26, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
-
* Main Characters - '''Keep.''' It's been around for a while with no complaints till now.
+
<pre>The April Fools’ Day page has brought so many people joy.
-
* Toons - '''Delete.''' These technically are unrelated to each other.
+
And by “so many”, I mean those few it did not annoy.
-
* Shorts - '''Delete.''' Same as above.
+
And if it’s locked forever, never to be changed again,
-
* Videlectrix Games - '''Delete.'''
+
Then April’s reemergence of those old users will end.
-
* Decemberween In July - '''Keep.'''
+
No more rare appearances of people lost to time,
-
* Stinkoman 20X6 - '''Keep.'''
+
Like wind caressing crystals in forgotten caves and mines.
-
* Main Pages - '''Keep.'''
+
The truth is if the page gets its abilities revoked,
-
* Old Timey - '''Delete or severely prune.''' Again, maybe just the characters, or something...
+
That marks the end of The_thing’s twelve year streak of stupid jokes.
-
* Strong Bad Emails #2 - '''Keep.''' Good ol' sbemails.
+
And yes I know that certain men would love to see me sad,
 +
I purposely have vexed you for a decade, is that bad?
 +
So, if you must, protect the page and ruin all those dreams
 +
Left gazing into voids of empty memories unseen.</pre> {{User:The thing/sig}} 17:38, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
 +
:Did you even read my comment above? We have no current plans to stop people from doing the stupid stuff they do on April 1. The only difference is we're not going to record what they do in a centralized place. If that's a dealbreaker—in other words, if someone is doing something ''only'' so they can be listed on that page—then they're doing it for the wrong reasons. That's precisely what locking the page aims to curb. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 19:34, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
 +
::Personally I liked having all of the stuff in one place, so a user could look through all of them at once on any given day of the year. That said, I definitely see both sides of the issue here. If the page is locked... okay, it's still there for posterity. Then I'd just take the list of stuff I did and stick it on a page in my own userspace, and in that case I'd recommend other users do the same. --{{User:Purple Wrench/sig}} 23:50, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
 +
:::You're free to list your own stuff, I guess, but we're not going to move a centralized list to the user space. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 23:53, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
-
<hr>
+
== The Deleteheads Download Blockquote ==
-
:--[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]:
+
-
* Strong Bad Email #1 - '''Neutral.'''
+
I made a blockquote-type thing for the page [[The Deleteheads Download]], but I can't add it because I can't edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]]. Can a sysop add this? Feel free to make any changes!
-
* Peasants Quest - '''Keep.'''
+
<pre>
-
* Teen Girl Squad - '''Partial Delete.''' Just the episodes.
+
.DeleteheadsDownload<!--you can change the title to whatever you want--> {
-
* Limozeen - '''Delete.'''
+
    background: url(/images/c/c8/DeleteheadsDownloadBackground.png) repeat-y;
-
* Sightings - '''Keep.'''
+
    padding: .5em 1em 1em;
-
* Cheat Commandos - '''Delete.'''
+
    width: 600px
-
* Marzipan's Answering Machine - '''Keep.'''
+
}
-
* Main Characters - '''Keep.'''
+
</pre>
-
* Toons - '''Delete.''' They're unrelated and can all be found at the big [[Toons]] page.
+
{{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig‎}} 00:27, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
-
* Shorts - '''Delete.''' See previous answer.
+
:Done. I went with just <code>.deleteheads</code> and made some small adjustments to the padding and width. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 00:41, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
-
* Videlectrix Games - '''Keep.''' Some of these are obscure...
+
-
* Stinkoman 20X6 - '''Keep.'''
+
-
* Main Pages - '''Keep.'''
+
-
* Old Timey - '''Delete.''' This is just too big and clunky.
+
-
* Strong Bad Emails #2 - '''Keep.''' This is pretty important.
+
-
::On a side note, is there a better place for this? Maybe in Da Basement? This is getting to be pretty big, especially if everyone wants a vote. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
+
-
:::It will probably need to be moved and eventually archived. But, on the other hand, this page is relatively empty other than this discussion. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 21:00, 6 Oct 2005 (UTC)
+
-
<hr>
+
== Oldest Downloads Menu Mirror ==
-
{{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 21:19, 6 Oct 2005 (UTC)
+
-
*Strong Bad Info: See [[Talk:Strong_Bad_Email#Template|this talk]]. '''Keep'''
+
-
*Peasants Quest - '''Keep'''
+
-
*Teen Girl Squad - '''Keep'''
+
-
*Limozeen - '''Keep'''. If not all, then leave just the charactes.
+
-
*Sightings - '''Keep'''
+
-
*Cheat Commandos - '''Keep'''. If not all, then leave just the charactes.
+
-
*Marzipan's Answering Machine - '''Keep'''
+
-
*Main Characters - '''Keep'''. Used it several times. Very important.
+
-
*Toons - '''Delete.'''. We have the [[Toons]] page.
+
-
*Shorts - '''Delete'''. Same.
+
-
*Videlectrix Games - '''Keep'''
+
-
*Stinkoman 20X6 - '''Keep'''
+
-
*Main Pages - '''Keep'''
+
-
*Old Timey - '''Keep''', but just the charactes. Too long!
+
-
*Strong Bad Emails #2 - '''Meh'''.. I mean '''Keep!'''
+
-
*Decemberween In July - '''Keep'''
+
-
*In short: leave episodes and characters, take out the toons.
+
Dear Sysops:<br>
 +
I [[User:CoachZiscool1978|CoachZiscool1978]] request that you create a mirror for the [[Oldest Downloads Menu]]. It may take as much time as it needs but, I have overwhelming support... (by overwhelming I mean one [[User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc|Gfdgsgxgzgdrc]].) Still! I hope you do it for me, in your eyes, I'm a wiki user, In my family's eyes, I'm a son, or grandson, or even nephew but in my heart I'm a Homestar Runner fan and I'm a historical preserver...<br>
 +
Anxiously awaiting a reply: {{User:CoachZiscool1978/sig}}
-
<hr>
+
:I've changed it to a local mirror.&nbsp;-- [[User:Tom|Tom]] 01:28, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
-
{{User:Some HSR themed username/sig}} 01:45, 7 Oct 2005 (UTC)
+
-
This looks like fun!
+
-
* Strong Bad Email #1 - '''Keep'''
+
-
* Peasants Quest - '''Keep'''.
+
-
* Teen Girl Squad - '''Keep'''.
+
-
* Limozeen - '''Delete'''.  Use the category
+
-
* Sightings - '''Keep'''.
+
-
* Cheat Commandos - '''Delete'''.  Use the category
+
-
* Marzipan's Answering Machine - '''Keep'''.
+
-
* Main Characters - '''Neutral'''. Small, not really used
+
-
* Toons - '''Delete'''. Use the category
+
-
* Shorts - '''Delete'''. Use the category
+
-
* Videlectrix Games - '''Neutral'''.
+
-
* Stinkoman 20X6 - '''Keep'''.
+
-
* Main Pages - '''Keep'''.
+
-
* Old Timey - '''Delete'''.  Use the category.
+
-
* Strong Bad Emails #2 - '''Keep'''
+
-
<hr>
+
== Long-term inactivity ==
-
{{User:Rogue Leader/sig}} 01:56, 7 Oct 2005 (UTC)
+
-
Awesome.  It's old stuff all over again.
+
-
* Strong Bad Email #1 - '''Keep''' I like it.
+
-
* Peasant's Quest  - '''Small pruning''' Take out Scalding lake, and I like it.
+
-
* Teen Girl Squad '''Keep''' - Not to big.  Only 4-5 characters
+
-
* Limozeen '''Delete''' - Same reason as HSR Themed Username
+
-
* Sightings '''Keep''' - A good, solid template
+
-
* Cheat Commandos '''Severe Delete''' - Hate it. Use the category
+
-
* Marzipans Answering Machine '''Keep''' - Different from shorts because of common theme
+
-
* Main Characters '''Neutral''' -  A little small, but nice idea
+
-
* Toons - '''Severe Delete''' Use the cat.
+
-
* Shorts - '''Severe Decline''' Same as Toons
+
-
* Videlectrix Games - '''Keep''' Maybe expand it to include all the games, but I like it.
+
-
* Stinkoman 20X6 '''Keep''' - A nice, solid template.
+
-
* Main Pages '''Neutral''' - Good template
+
-
* Old Timey '''Ultra Delort''' - To huge, toons don't have a common theme
+
-
* Strong Bad Emails #2 - '''Keep''' I was wrong, this is a template.
+
-
<hr>
+
Wikipedia (and if I'm not mistaken, every other Wiki in existence) has recently taken to desysopping admins who have not edited in a long time. Any chance we could do the same thing? {{User:RickTommy/sig}} 10:05, 20 September 2018 (UTC)
-
--[[User:Stux|Stux]] 03:12, 7 Oct 2005 (UTC)
+
:And the reason to do this would be...? --{{User:Jay/sig}} 10:06, 20 September 2018 (UTC)
-
'' shamlessly adapted from: {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 21:19, 6 Oct 2005 (UTC)'''
+
::I ''slightly'' agree. After all, what's the point of an administrator who hasn't edited in a decade? By my calculations, about 1/5 admins haven't edited in eight or more years. {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig‎}} 20:10, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
-
*Strong Bad Info: '''Keep'''!!!
+
:::Here's a full list of admins' most recent edits:
-
*Peasants Quest - '''Keep'''
+
<table width="25%">
-
*Teen Girl Squad - '''Keep'''
+
<autocolumn cols="3" style="font-size:85%">
-
*Limozeen - '''Keep'''. At least leave members and (some?) songs.
+
*2019 x5
-
*Sightings - '''Keep'''
+
*2018 x2
-
*Cheat Commandos - '''Keep'''. At the very least leave the characters.
+
*2017
-
*Marzipan's Answering Machine - '''Keep''' but make it prettier.
+
*2016 x2
-
*Main Characters - '''Keep'''. Yeah this one should be kept.  
+
*2015
-
*Toons - '''Delort.'''
+
*2014 x2
-
*Shorts - '''Delort.''' BUT if we delete these two, how are we linking back to the "Toons" Page? Maybe make both into a single link to that page?
+
*2013 x2
-
*Videlectrix Games - '''Keep''' Definitely keep.
+
*2011 x3
-
*Stinkoman 20X6 - Need to '''Keep'''
+
*2010
-
*Main Pages - '''Keep''' Definitely keep.
+
*2009 x2
-
*Old Timey - Needs some serious '''Cleaning'''! Shorten.
+
*2008 x2
-
*Strong Bad Emails #2 - Perhaps in the near future we may have to break it up? into say:
+
*2006 x2
-
| < emails 1-75 | email 76 | email 77 | ... | email 99 | email 100 | emails 101-136 > |
+
*2005
-
::Where emails 76..100 would be replaced by the real names.
+
</autocolumn>
-
:::I dunno. As big a monster as the sbemail template is, I kinda like it intact. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 03:25, 7 Oct 2005 (UTC)
+
</table>
-
::::Yeah, but what about when we get to like email #1000!? ;) --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 11:46, 7 Oct 2005 (UTC)
+
:::We have five active admins (those who have edited this year), eight inactive admins (those who have edited since 2014), and thirteen admins with practically no chance of ever editing again (those who haven't edited since 2014). That means exactly ''half'' of the admins haven't edited since [[April Fool 2014]]. Seven of them haven't even edited ''this decade''. And the decade is practically over! {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig‎}} 19:46, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
 +
::::Speaking of inactive sysops, there should probably be a few more sysops to replace the old ones. The last time someone was promoted was in 2007, and that user hasn't edited in over eight years. There are a lot of helpful active users nowadays who could do a lot of good with admin [[privileges|priv-a-le-ges... I guess]]. The wiki might run more smoothly and effectively when there aren't a select few people doing all the important stuff. Things might get done faster this way. {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig‎}} 02:43, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
 +
:::::What things do you think are not getting done? -[[Special:Contributions/174.62.238.201|174.62.238.201]] 13:07, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
 +
::::::I think that things like [[:Category:Pages for Speedy Deletion|deleting pages]], blocking vandals, [[:Category:Page Maintenance|discussions]] (like the ones on this very page), getting approval for important decisions (like this one), and so forth {{--}} even smaller, less important things, like changing the CSS for holidays or updating the featured content {{--}} might be done more quickly with more people involved. Also, the wiki runs on an outdated and unsupported version of MediaWiki from ten years ago, which is a bit dangerous for our security, and more active sysops might help fix that. In short, I think more help would be helpful. {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig‎}} 22:55, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
 +
:::::::Of the things you listed, the only thing that really even applies to sysops is blocking vandals, which is generally a matter of luck as to whether there will be an active sysop when vandalism happens. True more sysops meaans more likelihood of there being one on when a vandal hits, but we don't get all that much vandalism and it's usually taken care of relatively quickly. As for the rest, let me explain why they don't apply to sysops:
 +
:::::::*Deleting pages - Most of the undeleted pages are due to lack of consensus on deletion discussions rather than lack of sysops to perform the deletions.
 +
:::::::*Discussions - Anyone on the wiki can participate in discussions. You don't need to be a sysop to do that. Again, this is more a matter of a lack of general inactivity than it is lack of sysops. Having more sysops is not going to encourage more activity.
 +
:::::::*Getting approval for important decisions (like this one) - Only site admins can approve new sysops. Anything else that needs approval is done by consensus, not by sysop authority. There may be actions that only a sysop can take to make something happen once consensus has been reached, but as with deletion, it's a matter of having enough activity to get consensus.
 +
:::::::*And so forth -  And so forth.
 +
:::::::*Changing the CSS for holidays or updating the featured content - I believe that there are elements of both of these that can only be done by a site admin rather than a sysop, and at least the former tends to be done on a pretty reasonable timeframe.
 +
:::::::*The wiki runs on an outdated and unsupported version of MediaWiki - This one is definitely something that can only be done by a site admin. I'm certain they are aware of it and have plans to deal with it.
 +
:::::::In short, I doubt there's much need for more sysops, and the issues you raise mostly have more to do with general inactivity anyway. One last thing I'd point out is that the wiki's general sysop nomination policy is "[[HRWiki:FAQ#How do I become an admin or sysop?|don't call us, we'll call you]]", that suggestions to add more sysops have historically been met with suspicion and resentment from regular users, and that generally only the site admin team decides whether and when more sysops are necessary. {{User:DeFender1031/sig}} 23:51, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
 +
::::::::Oh, okay. That makes sense. Nevermind then! {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig‎}} 02:08, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
-
<hr>
+
== Outdated Chat Clients ==
-
&mdash; {{User:Lapper/sig}} 17:48, 8 Oct 2005 (UTC)
+
:''Moved from [[HRWiki talk:FAQ]]''
-
* Strong Bad Email #1 - '''Keep''' It's cool. Bulky, but cool.
+
I know for sure that there's still plenty of buzz going around about Homestar and the gang (Especially with the new sbemail released), but my concern is that not a whole lot of people use IRC anymore, I propose that the Admins make an Official Homestar Runner Wiki Discord Server. This way we can do get together and make editing and sharing thoughts a lot easier (If this already exists, Great! Let's try to make it more known) {{unsigned|DonPianta|19:43, 17 August 2017}}
-
* Peasants Quest - '''Keep'''
+
:I agree. IRC Channels are horribly outdated and this would be a great improvement for Wiki discussion. - {{User:Catjaz63/sig}} 22:31, 3 September 2017 (UTC)
-
* Teen Girl Squad - '''Keep''' I like this one.
+
::I agree as well. {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig‎}} 02:18, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
-
* Limozeen - '''Keep''' Not sure what purpose this serves…
+
:::Now that the topic has been {{p|l=http://hrwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Main_Page&diff=778426&oldid=777799 brought up again}} by an anonny, I still think this is a good idea. I've been on the IRC channel a few times, and it is very inactive. Plus, you can only see messages posted when you are online, whereas with Discord, you can view all messages, making discussions more convenient. This way, you don't have to be online 24/7, and if you exit, you can go back and read messages you've missed. Discord is less outdated and more useful in nearly every way. {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig‎}} 18:51, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
-
* Sightings - '''Delete''' The pages are cluttery, anyway.
+
::::Also, this is an especially good idea considering how inactive the forum has been. Discord is a good alternative way to discuss toons and updates, and is practically guaranteed to be more active than the forum, considering how many people use Discord. {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig‎}} 23:37, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
-
* Cheat Commandos - '''Delete''' This stuff should probably fall under toons and/or characters
+
:::::Guess what else is inactive? The Wiki. And as I've said numerous times, there's no point in making a significant change to a Wiki that has lost most of its userbase. {{User:RickTommy/sig}} 02:16, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
-
* Marzipan's Answering Machine - '''Delete''' This thing is almost never updated anyway.
+
::::::You use that as your excuse for everything. Yes, the wiki is less active than it used to be. So what? Why should that keep us from making changes to improve it, and maybe even make it more active? And who's to say this wiki won't become ''more'' active over the years? We may not have that many users right now, but the users we ''do'' have would surely appreciate a more convenient way to communicate. Inactivity shouldn't stop us from making a better wiki. {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig‎}} 06:25, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
-
* Main Characters - '''Keep''' Gotta keep this one.
+
::::::How is making a discord channel a “significant change to the wiki” even? -[[Special:Contributions/174.62.238.201|174.62.238.201]] 15:49, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
-
* Toons & Shorts - '''Keep''' Love those toons.
+
::::Um, what is this... "Discord" you speak of? [[Teen Girl Squad Issue 15|Is a... food?]] Shoehorned referencing aside, I know I'm only an anonymous contributor that only shows up for small things. I have to admit I haven't logged on to a forum for ten years (ugly memories) and have no social media accounts (I believe they are places of evil that consume their user's brains). So I'm a a lot [[Strong Bad's Technology|behind the times and I prefer it that way]]. So I guess having a dedicated chatroom doesn't really apply to me that much. Guess I'll probably go back to expressing myself in edit summaries and hope I'm understood. [[Special:Contributions/68.37.43.131|68.37.43.131]] 13:16, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
-
* Videlectrix Games - '''Delete''' We really don't need to know about all these. There's only, like, 5 games that work.
+
::::::::Right now, we have three users in favor, and one opposed. Anyone else? I see many reasons to do it, and no reasons not to. I think it'll make everything more convenient, and the wiki more active. {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig‎}} 19:46, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
-
* Stinkoman 20X6 - '''Delete''' Really don't need this.
+
In order to revive this proposal, here is a list of advantages Discord has over IRC.
-
* Main Pages - '''Delete''' Nope.
+
*On IRC, you can only see messages sent during your session, which means if you want to see all messages, you have to be online 24/7. On Discord, you can see every message at any time, so you don't always have to be online. It's less of a commitment.
-
* Old Timey - '''Delete''' Big, gray, no point.
+
*It's far more convenient. You can have multiple channels per server, so we can dedicate one to announcements, another for serious discussions, one for welcoming new users and explaining the rules, one for discussing site updates, and so forth.
-
* Strong Bad Emails #2 - '''Keep''' It's spunky. I like it.
+
*No one uses IRC. I don't just mean it's outdated (even though yes, it's definitely outdated, and [[wikipedia:Internet Relay Chat|usage has been declining steadily since 2003]]), but no one on the wiki is ever online. Discord, on the other hand, is used by many. I usually keep it open in a tab in the background, so if I want to drop in, I'd just have to click the HRWiki server icon. The [https://discordapp.com/channels/397308577380958228 Fanstuff Wiki 2 server] is quite active, and used by a few HRWiki users, and it's not even official.
 +
*In order to research these examples, I tried going on IRC, but it wouldn't let me answer the security question (it just showed a blank white screen), so I couldn't enter. That's a sign that we severely need a new method of chat.
 +
*[[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Discord|Wikimedia has its own Discord server]]. Why shouldn't we do the same?
 +
Just think of the possibilities. With an active chat, discussions can be resolved faster, proposals can be implemented quicker, ongoing discussions can be grouped together in one central area, more users would be encouraged to participate, and the live nature of it makes it easier to communicate. We would usher in a new era of the wiki, free of stagnant proposals like this one. That's a bit of an exaggeration, but still, I can see no reason not to do this. So far, the only reason against it has been "it's not worth it", but setting up a server would take all of one minute. I would go ahead and make a dedicated HRWiki server myself, but then it wouldn't be deemed official. So, do the admins have an opinion on this? {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig‎}} 00:03, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
 +
: I'll throw my vote in for Discord. [[User:Guybrush20X6|Guybrush20X6]] 00:30, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
 +
::I've also occasionally suggested setting up a Discord server to my fellow sysops, so I'm highly in favour of an official wiki one. For those who do still use IRC, I know bridge bots exist to link the IRC and Discord chat together (I'm in a server that uses one, so I have direct help if we want/need to set one up). I'm also told it would also be remarkably easy to set up a Discord bot that imitates the functions of our RCBot that keeps track of the recent changes. I'll be honest, that's actually what I use the IRC for most often, and largely the reason I'm still active on the wiki. I'd love to move to Discord and even be able to keep track of the wiki on my phone. Let's bring wiki chats into the 21st century~ --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]] 01:51, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
 +
:::As one of the few Luddite holdouts on IRC, I'd like to see the technology not be fully abandoned in favor of shiny walled gardens with fancy bells and whistles.  If an official Discord channel is created I would definitely like to see a bridge bot implemented so those of us "on the fringe" can still stay in touch. I'd hate to see something like Mozilla [https://www.ghacks.net/2019/04/28/mozilla-to-drop-irc-as-main-communications-platform/ where they completely abandoned IRC and moved everything to Matrix].  Matrix is probably one of the more open options out there, but to me this always means having to install and try out new software just to try and get connected. I'd rather not have to try new software for every project out there.  And several of the concerns above aren't necessarily valid (IRC does let you have multiple channels, bouncers help with the 24/7 problem, and the hrwiki IRC client doesn't work because it ran on Java, which was killed faster than Flash was.) Most of the issues with using IRC are technical, which gives most people a hard time and dissuade them from trying out the technology, so I can understand the decline in interest.  So, again, I would prefer to have options where everyone can use their favourite technology and still remain in touch. (There was also a comment above I'd like to echo: current IRC usage reflects current wiki usage.  Discord usage might face similar trends.)  Okay, enough ranting. Have a good night everyone! --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 03:35, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
 +
:Just a point of order, even if we did set up a Discord server, all wiki content and policy discussions would still have to take place—or at least be duplicated—on wiki talk pages, so I don't know that anything would necessarily be resolved any faster. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 02:50, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
 +
::::Exactly, I'm not saying we should abandon IRC entirely, but it shouldn't be our sole method of real-time, off-wiki communication. The best option is to be able to have, well, options. As for "Discord usage may reflect wiki usage", that is a likely possibility, but not an inevitability. As I've said, I already keep Discord open in a tab on my computer, and I'm sure many others do the same, so making a comment there will probably be easier than doing the same on the wiki. The Homestar Fanstuff Wiki 2 Discord, for instance, is more active than the wiki it's based on, because Discord is just that popular. I am aware that these discussions would have to be duplicated on the wiki, but that's better than stagnant discussions that go nowhere. Sure, a Discord server probably won't change much, but on the other hand, maybe it will, so why not?
 +
::::Also, I apologize for speaking so harshly against IRC earlier. I wasn't aware that my concerns were invalid, and should have done more research before discussing the features IRC was seemingly lacking. But still, even if these features are present on IRC, they are more streamlined on Discord. {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig‎}} 21:20, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
 +
:I'd love to see an official HRWiki Discord server happen as well :)  I'd join it in a heartbeat.  It would be a great way to help energize the H*R community and provide another place to get people talking about H*R again. {{User:Kilroy/sig}} 19:10, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
 +
::Anyone up to taking up the glove and setting up a discord channel? I'm all for it. {{User:Elcool/sig}} 09:52, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 +
:::[[User:Tom|Tom]] created [[HRWiki:Discord server]]. {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig‎}} 22:07, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
-
<hr>
+
== Main Page Redesign Notice ==
-
[[User:BazookaJoe|BazookaJoe]] 18:39, 8 Oct 2005 (UTC)
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-
* Strong Bad Email #1 - '''Keep'''.
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* Peasants Quest - '''Keep'''.
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* Teen Girl Squad - '''Keep'''.
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* Limozeen - '''Delete'''. Use the category.
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* Sightings - '''Keep'''.
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* Cheat Commandos - '''Delete'''. Use the category.
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* Marzipan's Answering Machine - '''Keep'''.
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* Main Characters - '''Keep'''.
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* Toons - '''Delete'''. Use the category.
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-
* Shorts - '''Delete'''. Use the category.
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-
* Videlectrix Games - '''Delete'''. Use the category.
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-
* Stinkoman 20X6 - '''Keep'''.
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* Main Pages - '''Keep'''.
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* Old Timey - '''Delete'''. Use the category.
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-
* Strong Bad Emails #2 - '''Keep'''
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<hr>
+
In just over a week, it will be the two year anniversary of the suggestion to [[HRWiki:Main Page Talk Archive 46#Updated Main Page|redesign the Main Page]]. The [[HRWiki talk:Main page redesign|discussion]] hasn't been very active, and hardly anyone is contributing, despite the fact that this could be one of the largest, most important wiki edits in years. I suggest putting a header over the [[Main Page]], [[Template:recentchangesnotice|recent changes]], or even the [[MediaWiki:sitenotice|entire wiki]]. After all, we did it when we were {{p|l=http://hrwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Template:recentchangesnotice&oldid=385175 redesigning the logo}}. Something like this, perhaps:
-
{{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 19:55, 8 Oct 2005 (UTC)
+
{| cellpadding=3 class="messagebox" style="margin:auto; background-color: #EEF; color:#000; text-align: center; border: 1px #00F solid; font-size: 90%;" |  
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* Strong Bad Email #1 - '''Keep'''.
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| [[File:No Loafing 2.png|40px]]
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* Peasants Quest - '''Keep'''.
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| '''The Homestar Runner Wiki is considering [[HRWiki:Main page redesign|redesigning the Main Page]].'''<br />Your '''[[HRWiki:Main page redesign/Votes|votes]]''' would be greatly appreciated.
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* Teen Girl Squad - '''Keep'''.
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* Limozeen - '''Keep'''.
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* Sightings - '''Keep'''.
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* Cheat Commandos - '''Keep'''.
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* Marzipan's Answering Machine - '''Keep'''.
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-
* Main Characters - '''Keep'''.
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* Toons - '''Keep'''.
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* Shorts - '''Keep'''.
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-
* Videlectrix Games - '''Keep'''.
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-
* Stinkoman 20X6 - '''Keep'''.
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-
* Main Pages - '''Keep'''.
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-
* Old Timey - '''Keep'''.
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* Strong Bad Emails #2 - '''Keep'''
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-
 
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<hr>
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-
--{{User:acekirby13/sig}} 20:07, 8 Oct 2005 (UTC)
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* Strong Bad Email #1 - '''Keep'''.
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* Peasants Quest - '''Keep'''.
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* Teen Girl Squad - '''Keep'''.
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* Limozeen - '''Neutral'''.
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-
* Sightings - '''Keep'''.
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-
* Cheat Commandos - '''Keep'''.
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-
* Marzipan's Answering Machine - '''Keep'''.
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-
* Main Characters - '''Keep'''.
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-
* Toons - '''Keep'''.
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-
* Shorts - '''Keep'''.
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-
* Videlectrix Games - '''Keep'''.
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-
* Stinkoman 20X6 - '''Keep'''.
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-
* Main Pages - '''Keep'''.
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-
* Old Timey - '''Clean it up'''.
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-
* Strong Bad Emails #2 - '''Keep'''.
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* To be direct, they're all useful in some way or another.
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<hr>
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-
--{{User:bkmlb/sig}} 23:27, 8 Oct 2005 (UTC)
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-
* Strong Bad Email #1 - '''Keep'''.
+
-
* Peasants Quest - '''Keep'''.
+
-
* Teen Girl Squad - '''Keep'''.
+
-
* Limozeen - '''Keep'''.
+
-
* Sightings - '''Keep'''.
+
-
* Cheat Commandos - '''Keep'''.
+
-
* Marzipan's Answering Machine - '''Keep'''.
+
-
* Main Characters - '''Keep'''.
+
-
* Toons - '''Keep'''.
+
-
* Shorts - '''Keep'''.
+
-
* Videlectrix Games - '''Keep'''.
+
-
* Stinkoman 20X6 - '''Keep'''.
+
-
* Main Pages - '''Keep'''.
+
-
* Old Timey - '''Clean it up ALOT!'''.
+
-
* Strong Bad Emails #2 - '''Keep'''.
+
-
Templates are used to organize links so they can be viewed all at once.  All of these do that. If the Toons and Shorts don't get kept, somewhere on there should be what kind it is.  As in, on there is the running time, characters and if it's a toon or a short.
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-
 
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:That may be true, but templates are only used if you must say See Also at the bottom of the page.  That is true with some pages, but most do not. {{User:Rogue Leader/sig}} 23:50, 8 Oct 2005 (UTC)
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::There ''is'' a link to the Toons and Shorts at the bottom. Right after the word Category. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 23:58, 8 Oct 2005 (UTC)
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<hr>
+
-
====Totals====
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{| border=1 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=5 style="border-collapse:collapse"
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|- bgcolor=#eeeeee
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! Template !! Keep !! Delete !! Neutral
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|-
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| Strong Bad Email #1 (small) || bgcolor=#eeeeee | 10 || 1 || 1
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|-
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| Peasant's Quest || bgcolor=#eeeeee | 12 || 0 || 0
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|-
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| Teen Girl Squad || bgcolor=#eeeeee | 11½ || ½ <!--The half vote came from DorianGrey--> || 0
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|-
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| Limozeen: || 6 || 6 || 0
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|-
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| Sightings || bgcolor=#eeeeee | 11 || 1 || 0
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|-
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| Cheat Commandos || 6 || 6 || 0
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|-
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| Marzipan's Answering Machine || bgcolor=#eeeeee | 11 || 1 || 0
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|-
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| Main Characters || bgcolor=#eeeeee | 9 || 1 || 2
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|-
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| Toons || 3 || bgcolor=#eeeeee | 9 || 0
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|-
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| Shorts || 3 || bgcolor=#eeeeee | 9 || 0
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|-
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| Videlectrix Games || bgcolor=#eeeeee | 8 || 3 || 1
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|-
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| Decemberween In July || bgcolor=#eeeeee | 2 || 0 || 0 <!--this one was accidentally left out at first, which is why the votes aren't the same total as the others-->
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|-
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| Main Pages || bgcolor=#eeeeee | 9 || 1 || 2
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|-
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| Old Timey || 2 || bgcolor=#eeeeee | 7 || 3 (clean up)
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|-
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| Strong Bad Email #2 (big) || bgcolor=#eeeeee | 12 || 0 || 0
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|}
|}
 +
{{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig‎}} 20:29, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
 +
:The main page is still outdated, and not much is being done about it. I think this notice would be a good way to inform users of the update, and get more peoples' opinions. {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig‎}} 05:30, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
 +
::One somewhat related thing I'd like to point out: the new page design includes twitter updates, however tweets have not been regularly updated since around october. I think that activating the new design (in whatever form it may have) requires a concerted effort to regularly update these tweets. (And I, personally, do not have the time to help out with said task.) --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 13:37, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
 +
:::It doesn't need to be updated regularly just yet, but when it replaces the main page, I'll make sure it stays updated. {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig‎}} 20:05, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
 +
::::Anyone else have an opinion on this? This is a good way to get more users into the discussion and finally get a consensus on possibly the most important wiki decision of recent times. {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig‎}} 19:46, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
 +
:::::It has been over three years since the update was suggested, and I think it's at least as important as changing the logo, which had a notice above the recent changes. There is so much empty space and outdated information on the current main page, and the [[HRWiki:Main page redesign|new one]] is much more informative and aesthetically pleasing in my opinion, and yet nothing is being done about it. {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig‎}} 21:35, 1 January 2020 (UTC)
 +
::::::Adding this notice is another obvious decision that I would make myself if I had the rights. The Main Page is undergoing a major necessary change, but nothing's changing without involvement. And what better way to get involvement than from a technique we've used before? It seemed to work fine when we did it for the new logo. {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig‎}} 00:03, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
 +
:::::::I generally try not to "bump" discussions with nothing more to add than "This still hasn't happened", but... yeah, this still hasn't happened. And not only that, but no one has commented on the suggestion. I find the new main page so much better in so many ways, and each day it pains me to know that it is merely rotting away in the HRWiki namespace, for I know not when its beauty may be unleashed unto the world for all wiki-goers to gaze upon in awe and profound admiration for years to come. So, bump. {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig‎}} 21:20, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
 +
::::::::Count in my vote for a redesign notice. It seems like one of the best ways to get this www dot main page redesign on the road dot com, and that seems like a thing that should happen. {{User:Lira/sig}} 09:03, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
 +
:::::::::Most users probably aren't even aware of the redesign, as it only shows up on recent changes occasionally. This would be a way to raise awareness of the project, since we need much more involvement if we want to have consensus. Now that there's a [[HRWiki:Main page redesign/Votes|voting page]] for users to easily give their input, now's a better time than ever. {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig‎}} 22:59, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
 +
::::::::::I agree with a main page header, I only noticed it because I crawl around Recent Changes and other talk/project pages. The most-voted-on one only has five votes and there are more active users than that. --{{User:Bleu Ninja/sig}} 17:34, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
-
==Bug 3231==
+
== @StrongBadActual Bot ==
-
I'm sure some of you have noticed, but be aware of [http://bugzilla.wikipedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3231 bug 3231].[[User:Tom|<nowiki></nowiki>]]  --  [[User:Tom|Tom]] 20:44, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
+
{{see|HRWiki:Projects/@StrongBadActual Bot}}
-
:Here's the easiest way to recover from that bug:
+
== Interwiki-style updates and maintenance ==
-
:1. Go to the affected page's history.
+
{{see|HRWiki:Projects/Interwiki-style updates and maintenance}}
-
:2. View/restore deleted edits. Hit the restore button.
+
-
:3. Go back to the affected page, which will still redirect to itself.
+
-
:4. Go to the history. There should be two items, view the second.
+
-
:5. View previous version. View previous version again.
+
-
:6. Hit the edit tab, confirm that it's the article and not the redirect, and save.
+
-
:Anyone have a better way? {{User:Homestar Coder/sig}} 20:50, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
+
-
::Nope, that's the correct workaround.[[User:Tom|<nowiki></nowiki>]]  --  [[User:Tom|Tom]] 20:54, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
+
== Homestar Runner Updates 20X6 ==
-
 
+
-
:::Is there a better place we could put this solution? It took me a while to figure it out and BazookaJoe was having trouble with it too (yesterday). {{User:Homestar Coder/sig}} 20:56, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
+
-
 
+
-
::::<s>This may sound trivial, but just to be sure: it would prolly be a good idea that the two admins involved in the collision agree which of the two will fix the problem (lest another collision occur).</s>  Would it be possible to have some kind of log that would allow admins to mark which pages they are reverting in order to avoid this in the first place? --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 21:13, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
+
-
 
+
-
::::Hi guys! As an exercise in thought I figured I'd try to see why this bug occurs.  In fact it's not a bug per se, but a side effect of all of the wiki features running properly, but doing so concurrently. Anyway, I wrote down step by step what happens between the two admins and the contents of each page (where oldpage is the original wiki name, and newpage is the new vandalized name). I hope this isn't mind-numingly obvious to all, but serves as an informative tidbit about computer stuff.  And I like pretty tables.
+
-
::::{| border = 1 cellspacing=0  style="border-collapse:collapse"
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-
| colspan=4 bgcolor=#eeeeee align = center | Order of execution
+
-
|-
+
-
| align=center | Step || align=center | Admin A || align=center | Admin B || align=center | Page contents
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-
|-
+
-
| align=center | 1 || Initiates Request to move page  || Initiates Request to move page || '''oldpage''' = redirect to new page name<br> '''newpage''' = real contents <br> ''this is the original state, nothing has happened yet''
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-
|-
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-
| align=center | 2 ||  || Completes Request to move page || '''oldpage''' = real contents<br> '''newpage''' = redirect to old page name
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-
|-
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-
| align=center | 3 || Completes Request to move page ||  || '''oldpage''' = redirect to old page name<br> '''newpage''' = redirect to old page name <br> ''the redirect to the old page name from the previous transfer is what gets copied, not the text and history we want to move''
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-
 
+
-
|}
+
-
::::--[[User:Stux|Stux]] 21:38, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
+
-
 
+
-
== A solution to the problem ON WHEELS! ==
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-
Willy on Wheels has decided that he likes this Wiki... but I'm wondering if there isn't some way to thwart him besides just reverting and blocking his names. On the "Protect" prompt, there is a button labelled "Protect from moves only." Is this what it sounds like? Can this be used to prevent a page from being moved... without making it uneditable? I think I would like to test this... --{{User:Jay/sig}} 20:46, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
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-
 
+
-
Uh, Jay, this was already brung up. {{User:Rogue Leader/sig}} 20:47, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
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-
 
+
-
: Was it? Hold on, let me look for it. --{{User:Jay/sig}} 20:49, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
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-
 
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-
::Check out [[HRWiki:Da Basement#Willy On Wheels Strikes Again]]. {{User:Homestar Coder/sig}} 20:51, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
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-
 
+
-
::: I see that now (dang me for not using Control-F). Tom seems to think it a bad idea, but as I stated up there:
+
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+
-
:::''I see where you're coming from, and this applies to many pages... but to 'toon pages? I mean, is [[suntan]] or [[Strong Bad is a Bad Guy]] likely to be moved legitimately at any point in the future?'' --{{User:Jay/sig}} 20:54, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
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+
-
I like this Wiki because I don't want to lose my sysop account on Wikipedia!  Since I don't get to be a sysop here, I just vandalize! [[User:WOW sock|WOW sock]] 21:33, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
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-
:If you didn't vandalize, then you could become a sysop here, too. - {{User:Kookykman/sig}}
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::EDIT: Woah! I forgot who this guy was. Do all of his accounts have any kind of common IP? We could do an IP range block...if you can do that on MediaWiki. - {{User:Kookykman/sig}}
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-
:::Unfortunately, I believe Willy has a dynamic IP. It changes every time he enters the site. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
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It's now becoming obvious that a waiting period of at least one day should be enacted before a user can move pages. We've had about 3 WoWs in the same number of hours, and I honestly think those sockpuppets could have been blocked given the usernames. If we change [[Template:welcome]] to reflect this, then I don't think new users will have much of a problem with not being able to move pages. --{{User:Venusy/Sig}}, 22:59, 24 October 2005 (BST)
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==Willy On Wheels Strikes Again==
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''I don't think that he is going to come back. I think that he knows that this is a lot smaller than Wikipedia, and will move to a different wiki.'' -- [[User:Rogue Leader|<span style="color:#00AF33">Rogue Leader</span>]]
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Looks like that's not the case. Just thought I'd meantion to whoever didn't know, he just struck again, moved a bunch of pages, and was valiantly thwarted by [[User:Kilroy|Kilroy]]. Isn't there anything more we can do that will be a bit longer lasting than a few days? {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 22:29, 3 Sep 2005 (UTC)
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:Kilroy did the blocking, but don't forget [[User:Some HSR themed username|Some HSR themed username]]. He moved the pages back to where they belong so fast that I couldn't even help him. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 22:40, 3 Sep 2005 (UTC)
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::I have added [[User:Be's careful]] to [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Vandalism in progress/Willy on Wheels|Wikipedia:Vandalism in progress/Willy on Wheels]]. See the inter-wiki section. He not only vandalizes WP and Wikitionary, but WP in other languages, and other wikis like ours. &mdash;[[User:BazookaJoe|BazookaJoe]] 01:00, 4 Sep 2005 (UTC)
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This guy has some serious problems.  At least it isn't nearly as bad as Wikipedia. {{User:Rogue Leader/sig}} 01:09, 4 Sep 2005 (UTC)
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:Dude! He's a wiki-vandalism-maniac! (Excuse the non-SySop-type person post please.) --[[User:Ookelaylay|Ookelaylay]] 22:21, 4 Sep 2005 (UTC)
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::Oh man. That guy is. . . well, persistent normally applies to diligent, good-natured people, but Willy is darn persistent on Wikipedia. Wow. &mdash; {{User:Lapper/sig}} 1:51, 17 Sep 2005 (CST)
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:Ah peas! He's back, as [[User:Homestar walker|Homestar walker]]! Didn't someone block the IP range last time this happened? --{{User:Venusy/Sig}}, 17:34, 23 September 2005 (BST)
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:It's like playing pong...yeah, that address needs to be blocked. Now. {{User:Thesmokingmonkey/sig}}16:36, 23 Sep 2005 (UTC)
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:Wait, so he moved pages and now is removing his vandilisim?  What the heck?--{{User:bkmlb/sig}} 16:41, 23 Sep 2005 (UTC)
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::<strike>Well, he's still moving stuff, so he's not repentant. It's an insincere apology, I think.</strike> Man, in the five minutes I go to put a pizza in the oven, look what happens. You'd think he'd tire of this by now. He's been doing it forever. What kinda pleasure does he get from it? --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
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::'''EDIT:''' Misread the recent changes. He did stop, but I still don't buy his story.
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::Dunno - I mean, if annoying people you don't know is how you get through the day, then that's what you do. It's curious, though - without the internet, what would this guy/girl do? Make prank phone calls? It almost makes me want to crack the old pscyh books and try to figure out what stage of mental development everything went wrong for this guy...almost. {{User:Thesmokingmonkey/sig}} 16:51, 23 Sep 2005 (UTC)
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:::Or maybe he's just plain bored.  (I'd like to think I have a bit of expertise in the matter, being WOW myself.) [[User:Homestar walker|Homestar walker]] 16:54, 23 Sep 2005 (UTC)
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:Maybe there's more than one or something?  I mean, anyone could create a WOW style account and start moving pages.  I could be a respected contributor or something.  [[User:Homestar walker|Homestar walker]] 16:49, 23 Sep 2005 (UTC)
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:But you're a page-move vandal. Were you planning on contributing? {{User:Thesmokingmonkey/sig}}
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::Maybe, if I can find something to contribute.  If not, I won't vandalize UNLESS I am blocked. [[User:Homestar walker|Homestar walker]] 16:56, 23 Sep 2005 (UTC)
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:::There's always something to contribute. Everyone has a specialty. Some people just help with smaller edits and things. You don't need to do something big to be respected. Take me for example. I was here for months before we found a use for my [[Sound Effects|love of making lists]]. But page-moving's not a good way to get noticed. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
+
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:::I know, so I'm now trying to find an anon welcome template (see my contributions for my attempt at welcoming an anon.) [[User:Homestar walker|Homestar walker]] 17:01, 23 Sep 2005 (UTC)
+
-
::::Okay, Walker, it's like this: this is a community. Certain behaviors are expected from members of the community. A new member of the community might not initially realize what they are doing is not approved by the community until somebody tells them so. And, as a representative of the community, I'm telling you: you cannot come in here, vandalize half a dozen pages, repent, and then threaten to do it again ''if'' you are blocked. I'm sorry to say you ''will'' be blocked, because people are blocked for behavior nowhere near as bad as yours was. If you are truly sorry for what you've done, that's fine - but that still doesn't erase the fact that you kept at it for over five minutes. The sysops are not very forgiving of such willful and brazen behavior, and whether or not they forgive your behavior is entirely up to them.{{User:Thesmokingmonkey/sig}} 17:08, 23 Sep 2005 (UTC)
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'''Uh-oh!''' Now I see a user called [[User:No_wheels|No wheels]]. Don't know if it's WOW, but this person blanked [[Gavin]] except for the words "No wheels". could somebody please check him/her out? Name sounds close, but I don't know just how comparatively close it is to all the other incarnations of WOW. {{User:ACupOfCoffee/sig}} 06:31, 28 Sep 2005 (UTC)
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:According to [[Special:Log/Block|the block log]], he's got a ban of indefinite for been WoW. So presumably, yes, he is WoW. --{{User:Venusy/Sig}}, 07:36, 28 September 2005 (BST)
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:Another Troll. His name's [[User:Hydro]]. He's blanked or vandalized at least 50 pages within the past half hour or so. Maybe a Wow? &mdash; {{User:Lapper/sig}} 12:32, 28 Sep 2005 (UTC)
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::Just a regular troll.  Blanking's not Willy's MO. {{User:Some HSR themed username/sig}} 12:34, 28 Sep 2005 (UTC)
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+
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:::Maybe so, but that doesn't make him any less annoying. He needs to be blocked. &mdash; {{User:Lapper/sig}} 12:35, 28 Sep 2005 (UTC)
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+
-
Oh my goodness... [[User:Me ON WHEELS!]], et al. '''(groan)'''. {{User:ACupOfCoffee/sig}} 05:05, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
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+
-
:Okay, so, HomestarCoder, Me ON WHEELS!, and the hundreds of random created usernames that filled up the [[Special:Recent changes|recent changes]] page. Did you know that until HomestarCoder moved it, [[User:Stu|Stu]]'s user page hadn't been touched for two days less than a full year? &mdash; {{User:Lapper/sig}} 12:27, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
+
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+
-
::Note: Homestar Coder != HomestarCoder. ;) {{User:Homestar Coder/sig}} 14:56, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
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-
:::It's kinda weird... EVERY time Willy's struck, I've been up getting something to eat. And half those times, it's been pizza. I should do the wiki a favour and stop eating, eh? Also, this was the first time I got moved in a Willy attack. And I also saw the names 'DorianBlack' and 'DorianWhite' among those new creations. I mus' be getting popular to have a play on my name for eventual trolling, eh? --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
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+
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::::I was eating pizza too. Clearly pizza attracts Willy on Wheels. Also, "congrats" on getting your own troll-parody name ;) {{User:Homestar Coder/sig}} 15:22, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
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:::::''(This snippet is the intended reply to these messages, copied from the section [[HRWiki:Da_Basement#Deterrence|below]]):'' LOL. On my behalf "congratz" too! I can't say I have been so blessed (as you or Homestar Coder). --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 16:52, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
+
-
Uh oh. Look at the first 29 users (I'm not sure about 1. ! though) on [[Special:Listusers]]. All of them have ON WHEELS, or a variant of an established username in the username. If you don't want to click the link, then
+
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<blockquote>
+
-
# !
+
-
# !!!!Willy on Wheels has an admin account on Wikipedia
+
-
# !!!Wikipedia ON WHEELS!
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-
# !!!Willy ON WHEELS! AKA Homestar Coder
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# !!AOL on Wheels!!
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# !!Admin on WHEELS!!
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-
# !!BAZOOKA JOE ON WHEELS!!
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-
# !!Bubs on Wheels!!
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-
# !!Coach Z on Wheels!!
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-
# !!Grape Nuts on Wheels!!
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-
# !!Homesar on Wheels!!
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# !!Homestar runner on wheels!!
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# !!It's dot com!
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# !!Its dot org!!
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# !!JOEY DAY ON WHEELS!!
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# !!Jimbo Wales on Wheels!!
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# !!Marzipan on Wheels!!
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# !!Spam on Wheels!!
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# !!Strong Bad on Wheels!!
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# !!Strong Mad on Wheels!!
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# !!Strong Sad on Wheels!!
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# !!The Cheat on Wheels!!
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# !!Vandal on Wheels!!
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# !!WILLY ON WHEELS
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# !!WILLY ON WHEELS!!
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# !!Wheels on Wheels!!
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# !!Wheels without Wheels!!
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# !!Wheels!!
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# !!Willy on Wheels!!</blockquote>
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:Can a sysop block all/most of these (depending if ! is WoW)? And the ON WHEELS users lower down on [[Special:Listusers]]? --{{User:Venusy/Sig}}, 11:32, 25 October 2005 (BST)
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:::'''EDIT''': Whoops! According to [[Special:Log/block]], all of the above (except "!") were blocked this month. Sorry.
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::Well, Venusy, as noted in the following comments below, we might be able to, but it could be an inconvenience. &mdash; {{User:Lapper/sig}} 11:41, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
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::Hey guys, have you seen [[Wikipedia:User:Homestar_Runner_on_Wheels|this]] WOW sockpuppet? *Shudder* &mdash; {{User:Lapper/sig}}
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=== Deterrence ===
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''(This was a reply to Dorian Gray and Homestar Coder's messages on 15:22, 24 October 2005):'' LOL. On my behalf "congratz" too! I can't say I have been so blessed (as you or Homestar Coder). ''(From here on, this is a new topic):'' I was thinking, why not write a script that would prevent page moves/usernames to contain the string "ON WHEELS" (case insentive, ignore whitespace) that would disallow such moves/creations without the approval of an admin?  I'm not sure if this is what wikipedia does (it's [[Wikipedia:Willy_on_wheels|close]] but more stringent), and of course, the attacker can switch to "0n \/\/|=|33lz" or something crazy like that but at least it would deter the On wheels joke. --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 16:52, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
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:As an aside: In contrast to Wikipedia, HRwiki's page names are pretty static (that includes user names) -- generally things are added to the homestar world, note renamed, I don't see much harm in globally protecting all pages from being moved/renamed.  In the event of such necessity sysops could do the move/rename through some request system.  If this is too burdensome, is it possible to grant a certain set of non-sysop users page-move privileges?--[[User:Stux|Stux]] 16:57, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
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::While what you suggest is possible, it's best not to inconvience ourselves in any way, shape, or form because of a troll.  That's what they are trying to do and we should try not to help them.[[User:Tom|<nowiki></nowiki>]]  --  [[User:Tom|Tom]] 17:56, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
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:::I agree with Tom, but I have a question. There was talk that this version of MediaWiki would prevent a user from moving pages until they had some small number of edits. This was to prevent Willy on Wheels so that we could catch them in the trolling edits stage rather than in the massive page-move stage. It also would not be much of an inconvenience to anyone since pages are moved so infrequently and usually moved by users who have been around at least a bit. Does this ability exist? What do you think about exercising it, if it does? {{User:Homestar Coder/sig}} 18:25, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
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::::I did see a mention of that somewhere before we installed 1.5, but I don't believe it actually exists/works.  There are bugs filed [http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/] relating to the issue that I was hoping to link to, but I can't at the moment since the MediaWiki Bugzilla server is down.[[User:Tom|<nowiki></nowiki>]]  --  [[User:Tom|Tom]] 18:38, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
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:::::Um, yeah nevermind my "on wheels" idea -- that's too cumbersome.  However, I don't see the 'move' protection idea that unfeasable.  If 1.5 does not implement that already I could forsee two simple(?) code changes: make all newly created pages move-protected by default (this would alter the PHP SQL query for handling new pages), and then apply an SQL script that would make all current pages move-protected.  This is assuming there is such a flag (I thought I remembered a discussion about some pages about this), which would allow general page edits, but not moves. --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 19:00, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
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This is a wiki.  The number ONE rule of any wiki is that anyone can edit.  So, maybe some annony thinks of a better name title down the road, tries to move it, and bam, he can't move it.  Reverting move trolling isn't that hard.  I think its even fun to combat our friend Willy. {{User:Rogue Leader/sig}} 20:26, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
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:I see where you're coming from, and this applies to many pages... but to 'toon pages? I mean, is [[suntan]] or [[Strong Bad is a Bad Guy]] likely to be moved legitimately at any point in the future? --{{User:Jay/sig}} 20:51, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
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::Very true, but I really don't think that we shouldn't go to extremes to stop WOW.  i really think that it is simple to remove his moves (Excuse the pun). {{User:Rogue Leader/sig}} 20:56, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
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::: I disagree; an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. --{{User:Jay/sig}} 20:57, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
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::::It is almost fun to stop his vandalism. I can imagine he's surprised at how resilient we are. I would rather block moves than have to deal with this, though. - {{User:Kookykman/sig}}
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:::::Jay, it is probably ok to block moves from 'toons and games, but other articles not so much.  {{User:Rogue Leader/sig}} 22:23, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
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::::::I'm somewhere between Jay and Rogue, but leaning more toward Jay. I think you could protect basically anything that's not likely to change: Toons, Games, Characters... Anything that has an official name or isn't likely to be given an official name, due to its being a one-time joke or something. There's really very little that's likely to need a renaming. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
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:::::::Yeah, thats what I meant.  Like, protect [[Homestar Runner]] from moves, but not [[Jack Hamma]]. {{User:Rogue Leader/sig}} 22:33, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
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::::::::I don't see what that would accomplish. There would be enough pages left that he could simply target those that remained unprotected. It takes just as much effort to have to fix a [[Jack Hamma]] that gets moved as it does a [[Strong Bad Email]]. And then there's also the danger, however unlikely, that a rarely-seen page would get lost in the shuffle. Therefore, since it would be such a hassle to pick and choose which pages to protect, and the benefit might not even be realized, I think the page-move protection should apply uniformly to every page with one setting (that Tom would handle) or not at all. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 22:45, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
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I just can't imagine that he will this up for long.  He basically has no life and is probably under 13 years old.  He can't find this fun for long.  I think he gets the picture that every move he makes is fixed almost instantly.  He will get bored of this game soon.  {{User:Invisible_Robot_Fish/sig}} 22:50, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
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::You'd think so, wouldn't you. People have predicted for a while that the attacks would stop eventually, but that does not seem to be the case. Additionally, we don't know how many copycats are out there. I doubt this is the same guy who's vandalizing Wikipedia (I mean, seriously, who are we?), but you never know. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 22:57, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
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::: I realize that protecting only some of the pages from moves won't fix the problem completely, but I suspect that what he does is hit "Random Page" on the sidebar and move whatever he hits, sometimes targetting a specific page. (Because there really doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to the pages he moves.) If a significant number of pages were protected from moves, it would, at the very least, be strong discouragement. And here's the big question: why ''not'' protect 'toon/character with official name pages from moves? What does it hurt if we do? --{{User:Jay/sig}} 01:29, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
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:::: User pages need to be protected too -- it is not every day (except maybe upgrade to 1.5 day) that a user changes the name of his/her page (subpages perhaps, but even then).  I think it makes more sense (and would probably be less laborious) to protect all pages.  --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 01:46, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
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::::: It's not that I disagree, because I don't, but many people (including, apparently, Tom) don't like the concept of making lesser pages unmoveable by ordinary users. I was trying to find a middle ground, but I do agree that page moves are mostly unnecessary on this Wiki - only a very few pages here are likely to ever be moved, especially since most of the big pages are given the same name as 'toons or characters that TBC do. --{{User:Jay/sig}} 01:52, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
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:::::: I am pulling a John Kerry on this one, but now I think that it isn't the wiki way.  [[HRWiki_talk:The_Stick]] says that, while a page may not be edited, it is still an extreme to protect it. {{User:Rogue Leader/sig}} 19:22, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
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::::::: But apparently trolling is the Wiki way? I'm not suggesting that we protect the pages from any edits at all, I'm merely suggesting that we prevent pages that have no excuse to be moved from being moved. --{{User:Jay/sig}} 10:05, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
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::::::::That's not going to solve anything. There will always be movable pages in the Talk:, User:, User talk:, HRWiki, HRWiki talk:, Template:, Template talk:, Help:, and Help talk: namespaces. &mdash;[[User:BazookaJoe|BazookaJoe]] 11:46, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
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:::::::::Yes, that is why my suggestion has been to protect from any moves '''all''' pages within this site, but not protect them from edits. --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 13:34, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
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Okay, seriously. Someone take a good look at the [[Special:Log/move|Move Log]]. The only non-vandal and non-de-vandal edits were the removal of minor typos, changed usernames from the last move, and mis-remembering which toon a STUFFed fact came from: 7 in the last 100 or so, 5 of them by sysops anyway. 9 in the last 200. Sooner or later, someone's likely to miss one of Willy's vandal moves for even just a little too long. It's such an easy fix that will barely impact the regular usage of the Wiki. Are we just going to keep letting him do it? --{{User:Jay/sig}} 21:23, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
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:I say no. We won't let him. Why even have the 'protect from page moves only' option if not to use it against vandals? I see very little drawback to it, especially after you posted those figures. I'm all for move protection to any extent. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
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::I too am in agreement with {{User:Jay/sig}} to protecting page moves from all but sysops, or perhaps a seperate group of any common trusted users below sysops with page move privilages. I'm sure that he would probably just move on to edit or page create vandalisms, but it would be an easier revert than moves. {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 21:51, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
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:::I agree with Thunderbird, here. The topic of "mover" users has been brainstormed before, and it would be a nicer alternative then having to manually revert every WOW move. &mdash; {{User:Lapper/sig}} 21:53, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
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And now I'd just like to point this thing out again... As if we need reminding after today's hat trick. Surely anyone who was present during this can agree that we need to start the page-move protection for, well, just about everything. There was even an occurrence which a page was updated while under its WoW influence (a STUFF page, I believe). This needs to stop, yeah? We've seen the statistics, and the damage. Now we need some action. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
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: If it was up to me, I'd have already done something. But it's not up to me. --{{User:Jay/sig}} 06:42, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
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:Here, here!! I'm all for it after today's "hat trick", as DorianGray called it. {{User:ACupOfCoffee/sig}} 06:47, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
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::It's not like we do nothing when the defacement occurs.  The most recent comments almost make it sound like all we do is watch it happen.
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::However, we will not be move-protecting pages.  It's not the wiki way.  Besides, it's not like they couldn't just find a different way to deface.  It's not hard to deface a wiki.  But it's also not hard to fix the defacement.[[User:Tom|<nowiki></nowiki>]]  --  [[User:Tom|Tom]] 06:52, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
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:::All right. After looking at it with these comments in mind, I see the other side. It is really easy fixed. I just wish there was more we could do. The wiki's my second home. More than that, it's a friend of mine, really. And I just don't like when people mess with my friends. But I'm-a hereby dropping the subject and going to bed. Good night, fair wiki. Maybe one day you will see an internet utopia where your pages remain untroubled. I look forward to that day, as I'm sure we all do. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
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::::While I'm not much of a troll fighter myself (Those are too fast for the common gmone that I am), our wiki is the first site I chack when I wake up, and the last site I close when I go to sleep. This morning (My morning, your evening) I even tried to chat on the IRC channle while chacking for updates and got too distracted to do both. I had two options: The quit the chat channel or to stop chacking the wiki. I choose the latter. {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 08:34, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
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:::::Sleep is a good thing! Let me tell ya... My posts should be more coherent now ;).  First, E.L. you said that you chose to quit ''the latter''.  So you chose to stop chacking the wiki? I'm just making sure cuz I always have trouble myself using the correct one (''former vs. latter'') much like I can confuse left and right (''no, no, your ''other'' left!'').
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:::::I don't know why I didn't think of this earlier! Way up at the beginning of this discussion, I mentioned an SQL query and code change would do the trick (ha! how misguided I was -- even that would be a lot of work!), it would actually be an even simpler thing to protect all pages, past, present, and future, from moves this way: modify the code for the SpecialMovepage.php object to only allow the appropriate users to access its features! This should only be a few lines of well-placed code.
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:::::Why did I make mention of this?  While it may not be the Wiki way to take such drastic measures, I do ask that we step back and reflect on our philosophy for Wiki...ing. As far as understand, the Wiki way is not a set of rules written in stone, but rather a solid set of guidelines built on common sense and a dream.  Most of the rules in the big wiki I am sure arose out of guidelines and user experience in order to formulate the best course of action to take in the case where there are problems.  I wouldn't be surprised if many of them arouse out of the consensus of Wiki's many users and administrators.  Each set of rules is developed under a certain context: the big Wiki's amazingly large article count, as well as user base, has made their set of rules into what it is.
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:::::Our situation is a little different, as has been pointed out in previous posts in this thread, and the consensus here seems to move in a slightly different direction.  Even the big Wiki's own [[Wikipedia:Page-move protection|Page-move protection policy]] mentions the policy being appropriate ''in cases of frequent or on-going page-move vandalism'', which almost seems like our case (compared to the number of actual moves we do).  The article makes little mention of when not to move pages.  So personally, I don't think this is actually such a drastic measure given our circumstances, and the context in which our policies can be built upon. This proposed policy would not inconvenience others, but rather aleviate some of the work done by already-busy administrators.  Please understand, I am in no way trying to dictate what to do -- it has been you, not me, who has been entrusted to be the keepers and guardians of this wonderful wiki.  I am just hoping that what I say is reasonable, and that in the end would prove to be a good thing for this wiki. Good day all! --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 16:14, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
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::::::The latter - I choose stying on the wiki. {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 18:41, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
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::::::If we ''did'' lock the page moves, I think it would be simple matter of putting a <nowiki>{{tobemoved}}</nowiki> template on a page. Sysops could then check a To Be Moved page just like we check the To Be Deleted page. It would take some getting used to, but given the relative infrequency of real page moves, I don't think it would be that much more work compared to fighting vandals. So the technical side is easy; what I'm more concerned about is the philosophical side:
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::::::&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I'm ambivalent toward this issue. On the one hand, this is a real and annoying problem, but on the other hand, if we do anything about it, it won't actually affect my ability to move pages. So I pose this question to you non-sysops who are advocating limiting or eliminating page moves by regular users: '''Are you really comfortable giving up your rights just to satisfy this troll and the problem he's creating?''' Think carefully about that one, because it sets a serious precedent. Now, here's the kicker&mdash;the answer to the question may be ''yes''. Perhaps you ''are'' willing to give up functionality in return for security. It is a sad but true fact that houses all have locks, and some even have burglar alarms. There are a thousand other examples you could find like that in any society. Note, however, that I am not necessarily advocating locking page moves as the correct course of action; I'm merely saying that you should realize what you're asking for and the potential ramifications. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 16:51, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
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:::::::Yes. Yes, I would. I operate by the creed 'better safe than sorry'. And it wouldn't really be that much different from my view. I like the To Be Moved idea as well. And I also point out of the Help:Contents problem we're also currently having. That required some sort of extremism too... --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
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I just had a thought, someone hit me with a clue-by-four if it's been suggested already on Wikipedia or somewhere, but the main problem is basically that reverting each page move individually is tedious, Yes? The Wiki Way is that mistakes should be easy to fix rather than hard to make - what we need is a way to make it easier to en masse revert page moves. Perhaps someone (either here or from the wikipedia community) could develop a (presumably sysop-only for obvious reasons) "revert all edits/moves by this user" button? {{User:Phlip/sig}} 17:58, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
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:Ooh, ooh. I like that. I never would have thought of that myself. Would such a thing be possible to develop? My knowledge of current technology is somewhat limited... --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
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As a non-sysop here, I'd have to say that I '''despise''' the idea of losing my ability to move pages because of a troll. Moving pages might not happen too often, but I have used it successfully in the past. (for example, Cheat Commandos Commercial --> Cheat Commandos (toon) ) Some of you admins might not care about page moving becoming sysop-only, but as a normal user I know I'd hate to lose that ability. Here's hoping that you guys can figure out a better way. (I like the whole sysop-only "revert all edits by that user" idea.) - {{User:Joshua/sig}} 18:18, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
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:I think it will be hard to some users to give up on something ones they added it. Wouldn't you like to being able to delete pages? To block trolls? I know I do. I see a vandeled page and the thing I want to do the most is go right there and smack that dumb troll back to his cave. But I can't. And that's the way it is now. But if I did had that power, as a plain-old user, and someone took it from my hands I would be outraged to. Who are those sysops think they are? Taking my rights to delete and block? The same thing goes to moving pages. If you didn't had that right in the first place, would you realy miss it? {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 18:41, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
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::Ok. To make that I wrote clearer, this is what I meant: The only reason you object to protecting the pages from moves, is because you could move them in the first place. If you never had that right, you would never miss it. {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 19:03, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
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:::Yeah, but it doesn't really matter now, does it? If you never ever touched any type of electronics, you wouldn't miss computers, TVs or the internet. But now it's too late. You'd miss them. Ah, well. Basically, true as your statement may be, it doesn't change the fact that I'd hate to lose those powers. - {{User:Joshua/sig}} 19:09, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
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::::Reply to Philip's idea, I would love it if they developed that. But I think it would be too dangerous, unless it had a built in 'hour time limit' or so. Otherwise some sysop accidentally reverts 5 years worth of edits, it could be chaos. {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 01:26, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
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:::::When a sysop views a user's contributions, he or she has a "rollback" link next to each edit that is the most recent for the article.  These edits are also marked with '''(top)''' for all users, sysops or not.[[User:Tom|<nowiki></nowiki>]]  --  [[User:Tom|Tom]] 01:44, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
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::::::Hmmm, you're right. I never really thought of it that way. Although technically it's not a central button, it's a page with the buttons all right there though, which is almost as good. {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 05:24, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
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:::::::I'm curious, does this button only work when the edit is the '''(top)''' edit? --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 05:32, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
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::::::::Yes, the rollback button only works for the top edit. Only sysops have it, if you're looking for it. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 05:48, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
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:::::::::Thanks! Oh, yeah I knew only sysops have it.  I may have delusions of gradeur time and again but um... oops did I just say that out loud?  I wanted to know the limits of its functionality. --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 05:51, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
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: BTW, in case no one knows, Wikipedia's policy is:
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:<blockquote>Wikipedia now only allows users with 25 edits or above to make page moves, and the reason must be stated.</blockquote>
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:Found [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Vandalism|here]]. --{{User:Jay/sig}} 23:32, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
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::That sounds like a good policy to me. That way, normal users aren't penalized, and trolls will be discouraged, or be caught and banned before they start moving pages. I am in favor of this if it can be done here. {{User:Homestar Coder/sig}} 00:32, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
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:::I am also for this idea, but I think we should change the guideline to 25 ''main namespace'' edits to be sure that the user is actaully here for the benefit of the wiki. {{User:Some HSR themed username/sig}} 00:37, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
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::::Just for my knowledge, and so I can understand what's being suggested, what defines a ''main namespace'' edit, as opposed to just any edit? [[User:Heimstern Läufer|Heimstern Läufer]] 00:57, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
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:::::"Main namespace" is the part of the wiki with the articles. The part that doesn't have "User:" or "HRWiki:" or "Help:" or something in front of it. But can someone tell ''me'' if that includes those articles' talk pages? --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
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:::::Talk pages are in the Talk: space, not the main space. {{User:Homestar Coder/sig}} 01:00, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
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::::::Thanks for the info, Dorian Gray and H*C. Yes, this sounds like a good idea, as it wouldn't affect non-sysops who are still good Wiki-editors and might deter some trolls. [[User:Heimstern Läufer|Heimstern Läufer]] 01:03, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
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:::::::Sounds good to me too, and it sounds like it'll make everybody happy. Any objections to doing what the big ol' 'pedia does? {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 07:19, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
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::::::::I don't think there's any way someone with the inexperience of under 25 main edits would be able to move a page for the better anyway. I say do it. - {{User:Joshua/sig}} 11:59, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
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:::::::::I agree, but with one question: how did they set that up from within the software? I'll try to research this, but if anyone else can find some clear instructions it would be very helpful. I have no problem setting this up as soon as I know how. &mdash; {{User:JoeyDay/sig}} 17:40, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
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::::::::::It's a hack in the backend code.  I could set it up.  Let me know.[[User:Tom|<nowiki></nowiki>]]  --  [[User:Tom|Tom]] 18:33, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
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:::::::::::I think it's worth it. If you know how to set it up, I say go for it. One caveat, though. If you set this up will your have to re-do it each time we upgrade? &mdash; {{User:JoeyDay/sig}} 18:43, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
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::::::::::Hey!  I know dot_com from #hrwiki!  mayby thats a wow account!
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:strongfan 00:46, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
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== When to list a WikiTroll ==
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Hey, what's up? I just have a quick question. If users only do two acts of [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=Halloween_Potion-ma-jig&diff=190757&oldid=190756 vandalism] and then [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=203.59.113.139 stay quiet], do we still put em up in the [[HRWiki:WikiTroll|WikiTroll]] page?  My guess is no, cuz it's a one-time thingy majig so I didn't.  But I wanna be sure. Thanks! --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 09:24, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
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:I'm not sure of the answer to this, so I moved your question here. If the answer isn't always ''yes'', then I guess it would depend on the severity of the vandalism and whether you think it will continue. I don't know how much of a complete record that page is supposed to be, if at all. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 16:23, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
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::The WikiTroll page is not supposed to be a complete record, I don't think. The block log does a much better job. That's why you don't have to add someone to WikiTroll if you think they should be blocked. {{User:Homestar Coder/sig}} 16:42, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
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:::Well if you think they should be blocked, then yeah, add them to WikiTroll, and one of the sysops will take care of it. But as far as I know, sysops don't actually have to fill out WikiTroll, they can just block them and let the Block Log fill it's purpose. {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 22:43, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
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== Nothing better to do than to revert pages ==
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It seems like NGS is having fun?  An by that I mean [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=Thorax_Corporation&diff=194462&oldid=193582 this] guy which is the first of a series of reverts from seemingly dissimilar IP addresses.  Thus far only two addresses have had repeated entries, making it almost useless to add them to the WikiTroll page. Only one IP has been used often, but the supply seems endless. Are there any countermeasures to this?  Does this guy actually have control of THAT MANY ip's (seems hard to beleive)? Are they being spoofed? And if so, is there a way to prevent/detect spoofed IP's (at the very least in editing)?  So yeah i think this has been mentioned before... somewhere, but I don't know where that topic of conversation would be. Cheers! --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 04:57, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
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:I'm blocking everything in sight now.  Protecting the page won't do anything, as they'd just move elsewhere.  Everything is going really slow now too.  All this action is slowing everything down.  More than it should, really.  I'm looking into it.[[User:Tom|<nowiki></nowiki>]]  --  [[User:Tom|Tom]] 05:11, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
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::Yeah, there's a great deal of slowdown... They're really fast too. Or maybe that's just coz of the slowdown. I hope there's more we can do... The wiki's become a real vandal house in the last few days... Willy on Wheels, the WikiTikiTavi guy, the other spammer on [[Talk:Main Page]], and now this guy. Sheesh. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
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:::Yeah slowdown seemed to me like it might've been some sort of DOS attack, but who knows. Glad to see the page is back in action! --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 05:43, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
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::::Okay, after blocking 43 IPs and consulting with some folks in #mediawiki, I decided to disable anon edits for a while.[[User:Tom|<nowiki></nowiki>]]  --  [[User:Tom|Tom]] 06:10, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
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:::::Roger. This is really getting ridiculous, but there doesn't seem to be much we can do that we aren't already, especially with these guys coming at us so fast. [[User:Heimstern Läufer|Heimstern Läufer]] 06:16, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
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::::::Okay, anon edits are back.  Let's hope I don't have to do that again.[[User:Tom|<nowiki></nowiki>]]  --  [[User:Tom|Tom]] 07:27, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
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Okay, so I just noticed that [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Today%27s_featured_article/November_10%2C_2005|Thursday's Wikipedia featured article]] was [[Wikipedia:Dogpatch USA|Dogpatch USA]].  Guess whose vandal script created that page ([[Dogpatch USA]]) on our Wiki earlier today?[[User:Tom|<nowiki></nowiki>]]  --  [[User:Tom|Tom]] 03:36, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
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:::::::Stupid question... why didn't we just slap a <nowiki>{{vprotected}}</nowiki> on the page for a bit instead of blocking all anon edits? &mdash; {{User:Lapper/sig}} 04:22, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
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::::::::I thought that too, but Tom pointed out that the spammer would just move to some other page and do the same thing over again. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
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Good to see the site back up. I was starting to have withdrawal symptoms ;).  Anybody know why we were out for so long? --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 04:29, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
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:That is mentioned [[Talk:Main Page#What Happened?|here]]. &mdash; {{User:Lapper/sig}} 04:31, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
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::Ah! Thank you! --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 04:33, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
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== Log in to edit ==
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How come you must log in to edit now? {{User:Pertmywert/sig}} 08:46, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
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:That is a temporary countermeasure to the problem that led to the denial of service yesterday. All will be returned to normal soon. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 08:59, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
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::Okay. I just thought it was wierd. {{User:Pertmywert/sig}} 09:02, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
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:::I personally think you should always have to log in to edit. It's safer, and it's not like it's hard to log in or register. [[User:Ju Ju Master|Ju Ju Master]] 17:04, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
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::::I know, but it's "not the Wiki way", apparently. - {{User:Kookykman/sig}}
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:::::Apparently, the Meta wiki argues that Wikipedia isn't the ''Wiki way'' either. We could go on about this, but the fact is that since annonymous edits have been banned, trolling levels have dropped to virtually nothing. &mdash; {{User:Lapper/sig}} 22:42, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
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::::::You put up with the bad to get the good. I started my wiki life as an anonymous contributor, and remained so for several months. I'm not sure whether I would have jumped right in if I had had to register. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 22:55, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
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:::::::Ditto. I loved my IP number to pieces. In fact, I wrote the bulk of the original [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=Horrible_Painting&oldid=109819 Horrible Painting] article with my IP. I delighted in my original <s>anominity</s> <s>annonymousness</s> lack of a name and, in fact, steeled myself to not make a username 'til invited to do so. Which I was. And the rest is history. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
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::::::::This is truly not the wiki way.  By that I mean our wiki way.  No matter how bad a troll gets, we don't just let an entire group of people be banned from editing.  Like It's dot com, I also began as an annony.  Sure, tons of my edits were reverted, but I ''loved'' the ability to edit a page freely.  I know that trolling is annonying and, in some cases, destructive, but we can put up with it.  Besides, trolls will just simply log in and troll.  {{User:Rogue Leader/sig}} 23:45, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
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:::::::::True true, but I don't think we really should spend to much time on this issue. As dot com said, we'll probably remove that ban in a few days. At least, I hope. Oh yeah, and excuse my non-sysop-ness. {{User:Bubsty/sig}} 23:53, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
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::::::::::Hey, bubsty, you don't need to be a sysop to talk here and later apologize.  I post messages here all of the time and I am not a sysop. {{User:Rogue Leader/sig}} 23:56, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
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:::::::::I would prefer the limitation to be removed as soon as possible. (Right now maybe?) Do you really think those trolls are stalking here waiting for the ban to be lifted? Personally I think now that the threat's over, we should either lift the ban now or never. - {{User:Joshua/sig}} 23:59, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
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::::::::::Well, for those wondering what's taking so long to restore anonymous editing, we are making sure to block as many [[Template:BlockedProxy|proxies]] as we can to hopefully avoid this problem in the future, and that takes a while to get all the [[Ducks|ducks]] in a row. But, rest assured, we've got our top men working on it [[The System is Down|'round the clock]]. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 00:01, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
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::::::::::They've fixed it now.  :strongfan 23:46, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
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:::::::::: false alarm! :strongfan 00:34, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
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== Suggestions ==
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Hi guys. First of all, you guys have been doing a superb job of fighting these vandals. It is sad that you have had to take such drastic measures.  As a result I was thinking of suggesting some partial standing measures myself that would help prevent the vandalism yet allow legitimate new users to join our community.  Forgive me if I'm just repeated things you've thought about yourself.  Anyway here goes:
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#Limit the number of new users per day. (To a reasonable number like 10-15).  We don't get many new users, and this would prevent phantom accounts from being created. ''' ''New addition'' ''': we can also implement the "edit number thingy" (those pictures with numbers and letters that are skewed so that only real people can read them) in order to prevent bots from auto-registering.
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#Limit the number of edits/day for a given ''new'' user (to say 15-30 or so, or stagger the limit 5 the first day, 10 the second, etc) that way we can get acclimated to the user's behavior and determine if it's suspicious.  They cannot have their restrictions lifted until they have a reasonable number of decent, main page edits (i.e. they cannot just sit there and do nothing until their edit moratorium on per day edits ends).
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#<s>(optional)Give a xx hour (12?) moratorium on new accounts before they can edit (except for their own page).</s>
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#(brought from a discussion above)Implement the 25-edit min before moving pages.
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I know this is not the "wiki way" but neither are vandalism and being forced to shut everything down.  These can be relaxed as time goes on and the threat subsides.  This would involve a lot of coding (??) but the code can be kept and reactivated if necessary.  That is if there isn't code for that already. I have not mentioned anonymous edits -- for this to be effective, their restrictions would have to be even stricter than the new user restrictions on the first day. --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 17:21, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
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:I like 1, 2, and 4, but 3 doesn't seem all that great. You can delay them, but once they ''can'' edit, they'll do the exact same things trolls would've done even if you hadn't delayed them. (Did that make sense at all?) {{User:Bubsty/sig}} 17:30, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
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::Yes, it makes perfect sense. I made it optional cuz i wasn't sure of its effectiveness.  Note I have made an addendum too.--[[User:Stux|Stux]] 17:43, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
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:::''Not good, F--''. Kidding. I don't like the idea. it would be much simpler to have you put in and email when registering AND click a confirmation link in the email sent to you. {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 17:46, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
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::::True, but even that can be easily automated. We could limit each email to one user account which would force an attacker to control dozens of emails. A sufficiently adept attacker may be able to do this. We would also limit the few (presumably young) users that do not have email accounts. I figure there should also be ''free'' PHP packages that would implement the funny text thingy too. --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 17:55, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
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:::::That's what I meant. One email per username. {{User:E.L. Cool/sig}} 18:06, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
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::::::Until we know for certain that the bot is gone, we will have to stop annony edits.  Implementing the number idea is probably the best idea.  Email confirmation is my worst enemy.  My email blocker blocks anything that isn't from AOL, so I had to get someone to activate my account on the forum.  No offense, hate the others.  It seriously doesn't feel right at all. {{User:Rogue Leader/sig}} 18:09, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
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:::::::Unfortunately, without options 2 and 4, we're back to square one. (A person can register on behalf of a bot... a slightly more manageable problem but still unpleasant). --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 18:25, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
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:::::::::Yes, but it would take a long time for him to create as many users as a bot can.  I suppose that in one day, that they can start with a set number, but 15-20 is to little.  Try about 50.  Perhaps they first need to edit their userpage first, than wait five or so minutes. {{User:Rogue Leader/sig}} 18:30, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
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::::::::::''Edit conflict'' Not really... think about how quickly some of us can revert pages and and do other miscellaneous tasks. In just a matter of minutes we can deal with 10-20 pages. Now picture an attacker, determined enough to mess with our site (we saw him adapt his script to create user names), that would only need to look at a picture presented by the bot, and type in the correct number.  He could potentially register dozens of users at once. Each bot in turn can modify dozens of pages if not more before being caught and banned. And yes, perhaps 15-20 might be too little,  but 50 might be too much. The numbers I gave are rather arbitrary and were just guesses I came up with at the time. --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 18:41, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
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::::::::::Setting up stopgaps in the registering system is a secondary concern. What is most important is the blocking of open proxies so we can open up our anonymous editing. I can tell you there are hundreds, perhaps thousands, of proxies we still have not blocked. Any possible way to get this bot to stop, either by proxy blocking or diplomacy, is what we are putting our efforts behind at this point. &mdash;[[User:BazookaJoe|BazookaJoe]] 18:35, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
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:::::::::::How do you find the open proxies? Is there some sort of compendium available online?  Is there any way we can help form the list?  Although I hope diplomacy works, it is my personal opinion that the chances of success are minimal. --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 18:44, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
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::::::::::::This is a bit off topic, but oh well. Now, I don't know anything about bots, but could we have one that reverts bad words or cleared pages?  Like, have keywords of the curse words and stuff and make it revert to the last version.  I don't now, maybe users can only do that.--{{User:bkmlb/sig}} 18:43, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
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Stux: Feel free to [[MetaWikipedia:Write your own MediaWiki extension|write your own MediaWiki extension]] to do your above suggestions.[[User:Tom|<nowiki></nowiki>]]  --  [[User:Tom|Tom]] 20:23, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
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:Thanks for the link Tom! I'll see what I can do and I will keep you updated. --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 23:04, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
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::Bot thrive on speed and volume.  How about a speed bump?  If the new user count rises too quickly, or the wiki experiences edits that are too many to be human, the annonymous contributions and new registration would auto-shut down until the sysops asses the threat.  We all know the aproximate volume of edits that happens on a monday when a toon releases, its usually no more than about 15 active users and about 5 - 10 edits a minute.  If all of the suddent the wiki gets 30 edits in a minute it would auto shutdown...almost like a fuse. {{User:Invisible_Robot_Fish/sig}} 13:15, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
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:::Nice Idea, but it would become a fuse anyone could activate at any time if they knew about it. They could be constantly "plugging the system up" just for that purpose. --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 14:23, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
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::::Hello HRWikipedians. I'm an admin over at the [[Wikipedia:Main Page|big Wiki]], and wanted to let you guys know what have done to stop Willy et al. The restrictions on page moves were in effect, buy the throttle only prevented the newest 1% of accounts from moving pages. Willy was found registering "Sleeper accounts", which then gamed the system so he would be able to make page moves. So, the throttle didn't work. Then, a new log was made to list all new users ([[Wikipedia:Special:Log/Newusers]]) which listed all the new user accounts created. With this new log, an admin could block any inappropiate username, sockpuppet, or vandal account quickly. Finally, [[Wikipedia:User:Curps]] wrote a bot which automatically blocked accounts. I'm not sure how this all works, but it has helped a lot in quelling Willy. Good luck to all you here! H*R is pretty cool, and this wiki is fantastic. Regards, [[Wikipedia:User:Bratsche|Bratsche]] ::[[User talk:Bratsche|talk]] 00:52, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
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== Missing/Inactive ==
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I was thinking of creating a [[:Category:Notice Templates|notice template]] for [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Missing Wikipedians|missing and/or inactive users]]. It might be useful in several ways, such as to post at the top of talk pages or user pages. It could also have its own Missing Users category.
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<pre>{| style="border: 1px solid #C0C090; background-color: #F8EABA; margin-bottom: 3px; width: 85%;
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border-spacing: 3px; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto"
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|-
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|[[Image:Exclamation Mark.png|48px|Notice]]
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| This user, '''{{PAGENAME}}''',  has been missing or inactive since ''{{{1}}}''
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due to not having [[Special:Contributions/{{PAGENAME}}|made an edit]]
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for a minimum of six months. [[{{NAMESPACE}} talk:{{PAGENAME}}|Contacting]]
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of '''{{PAGENAME}}''' through HRWiki is discouraged due to possible lack of response.
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|}</pre>
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{| style="border: 1px solid #C0C090; background-color: #F8EABA; margin-bottom: 3px; width: 85%;border-spacing: 3px; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto"
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|-
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|[[Image:Exclamation Mark.png|48px|Notice]]
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| This user, '''{{PAGENAME}}''',  has been missing or inactive since ''{{{1}}}'' due to not having [[Special:Contributions/{{PAGENAME}}|made an edit]] for a minimum of six months. [[{{NAMESPACE}} talk:{{PAGENAME}}|Contacting]] of '''{{PAGENAME}}''' through HRWiki is discouraged due to possible lack of response.
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|}
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What do you guys think? &mdash; {{User:Lapper/sig}} 04:09, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
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The [[HRWiki:Main page redesign|main page redesign]] is planned to get rid of the "h*r.com" abbreviation in favor of a more general "updates" link, and I think the pages themselves should follow suit. Right now, [[H*R.com updates 2020]] is full of updates... and yet, not a single one is a H*R.com update, as the name implies. I think these pages are due for a rename. Even disregarding the inaccuracy of the title, I've always found these page titles to be kind of ugly. Look at that link. Doesn't it look unprofessional to you? There's the "H*R.com" abbreviation, and the capitalization is all over the place. So not only is it wrong, but it's mildly unpleasant to read, at least in my opinion. I realize that renaming all of these pages would be a daunting task, but I think it would be worth it for all the reasons I mentioned. (Also, the opening sentence for each page, as well as the link on the sidebar, would have to be changed as well.) {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig‎}} 20:41, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
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:I don't see a reason to bother people. If they've left, they've left. Let them leave.  They don't want to be bothered.[[User:Tom|<nowiki></nowiki>]]  --  [[User:Tom|Tom]] 05:34, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
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:The 2020 pages is full of updates... of Strong Bad (and Matt Chapman) making cameo appearances in other people's livestreams, and re-releasing some archival material onto YouTube. The page wasn't updated to reflect that until very recently because there might have been confusion as to whether or not those things counted.
 +
:That aside, how much work would updating the name of the pages entail? First, begin by moving all the actual H*R update pages to their new destination with the new title. There's only about twenty of those, right? Then maybe worry about updating "what links here" links on other pages? Can the Wiki call on The Cheatbot to get that done if it was told where to redirect everything? -- [[Special:Contributions/68.37.43.131|68.37.43.131]] 21:58, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
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::Regardless of the substantiality of the updates, they're still Homestar Runner content. I think they count, hence why I'm making this suggestion. As for "daunting", I was mainly referring to changing links and redirects for twenty pages (and the act of renaming them, to a lesser extent). The Cheatbot would definitely help, but even without it, it should be pretty manageable. I'm mainly asking because of the importance of these pages. {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig‎}} 21:47, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
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:::I agree with this. "Homestar Runner updates" (or "Homestar Runner Updates", if we're committed to the Title Case thing) is a better name. The inaccuracy of the current title doesn't apply only to recent years; many older update pages also contain references to updates outside of homestarrunner dot com. {{User:Lira/sig}} 09:03, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
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::I agree with Tom. Besides, inactive users probably wouldn't be contacted about anything important anyways, for lack of presence on the Wiki. {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 05:50, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
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== Redirect Baleetion ==
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:::It seems like kind of an "idiot warning" (what my mom calls the car's announcements that it's running low on fuel, etc.). Anybody who really wants to can examine their contributions. &mdash;[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 06:06, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
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These two requests have already been made on their respective talk pages and through the {{t|delete}} template, but not officially, so I thought I'd make note of them here. The '''[[Pinecones]]''' redirect needs to be deleted so [[Pine Cones]] can be moved there (see talk page), and '''[[It's Like It Was Meant To Be]]''' needs to be deleted so [[It's like it was meant to be]] can be moved there. (And while you're at it, there are [[:Category:Pages for Speedy Deletion|around fifty other unnecessary redirects that can be deleted]], but that's not as important since they aren't obstructing page movement.) {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig‎}} 21:53, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
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:I deleted those two redirects and moved the pages. Note that the redirect for the second one actually had a lowercase "to": [[It's Like It Was Meant to Be]]. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 23:48, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
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::Thanks a lot! And sorry about the miscapitalization! {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig‎}} 01:25, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
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::::The template looks like the user did something wrong, especially with the exclamation mark. If a user leaves, he/she can leave a message on their userspace themselves if they wish. {{User:Rainer/sig}} 06:43, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
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== Embedded Twitter Timeline: can it work? ==
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I bow to the decline of this template and therefore decline it myself. How about, instead, we keep a list of missing users? I again link to Wikipedia's list [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Missing Wikipedians|here]]. &mdash; {{User:Lapper/sig}} 22:33, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
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It's been [[HRWiki:Main page redesign/Votes#Recent social media posts|suggested]] that the [[HRWiki:Main page redesign|main page redesign]] should include an embedded timeline of [[@StrongBadActual]] Tweets like the one on the [[hr:|index page]] or [https://hrfwiki2.miraheze.org/wiki/Main_Page fanstuff wiki] (as opposed to the {{t|recentposts}} template, which is largely devoid of context and must be manually updated). On some wikis this is possible through a widget or a [[mw:Extension:TwitterTag|MediaWiki extension]]. Would it be possible to implement this feature? {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig‎}} 00:34, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
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:I agree. {{User:Bubsty/sig}} 02:05, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
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:Pretty much everything regarding the new main page has [[HRWiki:Main page redesign/Votes|already been decided]] (the votes are all unanimous for now), so this is the last thing that still needs to be done. Unfortunately I can't fiddle with widgets or extensions, so if someone could let us know if it would be possible to embed a Twitter timeline on a wiki page, that would be greatly appreciated. {{User:Gfdgsgxgzgdrc/sig‎}} 21:18, 8 October 2021 (UTC)
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==Namespace/Interwiki list==
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== "General Disclaimer" legal link is broken ==
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I've made a [[User:Phlip/Namespaces|page]], which is intended to be moved to [[Help:Namespaces]] when it's done (with [[Help:Interwiki]] as a redirect perhaps). Mostly so it can be linked to from [[HRWiki:Glossary#N]] and maybe also [[Help:Link]]. But before I call it "ready" I just want to know:
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#Are there any objections to this page?
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#Have I missed any interwiki links? I got all of the namespaces, according to [[Special:Allpages]] but there doesn't seem to be a list of the interwiki links anywhere (which is half the reason for the page).
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Of course, as always, if you see anything, change it. Your thoughts? {{User:Phlip/sig}} 06:17, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
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:Looks good to me, Phlip, and if something was missed, you know someone will spot it and fix it. :) &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 06:20, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
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:Personally, I love it! I was looking for the Fanstuff interwiki link the other day and couldn't find it. I ended up putting the full URL. (In fact... why don't I change them back now!) --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 06:23, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
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::OK, it's been moved. {{User:Phlip/sig}} 06:26, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
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:::I think the Interwiki part could be split into a separate [[Help:Interwiki]] article.  While the method of linking looks the same, it's really quite different and at least in my mind, deserving of its own page.[[User:Tom|<nowiki></nowiki>]] -- [[User:Tom|Tom]] 06:47, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
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[[HRWiki:General disclaimer]] refers to "the '''legal stuff''' page on the official Homestar Runner website"; however, that links to https://homestarrunner.com/legal.html which is currently a 404. The [[oldhr:legal.html|old site version]] does not render properly, either. The best solution is probably https://old.homestarrunner.com/legal.txt instead; in any event this should probably be addressed as the disclaimer boilerplate appears constantly throughout the wiki. --{{User:Bleu Ninja/sig}} 17:44, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
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::::Should it be Namespaces, or the singular Namespace? "Help:Namespace". &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 06:49, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
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:Fixed to the link to the text file. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 20:35, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
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:::::I think namespaces, since it's a listing of the different kinds.  However having [[Help:Namespace]] redirect to it would be of no harm. --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 07:06, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
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== Episode V. The DoS strikes back? ==
+
== Fixes needed for "Book sources" ==
-
Am I the only one encountering serious slowdowns? Are we being attacked by a DoS again? --[[User:Stux|Stux]] 01:51, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
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:[[Talk:Main_Page#Slowdown|Ooooops!]] I just saw the discussion in the main page, nevermind.--[[User:Stux|Stux]] 01:52, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
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==Recent Vandal Attack==
+
[[Special:BookSources]] has issues with three of its ISBN-search functions:
 +
*AddALL currently links to "<nowiki>http://www.addall.com/New/Partner.cgi?query=</nowiki>'''number'''&type=ISBN", the site structure has been adjusted so such links redirect to the main page. It should link to "<nowiki>https://www.addall.com/New/isbn-lookup.cgi?isbn=</nowiki>'''number'''"
 +
*PriceSCAN has not had a search or price-comparison function [https://web.archive.org/web/20110430193720/http://pricescan.com/ since April of 2011], making its inclusion here obsolete.
 +
*Barnes & Noble currently links to "<nowiki>http://search.barnesandnoble.com/bookSearch/isbnInquiry.asp?isbn=</nowiki>'''number'''", the site structure has been adjusted so such links redirect to the main page. It should link to "<nowiki>https://www.barnesandnoble.com/s/</nowiki>'''number'''"
 +
*Amazon.com still functions as expected.
-
Just to let you know, the recent vandel attack was done by zombies, which are computers infected with a trojan. A proxy block list won't block these bots. Anyways, I'm begun to pick apart mediawiki and see if I can make a bot-prevention script for you guys/the other wikis out there. Think of something a bot can't read. [Big ol' Hint: a image] [PS, move this if this is in the wrong place] - [[User:Mick|Mick]]
+
I don't think this is particularly high priority as this functionality isn't used much, but wanted to raise the issue. --{{User:Bleu Ninja/sig}} 00:16, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
-
:These IPs in general show too many similarities to be random machines, in my opinion. Also, I believe some ''one person'' is driving these attacks, because they start and stop, and because whoever it is adapts to our countermeasures in specific ways. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 17:33, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
+

Current revision as of 14:23, 5 July 2024

This is the administrative message board. For the basement featured in Homestar Runner toons, see Basement of the Brothers Strong.
Where all the cool guys hang out
Shortcut:
HRW:DB

Welcome to Da Basement! This is a messageboard for coordinating and discussing administrative tasks on the Homestar Runner Wiki. Although it is aimed mostly at sysops, any user is welcome to leave a message or join the discussion here.

If you have a question regarding how to become a sysop, please read through the FAQ beforehand.

Current | Archive 1 (1-10) | Archive 2 (11-20)
Archive 3 (21-30) | Archive 4 (31-40) | Archive 5 (41-50)
Archive 6 (51-60) | Archive 7 (Logo discussion) | Archive 8 (61-82)
Archive 9 (83-102) | Archive 10 (103-117)
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HRWiki:Projects (Talk) (v)
Unfinished and Ongoing

DVD commentary transcripts
Image summary cleanup
Toon Descriptions
Possible Page Disambiguations
Inside Jokes vs Running Gags
Yello Dello/KOT Conventions
Main page redesign
@StrongBadActual Bot
Interwiki-style updates
Edit link issue
Podstar Runner pages
SBEmail Infoboxes
SBEmail Production History
SBCG4AP Cleanup

Completed or overruled

Navigation templates
Introducing a new Interwiki link
Underscores
Nav Template Automation

HRWiki:The Stick (Talk)
HRWiki:Da Basement (Talk)

Contents


[edit] Licensing drop-down list

Could a sysop or admin kindly populate MediaWiki:Licenses with the image copyright tags that have been created over the past few years? It would aid in choosing the right license when uploading. Please and thanks, Soiled Bargains (talk|ctrb) 22:07, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

[edit] MediaWiki system messages

I had a few concerns for the sysops regarding some of the MediaWiki system messages. Please delete/modify or just comment on the following:

Message
  • Default
  • Current
Concern Decision / remark
MediaWiki:Anononlyblock
  • anon. only
  • anonnies only
"anonnies"? "Hey, anonny, why don't you go... brush up on your knowledge of the Homestar Runner body of work or something and not attribute it to yourself!"
MediaWiki:Autoredircomment
  • Redirected page to $1
  • redirect to $1
present tense? lowercase? also, why not just default? preference
MediaWiki:Autosumm-blank
  • Blanked the page
  • blanked the page
lowercase? why not just default?
MediaWiki:Autosumm-replace
  • Replaced content with '$1'
  • replaced the page with '$1'
lowercase?
MediaWiki:Clearyourcache
  • Note - After saving, you may have to bypass your browser's cache to see the changes. Mozilla / Firefox / Safari: hold Shift while clicking Reload, or press either Ctrl-F5 or Ctrl-R (Command-R on a Macintosh); Konqueror: click Reload or press F5; Opera: clear the cache in Tools → Preferences; Internet Explorer: hold Ctrl while clicking Refresh, or press Ctrl-F5.
  • {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Special:Preferences|'''See [[Help:User Preferences]] for help deciphering the options.''' <nowiki>}}</nowiki> Note: After saving, you may have to bypass your browser's cache to see the changes. *Mozilla / Firefox: hold down Shift while clicking Reload, or press Ctrl-Shift-R (Cmd-Shift-R on Apple Mac) *Safari: press Cmd-Option-E *IE: hold Ctrl while clicking Refresh, or press Ctrl-F5 *Konqueror: simply click the Reload button, or press F5 *Opera users may need to completely clear their cache in Tools→Preferences.
I recommend we delete MediaWiki:Clearyourcache and move "See Help:User Preferences for help deciphering the options." onto MediaWiki:Preferences-summary. The entire preferences page was reworked beginning with the next version. This will need to be reviewed once we upgrade (whenever that is).
MediaWiki:Disambiguationspage
  • Template:disambig
  • HRWiki:Links_to_disambiguating_pages
supposed to designate which template(s) are used to mark disambiguation pages. non-default setting breaks the functionality of Special:Disambiguations. also, HRWiki:Links to disambiguating pages is possibly pointless. This was set in the earliest days of the wiki and should be reviewed and probably removed.
MediaWiki:History-title
  • Revision history of "$1"
  • Revision history of $1
removal of quotes, just different for seemingly no reason - why not just default? preference; likely inspired by the same change at Wikipedia
MediaWiki:Mailmypassword
  • E-mail new password
  • Email new password
"Email" generally should be spelled "E-mail" nevermind, but still why not just keep the default? "Never mind" should be two words.
Never_mind, then ;-) -- I guess I figured out why we have non-default on this, anyway -- probably for consistency with the H*R spelling, which is usually (always?) non-hyphenated. LobStoR 20:29, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
MediaWiki:Movenologintext
  • You must be a registered user and logged in to move a page.
  • You must be a registered user and logged in to move a page, or this page may be protected from page moves.
This message is not even displayed for protected page move attempts. (in that case, it displays MediaWiki:Protectedpagetext, which is defaulted to "This page has been locked to prevent editing.") This change was probably correct back when it was implemented but after various upgrades is now out of date. It should be reviewed and probably removed.
MediaWiki:Right-edit
  • Edit pages
  • Edit this page
Incorrect grammar for the list at Special:ListGroupRights

edit: also feeds MediaWiki:Permissionserrorstext-withaction "You do not have permission to $2, for the following reasons:"

We need to see where else this is used. Obviously it was changed for some reason, but the change could be out of date and may need to be removed. If it's still current, then the amount of sense made on the group rights page (grammar is not a problem per se) is potentially a secondary concern, not a primary one
I think it's $2 in MediaWiki:Permissionserrorstext-withaction -- "You do not have permission to $2, for the following reasons:" LobStoR 20:10, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Please check these out, and leave comments regarding any decisions on any of these. Thanks, LobStoR 18:43, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

I replied to your, ahem, concerns. Thanks, Chaps, for not burdening us with more pressing matters, like toons, so we can take care of stuff like this. — It's dot com 19:28, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, really helps us... err... refine our wiki :-) LobStoR 19:56, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
I set the table row color by status -- green=pending, grey=no action. LobStoR 20:29, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

[edit] Use of id in templates

As work was being done on sightings pages, I noticed that {{sightingslanguagewarning}} makes use of the id attribute for its box. Its value, which references another template that has the same thing, is "inprogress". The id attribute is, in part, the replacement for the name attribute, which creates an anchor: a "link" to a specific part of the page.

Two ids can never be the same on a page, as stated in this sentence from section C.8 of the XHTML 1.0 specification:

The values of these attributes must be unique within the document, valid, and any references to these fragment identifiers (both internal and external) must be updated should the values be changed during conversion.

If a value for id is used more than once, it will invalidate the page, as demonstrated in this link (here's the code). Three errors are from multiple occurrences of the same id value. The remaining five demonstrate that there is a format to be followed, and an invalid format throw an error. In this example, headings that start with a number or special character generate invalid id values (see C.8). This is something MediaWiki does and it's practically out of our control. Note that headings with the same name are handled by MediaWiki to an extent.

Looking through MediaWiki:Common.css and MediaWiki:Monobook.css, the only selection by id that's of concern is #navbox. However, those style rules are also applied to the class navbox, and I believe that most if not all navigation templates get their styles from using the class attribute.

Lastly, if this rant seems familiar, I did go on about the use of this attribute on table rows a year and so ago.

In summary, I wish to recommend that users be cautious as to add id attributes to templates, or anything that may be used more than once on a page, and, likewise, using this attribute to apply styles. In addition, I wish to recommend that users who see an id attribute causing a ruckus resolve it in some manner or remove it. —Soiled Bargains (talk|ctrb) 21:09, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

[edit] Dropdown Menu Support

Will the HRWiki be compatible with dropdown menus sometime? Purple Wrench has a great idea for a restyling of the @StrongBadActual page, but a dropdown menu that would allow him to compact all the transcripts would benefit the page greatly. - Catjaz63 03:54, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

To generalize, having any sort of hide/show functionality for a section of text would help. In addition, the page (both as it appears now and if my redesign is used instead) will appear broken unless the issues regarding automatic resizing of gifs are sorted out. I am aware that both of these tasks are not trivial, but they would be necessary for a page that has the potential to grow very quickly and be populated with gifs. -- ■■   PURPLE  WRENCH   ■■ 12:28, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
Sometime? Yes! Soon? Well... no promises, but I do intend to get back into active development for this site, and creating a better user experience for this day and age is tops on my list. — It's dot com 22:58, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
If you just configured the server to resize twitter sillysoolnds.gif correctly, I thank you for doing so. There are a few more gifs I uploaded in August for @StrongBadActual that don't resize yet (this and this). -- ■■   PURPLE  WRENCH   ■■ 12:27, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
Looks like they're both working now too. Thanks! -- ■■   PURPLE  WRENCH   ■■ 19:39, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

[edit] Personal info of real persons

I did a little digging and couldn't find anything on this subject (if anyone knows where we've talked about it before, please link to it here). Lately there's been an uptick of personal information on articles about real people that seems a little... over the line. I can't say for sure because to my knowledge we've never actually defined a line (other than limiting certain information about minors). So what should the line be? Obviously anything mentioned directly on the official site is fair game, but thus far we haven't limited ourselves to that. We include information from interviews and the like. That said, just because a scrap of data can be found on an obscure website somewhere doesn't automatically mean it should be here. This is a bit unfocused, so I think I'll stop talking and open the floor for others' thoughts and concerns. — It's dot com 17:03, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

There's all sorts of information about practically everyone in the world which really ought to be private information, which most people would probably prefer if it would remain private information, but which, because of the age we live is, is now easily accessible to anyone on the internet. I think that the natural cutoff point here is probably that anything which has been deliberately publicized in relation to The Family Chaps's creative endeavors is fine, but that out of respect to their privacy, information from any other source which is not directly linked to their public lives as writers/producers should be off-limits. Practically, that would mean that we should avoid making use of things like phonebook databases, people search services, background check engines, etc. On the other hand, any information from the toons, DVD commentaries, interviews, press releases, Strong Bad's social network accounts, TBC's other projects, and even databases like IMDB which are specifically geared toward the video entertainment industry ought to be fair game. I think it's only common decency to say that we don't publish any information that TBC themselves haven't already indicated is intended to be in the public eye. — Defender1031*Talk 17:43, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
Please excuse my brevity, but I wholly agree with Defender's definition of "the line". Just because information can be found doesn't mean it should all be published. In addition to that, I believe that a new Policy page be created to specifically explain what the line is and why we've drawn it. --Stux 13:31, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
I agree with DeFender and Stux. Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 18:16, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

[edit] AFJAOBN

I think that HRWiki:April Fools' Jokes and Other Baleeted Nonsense has run its course. The wiki hasn't done a proper gag in years, and every single "prank" done by users is lame. No offense, but changing your sig and your user page has been done. I get the strong feeling some people come back once a year just so that they can do something that gets posted on that page. I'd really like to lock it, and unless somebody can make an extremely good case for why it needs to stay open, I plan do to so. — It's dot com 02:16, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

Well, I think some people enjoy it and it isn't harming anyone or anything soooo... I feel like that's a pretty good reason? TheThingé 02:18, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
For about five years running you did exactly what I was talking about. The harm is that it's disruption not to be clever or funny but for its own sake. — It's dot com 02:32, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
Much as it pains me to do so, I have to agree with Dot com. It was total loads of fun back in the wiki's heyday when we had a lot of active users who would do April Fools' stuff, and then would continue to interact with each other in ways relating to their joke. Now that the wiki is pretty much dead save for a handful of people, that isn't really how it happens anymore. We're basically left with a few edited userpages that no one would even be looking at were it not for the edits being made to them, along with some other disruptive behaviors such as adding nonsense that no one cares about to talk pages that no one has looked at in years. At this point, it's all just become stale. Sadly, there's not enough of a userbase for it not to be stale. We had a good run, but until and unless TBC start updating weekly again and we get a huge influx of users which causes the wiki to return to its former glory, we need to put Apro Foo Day out to pasture. — Defender1031*Talk 11:33, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
I'm here in support of DC's and DeFender's position. These days some users just simply want to one-up the previous year's or another user's randomness. I'm fine with just keeping this page locked for historical purposes. --Stux 12:31, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
Oppose. This particular April Fools' Day has had more participants than any of the previous four years - without coinciding with a H*R update, no less. RickTommy (edits) 13:02, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
To be clear, I'm not suggesting a wholesale ban on users changing their sigs or whatever they've been doing; I just don't think we should keep a record of it anymore. (If we ever do a wiki-wide prank again, that can still be noted.) — It's dot com 14:26, 3 April 2017 (UTC) 
The April Fools’ Day page has brought so many people joy.
And by “so many”, I mean those few it did not annoy.
And if it’s locked forever, never to be changed again,
Then April’s reemergence of those old users will end.
No more rare appearances of people lost to time,
Like wind caressing crystals in forgotten caves and mines.
The truth is if the page gets its abilities revoked,
That marks the end of The_thing’s twelve year streak of stupid jokes.
And yes I know that certain men would love to see me sad,
I purposely have vexed you for a decade, is that bad?
So, if you must, protect the page and ruin all those dreams
Left gazing into voids of empty memories unseen.
TheThingé 17:38, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
Did you even read my comment above? We have no current plans to stop people from doing the stupid stuff they do on April 1. The only difference is we're not going to record what they do in a centralized place. If that's a dealbreaker—in other words, if someone is doing something only so they can be listed on that page—then they're doing it for the wrong reasons. That's precisely what locking the page aims to curb. — It's dot com 19:34, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
Personally I liked having all of the stuff in one place, so a user could look through all of them at once on any given day of the year. That said, I definitely see both sides of the issue here. If the page is locked... okay, it's still there for posterity. Then I'd just take the list of stuff I did and stick it on a page in my own userspace, and in that case I'd recommend other users do the same. -- ■■   PURPLE  WRENCH   ■■ 23:50, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
You're free to list your own stuff, I guess, but we're not going to move a centralized list to the user space. — It's dot com 23:53, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

[edit] The Deleteheads Download Blockquote

I made a blockquote-type thing for the page The Deleteheads Download, but I can't add it because I can't edit MediaWiki:Common.css. Can a sysop add this? Feel free to make any changes! 

 .DeleteheadsDownload<!--you can change the title to whatever you want--> {
    background: url(/images/c/c8/DeleteheadsDownloadBackground.png) repeat-y;
    padding: .5em 1em 1em;
    width: 600px
 }

Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 00:27, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

Done. I went with just .deleteheads and made some small adjustments to the padding and width. — It's dot com 00:41, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

[edit] Oldest Downloads Menu Mirror

Dear Sysops:
I CoachZiscool1978 request that you create a mirror for the Oldest Downloads Menu. It may take as much time as it needs but, I have overwhelming support... (by overwhelming I mean one Gfdgsgxgzgdrc.) Still! I hope you do it for me, in your eyes, I'm a wiki user, In my family's eyes, I'm a son, or grandson, or even nephew but in my heart I'm a Homestar Runner fan and I'm a historical preserver...
Anxiously awaiting a reply: CoachZiscool1978

I've changed it to a local mirror. -- Tom 01:28, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

[edit] Long-term inactivity

Wikipedia (and if I'm not mistaken, every other Wiki in existence) has recently taken to desysopping admins who have not edited in a long time. Any chance we could do the same thing? RickTommy (edits) 10:05, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

And the reason to do this would be...? --Jay (Gobble) 10:06, 20 September 2018 (UTC)
I slightly agree. After all, what's the point of an administrator who hasn't edited in a decade? By my calculations, about 1/5 admins haven't edited in eight or more years. Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 20:10, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
Here's a full list of admins' most recent edits:
  • 2019 x5
  • 2018 x2
  • 2017
  • 2016 x2
  • 2015
  • 2014 x2
  • 2013 x2
  • 2011 x3
  • 2010
  • 2009 x2
  • 2008 x2
  • 2006 x2
  • 2005
We have five active admins (those who have edited this year), eight inactive admins (those who have edited since 2014), and thirteen admins with practically no chance of ever editing again (those who haven't edited since 2014). That means exactly half of the admins haven't edited since April Fool 2014. Seven of them haven't even edited this decade. And the decade is practically over! Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 19:46, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
Speaking of inactive sysops, there should probably be a few more sysops to replace the old ones. The last time someone was promoted was in 2007, and that user hasn't edited in over eight years. There are a lot of helpful active users nowadays who could do a lot of good with admin priv-a-le-ges... I guess. The wiki might run more smoothly and effectively when there aren't a select few people doing all the important stuff. Things might get done faster this way. Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 02:43, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
What things do you think are not getting done? -174.62.238.201 13:07, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
I think that things like deleting pages, blocking vandals, discussions (like the ones on this very page), getting approval for important decisions (like this one), and so forth — even smaller, less important things, like changing the CSS for holidays or updating the featured content — might be done more quickly with more people involved. Also, the wiki runs on an outdated and unsupported version of MediaWiki from ten years ago, which is a bit dangerous for our security, and more active sysops might help fix that. In short, I think more help would be helpful. Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 22:55, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
Of the things you listed, the only thing that really even applies to sysops is blocking vandals, which is generally a matter of luck as to whether there will be an active sysop when vandalism happens. True more sysops meaans more likelihood of there being one on when a vandal hits, but we don't get all that much vandalism and it's usually taken care of relatively quickly. As for the rest, let me explain why they don't apply to sysops:
  • Deleting pages - Most of the undeleted pages are due to lack of consensus on deletion discussions rather than lack of sysops to perform the deletions.
  • Discussions - Anyone on the wiki can participate in discussions. You don't need to be a sysop to do that. Again, this is more a matter of a lack of general inactivity than it is lack of sysops. Having more sysops is not going to encourage more activity.
  • Getting approval for important decisions (like this one) - Only site admins can approve new sysops. Anything else that needs approval is done by consensus, not by sysop authority. There may be actions that only a sysop can take to make something happen once consensus has been reached, but as with deletion, it's a matter of having enough activity to get consensus.
  • And so forth - And so forth.
  • Changing the CSS for holidays or updating the featured content - I believe that there are elements of both of these that can only be done by a site admin rather than a sysop, and at least the former tends to be done on a pretty reasonable timeframe.
  • The wiki runs on an outdated and unsupported version of MediaWiki - This one is definitely something that can only be done by a site admin. I'm certain they are aware of it and have plans to deal with it.
In short, I doubt there's much need for more sysops, and the issues you raise mostly have more to do with general inactivity anyway. One last thing I'd point out is that the wiki's general sysop nomination policy is "don't call us, we'll call you", that suggestions to add more sysops have historically been met with suspicion and resentment from regular users, and that generally only the site admin team decides whether and when more sysops are necessary. — Defender1031*Talk 23:51, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
Oh, okay. That makes sense. Nevermind then! Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 02:08, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

[edit] Outdated Chat Clients

Moved from HRWiki talk:FAQ

I know for sure that there's still plenty of buzz going around about Homestar and the gang (Especially with the new sbemail released), but my concern is that not a whole lot of people use IRC anymore, I propose that the Admins make an Official Homestar Runner Wiki Discord Server. This way we can do get together and make editing and sharing thoughts a lot easier (If this already exists, Great! Let's try to make it more known) — DonPianta (Talk | contribs) 19:43, 17 August 2017 (left unsigned)

I agree. IRC Channels are horribly outdated and this would be a great improvement for Wiki discussion. - Catjaz63 22:31, 3 September 2017 (UTC)
I agree as well. Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 02:18, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
Now that the topic has been brought up again by an anonny, I still think this is a good idea. I've been on the IRC channel a few times, and it is very inactive. Plus, you can only see messages posted when you are online, whereas with Discord, you can view all messages, making discussions more convenient. This way, you don't have to be online 24/7, and if you exit, you can go back and read messages you've missed. Discord is less outdated and more useful in nearly every way. Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 18:51, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
Also, this is an especially good idea considering how inactive the forum has been. Discord is a good alternative way to discuss toons and updates, and is practically guaranteed to be more active than the forum, considering how many people use Discord. Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 23:37, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
Guess what else is inactive? The Wiki. And as I've said numerous times, there's no point in making a significant change to a Wiki that has lost most of its userbase. RickTommy (edits) 02:16, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
You use that as your excuse for everything. Yes, the wiki is less active than it used to be. So what? Why should that keep us from making changes to improve it, and maybe even make it more active? And who's to say this wiki won't become more active over the years? We may not have that many users right now, but the users we do have would surely appreciate a more convenient way to communicate. Inactivity shouldn't stop us from making a better wiki. Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 06:25, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
How is making a discord channel a “significant change to the wiki” even? -174.62.238.201 15:49, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
Um, what is this... "Discord" you speak of? Is a... food? Shoehorned referencing aside, I know I'm only an anonymous contributor that only shows up for small things. I have to admit I haven't logged on to a forum for ten years (ugly memories) and have no social media accounts (I believe they are places of evil that consume their user's brains). So I'm a a lot behind the times and I prefer it that way. So I guess having a dedicated chatroom doesn't really apply to me that much. Guess I'll probably go back to expressing myself in edit summaries and hope I'm understood. 68.37.43.131 13:16, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
Right now, we have three users in favor, and one opposed. Anyone else? I see many reasons to do it, and no reasons not to. I think it'll make everything more convenient, and the wiki more active. Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 19:46, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

In order to revive this proposal, here is a list of advantages Discord has over IRC.

  • On IRC, you can only see messages sent during your session, which means if you want to see all messages, you have to be online 24/7. On Discord, you can see every message at any time, so you don't always have to be online. It's less of a commitment.
  • It's far more convenient. You can have multiple channels per server, so we can dedicate one to announcements, another for serious discussions, one for welcoming new users and explaining the rules, one for discussing site updates, and so forth.
  • No one uses IRC. I don't just mean it's outdated (even though yes, it's definitely outdated, and usage has been declining steadily since 2003), but no one on the wiki is ever online. Discord, on the other hand, is used by many. I usually keep it open in a tab in the background, so if I want to drop in, I'd just have to click the HRWiki server icon. The Fanstuff Wiki 2 server is quite active, and used by a few HRWiki users, and it's not even official.
  • In order to research these examples, I tried going on IRC, but it wouldn't let me answer the security question (it just showed a blank white screen), so I couldn't enter. That's a sign that we severely need a new method of chat.
  • Wikimedia has its own Discord server. Why shouldn't we do the same?

Just think of the possibilities. With an active chat, discussions can be resolved faster, proposals can be implemented quicker, ongoing discussions can be grouped together in one central area, more users would be encouraged to participate, and the live nature of it makes it easier to communicate. We would usher in a new era of the wiki, free of stagnant proposals like this one. That's a bit of an exaggeration, but still, I can see no reason not to do this. So far, the only reason against it has been "it's not worth it", but setting up a server would take all of one minute. I would go ahead and make a dedicated HRWiki server myself, but then it wouldn't be deemed official. So, do the admins have an opinion on this? Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 00:03, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

I'll throw my vote in for Discord. Guybrush20X6 00:30, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
I've also occasionally suggested setting up a Discord server to my fellow sysops, so I'm highly in favour of an official wiki one. For those who do still use IRC, I know bridge bots exist to link the IRC and Discord chat together (I'm in a server that uses one, so I have direct help if we want/need to set one up). I'm also told it would also be remarkably easy to set up a Discord bot that imitates the functions of our RCBot that keeps track of the recent changes. I'll be honest, that's actually what I use the IRC for most often, and largely the reason I'm still active on the wiki. I'd love to move to Discord and even be able to keep track of the wiki on my phone. Let's bring wiki chats into the 21st century~ --DorianGray 01:51, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
As one of the few Luddite holdouts on IRC, I'd like to see the technology not be fully abandoned in favor of shiny walled gardens with fancy bells and whistles. If an official Discord channel is created I would definitely like to see a bridge bot implemented so those of us "on the fringe" can still stay in touch. I'd hate to see something like Mozilla where they completely abandoned IRC and moved everything to Matrix. Matrix is probably one of the more open options out there, but to me this always means having to install and try out new software just to try and get connected. I'd rather not have to try new software for every project out there. And several of the concerns above aren't necessarily valid (IRC does let you have multiple channels, bouncers help with the 24/7 problem, and the hrwiki IRC client doesn't work because it ran on Java, which was killed faster than Flash was.) Most of the issues with using IRC are technical, which gives most people a hard time and dissuade them from trying out the technology, so I can understand the decline in interest. So, again, I would prefer to have options where everyone can use their favourite technology and still remain in touch. (There was also a comment above I'd like to echo: current IRC usage reflects current wiki usage. Discord usage might face similar trends.) Okay, enough ranting. Have a good night everyone! --Stux 03:35, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
Just a point of order, even if we did set up a Discord server, all wiki content and policy discussions would still have to take place—or at least be duplicated—on wiki talk pages, so I don't know that anything would necessarily be resolved any faster. — It's dot com 02:50, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
Exactly, I'm not saying we should abandon IRC entirely, but it shouldn't be our sole method of real-time, off-wiki communication. The best option is to be able to have, well, options. As for "Discord usage may reflect wiki usage", that is a likely possibility, but not an inevitability. As I've said, I already keep Discord open in a tab on my computer, and I'm sure many others do the same, so making a comment there will probably be easier than doing the same on the wiki. The Homestar Fanstuff Wiki 2 Discord, for instance, is more active than the wiki it's based on, because Discord is just that popular. I am aware that these discussions would have to be duplicated on the wiki, but that's better than stagnant discussions that go nowhere. Sure, a Discord server probably won't change much, but on the other hand, maybe it will, so why not?
Also, I apologize for speaking so harshly against IRC earlier. I wasn't aware that my concerns were invalid, and should have done more research before discussing the features IRC was seemingly lacking. But still, even if these features are present on IRC, they are more streamlined on Discord. Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 21:20, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
I'd love to see an official HRWiki Discord server happen as well :) I'd join it in a heartbeat. It would be a great way to help energize the H*R community and provide another place to get people talking about H*R again. — Kilroy / talk 19:10, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
Anyone up to taking up the glove and setting up a discord channel? I'm all for it. — Elcool (talk)(contribs) 09:52, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
Tom created HRWiki:Discord server. Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 22:07, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

[edit] Main Page Redesign Notice

In just over a week, it will be the two year anniversary of the suggestion to redesign the Main Page. The discussion hasn't been very active, and hardly anyone is contributing, despite the fact that this could be one of the largest, most important wiki edits in years. I suggest putting a header over the Main Page, recent changes, or even the entire wiki. After all, we did it when we were redesigning the logo. Something like this, perhaps:

The Homestar Runner Wiki is considering redesigning the Main Page.
Your votes would be greatly appreciated.

Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 20:29, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

The main page is still outdated, and not much is being done about it. I think this notice would be a good way to inform users of the update, and get more peoples' opinions. Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 05:30, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
One somewhat related thing I'd like to point out: the new page design includes twitter updates, however tweets have not been regularly updated since around october. I think that activating the new design (in whatever form it may have) requires a concerted effort to regularly update these tweets. (And I, personally, do not have the time to help out with said task.) --Stux 13:37, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
It doesn't need to be updated regularly just yet, but when it replaces the main page, I'll make sure it stays updated. Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 20:05, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
Anyone else have an opinion on this? This is a good way to get more users into the discussion and finally get a consensus on possibly the most important wiki decision of recent times. Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 19:46, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
It has been over three years since the update was suggested, and I think it's at least as important as changing the logo, which had a notice above the recent changes. There is so much empty space and outdated information on the current main page, and the new one is much more informative and aesthetically pleasing in my opinion, and yet nothing is being done about it. Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 21:35, 1 January 2020 (UTC)
Adding this notice is another obvious decision that I would make myself if I had the rights. The Main Page is undergoing a major necessary change, but nothing's changing without involvement. And what better way to get involvement than from a technique we've used before? It seemed to work fine when we did it for the new logo. Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 00:03, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
I generally try not to "bump" discussions with nothing more to add than "This still hasn't happened", but... yeah, this still hasn't happened. And not only that, but no one has commented on the suggestion. I find the new main page so much better in so many ways, and each day it pains me to know that it is merely rotting away in the HRWiki namespace, for I know not when its beauty may be unleashed unto the world for all wiki-goers to gaze upon in awe and profound admiration for years to come. So, bump. Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 21:20, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
Count in my vote for a redesign notice. It seems like one of the best ways to get this www dot main page redesign on the road dot com, and that seems like a thing that should happen. Lira (talk) 09:03, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
Most users probably aren't even aware of the redesign, as it only shows up on recent changes occasionally. This would be a way to raise awareness of the project, since we need much more involvement if we want to have consensus. Now that there's a voting page for users to easily give their input, now's a better time than ever. Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 22:59, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
I agree with a main page header, I only noticed it because I crawl around Recent Changes and other talk/project pages. The most-voted-on one only has five votes and there are more active users than that. -- Bleu Ninja 17:34, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

[edit] @StrongBadActual Bot

See HRWiki:Projects/@StrongBadActual Bot

[edit] Interwiki-style updates and maintenance

See HRWiki:Projects/Interwiki-style updates and maintenance

[edit] Homestar Runner Updates 20X6

The main page redesign is planned to get rid of the "h*r.com" abbreviation in favor of a more general "updates" link, and I think the pages themselves should follow suit. Right now, H*R.com updates 2020 is full of updates... and yet, not a single one is a H*R.com update, as the name implies. I think these pages are due for a rename. Even disregarding the inaccuracy of the title, I've always found these page titles to be kind of ugly. Look at that link. Doesn't it look unprofessional to you? There's the "H*R.com" abbreviation, and the capitalization is all over the place. So not only is it wrong, but it's mildly unpleasant to read, at least in my opinion. I realize that renaming all of these pages would be a daunting task, but I think it would be worth it for all the reasons I mentioned. (Also, the opening sentence for each page, as well as the link on the sidebar, would have to be changed as well.) Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 20:41, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

The 2020 pages is full of updates... of Strong Bad (and Matt Chapman) making cameo appearances in other people's livestreams, and re-releasing some archival material onto YouTube. The page wasn't updated to reflect that until very recently because there might have been confusion as to whether or not those things counted.
That aside, how much work would updating the name of the pages entail? First, begin by moving all the actual H*R update pages to their new destination with the new title. There's only about twenty of those, right? Then maybe worry about updating "what links here" links on other pages? Can the Wiki call on The Cheatbot to get that done if it was told where to redirect everything? -- 68.37.43.131 21:58, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
Regardless of the substantiality of the updates, they're still Homestar Runner content. I think they count, hence why I'm making this suggestion. As for "daunting", I was mainly referring to changing links and redirects for twenty pages (and the act of renaming them, to a lesser extent). The Cheatbot would definitely help, but even without it, it should be pretty manageable. I'm mainly asking because of the importance of these pages. Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 21:47, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
I agree with this. "Homestar Runner updates" (or "Homestar Runner Updates", if we're committed to the Title Case thing) is a better name. The inaccuracy of the current title doesn't apply only to recent years; many older update pages also contain references to updates outside of homestarrunner dot com. Lira (talk) 09:03, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

[edit] Redirect Baleetion

These two requests have already been made on their respective talk pages and through the {{delete}} template, but not officially, so I thought I'd make note of them here. The Pinecones redirect needs to be deleted so Pine Cones can be moved there (see talk page), and It's Like It Was Meant To Be needs to be deleted so It's like it was meant to be can be moved there. (And while you're at it, there are around fifty other unnecessary redirects that can be deleted, but that's not as important since they aren't obstructing page movement.) Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 21:53, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

I deleted those two redirects and moved the pages. Note that the redirect for the second one actually had a lowercase "to": It's Like It Was Meant to Be. — It's dot com 23:48, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
Thanks a lot! And sorry about the miscapitalization! Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 01:25, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

[edit] Embedded Twitter Timeline: can it work?

It's been suggested that the main page redesign should include an embedded timeline of @StrongBadActual Tweets like the one on the index page or fanstuff wiki (as opposed to the {{recentposts}} template, which is largely devoid of context and must be manually updated). On some wikis this is possible through a widget or a MediaWiki extension. Would it be possible to implement this feature? Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 00:34, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Pretty much everything regarding the new main page has already been decided (the votes are all unanimous for now), so this is the last thing that still needs to be done. Unfortunately I can't fiddle with widgets or extensions, so if someone could let us know if it would be possible to embed a Twitter timeline on a wiki page, that would be greatly appreciated. Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 21:18, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

[edit] "General Disclaimer" legal link is broken

HRWiki:General disclaimer refers to "the legal stuff page on the official Homestar Runner website"; however, that links to https://homestarrunner.com/legal.html which is currently a 404. The old site version does not render properly, either. The best solution is probably https://old.homestarrunner.com/legal.txt instead; in any event this should probably be addressed as the disclaimer boilerplate appears constantly throughout the wiki. -- Bleu Ninja 17:44, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

Fixed to the link to the text file. — It's dot com 20:35, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

[edit] Fixes needed for "Book sources"

Special:BookSources has issues with three of its ISBN-search functions:

  • AddALL currently links to "http://www.addall.com/New/Partner.cgi?query=number&type=ISBN", the site structure has been adjusted so such links redirect to the main page. It should link to "https://www.addall.com/New/isbn-lookup.cgi?isbn=number"
  • PriceSCAN has not had a search or price-comparison function since April of 2011, making its inclusion here obsolete.
  • Barnes & Noble currently links to "http://search.barnesandnoble.com/bookSearch/isbnInquiry.asp?isbn=number", the site structure has been adjusted so such links redirect to the main page. It should link to "https://www.barnesandnoble.com/s/number"
  • Amazon.com still functions as expected.

I don't think this is particularly high priority as this functionality isn't used much, but wanted to raise the issue. -- Bleu Ninja 00:16, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://hrwiki.org/wiki/HRWiki:Da_Basement"
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